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  1. #721

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    I am excited to start sharing our plans for the future of the Reincarnation system!
    Glin, we follow your musings on twitter, and I've had respect for you when you go to computer shows and represent Turbine.

    When you post a thread like this, yet don't even come back to fix errors in your own OP, how does that make us feel YOU and the Turbine team is actually READING THIS or even have the knowledge such a thread of ideas and reactions exist?

    There have been massive errors in judgment this year, and the look of this site, and failure to make adjustments after many many regulars have admitted they are not contributing any longer, or have flat out left the game is unacceptable.

    Your team has decimated the community here and it's affecting a lot of folks in game. Morale is at an all time low. This year is making 2008/2009 seem like a joyride.

    Is it asking that much... to spend 15 minutes a week to respond yourself to your own PoA?


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  2. #722
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    On the other hand: Deleteing ED XP on Heroic TR gives a weird "incentive" to never ever TR again.

    Guess which "incentive" is stronger?
    Exactly. They can't see the forest for the trees. I really hope they don't push this "New Coke" on us and realize there are more factors here than what they've originally thought.



    1. Turbine proposes a change in functionality for heroic TR

    2. Response is overwhelmingly negative

    3. Turbine reiterates that the heroic TR ED wipe will be pushed through

    Pushing through a change that is 99.9% negative (whether you feel it's for the good of the game or not) is NEVER a good thing to do. You feel that players will adjust to the new changes. You're correct. Many will "adjust" right into another game.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 06-14-2013 at 01:55 PM.
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  3. #723
    Community Member Hokiewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Slightly disagree . . . playing end game is a waste of time but now IS the time to get your TRs done. Get them done before this idiotic change is made.

    This way in case DDO survives this "Microsoft" level of stupidity you won't have to TR again ever.
    That's a fair point. I'm still sticking to the Enhancement pass as the DOOM benchmark though
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  4. #724
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    I don't think the solution is to give more benefits to TRing - that would mean it would slowly become mandatory to TR, no more or less optional as it is now. Mostly, anyway.

    The solution is to not make it take away your progress, instead.
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  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Hi. Thanks again for your feedback and opinions on the proposed design of the new Epic TR. Here are some of the things the team is currently thinking about.

    We understand your concern about losing Epic Destiny XP upon reincarnation and not getting enough in return. So, we are investigating some different possibilities in regard to what a character gets after they reincarnate with Epic TR. We’d like to offer a system where the character gets credit for every XP they “burn” from an epic destiny. One scenario for this is that Epic Destiny XP will be converted to heroic XP (using a formula that adjusts for the different rates at which heroic and epic XP are gained). This converted XP would then be used to level up your reincarnated character. This could mean, for example, that a character with a large number of destinies maxed out could immediately level back up to level 20 even as a third life character. Again, this is just an example of one of the things we are considering, but it’s a definite possibility.

    Also, to answer a couple of additional questions:

    1. With the current design, after this system goes live, going through a Heroic TR will burn non-bonded epic destiny XP, but the character will be compensated for the burned XP. In other words, Heroic TR will work just like Epic TR except it will be available at level 20 instead of level cap and it will not grant Epic past life feats. Allowing Heroic TR to preserve ED XP sort of short-circuits the system, providing a weird incentive to avoid epic level play. You should use Heroic TR if you’d like to reincarnate at level 20 and want the benefits that Heroic TR gives (build points, past life feat). Otherwise, you should consider continuing up to level cap and reincarnating from there where you will get all the benefits of Heroic TR plus the additional benefit of Epic TR (epic past life feats).

    2. Currently, store bought Fate Points will be preserved after reincarnation. This will not change. We are investigating ways to somehow preserve regular in-game earned Fate Points, but, behind the scenes, they are different than store bought ones, so it is not completely certain that we will be able to preserve them. If we cannot preserve them, we will look for ways to compensate a character for them.

    Stay tuned for more info and explanations of this new system proposal early next week.
    If I were designing the changes

    1) Heroic TR would stay exactly as it is today
    2) Epic TR would return a character to level 20, resetting the currently active Epic Destiny XP in return for the past life bonus associated with it, and leave all other Epic Destiny XP unchanged.
    3) Just drop the "Epic Advantage" XP kludge
    4) Epic Destinies are already "bonded", as per the promise when MotU was released last year. Rules were set out for TRing, which as far as I am concerned apply to all types of TRs
    5) Iconic TR? Sorry, don't have an opinion.

    Really, from the standpoint of game mechanics, it is pretty difficult to make a case for an alternate system. What I have described pretty much mirrors how past lives work for Heroic TRs. I wish I could pat myself on the back, but it is so obvious that I would feel guilty.

    Turbine is working pretty hard to craft a far more complicated system than would seem indicated. Given that excess complexity, one does have to ask what are the additional considerations which would lead to such contortions? Possibilities include

    1) Trying to level the playing field between new and veteran players, by resetting as much veteran player progress as you think you can get away with.

    2) Trying to generate additional grind, likely to offset declining revenue associated with a declining game population over the last year.

    Really, if the past year had taught Turbine anything, it would be that trying to be excessively clever in manipulating your customers really doesn't work that well from a business standpoint.

    If there are reasons why you need to design strange game mechanics to offset business realities, it might make sense to just come clean and be honest about what those realities are. The feasibility of that approach declines, however, as you continue to burn away the accumulated goodwill that your customers have for this game.

    I really don't expect Turbine to heed any of this advice. The past year has pretty much taught anyone who is paying attention how Turbine intends to do business.

    At this point, I no longer even look with trepidation towards what errors Turbine will make next. I fully expect that Turbine will completely blow up what remains of the game, through the pending enhancement pass and the bad design decisions detailed in this thread.

    If nothing else, the the potential for "popcorn reading" is enormous.

  6. #726
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    First off, since I haven't said it before... Thanks Glin and other Devs for coming out and talking about this while it's still in the planning stages rather than already coded. I have to assume that means you are willing to be swayed by player opinions. It's a big change from some earlier experiences and I just want to thank you for it.

    Now, my opinions:

    To preface, I've spent money on the game. A lot of it. Way more than I should have in fact. I've been a VIP for years, bought both collectors editions for expansions, and paid for way too many points bundles. I play a lot, but I'm not a power-gamer. I have over 30 characters in 3 accounts, about 10 of which I'd say get played on a weekly basis. I have characters that have TR'd with no ED farming and I have characters that have TR'd and have max destinies.

    Now, I don't need to go into why everyone hates the proposal to reset Epic Destiny XP. Let's just accept that that's fairly widely reviled for the simple reason that some of us have spent enough hours to equal days or weeks grinding out horribad destinies just to unlock Fate points. "Ooooh! Look at me! I'm a Barbarian leveling Magister! Isn't this fun?" I hope you will accept that the minority of us who have done this are probably also the largest proponents of the game. We are the ones that spend hours online playing and we are the ones that spend money ourselves as well as bringing friends into the game to spend their money. No, you don't *need* us. But I hope you will at least think about my statement as you read through the pages of vitriol around this announcement.

    Ok, my observations and proposal. I recognize that the basis of "True Reincarnation" has always been to "give up everything" to start over just a *little* bit more powerful. I accept this. Some others may not, but I at least recognize that's where this whole reincarnation thing began. I also suspect based on previous statements that no one at Turbine really thought that we, the players, would sit at the cocaine lever for hours and hours and HOURS at a time in order to level all of our Destinies in one life. I think that was short-sighted if true since it doesn't take much to recognize that avid gamers will *always* take the shortest path to the most power. Certainly the idea of resetting all EDs upon TR/eTR (with of course the idea of bonded EDs) fixes the Dev's original intent, but I hope you recognize that this particular ship set sail long ago. Whatever was intended is not where we are now. That leaves us with the problem of how to return TRs and EDs to what the Devs intended while pacifying the pitchfork carrying hordes *and* providing them/us a reason to keep playing when we know the axe is looming. I propose the following:

    1) Everything in Glin's original post goes forward (setting the plan back to where intended originally by Devs) with some modifications for those of us that have previously leveled EDs.
    2) Allow us to use our "free ranks" from EDs earned at the end rather than at the beginning of our TR. I can literally earn rank 2 just by completing the Grotto. There is no way that's equivalent to an ED level.
    3) Allow those of us who have ED farmed to "bond" one ED for every 10 levels of ED gained. It's a compromise. Essentially, we lose half our EDs to make you happy and you let us keep half our EDs to make us happy. As in every compromise, both parties should feel like they gave up something. I think this would be fair. It also allows room for those of us who would like to keep playing between now and Update 20 to keep earning EDs and know that the more we earn, the more we get to keep.
    4) Allow players to level an alternate ED, even if at a reduced XP gain, while in our primary.

    I hope a Dev takes the time to read my text wall... I really like the thought that at least some of what I said here will be considered.
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  7. #727
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    I'm just glad the only character I was using in epic destinies was my crit rage barb I already knew was getting destroyed. I feel for everyone else but experience has taught me over time that the people who work the hardest to get to the top or simply like the game the way it is are the people who get repeatedly hurt when the game changes. This one time I don't get to be the one seething in anger over a game that is supposed to be fun. I've played less and less as the game has changed more and more.

  8. #728
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Hi. Thanks again for your feedback and opinions on the proposed design of the new Epic TR. Here are some of the things the team is currently thinking about. *snip*
    Just my two coppers as a player who has not not maxed even one ED yet (I have them) and thus dosent have a pony in that other race:

    I like the proposed changes to the ED system. It sounds like a much more fleshed out and functional system than the original that will add variety to the game.
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  9. #729
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    After some thought I think they're wiping our xp to fix an exploit they don't know how to fix any other way. I'm starting to think that because of this we have no chance to change their minds.

    edit * no this is not about shears.

  10. #730
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Hi. Thanks again for your feedback and opinions on the proposed design of the new Epic TR. Here are some of the things the team is currently thinking about.

    We understand your concern about losing Epic Destiny XP upon reincarnation and not getting enough in return. So, we are investigating some different possibilities in regard to what a character gets after they reincarnate with Epic TR. We’d like to offer a system where the character gets credit for every XP they “burn” from an epic destiny. One scenario for this is that Epic Destiny XP will be converted to heroic XP (using a formula that adjusts for the different rates at which heroic and epic XP are gained). This converted XP would then be used to level up your reincarnated character. This could mean, for example, that a character with a large number of destinies maxed out could immediately level back up to level 20 even as a third life character. Again, this is just an example of one of the things we are considering, but it’s a definite possibility.

    Also, to answer a couple of additional questions:

    1. With the current design, after this system goes live, going through a Heroic TR will burn non-bonded epic destiny XP, but the character will be compensated for the burned XP. In other words, Heroic TR will work just like Epic TR except it will be available at level 20 instead of level cap and it will not grant Epic past life feats. Allowing Heroic TR to preserve ED XP sort of short-circuits the system, providing a weird incentive to avoid epic level play. You should use Heroic TR if you’d like to reincarnate at level 20 and want the benefits that Heroic TR gives (build points, past life feat). Otherwise, you should consider continuing up to level cap and reincarnating from there where you will get all the benefits of Heroic TR plus the additional benefit of Epic TR (epic past life feats).

    2. Currently, store bought Fate Points will be preserved after reincarnation. This will not change. We are investigating ways to somehow preserve regular in-game earned Fate Points, but, behind the scenes, they are different than store bought ones, so it is not completely certain that we will be able to preserve them. If we cannot preserve them, we will look for ways to compensate a character for them.

    Stay tuned for more info and explanations of this new system proposal early next week.
    Have you noticed no one want wants to lose all of this work? so far your idea will kill tring in general if not the game. You might want to think heavily about what you're going to do. do you not see the negative responses to this intended design? i will say this again had this been introduced when destinies came out no one would complain at all except heroic trs kinda get screwed.

    when you heroic tr it should not effect epic destinies at all. that system needs to stay untouched. only epic tring should reset anything as long as you grandfather all maxed eds when update 20 comes out. epic tr should start at 20 no other level. it defeats the purpose imo to make them start under. that is a ton of xp to get back.

  11. #731
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    . . . Allowing Heroic TR to preserve ED XP sort of short-circuits the system, providing a weird incentive to avoid epic level play.
    Again . . . why do you care other than ego if your customers do not want to play with your new shinies?

    You're end-game is a big bucket of fail. The heroic game is simply more fun . . . so instead of making your Epic game better your intentions is to defecate all over heroic?

    People avoiding epic is 100% your fault.

    - you've killed raiding. Only 2 raids are worth running, one is hated (CiTW) and the other was loved at first so you decided to all make it a big bucket of stupid with that BOOOM! nonsense. All other raids are a waste of time . . . and your new expansion doesn't even have one.

    - Loot acquisition much easier. BTCoE stuff from GH is better than most raid loot, throw in the shard exchange for P2Win goodness. Not to mention I have random drops that are better than Greensteal weapons. Also with a level-cap increase coming up and Feather's love of invalidating previously ground loot there's no point in bothering to find the new shinies now as they'll all be junk in two months anyway.

    - Epic Elite difficulty is just plain ********. I personally love playing it but I'm a psychotic over-geared power gamer who mostly plays self-healing melees. The saves makes any DC casters borderline useless so if that's the style of play you like why firggin bother?

    So in a nutshell the "casual" gamer can't do the challenging stuff and the power-gamer gets bored. TRing is what's left. it's still fun, the lower level content plays more like D&D and less like this Fraken-MMO you guys have patched together.


    TLRL: Make your end-game better if you want people to play it. People not playing it now is your fault for making it so lame.
    Last edited by Teh_Troll; 06-14-2013 at 02:01 PM. Reason: hard to spell while nerd-raging

  12. #732
    Community Member Hokiewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZgreentea View Post
    Just my two coppers as a player who has not not maxed even one ED yet (I have them) and thus dosent have a pony in that other race:

    I like the proposed changes to the ED system. It sounds like a much more fleshed out and functional system than the original that will add variety to the game.
    To who? I wager the majority of players will never touch this system in current form.

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  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Why do you make it sound as if somehow we are cheating by using the system that exists now?

    Do you not realize that what you are suggesting gives us not a weird, but a very sensible desire to avoid epic play now? Since anything we do in the epic levels now will get burned up whenever this goes live.

    In the current system when we tr we gain nothing from epic. We just keep what we've earned. We're not looking to game the system and somehow get something extra out of it without earning it.

    From my perspective, i'm not one of the people who spent countless hours grinding out destinies for fate points. I played epics for awhile, and gained some ed experience. Then i tr'd. Thinking that i had made some progress in epic destinies which i could pick up from where i left off when i got to 20 again.

    Now, i have no desire to play epics at all, since i do still plan to perform more heroic tr's on all my characters. Any time i spend in epics between now and the time this goes live will feel completely futile. I'm one of those players that needs to make progress to enjoy this, or any other role playing game. Since nothing i do in epics now will ultimately result in any form of progress for me, i have no desire to do them.

    I know i'm not alone in this thinking.
    You're not alone.

    I've similarly have been grinding and TRing my characters for much the same reason as you. I'm not someone that has capped all the EDs on any character. I have three characters with a single ED capped and several (if not all) of the other EDs with anywhere from one bubble to 5 tiers of XP. Plus I have a few other characters with a smattering of XP in the EDs. If I plan to TR any of the three characters in the future, it negates all progress for the last year in epics.

    If this is how the Devs are responding to our concerns, I really have no desire to continue playing the game. This isn't making some old items obsolete, as this seems like the view the Devs are taking. This isn't tickering with the power of a class or build. This is a total eradication of time and progress invested into the game.

    As someone else stated, I'd like to see everyone single person in Turbine sit down and grind a fresh character out from level 1 to cap and all the epic destinies and report back how long it took them. Seriously, because what you are asking is for players to practically repeat that process 11 times with a slight XP advantage each time.

  14. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZgreentea View Post
    Just my two coppers as a player who has not not maxed even one ED yet (I have them) and thus dosent have a pony in that other race:

    I like the proposed changes to the ED system. It sounds like a much more fleshed out and functional system than the original that will add variety to the game.
    And I know that I've been one of the strongest voices here against everything but it bears saying this:
    I think that I and most of the people strongly against this actually agree with you.

    The only problem is that it wasn't in place to begin with and because of that they have people that it will take a ton more than an 'epic advantage' to compensate.
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  15. #735
    Community Member Theolin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Hi. Thanks again for your feedback and opinions on the proposed design of the new Epic TR. Here are some of the things the team is currently thinking about.

    We understand your concern about losing Epic Destiny XP upon reincarnation and not getting enough in return. So, we are investigating some different possibilities in regard to what a character gets after they reincarnate with Epic TR. We’d like to offer a system where the character gets credit for every XP they “burn” from an epic destiny. One scenario for this is that Epic Destiny XP will be converted to heroic XP (using a formula that adjusts for the different rates at which heroic and epic XP are gained). This converted XP would then be used to level up your reincarnated character. This could mean, for example, that a character with a large number of destinies maxed out could immediately level back up to level 20 even as a third life character. Again, this is just an example of one of the things we are considering, but it’s a definite possibility.

    Also, to answer a couple of additional questions:

    1. With the current design, after this system goes live, going through a Heroic TR will burn non-bonded epic destiny XP, but the character will be compensated for the burned XP. In other words, Heroic TR will work just like Epic TR except it will be available at level 20 instead of level cap and it will not grant Epic past life feats. Allowing Heroic TR to preserve ED XP sort of short-circuits the system, providing a weird incentive to avoid epic level play. You should use Heroic TR if you’d like to reincarnate at level 20 and want the benefits that Heroic TR gives (build points, past life feat). Otherwise, you should consider continuing up to level cap and reincarnating from there where you will get all the benefits of Heroic TR plus the additional benefit of Epic TR (epic past life feats).

    2. Currently, store bought Fate Points will be preserved after reincarnation. This will not change. We are investigating ways to somehow preserve regular in-game earned Fate Points, but, behind the scenes, they are different than store bought ones, so it is not completely certain that we will be able to preserve them. If we cannot preserve them, we will look for ways to compensate a character for them.

    Stay tuned for more info and explanations of this new system proposal early next week.
    So you are saying
    The grinding of my EDs over the last 20 lives was a waste of time .....
    So you do not want me to TR any toon again ..... because they all have some EDs ground out & I would loose that ......

    I think this is the first time I am going to say bad idea .... but this one is it ......

    BAD IDEA ... do not take my XP away from me

    Now to leave you with one thought ....
    There is a reason they stopped the XP penalty upon death

  16. #736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Hi. Thanks again for your feedback and opinions on the proposed design of the new Epic TR. Here are some of the things the team is currently thinking about.

    We understand your concern about losing Epic Destiny XP upon reincarnation and not getting enough in return. So, we are investigating some different possibilities in regard to what a character gets after they reincarnate with Epic TR. We’d like to offer a system where the character gets credit for every XP they “burn” from an epic destiny. One scenario for this is that Epic Destiny XP will be converted to heroic XP (using a formula that adjusts for the different rates at which heroic and epic XP are gained). This converted XP would then be used to level up your reincarnated character. This could mean, for example, that a character with a large number of destinies maxed out could immediately level back up to level 20 even as a third life character. Again, this is just an example of one of the things we are considering, but it’s a definite possibility.

    Also, to answer a couple of additional questions:

    1. With the current design, after this system goes live, going through a Heroic TR will burn non-bonded epic destiny XP, but the character will be compensated for the burned XP. In other words, Heroic TR will work just like Epic TR except it will be available at level 20 instead of level cap and it will not grant Epic past life feats. Allowing Heroic TR to preserve ED XP sort of short-circuits the system, providing a weird incentive to avoid epic level play. You should use Heroic TR if you’d like to reincarnate at level 20 and want the benefits that Heroic TR gives (build points, past life feat). Otherwise, you should consider continuing up to level cap and reincarnating from there where you will get all the benefits of Heroic TR plus the additional benefit of Epic TR (epic past life feats).

    2. Currently, store bought Fate Points will be preserved after reincarnation. This will not change. We are investigating ways to somehow preserve regular in-game earned Fate Points, but, behind the scenes, they are different than store bought ones, so it is not completely certain that we will be able to preserve them. If we cannot preserve them, we will look for ways to compensate a character for them.

    Stay tuned for more info and explanations of this new system proposal early next week.
    There is absolutely nothing you could possibly implement to make losing all my hard earned ED's okay for me. Nothing. I started leveling the ED's with the expectation that when I TR, I get to keep the progress I have made with them. I absolutely do not want to lose all the work I put into them just to start with nothing at level 20 again. That is ridiculous. If this is implemented, I will never TR any character ever again, and if I do TR them, I won't bother leveling any ED's at all (and the only reason I would bother TRing at that point is if I messed up a character and need to fix them, in which case, I wouldn't waste time leveling any EDs I would lose anyway). This should be an option for those who WANT to give up their ED's for the extra Heroic xp, not forced on those who don't want it.

    As for preserving ED's on Heroic TR creating an incentive to avoid epic play, that is ludicrous. There are plenty of people who currently play all epic content, despite being able to TR at level 20 if they want to. If you take away the ability to keep ED's after Heroic TR, you'll just be creating an incentive for people to stop TRing because they don't want to lose all that work. I can promise you that I will never TR again if I level all ED's up on a character; that character will remain at level cap indefinitely because I refuse to grind all of that out again. There is no benefit you could possibly give me that would change my mind.

    Admittedly, I don't like having to start at level 1 when I TR either, but trading 50 levels of ED's to get back to level 20 is not a fair trade by far. ED's give your character power; I've already had to start with nothing and I don't want to start with nothing a second time after getting to 20 again. Keeping my ED's would allow me to better enjoy the content without having to worry about grinding again. I wanted to TR my ranger, experience the new enhancements and then get back to 20 and actually enjoy being in Shiradi Champion for the entire ride instead of having to grind everything out again. That isn't fair. After grinding all the ED's out to get all my Fate Points and ready myself to be able to have fun in Shiradi for the entirety of my Epic play, I then find out you want to take that all away from me and leave me with a perpetual grind that never ends, should I ever choose to TR again. I will literally never get a chance to enjoy my chosen main ED because I'll be too busy grinding all the others out the whole time, which only gives me more incentive to never TR at all.

    Do you see what's happening here? This will kill the TR system, not make it better. Please don't force me to give up my ED's to TR because if I am forced into that kind of decision, I will opt out of TRing altogether and I don't think I am alone in that decision.

  17. #737
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Hi. Thanks again for your feedback and opinions on the proposed design of the new Epic TR. Here are some of the things the team is currently thinking about.

    We understand your concern about losing Epic Destiny XP upon reincarnation and not getting enough in return. So, we are investigating some different possibilities in regard to what a character gets after they reincarnate with Epic TR. We’d like to offer a system where the character gets credit for every XP they “burn” from an epic destiny. One scenario for this is that Epic Destiny XP will be converted to heroic XP (using a formula that adjusts for the different rates at which heroic and epic XP are gained). This converted XP would then be used to level up your reincarnated character. This could mean, for example, that a character with a large number of destinies maxed out could immediately level back up to level 20 even as a third life character. Again, this is just an example of one of the things we are considering, but it’s a definite possibility.

    Also, to answer a couple of additional questions:

    1. With the current design, after this system goes live, going through a Heroic TR will burn non-bonded epic destiny XP, but the character will be compensated for the burned XP. In other words, Heroic TR will work just like Epic TR except it will be available at level 20 instead of level cap and it will not grant Epic past life feats. Allowing Heroic TR to preserve ED XP sort of short-circuits the system, providing a weird incentive to avoid epic level play. You should use Heroic TR if you’d like to reincarnate at level 20 and want the benefits that Heroic TR gives (build points, past life feat). Otherwise, you should consider continuing up to level cap and reincarnating from there where you will get all the benefits of Heroic TR plus the additional benefit of Epic TR (epic past life feats).

    2. Currently, store bought Fate Points will be preserved after reincarnation. This will not change. We are investigating ways to somehow preserve regular in-game earned Fate Points, but, behind the scenes, they are different than store bought ones, so it is not completely certain that we will be able to preserve them. If we cannot preserve them, we will look for ways to compensate a character for them.

    Stay tuned for more info and explanations of this new system proposal early next week.
    I get where you are coming from and I agree, you need to trade something to get something when you TR.

    But 2 things:

    1) Like has been said numerous times... leave Heroic TR alone. If you want people to play epic levels, make epic content (including a Raid or two), don't try and shoe horn people into things.

    2) Grandfather in people who already have destinies unlocked. At first I feared things would be over powered, but on second thought I doubt there are that many players out there with multiple characters with max destinies (personally I only know people who have 1 character like that) Let us keep our current (max) destinies and then let the grind for nice past lives feats begin. It will also give us something to do while we wait for your pitiful "expansion" to come about, but if I'm going to lose my ED's, then why the heck should I play epic levels?

    Without considering these two things you will drive away even your most loyal customers and defenders (such as me). I don't want to grind destinies now, why the heck would I want to do it EACH LIFE.
    Magical Rings are well... magical. - Gandalf

  18. #738
    Community Member blackdae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fourrumtest View Post

    any heroic tr that wipes my epic xp, is unacceptable. i wont do it, and i wont stick around after you make it happen.

    any epic tr that wipes my heroic xp is unacceptable. i wont do it, and i wont stick around after you make it happen.
    ^^ This

  19. #739
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentinnel View Post
    Dano you are spot on!!
    Devs - Keep it simple stupid or if you prefer to feel more wise you can go with a multitude of the smart and wise:

    “Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.”
    - Confucius

    “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.”
    - Leonardo da Vinci

    “Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, simplify.”
    - Henry David Thoreau

    “Or, rather, let us be more simple and less vain.”
    - Jean-Jacques Rousseau

    “Any darn fool can make something complex; it takes a genius to make something simple.”
    - Pete Seeger

    “Life is indeed terribly complicated—to a man who has lost his principles.”
    - G.K. Chesterton

    Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise.
    - 1 Corinthians 3:18 (NIV)

    “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.”?*
    - Albert Einstein

    “A child of five could understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.”
    - Groucho Marx
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  20. #740
    Community Member magn0liafan's Avatar
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    Default Ah! Feedback!

    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Hi. Thanks again for your feedback and opinions on the proposed design of the new Epic TR. Here are some of the things the team is currently thinking about.

    We understand your concern about losing Epic Destiny XP upon reincarnation and not getting enough in return. So, we are investigating some different possibilities in regard to what a character gets after they reincarnate with Epic TR. We’d like to offer a system where the character gets credit for every XP they “burn” from an epic destiny. One scenario for this is that Epic Destiny XP will be converted to heroic XP (using a formula that adjusts for the different rates at which heroic and epic XP are gained). This converted XP would then be used to level up your reincarnated character. This could mean, for example, that a character with a large number of destinies maxed out could immediately level back up to level 20 even as a third life character. Again, this is just an example of one of the things we are considering, but it’s a definite possibility.
    So far, not *as* horrid as the original proposal, but if it's resetting primarily "epic" things, then characters should indeed be able to start at "epic" content, with additional compensation. Also, if they've unlocked a tree, the tree should stay unlocked.

    Also, to answer a couple of additional questions:

    1. With the current design, after this system goes live, going through a Heroic TR will burn non-bonded epic destiny XP, but the character will be compensated for the burned XP. In other words, Heroic TR will work just like Epic TR except it will be available at level 20 instead of level cap and it will not grant Epic past life feats. Allowing Heroic TR to preserve ED XP sort of short-circuits the system, providing a weird incentive to avoid epic level play. You should use Heroic TR if you’d like to reincarnate at level 20 and want the benefits that Heroic TR gives (build points, past life feat). Otherwise, you should consider continuing up to level cap and reincarnating from there where you will get all the benefits of Heroic TR plus the additional benefit of Epic TR (epic past life feats).
    In this case, those who are using Epic True Reincarnation should also gain past life feats and other benefits of Heroic True Reincarnation, in addition to the benefits of Epic True Reincarnation.

    2. Currently, store bought Fate Points will be preserved after reincarnation. This will not change. We are investigating ways to somehow preserve regular in-game earned Fate Points, but, behind the scenes, they are different than store bought ones, so it is not completely certain that we will be able to preserve them. If we cannot preserve them, we will look for ways to compensate a character for them.
    Better than nothing, I suppose.

    Stay tuned for more info and explanations of this new system proposal early next week.
    Rest assured, we will.
    "F*** Jay and Silent Bob, f*** them up their stupid a**es."
    "Who the f*** said that s***?"
    "A guy who calls himself 'Magnolia Fan'."

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