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  1. #601
    Founder THAC0's Avatar
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    Hmm... not too sure about this... I just got 5 chars back to 20+...and not looking forward to another round of TRs.

    How about you guys do an update that is just bug fixes? Then worry about introducing enhancements, TR revamps or whatever else is on your white board of ideas over at Turbine.

    Just say'n...

    T.

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheylostmyID View Post
    One concern, other than the obvious loss of ED XP, is for people who spent real $ on Keys of Fate to unlock other destinies. Will these be wasted when you EDTR?
    If they only sold a handful of these then I suspect they will be wasted. The better alternative would be to refund the TP that people paid for them as a one-time deal and add a disclaimer that in future they will be lost when you Epic TR.

    Tomes of Fate, you would still retain the extra Fate Points just like any other Tomes, so can't see that being a problem.

  3. #603
    Community Member Uidolon's Avatar
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    doesnt matter if epic TR removes EDs its like when tomes didnt carry over with TR its just a matter of time before its changed just wait it out.

  4. #604

    Default I like this approach

    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    Yip that's how I'm reading it.

    Just those two points in the section about Epic Destiny TRing.

    If that's not the intention and Iconic TRing is completely different from Epic TRing then, Houston, we have a major problem.

    It would mean that having already done 40 lives, I will now have to do another 11 just to lock in my ED XP, but gaining absolutely no benefit apart from Epic Completionist because I've already maxed out my Past Life Feats. And then have the opportunity to do another 12 Iconic Lives?

    Nah, can't be how it's intended.

    Or are we saying that Iconic TRing is different completely from Epic TRing and it won't actually affect your ED XP in any way whatsover. So all I have to do is just go from 25 to 28, then when this becomes an option, just Iconic TR and start as a level 20 Iconic (level 15 + 55 ranks each time) and get back up to 28?

    Which do you think is most likely? Given the alternatives, the only one that makes sense to me is that you can Epic TR into an Iconic, and if you Epic TR as an Iconic you gain the Iconic Past Life Feat and the ED Past Life Feat, in the same way that others would gain the Class Past Life Feat and the ED Past Life Feat.

    Lets call it the Goldilocks principle: One is unthinkable, the other is too easy, but one of them is just right.
    Ok, if that is so, I am a lot more comfortable with the whole thing.

    Fawngate has her 40 lives, I want her to do Iconics, if I get Epic Destiny Past life as well, that is a bonus.

    If my Epic Destiny Xp is going to blown up, well some heroic for it is a bonus.
    I am however very concerned about others regarding this matter.

    If we can retain our unlocking of epic destinies and gain additional fate points, that would be nice.
    I would hope our fate point counter will pile up, epic destiny levels earned / 3 = fate points.

    If we can have an extra new twist slot as we gain Epic Destiny Binding, that would be sweet.
    Say one new twist slot for every ??? Epic Destinies Bound.

    I would be ok with keeping the twist cap at tier 4, if we get more twist slots every so often.



    ;;;;;;;




    So maybe something like this:

    Anytime you Epic TR, a dialog opens up.
    "Which capped Epic Destiny would you like to bind
    and gain the past life for?"

    At that point you choose which Destiny you wish.
    This prevents people accidently being in the wrong destiny.
    This epic destiny applies to epic advantage and its xp
    is reset to zero.

    Also anytime you use any kind of TR, another dialog opens up.
    "Would you like to use Epic Advantage?"

    You can reply yes or no.

    If the answer if no, then you keep all your epic destiny xp
    except an epic destiny that is capped and will be bound during this TR.

    If the answer is yes, then you can mark one by one,
    each unbound epic destiny you would like to convert to heroic xp.
    {The reason one would want to do this is to farm more
    fate points in an enjoyable destiny.}

    If you heroic TR, everything else remains the same.

    Iconic TRing allows you to TR into an Iconic Class without
    binding any Epic Destinies.

    If you are Epic TRing then you receive either a class past life
    or an iconic past life depending on what your current character is.

    With epic TRing your new life starts at level 1 as heroic class or level 15 as iconic class.
    You are granted bonus xp for any epic advantage applied. This xp
    is hard capped and you must take it before earning more xp.

    When you reach epic levels and gain a level in any epic destiny
    whether it has been reset or not this level is added to your fate counter:
    epic destiny levels gained / 3 = fate points

    Heroic Class Completionist becomes an auto grant feat at level one.
    It is the same as the normal Completionist feat.

    Iconic Completionist becomise an auto grant feat at level one.
    It grants you a bonus feat?

    Epic Completionist becomes an auto grant feat at level twenty.
    It grants you an extra twist slot and X fate points.

    For every four Epic Destinies bound you receive an extra twist slot.
    Twist remain capped at level four.

    Any destiny that was previously unlocked remains unlock for the next life,
    regardless of ED XP resets.
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 06-13-2013 at 08:49 PM.

  5. #605
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I think EDs should reset for an ETR, but maybe as another poster suggested, you get to lock in an additional ED per ETR.
    That is basically how the proposed system would work. Every time you ETR you would choose one destiny to gain an EDPL in and permanently bond. All levels in unbonded destinies would be lost. The only time one wouldn't get a new bonded destiny on a ETR would be if they either already had them all bonded or chose to gain a second EDPL feat in a destiny instead of bonding another. So, 11 ETRs and all current destinies can be locked in.

    I think most of the doom we are seeing is more related to the really bad system we got last year and the betrayal being felt by those of us that actually used it. It's akin to being told if we remove 5000 tons of manure from a field with a teaspoon we would be able to forever after play there and then being told they changed their minds after we are done. Or to put it into DDO terms, a new improved TR system that removes all former past lives when it's used...but you get to start one rank higher on your next life for every past life you lose as compensation.
    Last edited by Gremmlynn; 06-13-2013 at 08:27 PM.

  6. #606
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    Default Alternative?

    I'll start by saying that I have only reached page 12 in reading, so far. It seems this thread may be growing faster than I can read. lol

    My first thought upon reading the OP was why not give those who have already maxed two or more ED's the PL's to go with them when the change goes live?

    Or, since it is a TR thing, grant an ED PL and bonding for as many maxed ED's a toon has for each Heroic PL that toon has upon going live.

    However you do it, devs, it would be nice if you didn't take everyone's maxed ED's upon TR without appropriate recompense.

    Please?
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  7. #607
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    I have to say that I find the epic destiny TR option to be incredibly unappealing.

    True Reincarnation is indeed simply another thing to grind for many people, accruing past lives. But many don't do it just for the past life, they do it because they don't like their current build, they want to change their race, or their class, or something like this. They reincarnate, they play through the game gaining completely new experience as a different character, and when they get to 20-25 they are at the exact same power level they were when they TRed. The TR system was a system for new experiences, that could be ground out by people looking to squeek out every last possibly benefit for a character, if they so desired, while at the same time getting to try out new builds and have new experiences.

    Epic destiny TR on the other hand is nothing but a grind fest. There is no "new adventure" there. It is nothing like the concept for the heroic TR. You gain a past life feat, but you don't gain a new experience. Nothing about your character changes. And in the process you give up a MASSIVE amount of epic destiny experience if you have all of your epic destinies maxed out, as the sort of people willing to grind for more passive benefits likely would.

    You're shooting yourself in the foot here Turbine. This system provides nothing new for the casual player, and sacrifices too much past grinding for the power gamer. As a former power gamer, now somewhere in the middle, I can't see myself participating in it at all.
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  8. #608
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    With the inflation of adding 8 more levels, and epic destinies, the idea of a TR seems silly to me now.

    It seems that any TR below level 28, wiping out ALL your ED progress is just flat out silly.

    If you haven't bought EDs, then nothing changes, who cares. If you have bought EDs, you lose them all, and still get the bonus as if you didn't touch them. Seems like a bad idea...all round.

    If you were to just rest ED independent of other XP, then sure give some token feat that is about as **** poor as the current system. I'd do that! Because its easier to re-grind an ED then it is to get 20 again, and the bonus should be in line with what you lost/gain. The current bonus isn't worth a TR. But EDs are easier, and may be worth a bonus along those lines.

  9. #609

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheylostmyID View Post
    One concern, other than the obvious loss of ED XP, is for people who spent real $ on Keys of Fate to unlock other destinies. Will these be wasted when you EDTR?
    Unlocking of epic destinies should definitely be preserved after any TR.

  10. #610
    Community Member Demsac's Avatar
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    I didn't read the whole thread cause it's huge and didn't see dev comment about this. If it's been answer please link!


    If the epic destiny gives the same feat as the heroic does that mean they do not stack pass the 3rd and would it give access to completionist?

    Grants a Class Past Life Feat (same as Heroic TR)

    Also, would our current lives be able to qualify for epic destiny TR?

  11. #611

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demsac View Post
    If the epic destiny gives the same feat as the heroic does that mean they do not stack pass the 3rd and would it give access to completionist?

    Grants a Class Past Life Feat (same as Heroic TR)
    That part is poorly written.
    It has been decided by us little people that they mean, you gain whatever past life
    you deserver for your current life along with an Epic Past life.
    Also, would our current lives be able to qualify for epic destiny TR?
    We hope so.

    There is a serious flaw with all TRing eliminating all Epic Destinies xp.
    It is possible that is a duck hunt smoke screen, and the Devs intend to concede
    on that point immediately to pass the rest thru. Or it is possible they just
    thought it was a good idea, but no one here likes it.




    Here is an example of what I would like to see:


    So maybe something like this:

    Anytime you Epic TR, a dialog opens up.
    "Which capped Epic Destiny would you like to bind
    and gain the past life for?"

    At that point you choose which Destiny you wish.
    This prevents people accidently being in the wrong destiny.
    This epic destiny applies to epic advantage and its xp
    is reset to zero.

    Also anytime you use any kind of TR, another dialog opens up.
    "Would you like to use Epic Advantage?"

    You can reply yes or no.

    If the answer if no, then you keep all your epic destiny xp
    except an epic destiny that is capped and will be bound during this TR.

    If the answer is yes, then you can mark one by one,
    each unbound epic destiny you would like to convert to heroic xp.
    {The reason one would want to do this is to farm more
    fate points in an enjoyable destiny.}

    If you heroic TR, everything else remains the same.

    Iconic TRing allows you to TR into an Iconic Class without
    binding any Epic Destinies.

    If you are Epic TRing then you receive either a class past life
    or an iconic past life depending on what your current character is.

    With epic TRing your new life starts at level 1 as heroic class or level 15 as iconic class.
    You are granted bonus xp for any epic advantage applied. This xp
    is hard capped and you must take it before earning more xp.

    When you reach epic levels and gain a level in any epic destiny
    whether it has been reset or not this level is added to your fate counter:
    epic destiny levels gained / 3 = fate points

    Heroic Class Completionist becomes an auto grant feat at level one.
    It is the same as the normal Completionist feat.

    Iconic Completionist becomise an auto grant feat at level one.
    It grants you a bonus feat?

    Epic Completionist becomes an auto grant feat at level twenty.
    It grants you an extra twist slot and X fate points.

    For every four Epic Destinies bound you receive an extra twist slot.
    Twist remain capped at level four.

    Any destiny that was previously unlocked remains unlock for the next life,
    regardless of ED XP resets.

  12. #612
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    First, we were assured by Turbine that we could safely get all the Epic Destinies we wanted because they would not be lost with a True Resurrection.

    Second, many people purchased items with money in the DDO store in order to help them get the Destinies they wanted.

    It's really underhanded to tell people they won't lose something and sell them items to help them gain it and then turn around and take it away anyway.

    Finally, anyone who doesn't like the idea of losing their Epic Destinies with TR logically has to stop working on Epic Destinies RIGHT NOW or decide that they will never TR that character.

    Even if Turbine comes back with a statement that they decided not to go forward with the idea of losing ED on TR why would anyone believe them? Turbine assured us once already that it wouldn't happen and yet they gave us this.

    Also: who thought that trading a ED rank for a Heroic level 1- rank was somehow equitable? I mean even casual players can get through the first few levels in a few hours (say one game session). As a casual player it took me more than one game session to get one ED rank.

  13. #613

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    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    First, we were assured by Turbine that we could safely get all the Epic Destinies we wanted because they would not be lost with a True Resurrection.

    Second, many people purchased items with money in the DDO store in order to help them get the Destinies they wanted.

    It's really underhanded to tell people they won't lose something and sell them items to help them gain it and then turn around and take it away anyway.
    I agree.
    DM rule number one is don't take candy away from players.
    I learned that the hard way long ago with marvel super heroes RPG
    Finally, anyone who doesn't like the idea of losing their Epic Destinies with TR logically has to stop working on Epic Destinies RIGHT NOW or decide that they will never TR that character.
    Brought up in party chat today.
    Its not often the forums are discussed in game as much as today was.
    Even if Turbine comes back with a statement that they decided not to go forward with the idea of losing ED on TR why would anyone believe them? Turbine assured us once already that it wouldn't happen and yet they gave us this.
    I'm hoping its a duck hunt and the devs were not serious about it, or that they wanted imput on the subject. I recall once Madfloyd offered to reduce the xp between 18 and 20 for
    legend lives if Heroic TR cap was set to 25. We told him no thank you and that was the end of that.
    Also: who thought that trading a ED rank for a Heroic level 1- rank was somehow equitable? I mean even casual players can get through the first few levels in a few hours (say one game session). As a casual player it took me more than one game session to get one ED rank.
    I agree, if Epic Advantage become voluntary as seen below, how much heroic xp should we get from an ed rank?



    After reading thru much of this lengthy thread proposing maybe something like this:

    Anytime you Epic TR, a dialog opens up.
    "Which capped Epic Destiny would you like to bind
    and gain the past life for?"

    At that point you choose which Destiny you wish.
    This prevents people accidently being in the wrong destiny.
    This epic destiny applies to epic advantage and its xp
    is reset to zero.

    Also anytime you use any kind of TR, another dialog opens up.
    "Would you like to use Epic Advantage?"

    You can reply yes or no.

    If the answer if no, then you keep all your epic destiny xp
    except an epic destiny that is capped and will be bound during this TR.

    If the answer is yes, then you can mark one by one,
    each unbound epic destiny you would like to convert to heroic xp.
    {The reason one would want to do this is to farm more
    fate points in an enjoyable destiny.}

    If you heroic TR, everything else remains the same.

    Iconic TRing allows you to TR into an Iconic Class without
    binding any Epic Destinies.

    If you are Epic TRing then you receive either a class past life
    or an iconic past life depending on what your current character is.

    With epic TRing your new life starts at level 1 as heroic class or level 15 as iconic class.
    You are granted bonus xp for any epic advantage applied. This xp
    is hard capped and you must take it before earning more xp.

    When you reach epic levels and gain a level in any epic destiny
    whether it has been reset or not this level is added to your fate counter:
    epic destiny levels gained / 3 = fate points

    Heroic Class Completionist becomes an auto grant feat at level one.
    It is the same as the normal Completionist feat.

    Iconic Completionist becomise an auto grant feat at level one.
    It grants you a bonus feat?

    Epic Completionist becomes an auto grant feat at level twenty.
    It grants you an extra twist slot and X fate points.

    For every four Epic Destinies bound you receive an extra twist slot.
    Twist remain capped at level four.

    Any destiny that was previously unlocked remains unlock for the next life,
    regardless of ED XP resets.

  14. #614
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    For what it's worth I logged in to voice my opinion on the matter of Heroic TR and destiny-wide XP wipe.

    I can live with wail not working over a couple updates and patches. I can live with goofy explanations for why XP pots in the DDO store are "redundant" and need removed. I can live with, frequently even embrace, periodic changes to game systems like two weapon fighting, armor class, spell power, enhancements...

    But if you wipe all my epic destiny xp, destiny levels and fate points upon Heroic TR, then I don't foresee ever TRing again. If I am not going to TR again, then I suspect this game will rapidly become dead to me. There is no xp adjustment or past life structure I can fathom you introducing that will make it more attractive to throw away the last year's worth of effort and time investment put into the game. I am not outright rejecting the choice to Epic TR with destiny XP loss. I am specifically rejecting any combination of Heroic TR with destiny XP loss. As a matter of principle, everything I heard from you guys on destiny XP has been positioned as permanent through (heroic) TR.

    I recognize others may find this attractive. That is fine, I do not argue they are mistaken. For me and the way I enjoy the game, it is a show stopper. Tally one opinion in that column and do what you think is best for the game, if it ends up being the proposed system I wont fault you for it. But I cannot imagine any circumstance where I'd be willing to throw that effort away and reinvest time in a game whose producer thinks it is acceptable to reverse course on prior commitments regarding the permanence of something like destiny XP. And you evidently could decide to throw it all away again when you bump level cap up to 32. You simply do not have enough genuinely different content post 20 to make it interesting (to me) to level destinies through several lives again in the same way the road from 1-20 can be fun on different builds. You aren't going to anytime soon.

    If I misunderstood the OP and Heroic TR will not be connected with any destiny xp loss, then nevermind.

    PS - Please fix Wail.

  15. #615

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    Quote Originally Posted by hirmor View Post
    So we have a new debate on our hands... And I have a suggestion.

    For those whom have not read hours of posting on the forum, let me simplify:

    Turbine is proposing (and it will likely be implemented as is or not too differently) that upon EPIC TRing, at level 28 (which will be quite a few million xp more) a player would lose all ED xp/level save for one (1) ED per TR'ing (each additional TR'ing allowing a player to add another "saved" ED), in exchange for Heroics ranks (ie starting next live higher and higher every EPIC TR).

    My opinion... This post is not about my opinion! It is about ALL of the players that have maxed out all ED's under the current system... And it is also about all the other players that have simply done more than maxing one (1) ED... Under the current proposal, they would ALL lose all but one (1) ED upon EPIC TR'ing.

    For those who like numbers, eleven (11) maxed out ED is 21,780,000 xp. That's 18,780,000 above the level 25 cap, which is the natural xp cap atm.

    How to re-conciliate the two? Turbine's proposal and 18,780,000 ED xp loss?!?

    Well, what of an xp credit of some sort?

    A bit like the xp granted to ICONICS (ie the system to grant "free xp" has been in existence since Turbine introduced Veteran status)... Grant ALL players, upon their first EPIC TR, a one-time xp credit equal to the amount of EPIC xp they have accumulated above 3,000,000!

    For some, this might allow them to reach lvl 10, or 18 or even maybe level 25... Some may have enough xp for hit level 28 (unless it requires a gazillion xp to reach... who knows lol).

    What concrete examples?

    Joe Blow, the first liver half-orc barbarian, has reached level 25 (3,000,000 xp)... he also earned, doing ED other than Fury of the Wild, 6,000,000 xp.

    Joe Blow purchases Shadowfell expansion and early September 2013 finally reaches level 28, after earning 3,600,000 additional EPIC xp.

    Joe Blow decides to reincarnate using the EPIC TR system, and not the Heroic TR system... He selects Fury of the Wild has his EPIC ED for TR purpose (thus earning a Fury of the Wild TR feat as proposed by Turbine)...

    Upon completing his TR, Joe Blow appears on the skyship... With a credit of 6,000,000xp from his "lost ED's"...

    So what does that translate into? 3,139,250 will level Joe Blow to Heroic level 20 (second life)... and then he will have enough to reach level 24 Epic, a little short of level 25...

    That's it for Joe Blow!!!

    BUT what of Uberfred the Warforged Sorcerer who has maxed out ALL ED's? Does he get a 18,780,000 xp credit? If so, what does this translate into? Let's do the math for Uberfred. Assume he is also a first lifer.

    First EPIC TR... Level 20? 3,139,250xp... Level 25? Another 3,000,000... Now comes the good part... Level 28? Using Turbine progression curve for 20-25, level 26 will likely require 1,050,000xp, level 27 1,200,000xp and 1,350,000xp... So Uberfred will have used 9,739,250 to reach level 28... AND that's based on the assumption that Turbine will not apply an increase to exp requirements for level 20 to 28 for second and third lifers... which they may very do. If they do, Uberfred might just have enough to get a free ride to level 28 ONCE, and nothing else.

    If Turbine does not curve up level 20-28 xp requirements, Uberfred will have 9,040,750xp left... And Uberfred can do a second EPIC TR.

    Second EPIC TR... Level 20? 4,378,500xp (third life)... Level 25? Another 3,000,000 (assuming no increase in xp requirements for 20-28)... Uberfred has 1,662,250xp left... Enough to reach level 26 and half way to level 27... Again assuming no xp requirements increase by Turbine. Even with no xp requirements increase, no way can Uberfred get more than one (1) EPIC TR from all the xp accumulated maxing out ALL existing ED's in the game.

    CONCLUSION: A system like this one would result most likely, since Turbine is likely to increase xp requirements for levels 20 to 28 for TR'ed players, in a single "free" reincarnation (ie they would thus have two "saved" ED's and two EPIC feats) for players that maxed out ALL ED's. For many other players, those who may have maxed a few more ED's, it might result in a good boost toward a second EPIC TR... nothing more. NOT game breaking, and yet a fair acknowledgment of the "accumulated xp" that players would lose under Turbine's proposal.

    Anyway this is just an idea but I wanted to share it. I love this game. Since Beta. And would hate to see die due to players quitting because they feel cheated. I hope my suggestion, or any other suggestion, can hope solve this "necessary" transition to a bigger and, hopefully, better game.
    Very interesting thoughts there.

  16. #616

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    Quote Originally Posted by hit_fido View Post
    For what it's worth I logged in to voice my opinion on the matter of Heroic TR and destiny-wide XP wipe.

    I can live with wail not working over a couple updates and patches. I can live with goofy explanations for why XP pots in the DDO store are "redundant" and need removed. I can live with, frequently even embrace, periodic changes to game systems like two weapon fighting, armor class, spell power, enhancements...
    Nods understandingly...

    But if you wipe all my epic destiny xp, destiny levels and fate points upon Heroic TR, then I don't foresee ever TRing again. If I am not going to TR again, then I suspect this game will rapidly become dead to me. There is no xp adjustment or past life structure I can fathom you introducing that will make it more attractive to throw away the last year's worth of effort and time investment put into the game. I am not outright rejecting the choice to Epic TR with destiny XP loss. I am specifically rejecting any combination of Heroic TR with destiny XP loss. As a matter of principle, everything I heard from you guys on destiny XP has been positioned as permanent through (heroic) TR.
    Nods sadly...

    I recognize others may find this attractive. That is fine, I do not argue they are mistaken.
    A very few want the option to blow up their epic destiny xp (which exactly what epic disadvantage does) simply to be able to grind/farm more fate points. All of these few acknowledge that this is totally unfair to others.
    For me and the way I enjoy the game, it is a show stopper.
    Nods solemnly and tries to look wise...
    Tally one opinion in that column and do what you think is best for the game, if it ends up being the proposed system I wont fault you for it. But I cannot imagine any circumstance where I'd be willing to throw that effort away and reinvest time in a game whose producer thinks it is acceptable to reverse course on prior commitments regarding the permanence of something like destiny XP.
    Shudders and wonders...
    And you evidently could decide to throw it all away again when you bump level cap up to 32. You simply do not have enough genuinely different content post 20 to make it interesting (to me) to level destinies through several lives again in the same way the road from 1-20 can be fun on different builds. You aren't going to anytime soon.
    Pauses to wonder what will happen at level cap 32?
    If I misunderstood the OP and Heroic TR will not be connected with any destiny xp loss, then nevermind.

    PS - Please fix Wail.
    You did not misunderstand.
    Everyone I talked to is shocked and upset about this.



    After reading thru much of this lengthy thread proposing maybe something like this:

    Anytime you Epic TR, a dialog opens up.
    "Which capped Epic Destiny would you like to bind
    and gain the past life for?"

    At that point you choose which Destiny you wish.
    This prevents people accidently being in the wrong destiny.
    This epic destiny applies to epic advantage and its xp
    is reset to zero.

    Also anytime you use any kind of TR, another dialog opens up.
    "Would you like to use Epic Advantage?"

    You can reply yes or no.

    If the answer if no, then you keep all your epic destiny xp
    except an epic destiny that is capped and will be bound during this TR.

    If the answer is yes, then you can mark one by one,
    each unbound epic destiny you would like to convert to heroic xp.
    {The reason one would want to do this is to farm more
    fate points in an enjoyable destiny.}

    If you heroic TR, everything else remains the same.

    Iconic TRing allows you to TR into an Iconic Class without
    binding any Epic Destinies.

    If you are Epic TRing then you receive either a class past life
    or an iconic past life depending on what your current character is.

    With epic TRing your new life starts at level 1 as heroic class or level 15 as iconic class.
    You are granted bonus xp for any epic advantage applied. This xp
    is hard capped and you must take it before earning more xp.

    When you reach epic levels and gain a level in any epic destiny
    whether it has been reset or not this level is added to your fate counter:
    epic destiny levels gained / 3 = fate points

    Heroic Class Completionist becomes an auto grant feat at level one.
    It is the same as the normal Completionist feat.

    Iconic Completionist becomise an auto grant feat at level one.
    It grants you a bonus feat?

    Epic Completionist becomes an auto grant feat at level twenty.
    It grants you an extra twist slot and X fate points.

    For every four Epic Destinies bound you receive an extra twist slot.
    Twist remain capped at level four.

    Any destiny that was previously unlocked remains unlock for the next life,
    regardless of ED XP resets.

  17. #617

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Turbine can I get my money back for my purchase of the expansion? I am willing to return any gifts in the standard package which I purchased. I talked myself into purchasing the $30.00 expansion what I can say. I like many others am really disappointed in the decision that all the epic destiny previously earned will disappear upon a true reincarnation except for one destiny. I worked hard to earn all of that xp. This decision negatively affects nearly every one of my guildies and friends in game.

    I think there should be an option that I and others out there who have purchased the expansion can return our purchase and get our money back. I find the decision to sell the expansion 3 weeks prior to this epic destiny xp announcement disinguous on Turbine's part. I am serious about this and not renewing my subscription.

    Thanks,

    A Customer
    Nods in great sympathy.

    I think I'll keep mine Owl Bear cause I love pets, but I understand your feelings in this matter.

  18. #618

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    /tinfoil hat on

    Making two unpopular changes at the same time, to split opposition to them and possibly to gain sympathy when you dial a little back on one of them.

    /tinfoil hat off

    /tinfoil hat off

    /tinfoil hat OFF

    Meh, I think I'm bugged.
    Decoy Duck to hunt here?
    Alpha pass to tight on purpose?

    Hmm...maybe that is their game...its all a bit over my head.

  19. #619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Is there really even a debate? All I saw was a thread on what they plan to do with the epic TR system, and a metric ton of "aww heel naaaw" style feedback similar to madstone boots debacle.
    The famous Chai speaks on the subject.

  20. #620

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnez View Post
    This was my thought too- My wife and I look to play the game, we are NOT interested in getting Completionist (or playing classes that we don't want to play just to get other Past Lives).
    Epic Destinies (as they are currently) offer some semblance of usefulness without grinding out 15 lives of classes we are not good at.
    I think the closer this gets, we'll just TR prior to implementation (in order to get some characters to 36 pt) and then just park our mains at cap.
    Nods in great sympathy at being painted into a corner.




    After reading thru much of this lengthy thread proposing maybe something like this:

    Anytime you Epic TR, a dialog opens up.
    "Which capped Epic Destiny would you like to bind
    and gain the past life for?"

    At that point you choose which Destiny you wish.
    This prevents people accidently being in the wrong destiny.
    This epic destiny applies to epic advantage and its xp
    is reset to zero.

    Also anytime you use any kind of TR, another dialog opens up.
    "Would you like to use Epic Advantage?"

    You can reply yes or no.

    If the answer if no, then you keep all your epic destiny xp
    except an epic destiny that is capped and will be bound during this TR.

    If the answer is yes, then you can mark one by one,
    each unbound epic destiny you would like to convert to heroic xp.
    {The reason one would want to do this is to farm more
    fate points in an enjoyable destiny.}

    If you heroic TR, everything else remains the same.

    Iconic TRing allows you to TR into an Iconic Class without
    binding any Epic Destinies.

    If you are Epic TRing then you receive either a class past life
    or an iconic past life depending on what your current character is.

    With epic TRing your new life starts at level 1 as heroic class or level 15 as iconic class.
    You are granted bonus xp for any epic advantage applied. This xp
    is hard capped and you must take it before earning more xp.

    When you reach epic levels and gain a level in any epic destiny
    whether it has been reset or not this level is added to your fate counter:
    epic destiny levels gained / 3 = fate points

    Heroic Class Completionist becomes an auto grant feat at level one.
    It is the same as the normal Completionist feat.

    Iconic Completionist becomise an auto grant feat at level one.
    It grants you a bonus feat?

    Epic Completionist becomes an auto grant feat at level twenty.
    It grants you an extra twist slot and X fate points.

    For every four Epic Destinies bound you receive an extra twist slot.
    Twist remain capped at level four.

    Any destiny that was previously unlocked remains unlock for the next life,
    regardless of ED XP resets.

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