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  1. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    So I'm officially quitting...I'm quitting Turbine's game. I'm quitting as a paying customer. I'll see you all in-game while I'm playing my game. I'll be the relaxed gimp in decent gear having fun on Turbine's dime.
    Welcome to the darkside .

  2. #582
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opensezame View Post
    From what I can see, the majority of you posting in this thread want the best of everything for the least work put in. I agree there needs to be a few changes to these proposals, but did you really think epic TR'ing was going to be easy???...
    You actually seem to miss the point. ANY TR, even heroic will invalidate ALL your ED. I could care less if this would be only about epic TR, but it isn't. Also where exactly is the challenge in finishing quests like Rusted Blades a gazillion of times? And yes, I came from the EU servers as well, but I don't understand your point in telling what we had or hadn't there over here. It is irrelevant to the point of loosing the ED on a heroic TR for no substantial reward. Actually with the changes it even get easier, as one could just skip the first levels with the epic advantage. Just for several players this just ain't a real advantage compared to the tradeoff.
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  3. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fnordian View Post
    I'm 100% in favor of this change to Lesser Reincarnation and really hope it's implemented!

    Most of the new additions and other changes sound good too, except for losing all accumulated ED XP which would make it undesirable in most instances to ever TR except where no EDs have been gained yet (i.e., almost immediately upon reaching level 20, with no previous EDs).

    Given that the ED system, from the beginning, kept ED XP intact if a character chose to TR, any change that resets ED XP to 0 (even in exchange for other bonuses) really should be optional, and will almost certainly result in a greatly diminished number of TRs, which in turn will almost certainly result in a decline in active players. The proposed bonus to Heroic ranks, while an interesting idea, doesn't sound like a fair or worthwhile trade for losing all ED XP.

    Perhaps some compromise could be reached, such as an option to trade in a single chosen ED for a past life ED feat with the Epic TR. Even then, the past life feat would need to be quite exceptional to be worth giving up an already-earned ED. I imagine some sort of bonus to that ED (if re-acquired) or other EDs that increases their power or utility would make sense.
    This is a very thoughtful and reasoned response.

    My opinion is more along the lines of the first response in this thread, that is, the idea as proposed of ripping people off from their epic XP sucks. I simply wont participate in the grindfest, so you wont be getting any store item sales from me.

  4. #584
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    Default Fate Point update?

    I see they are still neglecting to update us on Fate Points.

    Still waiting on that info. It may serve to help your cause in cooling tempers. That's at least something everyone whose played by your rules could keep out of this cheap move.

    Still silly the only communication we've gotten to our responses is "We are still developing, stop being so angry"

    It's hard when you shove lines like "How will this effect ((or CHANGE)) your play style?" into your announcement. You guys basically come right out the door saying "Hey, this is WHAT YOU GET", adding a line or two at the end about how you want feedback doesn't improve the impression you give us, when you have the track record of treating our feedback like that of a movie review, as knowledgeable opinions. Guess what? We're not getting paid to critic your game, we PAY YOU to get the chance to play and maybe a word in on how we want the game to change. If we find the reviews negative too long, we just leave.

    And you are shocked people are angry?

    And you still choose to keep silent on info that has been specifically asked for? And should have REASONABLY already been given on an announcement such as this? Turbine, YOU are the ones who are overtly harsh to your players with messages like this.

    And by continuing to skirt past issues and hoping the smarter among us wont ask questions or catch on. Think that is paranoid thinking? Well gee, try answering the questions/concerns then. Instead of chiding us for our tone, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for it. Realize the reaction is negative, painfully negative.

    Again, your fault. Fix it, answer, communicate. I'd like to think you are soaking it all in and making plans to respond to our concerns...but so far, pretty lame responses to the tide of feedback.

    Oh, and sorry if my posts are pretty much negative spew. MANY MANY others have made WONDERFUL SUGGESTIONS and given very reasonable back up for why their ideas are positive. So much work they have put in their ideas, I couldn't possibly add on them. However, I can help voice my dissatisfaction with how Turbine treats/talks to these people.

    Turbine still has made it unclear they care, and has a track record of ignoring such brilliant ideas brought about by passionate players who only want to help the game.

  5. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellxpeth View Post
    1. I hate the original post and I agree that it does need some tweaking before it goes live.
    More than that IMO.

    2. I nearly have all of my ED's maxed on my main toon. I will continue to gain ED XP simply because I enjoy playing that toon. If the new system takes away that XP...I promise people, life will go on. Stop complaining...just stop....its silly.
    It's called feedback in the hopes that we improve our options when it comes to:
    3. If you dont agree with the way the new system is ultimately implemented, you have 3 choices:

    a. Deal with it, and continue to play because you enjoy the game and friends you have in game.
    b. Don't TR...if you like where your toon is...by all means leave it there...it is really that simple.
    c. Stop playing, no one is forcing you to play...if you are unhappy...stop...again it is that simple.

    Think of it this way...read any (and I mean any)of the potential game changing threads and you will see messages similar to what you read here....epic fail, stupid, etc...hello??? You are still here which means that time and time again you have picked option "A" above.

    Turbine will ultimately do hat they think is best (even if some of us don't agree) so get over it and stop moaning about a "potential" change that is not completely laid out yet.

    Now all of the above stated, I have a 36 point build with nearly all ED's close to or maxed out....I will continue grinding, I will TR to have a 38 point build, I will continue the grind on whatever level I need to. If you don't like what ultimately happens when it actually does happen, move along....it is exactly that simple!!!
    After having already run through the whole "grind out worthless destinies for fate points" gauntlet they gave us a year ago, I'm really not in the mood to be told that was total waste of time (rather than just a huge waste of time). If it had at least been fun to do, I would at least have that to console me, but it wasn't. It was something to get past so as to never have to worry about it again, except now we do.

    What next, a new TR system that rolls back all past lives? A new enhancement system that rolls back all characters? When are we supposed to tell them that stupid ideas are stupid?

  6. #586
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Getting fate points just isn't enough for me to have to regrind all of that XP out over the course of a few months. We need to work out a way to keep the XP earned or trade it in for 1 time Heroic PL's


    Edit: ED XP for Heroic PL? 1 time only
    Last edited by Atremus; 06-13-2013 at 06:03 PM.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  7. #587
    Community Member TorkRaider's Avatar
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    Angry Server rollback?

    Honestly that’s what this sounds like. Rollback all ED’s (millions of XP) to the summer of 2012 but don’t refund any TP (or cash) spent by players. “Hey they won’t care ;-)”I spent months and close to $1,000 on VIP, expansion packs and TP for my family and you’re contemplating wiping this money and a year’s worth of playing out for what grand purpose? You get everything and we get nothing?My main took 18 months to get to 20 the first life and six months to TR back to 20 the second time, and then spent 7-8 months getting maxed in most ED’s. This says nothing about time spend playing Epic levels with family. Now we have to do it again?If this was the plan you should have announced it before selling MOTU.Just plain disgusted that you would even suggest this.

  8. #588
    Community Member THOTHdha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    We’ll be reading discussion in this thread and will continue to post here with more details as we go (such as details regarding Fate Points, Completionist, and the exact effects of turning in your Epic Destiny xp on your new life).
    It seems like most of the nerd rage going on here is due to the assumption that the 'Epic Advantage' ranks will be applied right away when you TR, completing the first several levels of your new life before you even begin much the way that Veteran Status does. However, the last bit of this quote seems to throw that into question. I think that some of these details need to come posthaste before the forum rioting turns into people actively unfollowing Turbine. I know that I only heard about this because of Producer Glin's tweet, since aside from the Enhancement Alpha DDO hasn't been able to hold my interest since shortly after MotU. Still hoping that Turbine will turn things around.

  9. #589
    Community Member Arnez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I have to read this like 4 more times . . . but did these guys actually find a way to make the ED grind in DDO worse?
    Actually- it looks like DDO is pulling a Microsoft. Makes me wonder which D&D MMO is Sony....

  10. #590
    Community Member Feithlin's Avatar
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    As many have already stated, I'm strongly against reseting ED xp for heroic TR. The whole system was pretty much horrible in terms of grinding, and an adjustment wouldn't cut it for me. I have not even finished for main char, and I'm playing a lot less my secondary chars and have not touched my chars on my secondary server because of this.

    Heroic TR should stay the same as it is. You're welcome to change the PL feats, but NOT reset ED xp.

    For Epic TR, it's different. It's a new bonus, and it's acceptable if it requires us to decide if we prefer to ignore those bonuses and start over the grind.

    I really don't think changing TR is a high priority. The enhancement pass will already give a lot of work, because it's predictable it will come live with a lot of bugs. Before adding new features, maybe you should stabilize the basis of the game (feats, enhancements, ED). IMO, TR modification should be delayed at least after all the PrE are implemented...
    Thelanis: Nassim* (F12/P6/M2) - Talienor** (P18/Ra2) - Feithlin** (F12/Bd7/C1) - Stoneoak* (F12/M6/P2) - Hokusai (M17/F2/C1) - Ardence* (Bd15/F3/Ro2) - Matsushiro* (Ro11/M6/P3) | Argonessen: Luneargent (W18/Ro2) - Talienor (Ro20) - Takshir (Bd16/F2/Ro2) - Hiacynthe (C20) | Ghallanda: A bunch of pre DDO Unlimited characters (field of testing for post U19 )

  11. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by oopsagain View Post
    This is a privately owned discussion board. Therefore "Freedom of speech" should never even be brought into the conversation, period.
    If that's the case, what exactly gets discussed on privately owned discussion boards put up to discuss free speech issues?

    I think what you meant to say is that Turbine is not obligated to respect anyone's public right to free speech. But unless it's against forum rules, it wouldn't seem out of line to discuss it.

  12. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Just to address people's passionate comments and opinions here: Keep in mind that this information is being presented to you far in advance of its implementation, and there's plenty of room to re-work the proposal in a variety of ways.
    Cordovan and developers,

    As you can see, this shift from what the players have learned to work with has caused some consternation. Some are willing to roll with the punches and others are not. The larger fear is that this will, if it has not already, will turn some of the die-hard players away to other mmo's.

    I believe I understand what your goal is, to help new players not feel so far behind. The approach seems that it would have that effect. Unfortunately it will do so by alienating your dedicated player base who has spent hours getting to the top.

    I would like to see the cap raised on a regularly; I know that it is no accident that there are now characters that start at level 15, since some new players will jump at that to get a head start, but what quality will these players be, having no experience making mistakes that your old timers have made at the very same low levels that were skipped.

    In my humble opinion, I think I would like to see the development focusing their time on depth of quest at all levels, rather than balancing out old vs. new players. More playable races, more quest in different areas of Eberon, roll out Psionics. Maybe make some complete worlds that would appeal to players of other MMO's to draw them in. Just because you have the best piece of DnD cake, don't mean you can't take someone else’s too!

    Psionics all by themselves would unleash new monsters and difficulties to deal with them. Open up poison and disease penalties; make them painful so we will have more dimensions to consider. Remove the ability to perma rage and jump cast. There are many avenues to peruse.

    Gonna wrap it up, with this, you have a great game and good gamers that are for the most part friendly. Having played a few other MMO's that nothing to sneeze at.

    thanks,

    -paint

  13. #593
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    Default dire... just dire

    dire. dire. dire. grind out the destinies AGAIN?! seriously?!

    DDO is becoming the most AWFUL kind of grind now. this new grind is simply too much. I would consider quitting after 6 years in game. don't they realise that increasing the grind is going to make people simply stop playing and find something more interesting.

    terrible. simply terrible.

  14. #594
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    **chuckles**

    I see that you guys just put up a double bonus point sale. I think you're off by a week on that timing. You've probably lost about 80% of what you would have gotten from that until these questions are answered to everyone's satisfaction.
    Tajawuka 20 Bladeforged Paladin running divine ETR's (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's, 3 martial epl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  15. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frupup View Post
    dire. dire. dire. grind out the destinies AGAIN?! seriously?!

    DDO is becoming the most AWFUL kind of grind now. this new grind is simply too much. I would consider quitting after 6 years in game. don't they realise that increasing the grind is going to make people simply stop playing and find something more interesting.

    terrible. simply terrible.

    You have no idea what the grind will be. These are very early ideas being thrown at us for some constructive feedback.

    Turbine finally gives us some transparency and insight into their plans in hopes of getting OUR feedback and everyone acts like this is going live tomorrow.
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  16. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opensezame View Post
    "Life 12 - 20 Morninglord/8 Epic, Exalted Angel ED -> ....... oops, can't Epic TR again because we've not more unbonded ED's"

    And there you have your epic completionist
    Uhuh, we got that bit already

    But are you are suggesting that this is part of the intended design? That it's intentional that you won't be able to obtain 3x past lives on all of the 4 iconic classes (never mind any future additions)?

    You might want to rethink that

    We're not asking for an Iconic Completionist Feat here, we're simply talking about the basic ability to take all of the possible Iconic Past Lives if we decide that's something we want to do.

    I'm 99.999% sure that this is what they intended, but the way it's been described this wouldn't be possible. So it should be a very, very straight forward thing to clarify I'm not asking anyone to put their nuts in a vice here, just clarify a few simple points. The complex stuff we can worry about another day

  17. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    This is absolutely correct. Also, Teh_Troll's previous post wherein he speculates that if heroic TR does not impact epic destiny experience that people will calm down is also true for nearly 100% of the people here. I know it is for me. Leave me the option to leave my destiny experience in tact *and still* be able to TR back to level 1 on occasion and I will be happy to continue playing, continue paying, and continue enjoying the characters I have invested so much time and effort into.

    Let me choose when and if my epic destiny experience gets wiped. That is all I ask. Then, the people who want to participate in the new system can do so. I may even eventually want to participate, but let me choose when or if I do. The same as you did with the new augment system. You didn't take away my hard-won augments from before the new system. Why would you take away my hard-won destiny progress?
    This I agree with. For me it will mean that those characters that have significant destinies levels will likely never ETR, while for those that don't it will likely be the standard. One destiny/life with level 23+ being done in a completed and compatible destiny actually sounds fun. Gaining twists with more lives is a bonus.

  18. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    I fail to see why Epic TRing is associated with Iconics here?

    Did I miss something?

    Hmm...



    Hmm...I don't see where Epic TRing lands you if you are in an iconic race?

    Are we going to be allowed to combine Iconic TRing Epic TRing all on the same life?

    Cause that would be sweet to get an Iconic and a ED past feat all at the same time?

    Yip that's how I'm reading it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    A few goals for Epic Destiny TR:

    • Include Iconics in the TR cycle (with Iconic Past Life Feats)
    • Allow you to TR into and out of Iconics (if you own Iconics)


    Just those two points in the section about Epic Destiny TRing.

    If that's not the intention and Iconic TRing is completely different from Epic TRing then, Houston, we have a major problem.

    It would mean that having already done 40 lives, I will now have to do another 11 just to lock in my ED XP, but gaining absolutely no benefit apart from Epic Completionist because I've already maxed out my Past Life Feats. And then have the opportunity to do another 12 Iconic Lives?

    Nah, can't be how it's intended.

    Or are we saying that Iconic TRing is different completely from Epic TRing and it won't actually affect your ED XP in any way whatsover. So all I have to do is just go from 25 to 28, then when this becomes an option, just Iconic TR and start as a level 20 Iconic (level 15 + 55 ranks each time) and get back up to 28?

    Which do you think is most likely? Given the alternatives, the only one that makes sense to me is that you can Epic TR into an Iconic, and if you Epic TR as an Iconic you gain the Iconic Past Life Feat and the ED Past Life Feat, in the same way that others would gain the Class Past Life Feat and the ED Past Life Feat.

    Lets call it the Goldilocks principle: One is unthinkable, the other is too easy, but one of them is just right.

  19. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    ETR grants the Epic PL and Class PL (just like heroic)...

    Since one of the design goals is to "Introduce Iconics into the TR cycle", I read that as the Iconic PL will be treated the same as a Class PL... (Thus, everyone's about to lose completionist until they do 4 more lives, which are basically another Pally, Rogue, Cleric, and Fighter life... but hey, don't fuss about that, cuz they might Take Away All Destiny XP! My friends in game development call this "a duck"... something glaringly wrong that you know is going to illicit feedback so the questionable thing you want in there slides through.)
    Iconics aren't traditional classes and won't affect the Completionist Feat. We might end up with some sort of Iconic Completionist Feat in the future to add to our Completionist and Epic Completionist, but I don't see this as something we need to worry about right now.

  20. #600
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    agree all other changes look good. reducing grind on tr lives is groovy. Would be happy if you just took iq cannith(this one especially-elite runs really are just not worth the pitiful xp output here) and amaranth and made the xp they give out 3 times as good. would solve alot of the problem.

    But removing destiny xp upon tr is just plain stupid. Not sure what you guys are thinking here. That is really out of touch with your player base to even suggest such a lame idea. DO NOT DO THIS> this would be death to this game!!!!

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