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  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcaneArcher52689 View Post
    5+ months is pretty far in advanced for any mmo. (November for U20, which they did not commit to, could be later)

    And they said they were PLANNING on trying to implement it later this year. It's not a for real thing until it's and update on lammania.

    So, maybe you should get your facts straight too.

    I'm not a fan of Heroic TR resetting ED XP, and I've posted my feedback and possible solutions, but i also don't expect them to completely rework their ideas in a day. Instead, I now wait, and if i haven't seen any proposed changes to the system by this time next week, I'll post my thoughts again, in general or suggestions/ideas.
    Sorry, but I disagree. Five months for something that is going to take the amount of work, code, and testing to even get close to working correctly is not a very long time at all. If you were going to tell me that 5 months is pretty far in advance for something like an update to a web application, I would agree. However, the frequency and recurrence of bugs in their product indicates some pretty good spaghetti code on their end.

  2. #502
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn View Post
    Sounds similar (with a twist) to what many people (myself included) have already posted.

    This is more the line of thinking that seems to make sense to most players. At least the ones that are posting in the thread.
    Assuming ED XP is NOT reset with heroic TR (this is a line in the sand that we cannot concede) what I think would work for Epic TR is being allowed to keep your Fate points and keep the abilities of a "bonded" ED active while leveling up other EDs. Kinda like what we were able to do with Shears but without the other bugs.

    All previously un-locked Spheres need to remain unlocked, that way you can earn back your low-hanging fruit twists in a non-painful manner.

    That would be acceptable to me, and probably a lot of fun.

    I also am disappointed that a 4th twist isn't available. A 2/1/1/1 set of twists would be possible and nice for those who currently have max fate-points.

  3. #503

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    This.

    If we can keep all our fate points, AND they get rid of the ED map (where you have to have 3-4 ranks in an useless destiny to unlock a destiny you do want), then I might be for this.

    This is a chance to fix the ED system... I don't mind losing all the grind I've already done if I can keep the fate points, and my twist slots and can level in any ED I want. Because then I can just relevel the 3-5 EDs I'm interested in (and have fun playing while doing it) instead of wasting time getting magister ranks on my fighter to unlock twists...

    If we have to re-grind the fate points again, wasting time AGAIN in EDs that suck for our character, then I agree the proposed system is terrible.
    Agreed.
    More fate points is good.
    More twists is good.
    Not having to reunlock my map is good.
    For this you can take my ed xp if you allow everyone the choice to keep theirs if they want.


    Epic TRing granting a class past life feat is and going back to level 1 is awful for me.
    I don't want to do it for an Epic Destiny Past Life.
    Fawngate has all the past life feats already.

  4. #504

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I also am disappointed that a 4th twist isn't available. A 2/1/1/1 set of twists would be possible and nice for those who currently have max fate-points.
    Indeed, twists are a wildly popular part of the game, expand upon them please.

  5. #505

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    .. but it costs 3 million instead of 1.9 million......
    Higher ed xp costs for a "legend" ed?
    No thank you.

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Just to address people's passionate comments and opinions here: Keep in mind that this information is being presented to you far in advance of its implementation, and there's plenty of room to re-work the proposal in a variety of ways.
    What would be helpful is to gather the concensus from the now 26 pages of replies - ignore completely all the plebs who just post that Turbine as a company hate their players, hate the game, etc etc - and come back with confirmation after an internal meeting to clarify just a few things:
    (1) That Heroic TRing will not affect ED XP in any way
    (2) That Epic TRing is designed to be an optional path for players and that future content will not be scaled on the assumption of Epic Destiny Past Lives
    (3) That there will be further discussions on what the Epic Advantage will be for players who already have their ED's capped, and that some one-time-only-boon is being considered
    (4) That you will be free to Epic TR any time that you are at level cap (level 28) whether or not you have an unbonded destiny available, but you will only gain an ED Past Life Feat and have your ED XP reset, if you have an unbonded destiny active *
    (5) That the Heroic XP curve will not be affected
    (6) That Heroic XP for individual quests will be revised to provide additional viable levelling paths
    (7) That the ED XP curve will not be affected
    (8) That the Epic XP curve is being reduced, and provide specific details of the new proposal (with the caveat that it is subject to change)

    I think that this would address the majority of the concerns.

    * The reason for this is that you can only Epic TR into an Iconic, and with 3 Past Life Feats on 4 Iconics, that means 12 Iconic Past Life Feats, when you only have 11 Epic Destinies. Which would present a problem as follows:
    Life 1 - 20 Wizard/8 Epic, Magister ED -> Epic TR
    Life 2 - 20 Sorcerer/8 Epic, Draconic ED -> Epic TR
    Life 3 - 20 Bladeforged/8 Epic, Fatesinger ED -> Epic TR
    Life 4 - 20 Bladeforged/8 Epic, Shadowdancer ED -> Epic TR
    Life 5 - 20 Bladeforged/8 Epic, Legendary Dreadnought ED -> Epic TR
    Life 6 - 20 Purple Dragon Knight/8 Epic, Shiradi ED -> Epic TR
    Life 7 - 20 Purple Dragon Knight/8 Epic, Fury of the Wild ED -> Epic TR
    Life 8 - 20 Purple Dragon Knight/8 Epic, Primal Avatar ED -> Epic TR
    Life 9 - 20 Shadar-Kai/8 Epic, Grandmaster of Flowers ED -> Epic TR
    Life 10 - 20 Shadar-Kai/8 Epic, Unyielding Sentinel ED -> Epic TR
    Life 11 - 20 Shadar-Kai/8 Epic, Exalted Angel ED -> Epic TR
    Life 12 - 20 Morninglord/8 Epic, Exalted Angel ED -> ....... oops, can't Epic TR again because we've not more unbonded ED's

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Keep in mind that this information is being presented to you far in advance of its implementation, and there's plenty of room to re-work the proposal in a variety of ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    I am excited to start sharing our plans for the future of the Reincarnation system! Later this year (targeting Update 20) we look forward to introducing two new TR destinations, Epic Destiny True Reincarnation and Iconic True Reincarnation.
    So 5 & 1/2 months or less is "far in advance." Good to know, because we seem to hate this idea even more than what your doing to the enhancements. How well you rework those (enhancements) in response to player concerns and feedback should be an excellent litmus test for what kind of reworking this new TR system is likely to receive.

    Are you stomping on our foot (TR system) so we'll forget the pain in our hand (enhancements)?
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  8. #508

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    back the game

    oh in party chat:

    wats the deal with epic destiny TR? we waste our time lvling them all up or what

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Wonders which vendors sell pitchforks?

    http://ddowiki.com/index.php?search=...ecial%3ASearch

    Wander off to search the DDO store for Pitchforks...

    That would be the Mathom Society vendor.

    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Item%3APitchfork

    The Hobbits have that market cornered.
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  10. #510
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    So, some more questions:

    Iconics will have their own past life feats. Are these absolute "If you are an iconic you end up with the Iconic past life feat?". Presently, you can "accept training" on the bladeforged path and get the XP but don't need to autolevel. If I make a bladeforged, get 2 levels of paladin, and take 13 sorc after, will I end up with bladeforged paladin PL, or Sorc (per the code that determines PL attainment. It's my dominant class)? If Sorc, with 5 bonded destinies, isn't that instant completionist? Just takes a stack of tokens or lots of TP to buy a heart, and every 3 days you can make another Iconic class you never play and get to completionist. Quite the Epic Advantage.

    To epic TR you need level 28 and an unbonded past life. So no stacking Destiny past lives because you can't rebond an already bonded destiny.

    "Readjusting the curve" doesn't indicate if you plan on adjusting the start and end points of the arc or just the slope.

    Epic Advantage isn't an advantage if you're not already a completionist. Last year, our open to all, friendly, Korthos-Army-ish guild flat out refused to take level 16 characters on guild raids because people were stoning characters they didn't know how to play. Making that the way of life and calling it an "advantage" really isn't. Since all EDs are proposed to transfer into ranks, who says the ranks need to be contiguous (except for ease of coding)? What if the advantage translated into something like being granted Rank 1, 6, 11, 16, 21 instead of Ranks 1-5?

    Presently, My Completionist-to-be is paired up with my Girlfriend. I have more time to play than she does, and so what has been status-quo is that at epic levels I still get to play around, get some destiny xp, enjoy my character, and it doesn't impact us playing together at epic levels. Now, the next time we TR I'm going to be very far ahead of her. This advantage destroys my duo. It's already bad enough that she's VIP and I'm not so she gains at a faster rate.

    I agree with the sentiment that's been rebutted to Piloto. The spirit of reincarnating has been giving up the current to apply to the next. The proposed ETR is giving up everything-but-the-current to apply to the next.

    Repetition penalties still need to go on a ransack timer :P


    I'm a little worried about the design trend lately... Otto's stones, Epic Advantage, and so forth. It's like you're designing ways for us not to play your game instead of trying to design ways to make the game more fun and engaging. We already joke that you don't PLAY your game (just look at proposed Bard and Cleric enhancement pass), but we're beginning to think you don't even LIKE it. "What would make this game better? Another way not to have to play it."

  11. #511
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    back the game

    oh in party chat:

    wats the deal with epic destiny TR? we waste our time lvling them all up or what
    We had the same conversation last night.

  12. #512
    Community Member Lord_Asmodeus's Avatar
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    I am a Completionist with all Epic Destanies maxed, I plan on going Triple Heroic Completionist. As such the xp loss will not hurt me as much as the others. Please Turbine listen to the community.


    1. Please let us keep our twist of fate points when we do any Tr. Granted it will hurt to lose all my capped epic destany xp, eventually I will get it back. This would lessen the pain.

    2.If we have unlocked a destany, let it remain unlocked, even IF we still lose the xp.

    3.I bought the +2 fate point tome, if they are lost do I get my TP back?

    4.If we buy the pre-order on the expainsion- and own the Iconics- let us when we Tr into an Iconic get the equipment that they would get if they were a new iconic, or just make the iconic equipment be BTA not BTC.

    5.It would also be nice to have the completionist feat and epic completionist feat granted like a class feat instead of bought, once you meet the prereqs for them.

    Overall I do like the changes, they just need some adjustments.
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  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Agreed.
    More fate points is good.
    More twists is good.
    Not having to reunlock my map is good.
    For this you can take my ed xp if you allow everyone the choice to keep theirs if they want.


    Epic TRing granting a class past life feat is and going back to level 1 is awful for me.
    I don't want to do it for an Epic Destiny Past Life.
    Fawngate has all the past life feats already.
    Isn't that really like asking them to take away all of the Epic Destiny XP, but still allow you the benefits from the Epic Destiny XP that you previously gained? So you keep your Fate Points and your entire map remains unlocked?

    If it's a generic addition that anyone can at any time cap all of their Destinies and the entire map Destiny Map will remain unlocked and available, then fair enough.

    But unlocking the spheres again across 11 Epic TR's won't be that much of a pain to do. There's a fairly strong chance that you'll end up doing 12 Iconic lives for the Iconic Past Life feats, so that will unlock the whole thing for you anyway.

    I do agree there should be some sort of one-time benefit when this goes live for those of us that already have all ED's capped, I'm just not convinced that it should be uber powerful.

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Just to address people's passionate comments and opinions here: Keep in mind that this information is being presented to you far in advance of its implementation, and there's plenty of room to re-work the proposal in a variety of ways.
    This all reminds me of the level of bad choices and the uproar around the inclusion of raid loot in Cannith crafting. As in that case the solution was equally simple - don't do it. There's a lot to like in the new TR'ing, both epic and heroic. In this case all that is required is to give people the choice to keep their ED xp on heroic TR'ing. The epic end of things...that's certainly negotiable either way.

    While I don't like the idea that someone grinding out 11 ED's gets penalized by proxy in the Epic TR system the fact is that the Epic TR system is new. People have not made character decisions based on its mechanics because it didn't exist.

    But on the heroic TR end - people have made character decisions based on the mechanics for the existing heroic TR system. To change that system now in such a punitive fashion is unfair and is every bit as bad a decision as raid loot in Cannith crafting. I sincerely hope that Turbine realizes that and backs off from this decision as quickly as they backed off from that one.
    Last edited by Darkrok; 06-13-2013 at 02:03 PM. Reason: this or that...sometimes I use the wrong one :P
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  15. #515
    Community Member Towrn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Assuming ED XP is NOT reset with heroic TR (this is a line in the sand that we cannot concede) what I think would work for Epic TR is being allowed to keep your Fate points and keep the abilities of a "bonded" ED active while leveling up other EDs. Kinda like what we were able to do with Shears but without the other bugs.

    All previously un-locked Spheres need to remain unlocked, that way you can earn back your low-hanging fruit twists in a non-painful manner.

    That would be acceptable to me, and probably a lot of fun.

    I also am disappointed that a 4th twist isn't available. A 2/1/1/1 set of twists would be possible and nice for those who currently have max fate-points.

    Teh, this is part of a post that I posted earlier. I think we're saying the same basic thing, correct?



    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn View Post
    The idea that seems to make the most sense to me, so far, is this:

    Player X is lvl 28 and has all ED's fully maxed out.
    Player X Epic Trs with Fury of the Wild ED active.
    Player X becomes lvl 1 (not 100% I am reading the ED ranks transferring to Heroic ranks correctly)
    Player X has Fury of the Wild exp reset to 0 and the other 10 ED's exp remain unchanged.
    Player X now benefits from the Fury of the Wild Epic Past Life but has to re-level the Fury of the Wild ED after re-leveling to 20.

    In addition, since Player X is not losing all exp in all EDs, Player X only loses the 1-2 Fate points from losing the 5 levels of Fury of the Wild.
    Knorgh (Pally/monk) Currently on life number 32

  16. #516
    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Question

    TL;DR. (only read around a dozen comments plus all dev comments ofc)

    So far, at least for me, the text doesn't seem entirely clear ...

    I hope that it is meant the following way: (and if not please change to mean the following

    Heroic TR:

    Completely unchanged
    No additional bonuses
    No loss in EDs or whatever
    Also no easing on the XP curve
    Only need to be lvl 20 + have a True Heart
    Basically: Everything stays the same

    Epic TR:

    Loose all ED XP
    Gain lots of XP to start TRing from a higher level
    XP curve is flattened (to further speed up leveling)
    Not only gain the normal class based past live feat, but also an ED based feat
    Per ETR you can "save" one ED ... aka: 1. ETR: save one destiny, 2nd ETR save two destinies and so on, ...
    Keep your already acquired Fate Points (but ofc only get additional ones if you max out more destinies than you already had)
    Need to be level 28
    Need to have at least one destiny maxed out

    Iconic TR:

    whatever don't care atm (though that might change, when more info on shadar-kai comes out^^) ...
    but so far it sounds to me as if it is basically the same as a normal heroic TR, BUT if you TR out of an iconic, you not only get a class based past live feat, but also an iconic based one. If you ITR into an iconic you start at level 15 ...

    dev clarification would be more than welcome
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  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urjak View Post
    TL;DR. (only read around a dozen comments plus all dev comments ofc)

    So far, at least for me, the text doesn't seem entirely clear ...

    I hope that it is meant the following way: (and if not please change to mean the following

    Heroic TR:

    Completely unchanged
    No additional bonuses
    No loss in EDs or whatever
    Also no easing on the XP curve
    Only need to be lvl 20 + have a True Heart
    Basically: Everything stays the same
    That's not what they meant and that's why people are so up in arms. Heroic TR'ing is planned to remove all unbonded Epic Destiny XP and no Epic Destiny XP is bonded unless you do an Epic TR first. So a maxed out ED toon with no bonded ED's would get to start their next heroic TR life at level 11 or 12 (not completely clear on that point) but would be reset to 0xp in all epic destinies. That's the plan at this point at least.
    Tajawuka 9 monk/8 ranger/3 arti AA (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  18. #518
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Just to address people's passionate comments and opinions here: Keep in mind that this information is being presented to you far in advance of its implementation, and there's plenty of room to re-work the proposal in a variety of ways.
    Update 20 is not far in advance!

    When all else fails send in the community guys!
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  19. #519
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Please figure out a proposal that will not punish those with massive ED XP. This is the only concern in all of the presentation. I am very happy to be able to see this far into the future of DDO. Now we just need to be part of the process of compromise so that we all remain happy.
    Last edited by Atremus; 06-13-2013 at 02:41 PM.
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  20. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osharan_Tregarth View Post
    I think the main sticking point here is for the people that went ahead and (using the current system as designed) maxed out all of their epic destinies.

    We (I'll include myself in this group) did this, by some horrendously tedious xp grinding, knowing that once we put the time and effort into doing it, we'd never have to do it again. 16.5 million xp, at a minimum. It sucked.

    We put up with lousy destinies for the character we were playing (My sorc really gets nothing out of shadowdancer. Or dreadnought. Or a large variety of other epic destinies), so that we could get them done, and with the system in place, we'd never have to go back to them.
    Or grinded them directly after an TR back to level 25 to have them done while on a life that could make use of them. Especially under consideration that the final ED is probably directly opposite to the ED one has to start with and first has to be unlocked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osharan_Tregarth View Post
    ...

    For new characters going forward, no problem. I can see that the system will be much easier and less grindy.

    I'd suggest some type of token system when the update hits, that will serve as a one time unlock for each of the destinies that have already been done. So someone with 11 destinies at level five, would have 11 tokens that they could use after reincarnating, to preserve the time and effort that has already been done. Make em a min level 20, and do it for existing characters a week or two before the update hits. Or a month or two. But something.
    Indeed, for new players or players which just reached level 20 with none or only one active ED the new system will be nice, less grindy and a welcoming addition. I really like what I read from Glin in this regard!

    The token system would be an interesting option, to transit the new and the old. Also it would give us a choice right now to grind it out now, or later and probably easier without loosing what we accomplished ...

    PS: Just wondering, not long ago there was a bug that let players loose their ED on reincarnation. Turbine already got feedback how well not this was received then... and now this is suddenly all by design...
    Last edited by SisAmethyst; 06-13-2013 at 02:42 PM.
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

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