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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    I am excited to start sharing our plans for the future of the Reincarnation system! Later this year (targeting Update 20) we look forward to introducing two new TR destinations, Epic Destiny True Reincarnation and Iconic True Reincarnation. We’ve got some minor improvements involving Lesser and Greater Reincarnation in store, as well.


    We’ve seen a number of questions and discussions about TR, Iconics, and the TR / end-game gap. For the expansion pack, we are focused on ensuring that the new races are fun and playable, the content is fun and beautiful, and that the enhancement system changes launch as expected! With that, we plan to build out the TR system later in the year. The team is also taking the time to get your early feedback as the designers and engineers lock down feature plans. - How does this fit (or change) your playstyle? Read on for details, then let us know!

    A few goals for Epic Destiny TR:


    • Extend Reincarnation system to allow for 38-point builds
    • Include Epic Destinies in the TR cycle (with Epic Destiny Past Life Feats)
    • Reward you for additional investment in Epic Destinies (with starting ranks after TR)
    • Adjust the XP curve in Epic levels for multi-life TR to avoid the dramatic escalating grind
    • Include Iconics in the TR cycle (with Iconic Past Life Feats)
    • Allow you to TR into and out of Iconics (if you own Iconics)


    How does this system look in practice?

    Heroic True Reincarnation


    • Heroic TR remains primarily unchanged at level 20 or above
    • Grants a Class Past Life Feat that can stack up to 3x
    • Adds 2 build points up to a 36 point build
    • Benefits from the Epic Advantage if you earn Epic Destinies before TR (below)


    Epic Destiny True Reincarnation


    • Can be taken at Level Cap (Level 28 with Shadowfell Conspiracy)
    • Grants an Epic Destiny Past Life Feat
      • Feat based on active, maximized Epic Destiny

    • Karmic Bond -The active ED’s experience is now bonded through each ED True Reincarnation going forward
    • Grants a Class Past Life Feat (same as Heroic TR)
    • You must have a maximized, non-bonded ED to complete this TR
    • Adds 2 build points up to a 38 point build


    Epic Advantage


    With any type of True Reincarnation, all Epic Destiny Levels earned will give you an advantage when you rebuild your character, by converting Destiny Levels into Heroic Ranks. Every level of Epic Destiny you have earned will count toward ranks earned for your next life. (Epic Destinies will not carry over to your next life, except those destinies that you have bonded in previous lives with ED TR.)

    Iconic True Reincarnation

    That’s right; Iconics will have their own form of True Reincarnation, earning their own unique set of past-life feats. You will also be able to TR from any character into an Iconic, which begins at level 15, like normal. Epic Advantage also works on both ends, as well, transferring ED XP earned in your Iconic life, and, if you TR into an Iconic, adding XP on top of your level 15 starting XP.Can be taken at Level Cap (Level 28 with Shadowfell Conspiracy)


    • Grants an Iconic Past Life Feat that can stack up to 3x
    • Adds 2 build points up a 36 point build
    • Earns ranks from Epic Advantage


    What else?

    Here are some changes we’re currently exploring:


    • Reincarnation cooldown timer reduced to 3 days.
    • Reincarnation XP curves smoothed to ease penalties for multiple lives.
    • Lesser Reincarnation will allow a Heroic character to reincarnate as a Champion. Greater Reincarnation will no longer be sold, in favor of an improved Lesser Reincarnation.
    • Iconic characters will be able to Lesser Reincarnate


    We are eager to begin production on this system and appreciate the many players that are eager to see us fulfill the end game potential that the TR system presents. With these changes we are also keeping a long-term view for TR, such as how to expand the Epic Destiny system and continue to support level cap growth in the future.


    Our sincere intentions are to provide these features to you, and the DDO community at large. We invite you response to these details and thank you for your support and fortitude while we roll these changes out in support of this year’s expansion pack. The team is thrilled that DDO continues to grow, innovate, and provide a great D&D experience.
    I like the sound of these plans and goals, keep up the good work.

    As a side note to all the winjers - keep your bad news and whining to yourself, if you don't have any specific feedback contributions to submit that earnestly
    seeks to give a mature opinion on these changes then please refrain from posting. Your constantly negative and whimisal comments are supressive.

  2. #362
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    The entire ED TR "feature" reads like somebody tried to answer, "How do we penalize the players who already capped their ED XP by running Rusted Blades or Death Undone before we nerfed speed completions?"

    The ED feats gained through Epic TR will have to be amazing to justify the loss of 20mil XP. And we all know they'll be mediocre at best, assuming they even work as described. Turbine's track record isn't great in the fixing non-functional feats department. I'm looking at you Combat Archery.

    The 2 build points (for a 38 point build) aren't enough of a carrot when I can already create a character with 18/18/12 stats.

    If this goes live as described, I won't do another TR again. Even after completing 30 TRs, I've got plenty of lives left that I could do but won't.
    U19 Kensei: Centered Cleaver | TR Junkie Leveling Framework

    ~Ying~ (10 lives), ~Hamada~(9 lives), ~Vadanken~ (6 lives), ~Kobeyashi~ (10 lives)
    Over Raided of Orien, First Level 100 Guild

  3. #363
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    Thank you for sharing your vision and soliciting feedback.

    Overall I like the system, it's a big improvement over the current system. I think more should be done for people that maxed out many destinies although that doesn't impact me. People hate losing progress and that is the only flaw i see with your plan.

    Reducing the XP grind will be a good thing. I always thought reducing the xp requirement and removing bravery bonus made sense to encourage grouping. The other officiel topic thread has alot of comments about the guild system. i hope something will be done prior to U20 with regards to decay.

    Thanks again.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ykt View Post
    about 20 million XP for capping all EDs
    about 2 mins per Rusted Blades run
    about 20k XP per run

    20 million / 20k * 2 = 2000 mins = 33 hours

    33 hours of rusted blades? no thanks
    Grinding Rusted Blades for ED XP won't be an option when the level cap is 28. I wouldn't hold my breath for a Rusted Blades equivalent quest being released in Shadowfell or beyond.
    U19 Kensei: Centered Cleaver | TR Junkie Leveling Framework

    ~Ying~ (10 lives), ~Hamada~(9 lives), ~Vadanken~ (6 lives), ~Kobeyashi~ (10 lives)
    Over Raided of Orien, First Level 100 Guild

  5. #365
    Community Member Hokiewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixil View Post
    I like the sound of these plans and goals, keep up the good work.

    As a side note to all the winjers - keep your bad news and whining to yourself, if you don't have any specific feedback contributions to submit that earnestly
    seeks to give a mature opinion on these changes then please refrain from posting. Your constantly negative and whimisal comments are supressive.
    Clearly you have not read this thread and obviously do not understand what supressive means.

    It's amazing that Turbine is basically saying "the most obvious thing every player with EDs still to max out should do is STOP PLAYING UNTIL U20.....because if you wish to epic TR, you will have wasted a year playing that toon".

    It will be a year, don't kid yourself. It will take 6 months to fix the enhancements once they go live.
    Hilarious Princess....Sorry your life is so medicore after all this time..Lol, you are scared of a farmer? with a tractor....?

  6. #366
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    Everyone always complains that we don't get enough communication from the devs. Reading some of the (over-)reactions in this thread is enough to suggest at least some of why this doesn't happen all that often.

    I think the new changes have the potential to be very cool. I say we give the devs feedback about what we like and dislike, and have at least a little faith in them to create a good system, rather than immediately assuming that they want to nerf things or make TRing worse or cheat us out of XP or whatever.

  7. #367
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    I like the idea overall. Depending on the impact of...

    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    [*] Adjust the XP curve in Epic levels for multi-life TR to avoid the dramatic escalating grind
    [*] Reincarnation XP curves smoothed to ease penalties for multiple lives.
    My initial feedback would be to allow 1 Karmic Bonded Destiny to remain active while earning XP toward other Destinies.

    and my pet peeve is the ghost lfms
    Join Date: Nov 2009

  8. #368
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    Default So crappy shaddowfell in August , TR spankling in october-november-December?

    Yippy scippy,
    MY 1 year VIP sub is up around early October.. Guess that it then, so long and ty for the fish.
    I have always wanted to say thank you for the cleric neff, enhancement pass and finally the TR/ETR "fun".

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixil View Post
    I like the sound of these plans and goals, keep up the good work.

    As a side note to all the winjers - keep your bad news and whining to yourself, if you don't have any specific feedback contributions to submit that earnestly
    seeks to give a mature opinion on these changes then please refrain from posting. Your constantly negative and whimisal comments are supressive.
    You're a Scientologist, aren't you? (This is a reference to the use of the word "suppressive" and is supposed to be a joke.)
    Last edited by Coyopa; 06-13-2013 at 08:27 AM.

  10. #370
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixil View Post

    As a side note to all the winjers - keep your bad news and whining to yourself, if you don't have any specific feedback contributions to submit that earnestly
    seeks to give a mature opinion on these changes then please refrain from posting. Your constantly negative and whimisal comments are supressive.
    No, because we're right and you're wrong. If you support these proposed changes you either don't understand them or you are trolling.

    This will kill the game and we don't want it killed. d000m!!!! is the only thing that will save DDO.

  11. #371
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    I was taking an extended leave from the game, but keeping in touch to see how things were going to pan out.

    I know it is early yet on some things, but I guess that leave could be permanent since I have no desire to redo the ED grind on my main if I ever TR her, and I did want to TR her.

    Oh well, makes more room for Neverwinter, Wildstar, and other games.


    Let me know when DDO 2 comes out.

  12. #372
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redtalktree View Post
    Yippy scippy,
    MY 1 year VIP sub is up around early October.. Guess that it then, so long and ty for the fish.
    I have always wanted to say thank you for the cleric neff, enhancement pass and finally the TR/ETR "fun".
    Yeah, I'm kinda in the same boat with my VIP sub up in about 2 weeks. Thinking a 3 month renewal is about right as I don't believe this game will be around in a year.

    Also extremely glad I didn't pre-order this "expansion."

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Everyone always complains that we don't get enough communication from the devs. Reading some of the (over-)reactions in this thread is enough to suggest at least some of why this doesn't happen all that often.

    I think the new changes have the potential to be very cool. I say we give the devs feedback about what we like and dislike, and have at least a little faith in them to create a good system, rather than immediately assuming that they want to nerf things or make TRing worse or cheat us out of XP or whatever.
    No one is assuming anything. The devs came right out and said that this is their plan. And, yes, *some* of the changes do have potential. The problem is that the loss of 20+ million epic destiny exp is such a massive downside to their plans that it overwhelms everything else about their plans.

    To be honest, I haven't really seen any over-reactions to the loss of 20+ million exp. Unlike some of the basement-dwellers here, I did not (cannot, and would not) spend (lose?) an entire weekend grinding one quest until I completed my epic destinies (whether that is considered actually capping them all or doing what I did, which is to do just enough to get the twists I want). As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have three characters who are "done" with their epic destinies: a monk with 4/1/1 twists, a druid and rogue with 4/2/1 twists. While I did run Rusted Blades on these characters (and have admitted such in the past), I did it little by little and often solo, turning the quest in each time. It was still boring, but it was more fun than running it in a group and it turned out to be quite good for my guild renown. Once I ransacked the reward list, then I would stop running it on that character for a while. Typically, I only had time to run it to ransack once every three weeks on each character as I simply do not have time to run it to ransack on each of three characters weekly. So, I did it in rotation (and now that those three characters are done, I have not done it on any other character since because I just cannot stand it anymore).

    So, no, I have not over-reacted to the potential loss of over 20 million exp on each of three characters. If they go ahead with this plan, I will just leave the game. I left EverQuest with a 67 druid, 65 cleric, 56 monk, 51 bard, and multiple other lower level characters back when the cap was level 80 because I decided the grind to get there (and do all the Alternative Advancement ****) was too much. The grind here is considerably (even dramatically) less than that, but grinding is not fun and I avoid it as much as possible. Of course, "grind" is a subjective assessment because there may be people who find things fun that I find a grind. I know this is true for me - I am having fun running Tide Turns and Bargain of Blood over and over again for another seal and shard of the midnight greetings (collecting lots of loot, other seals and shards, and token fragments along the way), while many others would find it a grind.

  14. #374
    Community Member noinfo's Avatar
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    Get rid of the starting at level 1 for Epic TR. If you want to play the 1-20 game leave it for the normal TR's.

    Epic start at 20, and reset the xp of only the sphere you want to improve. ie if you want to improve Primal then all Primal ED's are set back to 0 and you gain a bonus in that area. Grinding back out all Spheres just to be able to access the ones you want and max fate points again is just the sort of pain to make people rage quit. Give some control over the areas that people want to improve one step at a time.
    Milacias of Kyber

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  15. #375
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    Losing ED exp upon TR would have been fine if it had been that way from the start. But throwing it in now, after it has been an explicit design feature for EDs to persist through TRs for months and months, is a terrible idea.

    I add my voice to the suggestion earlier of leave heroic TR separate from ED TR. If I want to reset my heroic levels, leave my ED levels alone.

    I don't run one quest 300 times to zerg 21 million exp. I'm a fairly casual player who already has a job thank you very much, I don't need to feel like I'm doing tedious work when I'm playing a game. I've been exploring epic level play for a while on my first level 20+ character and just getting to the point where I want to try TRing for the first time. This announcement makes me want to just park that character until I know whether the outcry is going to have any effect. Would we at least be keeping the unlocks that we earned to access other destinies than the one we started in?

    Is this "Epic Advantage" mandatory? Because maybe I want to skip the first few levels, but maybe I don't, depends on the class I'm leveling and how front- or back-loaded it is. Especially since I'm going to need to run all those level 2 quests anyway for Coin Lord backpack space.

  16. #376
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urgforum View Post
    Is this "Epic Advantage" mandatory? Because maybe I want to skip the first few levels, but maybe I don't, depends on the class I'm leveling and how front- or back-loaded it is. Especially since I'm going to need to run all those level 2 quests anyway for Coin Lord backpack space.
    As it is now yes, it is.

  17. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by noinfo View Post
    Get rid of the starting at level 1 for Epic TR. If you want to play the 1-20 game leave it for the normal TR's.

    Epic start at 20, and reset the xp of only the sphere you want to improve. ie if you want to improve Primal then all Primal ED's are set back to 0 and you gain a bonus in that area. Grinding back out all Spheres just to be able to access the ones you want and max fate points again is just the sort of pain to make people rage quit. Give some control over the areas that people want to improve one step at a time.
    +1

    I was going to suggest putting past live stuff in an enhancement tree.

    But then I remembered all spell power comes from spend x points in this tree and gain y spell power,
    therefore no one will want to spend any points outside of their caster type trees, making anything like
    racial or past life stuff worthless because basic needs like spell power is gained in the wrong fashion.

    Unless Beta has more common sense like offering spell power as a choice box.

  18. #378

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    Quote Originally Posted by Urgforum View Post
    Losing ED exp upon TR would have been fine if it had been that way from the start. But throwing it in now, after it has been an explicit design feature for EDs to persist through TRs for months and months, is a terrible idea.

    I add my voice to the suggestion earlier of leave heroic TR separate from ED TR. If I want to reset my heroic levels, leave my ED levels alone.

    I don't run one quest 300 times to zerg 21 million exp. I'm a fairly casual player who already has a job thank you very much, I don't need to feel like I'm doing tedious work when I'm playing a game. I've been exploring epic level play for a while on my first level 20+ character and just getting to the point where I want to try TRing for the first time. This announcement makes me want to just park that character until I know whether the outcry is going to have any effect. Would we at least be keeping the unlocks that we earned to access other destinies than the one we started in?

    Is this "Epic Advantage" mandatory? Because maybe I want to skip the first few levels, but maybe I don't, depends on the class I'm leveling and how front- or back-loaded it is. Especially since I'm going to need to run all those level 2 quests anyway for Coin Lord backpack space.
    +1

    Separate heroic from epic.

    Give us three epic TR choices, one with no reset of ed, one with only active reset of ed, one with total reset of ed.

    And if we don't get more fate points, don't reset any ed.

  19. #379

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    No one is assuming anything. The devs came right out and said that this is their plan. And, yes, *some* of the changes do have potential. The problem is that the loss of 20+ million epic destiny exp is such a massive downside to their plans that it overwhelms everything else about their plans.

    To be honest, I haven't really seen any over-reactions to the loss of 20+ million exp. Unlike some of the basement-dwellers here, I did not (cannot, and would not) spend (lose?) an entire weekend grinding one quest until I completed my epic destinies (whether that is considered actually capping them all or doing what I did, which is to do just enough to get the twists I want). As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have three characters who are "done" with their epic destinies: a monk with 4/1/1 twists, a druid and rogue with 4/2/1 twists. While I did run Rusted Blades on these characters (and have admitted such in the past), I did it little by little and often solo, turning the quest in each time. It was still boring, but it was more fun than running it in a group and it turned out to be quite good for my guild renown. Once I ransacked the reward list, then I would stop running it on that character for a while. Typically, I only had time to run it to ransack once every three weeks on each character as I simply do not have time to run it to ransack on each of three characters weekly. So, I did it in rotation (and now that those three characters are done, I have not done it on any other character since because I just cannot stand it anymore).

    So, no, I have not over-reacted to the potential loss of over 20 million exp on each of three characters. If they go ahead with this plan, I will just leave the game. I left EverQuest with a 67 druid, 65 cleric, 56 monk, 51 bard, and multiple other lower level characters back when the cap was level 80 because I decided the grind to get there (and do all the Alternative Advancement ****) was too much. The grind here is considerably (even dramatically) less than that, but grinding is not fun and I avoid it as much as possible. Of course, "grind" is a subjective assessment because there may be people who find things fun that I find a grind. I know this is true for me - I am having fun running Tide Turns and Bargain of Blood over and over again for another seal and shard of the midnight greetings (collecting lots of loot, other seals and shards, and token fragments along the way), while many others would find it a grind.
    +1 resetting ed is very serious

  20. #380
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
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    If you're going to make us buy 4 RACES that have the same CLASSES as the existing classes that are required for Completionist you need your head examined.
    =$==$==$==$==$==$==$==ORIEN==$==$==$==$==$==$==$=
    Darthwolf **(?_?) Zendarth m(?_?m) Darthnoheals \(?_?)
    =$==$==$==$==$==$==House Do'Urden==$==$==$==$==$==$=

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