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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    That would be too powerful in time.
    No offense but that is what happened during the exploit that will not be named.
    Yes, very much so. But it is about the minimum acceptable exchange for the horrid grind that leveling multiple off destinies is.

    Which was the point. It just seems that nobody on the dev team realizes just how bad a system it is we are putting up with, or maybe they do as they are changing it. But, at the least, they seem to have little appreciation for how miffed some of us are over losing everything we got from using with their awful system. If the system hadn't of been so bad to start we likely would be a lot less vocal right now.

  2. #302
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Ok, now that I've slept on the announcement here is my cold reaction on it :

    It's Too late for what you plan.

    If you had given us Epic TR that way last year, it wouldn't have been a problem as everybody would have known the rules before developing any Epic destiny, and actually it would have been an interesting thing.

    As things are, it's too late, lots of us have several capped destinies ( when not all ) and they are unwilling to loose that on their characters.
    So you just killed the game for these characters, as they won't be TRed anymore.

    This is further compounded by the fact that we were told several month ago that loosing Epic Destinies XP when doing an Heroic TR was not WAI.
    On G-Land : Flavilandile, Blacklock, Yaelle, Millishande, Larilandile, Gildalinde, Tenalafel, and many other...

  3. #303

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    Having some second thoughts about gaining 1 fate point per epic TR being enough.
    Simply put, perhaps we should look at numbers here:

    I took Fawngate the market place and reset her Fate Points.
    She has 20 which the max you can have.
    Two were purchased from the DDO store.
    Eighteen of them were earned by maximizing all her epic destinies.

    Unlock Twist one tier one: 1 fate point
    Unlock Twist one tier two: 2 fate points
    Unlock Twist one tier three: 3 fate points
    Unlock Twist one tier four: 4 fate points

    Unlock Twist two tier one: 2 fate point
    Unlock Twist two tier two: 3 fate points
    Unlock Twist two tier three: 4 fate points
    Unlock Twist two tier four: 5 fate points

    Unlock Twist three tier one: 3 fate point
    Unlock Twist three tier two: 4 fate points
    Unlock Twist three tier three: 5 fate points
    Unlock Twist three tier four: 6 fate points

    {Note that Fawn could view but not unlock twist three tier four,
    although she has many fate points.}

    So, by expanding the math:

    Unlock Twist four tier one: 4 fate point
    Unlock Twist four tier two: 5 fate points
    Unlock Twist four tier three: 6 fate points
    Unlock Twist four tier four: 7 fate points

    Unlock Twist fivr tier one: 5 fate point
    Unlock Twist five tier two: 6 fate points
    Unlock Twist fire tier three: 7 fate points
    Unlock Twist five tier four: 8 fate points

    I hope people can see where my extra fate points from the epic destines are going to
    be very quickly spent.


    If we allowed each epic destiny to become bounded after being reset once,
    then one could gain up to 36 fate points without using the DDO Store.

    How far will 36 fate points go?

    Twist one tier four costs 10 fate points
    Twist two tier four costs 14 fate points
    Twist three tier three costs 12 fate points

    And its already all spent...

    If you unlock a fourth twist tier one, then I have to drop Twist three down to tier two.
    Granting 4/4/2/1

    Massive amounts of fate points will go very quickly with the escalating twist math.

    Can you see why I don't object to large gains in fate points?


    Also, a point not brought up, she is one xp point away from level 6 on every epic destiny.
    This is major thing to throw away. I suspect she is not the only one.

    Also, why give us Epic TRing now when the Epic destinies need to have the next 5 levels added to them?

  4. #304

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Yes, very much so. But it is about the minimum acceptable exchange for the horrid grind that leveling multiple off destinies is.

    Which was the point. It just seems that nobody on the dev team realizes just how bad a system it is we are putting up with, or maybe they do as they are changing it. But, at the least, they seem to have little appreciation for how miffed some of us are over losing everything we got from using with their awful system. If the system hadn't of been so bad to start we likely would be a lot less vocal right now.
    I agree.

    I think they just painted Fawngate into a corner after all.

    And I had such high hopes for Iconic TRing...

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnubisPrime View Post
    Thanks for all this info. It's much to digest.

    I was talking it over with a guildie, and one concern is that as the XP curve is revisited, and it will be easier to TR (Heroic)--it will sort of feel like a kick in the chops to those completionists and multiple TR folks who spent the greater part of a few years doing such.

    It's progress and "moving forward", but it may be prudent to give at least a symbolic reward to those vets and founders whom ground-out the XP and TR'd before this new change takes effect. No, I'm not discounting the boost to VIP XP, the Founder's Helm, Boots, and I do appreciate the exclusive forum avatars.

    Maybe an automatic XP boost if an epic TR is done, or a free "Been Through Death and Back" feat for those who TR'd prior to the change X many times, or those who are current completionists.

    In this way, you then bring new people into a robust system of character development, and you satisfy some of the concerns of those who have been around for years (or the start of it all) by rewarding them with something that is not necessarily game breaking.

    I see myself doing the Epic TRs on my TR/completionist character. It might be cool to put him through the Iconic wringer a few times .

    My other characters may do one or two of these depending on the benefit of the epic past life feats.

    All this of course depends on what the reality of it is...


    You get a cookie, good job. Get over it. You Chose to sit on your a@@ and do it.


    Either way they choose, i feel a better description would be the most advantageous thing to do at this point. Currently this thread is mostly speculation.
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  6. #306

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    Quote Originally Posted by cforce View Post
    I dunno, seems unlikely. People on the hamster wheel = more revenue; I think Turbine knows that TR'ing is a revenue generator for them, much more so than a specific content pack?

    Here's the million-dollar question for me: will losing ED xp result in loss of unlocked twist slots? If I get to keep all fate points (or potentially earn even more than the current max) by re-leveling destinies, I might consider it. That potentially cuts out a *lot* of the re-grind; usually only two or three of the EDs are ones I *actually* care about; all the others I'm leveling (and being annoyed about being in, most of the time) purely to generate fate points for twists.

    I'll take my Pale Master as an example. The destinies I'm actually using, between active use and twists, are DI, Magister, and Shiradi. If I "lock in" Shiradi, keep all my twist slots as they stand, and start leveling up DI/Magister again at 20, earning *more* fate points to the point where I can twist 4/4/4, I'm interested. If all fate points/slots are lost, too, then I'm out, and never TR'ing.
    I think he sums it up right here.

    I return to my original point, I'll throw all my Epic destiny xp in the trash can,
    if you let us keep our already earned fate points, because that is the only reason
    Fawngate leveled up some of those epic destinies, and you remove the level cap
    from twists, and you grant us more twist slots.

  7. #307

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    There is a ton of potential with twists, but the only way to earn fate points atm
    is to create new epic destinies or increase the level of epic destinies.

    You should separate heroic and epic and iconic.
    Heroic and Iconic TR should not affect epic destinies.

    You should consider creating multiple epic TRing.

    One that leaves the epic desties alone and returns you to level 20.
    One that reset the active epic destiny only and returns you to level 20.
    One that reset all your epic destinies and returns you to level 20.

    Choices are good.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Having some second thoughts about gaining 1 fate point per epic TR being enough.
    Simply put, perhaps we should look at numbers here:

    I took Fawngate the market place and reset her Fate Points.
    She has 20 which the max you can have.
    Two were purchased from the DDO store.
    Eighteen of them were earned by maximizing all her epic destinies.

    Unlock Twist one tier one: 1 fate point
    Unlock Twist one tier two: 2 fate points
    Unlock Twist one tier three: 3 fate points
    Unlock Twist one tier four: 4 fate points

    Unlock Twist two tier one: 2 fate point
    Unlock Twist two tier two: 3 fate points
    Unlock Twist two tier three: 4 fate points
    Unlock Twist two tier four: 5 fate points

    Unlock Twist three tier one: 3 fate point
    Unlock Twist three tier two: 4 fate points
    Unlock Twist three tier three: 5 fate points
    Unlock Twist three tier four: 6 fate points

    {Note that Fawn could view but not unlock twist three tier four,
    although she has many fate points.}

    So, by expanding the math:

    Unlock Twist four tier one: 4 fate point
    Unlock Twist four tier two: 5 fate points
    Unlock Twist four tier three: 6 fate points
    Unlock Twist four tier four: 7 fate points

    Unlock Twist fivr tier one: 5 fate point
    Unlock Twist five tier two: 6 fate points
    Unlock Twist fire tier three: 7 fate points
    Unlock Twist five tier four: 8 fate points

    I hope people can see where my extra fate points from the epic destines are going to
    be very quickly spent.


    If we allowed each epic destiny to become bounded after being reset once,
    then one could gain up to 36 fate points without using the DDO Store.

    How far will 36 fate points go?

    Twist one tier four costs 10 fate points
    Twist two tier four costs 14 fate points
    Twist three tier three costs 12 fate points

    And its already all spent...

    If you unlock a fourth twist tier one, then I have to drop Twist three down to tier two.
    Granting 4/4/2/1

    Massive amounts of fate points will go very quickly with the escalating twist math.

    Can you see why I don't object to large gains in fate points?


    Also, a point not brought up, she is one xp point away from level 6 on every epic destiny.
    This is major thing to throw away. I suspect she is not the only one.

    Also, why give us Epic TRing now when the Epic destinies need to have the next 5 levels added to them?
    That seems to be WAI. Even if they were to add more twist slots, I don't see a lot on new fate points being added as it seems more likely that those would be for more low tier twists than high tier.

    Also, what makes you think there will ever be more than 5 levels/destiny. While I could possibly see them adding a 6th with nothing else added if they felt a few more fate points were needed (because of added slots maybe), I don't really see anything added above the current epic moments.

  9. #309

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    Would you consider opening up level 6 on the epic destinies?

    Even Madfloyd was sympathic that some earned all but 1 xp for gaining the next level.
    That is 11 more epic destiny levels.

    I am not sure how many fate points would be.

  10. #310

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    That seems to be WAI. Even if they were to add more twist slots, I don't see a lot on new fate points being added as it seems more likely that those would be for more low tier twists than high tier.
    Yes, a fifth twist slot would be close to useless.
    Also, what makes you think there will ever be more than 5 levels/destiny. While I could possibly see them adding a 6th with nothing else added if they felt a few more fate points were needed (because of added slots maybe), I don't really see anything added above the current epic moments.
    Yes looking at the epic destinies themselves, they do seem complete in their own way.
    A few more action points would be nice. Bringing in level 6 without changing content
    could be done.

    I'm just trying to imagine the future, and looking at min level on epic destinies,
    and wondering where the level cap will end?

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Would you consider opening up level 6 on the epic destinies?

    Even Madfloyd was sympathic that some earned all but 1 xp for gaining the next level.
    That is 11 more epic destiny levels.

    I am not sure how many fate points would be.
    4 total if with all destinies capped, for 22 total/24 with +2 tome. Which would be just enough to unlock tier 1 of a hypothetical 4th slot beyond what we currently have available.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Yes, a fifth twist slot would be close to useless.
    I can find lots of uses for it myself. Even if that means settling for a lower tier 1st slot. So many nice tier 1 powers that stand on their own.

  13. #313

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    4 total if with all destinies capped, for 22 total/24 with +2 tome. Which would be just enough to unlock tier 1 of a hypothetical 4th slot beyond what we currently have available.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I can find lots of uses for it myself. Even if that means settling for a lower tier 1st slot. So many nice tier 1 powers that stand on their own.
    Very true.
    Players love the twists feature, expand it.

    Sign me up for a half dozen twists.

  14. #314

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    I still think Epic Destinies will be:

    Levels 1 thru 5 (min level 20)
    Levels 6 thru 10 (min level 25)
    Levels 11 thru 15 (min level 30)

  15. #315

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    ...We are also making balance changes to compensate for the fact that the system goes into higher levels,
    There, did he say increasing epic destinies?
    ...and will continue to post here with more details as we go (such as details regarding Fate Points,
    Sure would like to hear about fate points.

  16. #316

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    Nice Tier Five stuff:

    Flyby attack ~ Draconic

    Devastating critical ~ Legendary Dreadnought

    Nulmagic Strike ~ Magistar

    Chil of Winter ~ Primal Avatar

    Nerve Venom ~ Shiradi

    Ward against evil ~ nyielding Sentinel


    Evasion from tier six of Primal Avatar is uber
    (conditions apply)

    There as so many good less twists...

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    This is a bit over the top. Play other MMOs. A weekend grind is quite easy compared to most other MMOs.
    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post

    2. Honestly, I'm a bit confused about Epic TRing. Perhaps I need more coffee. But, I have no problem with an optional separate TR system that makes you reset EDs. It takes a weekend to max out EDs, and it's sort of the problem I have with endgame.
    you must be one of those whom can solo von 5...

    Lets see:
    21mil xp to cap all destinies.
    Say you are getting 25k XP every 3 min from the house. (I am being generous).
    So you need to do that about 871 times.
    Times 3 min = 43 hours non-stop.

    Hmm so technicaly, yes, you can do it in a weekend.

    Easy.
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    ~~ Adrunel - Monkcher. (Moncher?) ~~
    Robodoc - FvS Evoker-Healer. Post 19: Ended up LRing into 13/7 forc
    Orien server.

  18. #318
    Uber Uber Completionist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Would you consider opening up level 6 on the epic destinies?

    Even Madfloyd was sympathic that some earned all but 1 xp for gaining the next level.
    That is 11 more epic destiny levels.

    I am not sure how many fate points would be.
    Or maybe just renumber them from 1 to 6 the way they should have been in the first place?

    Our number systems have always started at 1, it was a bit of a surprise to me when ED's came along with a starting value of 0. Start them at 1 which does mean that someone gets 1 Fate Point right away, so when they get their first destiny to level 4 (the old level 3) where they can switch to another ED in the same sphere, they will actually have 2 Fate Points and only need to gain rank 2 in their newly active ED to have the option of either a Tier 2 Twist Slot, or two Tier 1 Twist Slots.

    Having that "extra bit that does nothing" from 1,500,000 to 1,980,000 just to have it capped to Epic TR and bond it isn't a bad idea, now that it's an actual cap to bond it give is a purpose where there wasn't one before.

  19. #319
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    Short term: Oh, gaining epic exp is useless now, why bother with epic content at all? LFM for 20+ was already dry, I suppose it will be dwindling to nothingness soon.

    After this goes live: Oh, doing TR has such high cost, I just won't TR. A week later: Oh, I've now done all epic content once, would be nice to do some other quests to add variance. See short term. Ok, so what other games are there that I should play instead?

    And previously I thought the destiny grind where you spend almost all of your time in the wrong/unfinished destinies was bad. In comparison to TR changes, it looks like a work of genius.

  20. #320

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSFWEl View Post
    Hmm so technicaly, yes, you can do it in a weekend.

    Easy.
    Lol, not me...

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