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  1. #221
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    Simply put, any system that penalizes people that ground out all of their epic destinies for doing so is a complete failure. When they first added TR'ing, everyone had the exact same amount of level 20 experience. No one had spent 10's or 100's of hours grinding quests just for xp at the cap. They may have raided, gotten gear, etc, but no one had gone through that insane grind. So everyone was on equal footing going in to the new system.

    Now a new system is being proposed where NOT working toward improving your character is rewarded by proxy. If you have a toon that's capped 1 epic destiny and hit level 28 they lose NOTHING but starting a TR to TR. Take another character that's capped 11 epic destinies and hit level 28 and they lose nearly 20 million xp. That's punitive and feels like Turbine is out to punish their more active players.

    Personally I will not spend a dime on this because I'd rather have a level 28, maxed ED toon with whatever past lives I have at the time than to EVER go through the epic destiny grind again. I've worked my butt off over the last several weeks to cap 1 toon's ED's and was planning on doing the same on my sorc. You'd have to cut the ED grind to about 10% of what it is right now for me to EVER consider doing it again. So basically you've taken someone that might have TR'd several times after the next update to try out different builds and locked me out of doing so. I'll make sure I'm on the build I want and then I'll stay there. Most likely I'll be capped...I'll get bored...and I'll leave. The ED system that you designed is not fun. Rather than accepting that and looking for a way to make it more enjoyable you've doubled down on it and created even more grind.

    I'll pass.
    Tajawuka 9 monk/8 ranger/3 arti AA (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  2. #222
    Uber Completionist kain741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthsarlacc View Post
    I have not yet started leveling my epic destinies, I love the proposed changes.
    Levels the playing field between people like me, and those who ground out rusted blades before the xp nerf.

    Is this going to fix the shears of fate exploit? The people who took advantage of that deserve to have their ED xp reset.

    Sure, it levels the playing field. And if they took all my past lives away that would level the playing field with someone who just rolled up their first toon on Korthos an hour ago. I was under the assumption the point of putting the work in was to make our toons better and stronger and not to be recalibrated so those that haven't put the time in would feel better. Should the point be to make everyone equal? If so, why would anyone work to get ahead?
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  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by nni View Post
    This makes sense. It does not punish people for having capped out other destinies.
    Yes, absolutely. When we level to 20 we lost all of the xp of leveling to 20. We lost none of the ED xp. That's because that's not what we were TR'ing. It should stay like that!

    If you want to add an epic advantage add it for people that have epic TR'd and add it for the number of bonded destinies you have. NEVER wipe epic xp on a heroic TR. It simply kills the heroic TR game completely.

    And on epic TR's, they should absolutely only wipe the destiny you're TR'ing.

    The only way I could see it working if you plan on wiping ED is to do what many have suggested and bond all ED xp gained before this system is implemented. Otherwise you will just lose your longer-term players. I know people that have ground out max ED's on 20+ toons. I can guarantee you they're gone with this system. I know I would be. No system should be punitive to previous success.
    Tajawuka 9 monk/8 ranger/3 arti AA (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  4. #224
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    Yknow what else all these proposed changes do?

    Suffocate my choices. I feel paralyzed now to do anything on ANY of my characters. Even if I want to TR on a heroic level I'll lose all my epic destiny experience, and WHO KNOWS if I'll wanna stay in my given class forever and grind Epic Destinies because "soon" Turbine is forcing an entire revamp of CLASS ABILITIES on us.

    So hey, even if we don't like the changes to our classes guess what? We no longer have the choice to TR into a class we may enjoy more. Why? Because we would lose all the millions of experience from our Epic Destinies we may want to cling too.

    This is developmental entrapment. I'm being punished and limited. I suddenly have zero interest in playing any of my characters, not only that, I'm not just void of interest but void of COMFORT and SECURITY for any plans really.

    Way to deal another mortal blow to your game Turbine.

    Unless...perhaps? Maybe? Will you wise up? Listen to players?

  5. #225
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    Default I'm being constructive

    After most of a day to think about it... here are my two (+1) thoughts that are more fixes to this system rather then outright dismissal.

    1. Allow heroic/iconic TR's to decide if they want to push ED levels into heroic XP at the start of a next life. Put some altar with multiple warnings at the new TR-zone-in area/iconic start-up area. This would allow them with multiple warnings and a tome-length progress-bar to turn ED-levels into heroic ranks for this life. There may be a point where someone does want to do this... maybe. In theory it's also easier on your tech since it would keep heroic TR working the same way it currently does.
    2. There's currently a number of players who have invested a ton of time into maxing all ED's and don't want to see that JUST turn into heroic XP if they Epic TR. Provide some BIG one time CARROT for those that Epic TR a destiny-maxed character:
      • Something BIG that can only be acquired once: 40 pt build. or +2 points to use in your active destiny or a second selectable heroic or epic past life feat. (Would also bond the 2nd epic ED).
      • Restart the character with enough XP to level to 20. You could actually do this part anytime someone Epic TR's a destiny-full character... which would happen more and more as they get all their destinies bonded.
    3. Also... 1 ED to 1 Heroic Rank seems small. Add in a mini-game challenge allowing the player to win a higher return on ED investment. We'll call it Shinies vs. Kobolds.


    It would also help to see the devs thoughts on auto-granted ED feats/bonuses. A little carrot to go with the how it happens.
    Last edited by Gratch; 06-12-2013 at 08:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    DO NOT DO THIS. We are investigating.

  6. #226
    Community Member moops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthsarlacc View Post
    I have not yet started leveling my epic destinies, I love the proposed changes.
    Levels the playing field between people like me, and those who ground out rusted blades before the xp nerf.

    Is this going to fix the shears of fate exploit? The people who took advantage of that deserve to have their ED xp reset.

    I am not sure why you feel the paying field needs to be leveled? We are not in competition with each other such as pvp.

    It's good to have someone like me who can lead raids and quests, and take new people and try to teach them the strategies of these things, get them some gear. I will do this because I know in the end that I have a build that can solo or duo it if need be to get it done...tho of course I would never do this for a group that was not TRYING.
    Last edited by moops; 06-12-2013 at 08:01 PM.
    Hexxa CLR 25 *TR* * ~Hexanna ~*TR* FVS 25 * Hexecuter CLR 20 *Flexanna RGR/R/M 18/1/1 *TR* * Flexa FTR/R 18/2 TR * Hextravaganz Bard *TR* 18/2 * Hexotic Sorc 13 * Hexquisite Wiz 23 * ~~Quantum Entropy * SARLONA~~ - * and various other scoundrels

  7. #227
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    My current playstyle is to play a character up to 20, and then advance in a destiny or 2, and then heroic tr. Then when i get to level 20 again, usually in a different class, i work on a couple of more destinies before doing another tr.

    I understand how doing an epic tr would wipe your destiny xp. I'm not sure why people would be surprised at this. Doing a heroic tr wipes all your heroic xp.

    Keep them separate please.

    If you heroic tr, reset the heroic xp, but leave the destiny xp alone.

    If you epic tr, leave the heroic xp alone. restart at level 20. Then do the epic thing again. This would be for those people who only like playing at endgame.

    The idea that every tr will require you to do the ENTIRE xp grind again, both heroic and epic is mind numbing just to think about.

  8. #228
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    As an extra added incentive I think we should get an extra 2 points to spend in the destiny trees for a total of 26 points per tree which leads on to the following...

    Having destinies available from level 10/creation sounds like a good idea but I think it should be split up. Each destiny is split in to 5 levels each with ranks which allocates 4 points to spend in the destiny tree, this could be set up so that points become available at certain levels such as:

    Level 0/creation - 4 points.
    Level 4 - 4 points.
    Level 8 - 4 points.
    Level 12 - 4 points.
    Level 16 - 4 points.
    Level 20 - 4 points.

    This could be given as a general past life feat which is only given once and could say "Your remember more about your epic life, as you gain levels you regain abilities from your destiny at the rate of 4 points per 4 levels past creation", also you would be able to switch between destinies at will (public areas only I mean) which have been fully unlocked and bonded regardless of where they are in the tree. Also this would unlock your twists as you approach level so by the time you reach 20 you would have all the fate points from whatever destinies you have unlocked, yes I know many people have fully unlocked their destinies and there should be something to help them obviously I just see little point in complaining about the system when Turbine Devs have asked for ideas as well as feedback to make things better hence the above

    I like the looks of the past life feats somebody posted though I would change LD from +5 damage to +1[W] on all melee attacks (stacks with other sources such as Deadly Weapons), these past life feats need to be seriously (and I mean SERIOUSLY) good otherwise people won't bother with them. They must be attractive enough for them to lose all that ED XP as it currently stands it simply has to happen.

    Stoner81.

  9. #229
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Has anyone else ordered 2 months of popcorn in advance for when the bugs start coming in?

    The entire reincarnation system will be a mess after they try to pull this one off...
    Cetus Heroic Lives: #32/32 | Epic Completionist: #20/24 | Iconic Lives: #6/6
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  10. #230
    Community Member Ziindarax's Avatar
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    Default So... you're dramatically altering the TR game, eh? Here are my thoughts.

    Since we're talking about changing the way TRing works, I'd like to start with one of my MAJOR pet peeves with the TR system:

    TR cache. Let's face it, over each character's life, we accumulate items and what not that are useful to us (and for many of us, we also take the time to accumulate loot that will benefit our next planned life [or lives]). Problem is, we simply don't have enough inventory/bank space to store all the junk we accumulate (and while it is true that you can probably destroy a good amount of it, eventually, it's going to get to a point where all "junk" you have in your TR cache is valuable, hard-to-obtain loot that you don't want to throw away).

    My suggestion: Either make it so you don't have to clear out your TR cache before you TR, OR offer us Supreme Enchanted Bags of Holding (SEBoH) that work like Colossal bags that are capable of holding THOUSANDS of unique items (complete with a search function as with the other bags, and also adding an advanced search/organization feature to quickly and more easily find desired items). Should you go along with the route of adding supreme enchanted bags, there are two critical functions that need to be added to make this work.

    a) GM-Flagging: Basically, whenever you put in (or remove) an item from this bag, it leaves a flag or tracer for a GM/Turbine Account staff. The purpose of this is to prevent situations wherein if the player, for whatever reason, winds up LOSING their Supreme Enchanted Bags of Holding (usually by glitch) via TR'ing or whatever (and by extension, EVERYTHING they put into the now lost bag), it would enable a GM/Turbine Account staff to quickly find and retreive those items. This feature would also work in such a way that items stored within other bags that THEN wind up into the SEBoH would also be recorded so no one has to worry about losing collectables (such as Flawless Red Dragon scales), or Ingredients (such as that once-in-a-millenium-super-ultra-hyper-rare Shard of the Ring of Spell Storing) in the event that the bag gets lost.

    b) Multi-selector: Another annoying feature of TR caches is that you must Meticulously, and painstakingly empty your cache ONE. ITEM. AT. A. TIME. These SEBoH's should offer the ability to select multiple items (or even the ability to take ALL of them out at once, if one should so desire), and with a single click, receive those items.

    As for the rest, here are my 10 cents (with questions mixed in):

    Problem #1: Your "Epic Advantage" is only really "Epic" if you TR into an Iconic (seeing as you start at level 15, and could potentially be boosted to level 20). In practice, this does more harm than good (even for Iconics) because it currently takes a considerable amount of time to level or farm a destiny without experience potions, and with your current proposition, it seems flat out wasteful to TR.

    Proposed Solution #1: Epic Advantage should MEAN Epic Advantage; when you Epic TR, you should receive: either SP or HP (depending on the destiny you "bonded" with), a MEANINGFUL boost granted by the epic destiny (for example, those who TR'ed bonding with Legendary Dreadnaught should receive a stacking +20 boost to the DC's of their tactical abilities [+20 may seem like a lot, but really it's not when you consider the inflated saves of enemy mobs, especially Epic Elites]), AND... a flag.

    Yes, a flag - When you ED TR a certain number of times, you get additional benefits. Below is a rough outline of what I have in mind:

    2-3 destinies bonded: a stacking +20 boost to your universal spell power, +2% to hit and damage with all weapons, and +1 to all saves.

    4 destinies bonded - Your knowledge of the Universe has expanded greatly, and you have become proficient with manipulating your fate - As such, you are now able to have two epic destinies active at any given time (though only one of them can be bonded).

    5-6 destinies bonded: the boosts provided in #1 increases to +50 stacking boost to your universal spell power, +5% to hit and damage with all weapons, and +3 to all saves. The DC's of ALL your spells (if applicable) are increased by +5.

    7 Destinies bonded: You receive 4 additional action points for each of the destinies you've bonded with so far. This would allow a player to unlock more abilities (or ability scores), thus granting greater benefits.

    8 Destinies bonded: You permanently receive 2 additional epic feat slots (one at level 22, and another at level 25).


    9 Destinies bonded: *like the 7 destinies bonded tier, but for nine destinies.*


    10 Destinies bonded: Sage of the Ages: Your knowledge of the Universe continues to grow - you can now have 3 destinies active at any given time.

    11 Destinies bonded/Completionist: A Deity Amongst Mortals - Your understanding of the Universe has expanded to such a degree that you've nearly become a god. Passive feat - You gain +8 stacking boost to all ability scores and skills. Your Spellpower (if applicable) is increased by 200, your spell DC's are increased by 20, and your to-hit and weapon damage is increased by 20. Furthermore, all active destinies have their effects doubled (example - The ability score boosts in Sentinel would now grant +2 per tier instead of +1, Adrenaline Overload grants an 800% damage boost instead of 400%). This feat becomes inactive when more destinies are added.


    Problem/Question #1: What happens to the fate points when you TR seeing as you lose all levels from unbonded destinies?

    Solution #2a: If we lose fate points - don't let us lose fate points. Please!

    Solution #2b: If we don't, make it to where we can eventually twist more than three slots(?)


    Problem #2: Having players lose Epic Destiny exp from non-bonded destinies just from a Heroic TR is a bad idea. Such a bad idea that I feel it would gravely penalize those who simply want to TR out of a build that becomes invalidated (read, worthless from a nerf to some gameplay feature, bug, or "balance" pass).

    Solution #2: Heroic TRing should be left as it is - you don't lose any Epic destiny exp, but you also don't get Epic Destiny past life feats.

    Problem #3: +2 stat points to make a 38-point build (and only a 38-point build) seems kinda trivial for what is incurred, and is not much incentive to TR (especially if all we have to show for each destiny TR is a meager feat that almost isn't the sacrifice to gain it).

    Solution #3: Enable players to get as high as 44-point builds (this would encourage multiple Destiny TR's, imo).


    Question #2: Will Iconic Past Life feats benefit non-iconic characters when you TR out of them, and will they be benefits that are locked to a specific class/race (I.E. Bladeforged PL's benefitting only warforged and Paladins, and not really benefitting anyone else)?


    Problem #4: Non-bonded Epic Destiny levels being placed into heroic levels seems rather... flawed.

    Solution #4: Epic Destiny exp should not be poured into heroic leveling... at least, not against our will. At the very least, let us choose when to apply that exp with regards to applying exp (this wouldn't be too bad in the level 18-20 range). However, it would be preferable to keep Epic and Heroic Exp totally seperate (see far above).

    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Thanks for all the responses so far everyone. The team will try to address the details as best we can this early in development. Here are a few more clarifications as we’re reviewing your comments:

    • Our intention is that players will be able to earn or buy Epic Destiny TR hearts of wood.
    • We’ll continue to add more epic level content so that players have a variety of paths for leveling.
    • To engage with Epic Destiny TR, you don’t have to have all destinies maxed out. Character level 28 + one maxed destiny is when you can bond your first destiny.
    • We are revisiting XP curves in not only the Heroic levels but also the Epic levels. This would make leveling (and ultimately bonding) a Destiny a faster process compared to the current pace.
    • True Reincarnation has always been about giving up your current life in exchange for increased power in your next life. We are early enough in the design work that we want to also hear ideas from players on what types of destiny feats they’d like to see in their next life in exchange for reincarnating their destinies.

    We are also making balance changes to compensate for the fact that the system goes into higher levels, and we expect that parts of the design summary will seem less harsh once these details are better understood. We’ll be reading discussion in this thread and will continue to post here with more details as we go (such as details regarding Fate Points, Completionist, and the exact effects of turning in your Epic Destiny xp on your new life).
    Last edited by Ziindarax; 06-12-2013 at 08:25 PM. Reason: forgot to cover the destiny-to-heroic-ranks matter.
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  11. #231
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Thanks for all the responses so far everyone. The team will try to address the details as best we can this early in development. Here are a few more clarifications as we’re reviewing your comments:

    • Our intention is that players will be able to earn or buy Epic Destiny TR hearts of wood.
    • We’ll continue to add more epic level content so that players have a variety of paths for leveling.
    • To engage with Epic Destiny TR, you don’t have to have all destinies maxed out. Character level 28 + one maxed destiny is when you can bond your first destiny.
    • We are revisiting XP curves in not only the Heroic levels but also the Epic levels. This would make leveling (and ultimately bonding) a Destiny a faster process compared to the current pace.
    • True Reincarnation has always been about giving up your current life in exchange for increased power in your next life. We are early enough in the design work that we want to also hear ideas from players on what types of destiny feats they’d like to see in their next life in exchange for reincarnating their destinies.

    We are also making balance changes to compensate for the fact that the system goes into higher levels, and we expect that parts of the design summary will seem less harsh once these details are better understood. We’ll be reading discussion in this thread and will continue to post here with more details as we go (such as details regarding Fate Points, Completionist, and the exact effects of turning in your Epic Destiny xp on your new life).
    That is the BIGGEST BS i have ever seen!
    I had to grind my way through complete garbage ED on all my chars because you dont let us start where we want.
    And now you want me to give up all that hatefull grinden ED xp?

    Go and ask Dr.Who if he borrows you his Sonic Device because you can Sonic Device yourself!

    The only good thing is that i did not buy the xpac yet and if that BS goes live i will just quit.
    Because this is the last straw.
    All that ED GRIND for nothing...
    Taenebrae, Daemonsoul, Daemoneyes and Daemonheart of Argonessen
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  12. #232
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Thanks for all the responses so far everyone. The team will try to address the details as best we can this early in development. Here are a few more clarifications as we’re reviewing your comments:

    • Our intention is that players will be able to earn or buy Epic Destiny TR hearts of wood.
    • We’ll continue to add more epic level content so that players have a variety of paths for leveling.
    • To engage with Epic Destiny TR, you don’t have to have all destinies maxed out. Character level 28 + one maxed destiny is when you can bond your first destiny.
    • We are revisiting XP curves in not only the Heroic levels but also the Epic levels. This would make leveling (and ultimately bonding) a Destiny a faster process compared to the current pace.
    • True Reincarnation has always been about giving up your current life in exchange for increased power in your next life. We are early enough in the design work that we want to also hear ideas from players on what types of destiny feats they’d like to see in their next life in exchange for reincarnating their destinies.

    We are also making balance changes to compensate for the fact that the system goes into higher levels, and we expect that parts of the design summary will seem less harsh once these details are better understood. We’ll be reading discussion in this thread and will continue to post here with more details as we go (such as details regarding Fate Points, Completionist, and the exact effects of turning in your Epic Destiny xp on your new life).
    That is the BIGGEST BS i have ever seen!
    I had to grind my way through complete garbage ED on all my chars because you dont let us start where we want.
    And now you want me to give up all that hatefull grinden ED xp?

    Go and ask Dr.Who if he borrows you his Sonic Device because you can Sonic Device yourself!

    The only good thing is that i did not buy the xpac yet and if that BS goes live i will just quit.
    Because this is the last straw.
    All that hateful souleating ED GRIND for nothing...
    Taenebrae, Daemonsoul, Daemoneyes and Daemonheart of Argonessen
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  13. #233
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    Well and while you borrowed that Sonic Device use it on your Forums to because they still suck
    had to triple login, double header and i was dumb enough to take a peek on it without stylebot which made me throw up.
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  14. #234
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    So what happens to our Fate Points? Hm?

    I would LOVE an answer on that. Do those all get lost with every TR?

  15. #235
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Default I want someadat!

    Dear DDO Development Team:

    I will pay top dollar for whatever substance it was that you injected/inhaled/imbibed/absorbed before you sat down around the table and came up with this scheme.

    TOP DOLLAR!

    Thanks,

    A formerly enthusiastic DDO player.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  16. #236
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    If the "Lose all destiny XP when TRing" thing goes through I'll be very disappointed.

    My Monk will simply never TR as she has maxxed most of the destinies, and would lose too much for what would probably be minor gain. I had planned on Tring her for some past life feats and more build points, but losing ALL destiny XP is crazy.

    My soon-to-be-Completionist is the big loser. I'd lose a lot of epic XP for no benefit (I level/TR with my guild, and they wouldn't want to wait for the 5 or 6 million epic XP to reach 28th). He has all destinies at level 3 or 4.

    My other characters don't lose much; they have only two or three destinies. The Epic past lifes would have to be really good to be worth grinding to 28th though.

    Geoff.
    PS: I was thinking it would be something like "Reset an ED to level 0, get some minor bonus." That would probably be too easy though.

  17. #237
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNellesen View Post
    A formerly enthusiastic DDO player.
    It's like a hot frying pan to the face of failures.

    That Dev avoiding the real question confirms that we lose ED XP at every TR.

    At what point does it make sense to give up 20+ Million XP only to have to re-farm that same XP? I have tried to put reasoning behind it, but I just don't see it. Any EPIC past life better be so overpowered that we can't refuse to TR.... Then you introduce even more power creep into the game and make it more broken...

    You have given up on the epic destiny system and turned it into a punishment if you follow through with this change. Regardless of the "it takes 1 day in my basement" crowd, some spend months farming that kind of XP out. Some of us were happy to level a destiny every TR, then TR again, level another destiny and so on....


    The only way around this is that if you have a capped destiny and do an Epic TR, you get the Past Life Feat.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm absolutely astonished that Turbine found a way to take the worst most hated grind in the history of any MMO anywhere and make it more horrible.

    Ponderous, fricking ponderous.

    I'm so waiting for one of the fanbois to come out and defend this, it'll be glorious.
    Not to be that fanboi, but if this is what they had come out with a year ago, it actually would have made some sense. In that case the normal progression would have been to cap epic levels, earning an appropriate destiny in the early levels that allowed players to play their way through the later levels more than grind them, then TR. A second option would have been to earn several destinies on their way to cap to start their next life a bit further ahead. The third, worst, option, for those who don't play the whole TR game, would have been to do what they actually gave us at that time and grind out all the destinies in one life.

    Instead they gave everyone the worst option only to pull the carpet out from under them now that, for many, the worst is already done.

    They don't even seem to have the good sense to sweeten the deal by offering, say, a bonus fate point for each destiny that they manage to get bonded. After all, the main point of leveling them all the first time was to gain more fate points. It seems there would be less friction if this change continued that trend. Better yet would be an option to either keep their destinies or trade them in for that for that point and the ED past life when they epic TR.

  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    I am excited to start sharing our plans for the future of the Reincarnation system! Later this year (targeting Update 20) we look forward to introducing two new TR destinations, Epic Destiny True Reincarnation and Iconic True Reincarnation. We’ve got some minor improvements involving Lesser and Greater Reincarnation in store, as well.


    We’ve seen a number of questions and discussions about TR, Iconics, and the TR / end-game gap. For the expansion pack, we are focused on ensuring that the new races are fun and playable, the content is fun and beautiful, and that the enhancement system changes launch as expected! With that, we plan to build out the TR system later in the year. The team is also taking the time to get your early feedback as the designers and engineers lock down feature plans. - How does this fit (or change) your playstyle? Read on for details, then let us know!

    A few goals for Epic Destiny TR:


    • Extend Reincarnation system to allow for 38-point builds
    • Include Epic Destinies in the TR cycle (with Epic Destiny Past Life Feats)
    • Reward you for additional investment in Epic Destinies (with starting ranks after TR)
    • Adjust the XP curve in Epic levels for multi-life TR to avoid the dramatic escalating grind
    • Include Iconics in the TR cycle (with Iconic Past Life Feats)
    • Allow you to TR into and out of Iconics (if you own Iconics)


    How does this system look in practice?

    Heroic True Reincarnation


    • Heroic TR remains primarily unchanged at level 20 or above
    • Grants a Class Past Life Feat that can stack up to 3x
    • Adds 2 build points up to a 36 point build
    • Benefits from the Epic Advantage if you earn Epic Destinies before TR (below)


    Epic Destiny True Reincarnation


    • Can be taken at Level Cap (Level 28 with Shadowfell Conspiracy)
    • Grants an Epic Destiny Past Life Feat
      • Feat based on active, maximized Epic Destiny

    • Karmic Bond -The active ED’s experience is now bonded through each ED True Reincarnation going forward
    • Grants a Class Past Life Feat (same as Heroic TR)
    • You must have a maximized, non-bonded ED to complete this TR
    • Adds 2 build points up to a 38 point build


    Epic Advantage


    With any type of True Reincarnation, all Epic Destiny Levels earned will give you an advantage when you rebuild your character, by converting Destiny Levels into Heroic Ranks. Every level of Epic Destiny you have earned will count toward ranks earned for your next life. (Epic Destinies will not carry over to your next life, except those destinies that you have bonded in previous lives with ED TR.)

    Iconic True Reincarnation

    That’s right; Iconics will have their own form of True Reincarnation, earning their own unique set of past-life feats. You will also be able to TR from any character into an Iconic, which begins at level 15, like normal. Epic Advantage also works on both ends, as well, transferring ED XP earned in your Iconic life, and, if you TR into an Iconic, adding XP on top of your level 15 starting XP.Can be taken at Level Cap (Level 28 with Shadowfell Conspiracy)


    • Grants an Iconic Past Life Feat that can stack up to 3x
    • Adds 2 build points up a 36 point build
    • Earns ranks from Epic Advantage


    What else?

    Here are some changes we’re currently exploring:


    • Reincarnation cooldown timer reduced to 3 days.
    • Reincarnation XP curves smoothed to ease penalties for multiple lives.
    • Lesser Reincarnation will allow a Heroic character to reincarnate as a Champion. Greater Reincarnation will no longer be sold, in favor of an improved Lesser Reincarnation.
    • Iconic characters will be able to Lesser Reincarnate


    We are eager to begin production on this system and appreciate the many players that are eager to see us fulfill the end game potential that the TR system presents. With these changes we are also keeping a long-term view for TR, such as how to expand the Epic Destiny system and continue to support level cap growth in the future.


    Our sincere intentions are to provide these features to you, and the DDO community at large. We invite you response to these details and thank you for your support and fortitude while we roll these changes out in support of this year’s expansion pack. The team is thrilled that DDO continues to grow, innovate, and provide a great D&D experience.

    This system does have a lot of potential. But the biggest issue is that heroic/iconic TR should not mess with epic destiny XP. Ever.

    However, while that would probably calm some of the crowd, You still need to figure out how to deal with the people who'd want to do the epic TR without losing all their benefits. The most fair thing I can think of would be to allow a 1 month period after the release where a person could epic TR and gain ALL the epic past lives and bond EACH destiny. If they miss the 2 month(or whatever time limit, but i'd say 2 months would be the minimum, since they'd have to hit lvl 28 too)

    Next, as for Epic advantage, as others have said, 1 ED level >>> 1 heroic rank, at least at low levels. So, i definitely think it should be more than a 1-1 ratio. However, if you let us apply them whenever we want them, then that'd be great. Don't want to do GH? skip it. Don't want to grind 18-20? Skip it. Of course, then there's one more thing you ahve to worry about. What do you do for the people who don't spend those ranks? Ideally, let us convert them back to ED ranks. So, if 1 ED level= 2.5 free ranks, then let us convert any left over free ranks past lvl 20 into ED ranks. At a 2:1 or even 3:1 ratio. This way, if i'm 28 with 2 maxed out destinies and 2 levels in a third, I'd receive 20 free ranks (8 Epic levels=4 heroic). Let's say I choose to use 10 of them to skip 18-20. Now I have 10 left. I can later choose to put them into a destiny that i don't really want to level, like magister or Shiradi. This would make it easier to max out the useless destinies for the epic TR's.

    Either way, I think the biggest issue is that Heroic/iconic TR should not reset Epic Destiny XP.

  20. #240
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2

    Default It's not bad...

    You need to reward folks with have ground out their epic destinies more before you implement this. However... TR'ing is optional, not required. It's not a nerf unless they take something you have away from you... you decide if you want to TR and "start fresh".

    One more thought:

    There is nothing wrong with the ability to get XP (especially with all the boosts, potions, etc...). I would however suggest the xp be ironed out a bit. Run a couple of reports on which quests are ran least frequently (or failed most frequently), and adjust the xp up on those (and maybe down on some others...) accordingly. If you have to spend 15 minutes getting to a quest (e.g. 3 barrel cove), it should be rewarded accordingly. If Coyle likes to run into now uber sonic traps and die... the xp should go up there as well.

    And all quests where you MUST be flagged to enter (no-red door) should continue to be rewarded handsomely.

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