By all mean some of these changes are interesting but how they have implemented it is god awful. You will not convince me they had no idea they wanted to go this route with epic destinies and they let people max out destinies with no warnings what so ever.
Really for people that have one or 2 maxed destines and not many levels in the other destinies this is meh but okay, for the rest of us we are being screwed over hard and fast.
Basically there's no point in doing any epics right now for destiny levels unless you haven't run any yet. It is basically them wiping all our maxed out destines with no reward. Please do not tell me the extra ranks on TRing are anything of value. One to 11 on a 3rd life is not that hard or particularly long to do.
For the new person it's woohoo I will max out one destiny while leveling to 28, bond that destiny via epic destiny TR and do another life rinse and repeat no harm no foul.
For the player that likes to TR often and juggles their time between TRing and running epics and has been doing this it is a huge huge fail we lose all our maxed destinies for NOTHING as we couldn't bond them in the first place.
It is like changing how completionist works, after the fact that a large amount of the players base has achieved it, and making them lose it by removing previous lives they have done and saying, to bad so sorry regrind them.
Originally Posted by CordovanOriginally Posted by Jendrak
Although, the fact is, compared to how Turbine has systematically and intentionally borked my cleric from Day 1 of MotU all the way through the enhancement pass alpha, this design actually does look pretty good.
Having said that, my cleric has all the Epic Destinies capped out, and if Turbine believes that I would ever ditch that enormous amount of XP to TR under this system, they are absolutely...mistaken.
I do want to thank Turbine, however. I used to play this game a fair amount, and spend money in the process. I still log on for about an hour a day to goof off, but the vast majority of the Turbine related entertainment I now receive is free, obtained simply by reading the forums to see what inane move you guys are planning to make next.
You come to troll, but the simple fact is that Turbine simply has you out gunned. They clearly are capable of trolling their customers at a far higher level than you could ever hope to troll them. Game over (pun intended). Tip your hat, and admit when you are beaten.
The system* currently chases you away from cutting edge and fun content, and into low level eye-bleeding farming because you can't run a typical ee quest on a sorc, geared as a sorc, but in the LD destiny.
*You guys assumed the destiny system in the same way you did TRing, except it's not the same. For a barb life on a primarily caster character, it's not a huge deal. You are what you are from the gate: a barb. You play the entire life out as one.
But for destiny's, you're a split character. Some kind of melee but with fireballs, yet you don't have the DCs or the to hit for up to date content, and you're left scratching your head as you trudge back to lvl 21 quests on your decked out caster and realize that you can't farm for your top gear AND exp at the same time, ever.
bad idea to include ED... no one wants to redo that. you would have to make the reward crazy powerful and hence gamebraking. what feat would tempt someone who has all destinies completed to do this?
tr into an ikconic and then get stuck unable to tr afterwards? more info is needed.
Proud member of Caffeine - we aint stragicially savy, but we get &@#$% done.
Epic Destiny True Reincarnation, version 2.0
- Can be taken at Level Cap (Level 28 with Shadowfell Conspiracy)
- You must have a maximized ED to complete this TR
- Grants an Epic Destiny Past Life Feat
- Feat based on active, maximized Epic Destiny
- Destiny XP is reset to zero for the active, maximized Epic Destiny
- Other Destinies are not affected
- Grants a Class Past Life Feat (same as Heroic TR)
- Adds 2 build points up to a 38 point build
I have four characters who are on their second life: a 24 monk, 25 ranger, 25 rogue, and 15 cleric. All the rest of my characters are first life: 23 bard, 20 barbarian, 21 wizard (22 banked), 25 druid, 20 artificer, 14 fighter, 20 human (12 fighter/7 monk/1 rogue), and 14 half-orc (7 rogue/6 monk/1 fighter).
The monk, rogue, and druid have either 4/1/1 (monk) or 4/2/1 twists. I was working on epic destiny exp on my ranger, but frankly without being in Shiradi the ranger is just not very competitive at 25 and not very much fun. The cleric got TR'd a bit earlier than I would have liked, but I made a promise to a friend to TR her with one of his characters and I kept that promise.
So, if you are going to take away all my epic destiny experience just because I heroic TR, then I am not going to heroic TR and will eventually quit. I like TR'ing once in a while. The "epic advantage" is not much of an advantage because I *like* the low levels. I like running Korthos again once in a while. I also like being at high level and working on epic gear while there. I have been trying to get a second epic midnight greetings for my rogue and have the 43 epic dungeon tokens to prove it.
I've been VIP for the three years I have been playing. I am in the process of saving for a new computer for myself and then I intend to get one for my wife - so she can start playing the game, too. Screw up the TR'ing like you're discussing and that will not happen. I want the ability to TR and start at level one with her. I do not want the "gift" of starting at level 11 just because I was playing before she was.
No way in hell am I going to do any destiny farming on any of my characters if you release this system in the state you are discussing. It was an exceptionally mind-numbingly boring grind the first 3 times. My friend opted for the approach of "do a TR, get an ED or 2 done, then TR again". Even for him, you'll kill TR'ing because that was kind of the icing on the cake for him: eventually get all the destinies done without having spent tons of time at cap like I did.
To sum up: Bad idea. Implement and *I*. WILL. WALK. AWAY.
2. Make all unlocked EDs still unlocked after an Epic TR just with no xp in them.
3. Make all twist points remain after an Epic TR (only gaining additional twist points when you go beyond what you had before)
This means that you can redo the ED you actually want to use on any given ETR and actually remain max level for a while without having to unrealistically regrind a load of twists and/or regrind to traverse the spheres.
By posting this, you basically just told EVERY player in the game, that is working on ED's that they are now wasting their time, and they are going to stop playing. Anytime you implement a change that makes players stop playing, you run the risk they are going to wander off and find something else to do.
Going from 20 to 25 right now only maxes out 1 ED and a good chunk of a second.
YOU ARE GOING TO SCREW OVER EVERYONE THAT ALREADY MAXED IT OUT. Add in a few other choice comments for this being bent over process. The power "gained" from one life to the next is NOTHING compared to how much is going to be lost in this mess.
The only people that this will help are people brand new to epics. Everyone who has been playing epics right now is going to be hurt by this. Who the frack thought of this torturous design? JWB? If so tell him to f'off and take his degree with him. We do NOT need physiological torturer in this game just so he can get his jolly rocks off.
Last edited by Missing_Minds; 06-12-2013 at 08:52 PM.
im near the end of my ED grind. I need 3 more fate points for my last twist. there is no way in Hell I am leveling through other destinies on my barb again. I actually feel like I am working and completely zombified when I grind Rusted Blades. I know I don't have to do it that way, but we all know its the fastest and easiest way to ED grind and I want it over with last week. I dread having to do the same thing on my other characters. I was willing to accept that I would have to do earn it to be able to twist something from another destiny, but you don't see a difference in dps on a barb until you level through Exalted Angel. ED levels should not be lost and not have to re-level again.
In the nicest way possible, I don't believe that the detail of this system was thrashed out by Turbine when ED's were introduced with U14. There might have been some internal speculations on what might happen, but definitely nothing that could be built into the design ahead of time. I just don't give them credit for that kind of foresight, but in fairness, I wouldn't give anyone credit for being able to predict the future that accurately.
The advance notice that we have is that this might come with U20, so we do have some time to provide feedback and people can decide for themselves what they want to do between now and then.
For the people like myself who have put the 21,780,000 XP into capping all destinies it's inevitable that we'll be affected most by taking away the ED XP. There's no way to avoid that without leaving everything as it is right now. Someone suggested in another post that if you have all destines capped then you should be allowed to "bond" 3 destinies when this goes live, presumably gaining 3 Epic Destiny Past Life Feats in the process. Assuming that the XP to cap at 28 is reduced from 6,600,000 XP to something like 4million, this would be effectively saving you 12 million XP? That would seem more than generous to me, and I wouldn't say no to it. It would need to be a go-live transition option only though, otherwise all people would do is get to 28 and run RB a zillion times to cap out all ED's and bond an additional 3 each time.
Overall, I like the proposal, and the option to gain 12 Iconic Past Life Feats, 11 Epic Destiny Past Life Feats and Epic Completionist appeals to me. I just think that they are breaking the Heroic TR option in the process for no good reason and hope they will see sense and fix that part of it.
I really can't see why players can't keep their ED XP when they TR.
When Epic TRing, players can pick one of the maxed EDs to gain benefits from each life.
Players would still have to TR 11 more times to gain the Epic completionist, until more Epic Destinies are added.
Even if max EDs allows players to skip the first half of heroics and Heroic Iconic TRs can skip additional 5 levels, that still levels plenty of grinding for MOST players.
For non-max ED players, they can chip away at the re-grinding of lower levels by leveling up in EDs that they haven't done yet or ignore it completely, just like right now.
Alright i would be willing to restart at 20 since its based mainly on epic destiny stuff as long as the epic quests reset as well. im more willing to take a hit there. iconics im ok with as well. heroic tring should not wipe ed xp imo. that is a real kick in the nuts for them.
fate points should retain. if the abilities are worth it the people might be more willing to make that sacrifice. I think if this system was implemented when destinies came out many would not care. in fact they would love it really. Since a lot of us paid cash for the system we really dont want to see all that time wasted. i would even be in favor of the grandfather option for all maxed ed's to count. sure it will make some toons powerful but it will also make them happy they didnt lose it. i think the system if fine overall but not for the people to lose all 11 maxed destinies.
So if we can do something like above i think people might be more reasonable with the idea.
I see others have already pointed out what I wanted to point out, but I'll do so anyway and hope that it penetrates some Devs' skulls.
By having a system that erases all of our earned Epic Destiny XP, Turbine is essentially telling us that there is no point in playing their current endgame beyond a certain, very limited point.
I'm not into TRing so I've just been playing enough to advance EDs. I've just found out that, in essence, I've just been wasting my time. I should have just TRed repeatedly rather than tried playing the game in near-useless EDs.
But since I don't feel like TRing I guess there is no point at all to playing right now. Anything I advance will just be erased down the line if I feel like TRing.
So really, there's just no point for me to be playing in Epics for now. Great. Thanks a lot Turbine.
From the perspective of a new character, the system sounds great. But that is not where people are coming from. They are coming from the point where they have dumped the equivalent of many TRs worth of time into finishing their Epic Destinies, because they were told that this was a 'once per character' mountain to climb. And now they are being told that if they want to progress that character any further, they are just plain screwed.
I am really hoping that this goes through a great deal of rethinking before it goes live. Either changing the plan entirely, or make it so that when the new system rolls out any destinies that are already maxed are all bonded (but without the rest of the Epic TR benefits) with the ability to do an eTR and gain the benefit of whichever maxed ED you have active. Because as it is right now, this is exactly the kind of disincentive needed to make sure I never reinstall DDO again.
Last edited by ForumAccess; 06-12-2013 at 08:39 PM.
Posted this message in the wrong thread. Reposting it here because I want them to see how I feel about this LAUGHABLE joke of a "plan."
All I can say is I simply LOATH the idea of getting rid of our Epic Destiny experience.
This whole "bonding" destiny is just a load. It seems like a very very VERY cheap way of getting rid of all our hard work and a ROTTEN way of trying to extend the excuse of an "end game."
It's actually a little pitiful, like, I'm seeing red. How much you wanna bet they also take away your "twists of fate" points? Oh but don't worry, the tome points will stay. You'll just have to farm like a madman to get all of your twists back.
How messed up is it to devote time to "twists" as the new Epic Tr, only to release a system that basically wipes all of that work we put in clean? Sure, we'll get a few rewards back, but at the cost of deleting progress. And not in a fun way like normal TR.
I've gotten my Epic Destinies and Fate Points THROUGH multiple TR grinding. I did not just park at 20 and max out every ED. To have all that work cleaned away just so I can partake in the new power creep is just DISGUSTING. Another example of how you release half worked idea's and simply DROP them in favor of some other money grabbing grind mechanic.
How about, instead, you introduce EPIC RANK points JUST like Heroic Ranks. These EPIC RANKS don't do ANYTHING but "build your heroic ranks" like they propose all my HARD EARNED EPIC DESTINY ranks should do.
Just disgusting behavior Turbine after your mess of a pre order. "Oh, our interns can't type so we false advertised for a few hours about bound to account items that are bound to character. Thanks for the hundred dollar pre orders anyway!"
Hope Dev's are reading because I want them to see how seething this could make the community.
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