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  1. #1601

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleFooz View Post
    Next a new daily bonus is being added to quest completions. Every day, a quest will have a bonus added to the base XP value. Playing the quest on any difficulty level qualifies for this daily bonus.
    Nice TY

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Guild renown decay has taken a vacation! Starting today and running through the launch of the Shadowfell Conspiracy expansion on August 19th, guilds can enjoy a decay free summer! During this time, regardless of guild size or guild level, no guilds will be subject to renown decay rates of any type. Gather your guildies, seek out old members, and have fun together this summer!


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Fixed in the patch.:This change reverts Wail to pre-U17 behaviour, which should result in fewer "misses" with Wail.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Sorry, but yeah was dealing with the final touches to U18p2, and did not want to get in the way of the TR talk.
    There will be an update this week on ...drumroll....enhancements and other stuff!
    Seems the good news is coming now.

    Crosses fingers and hopes...

  2. #1602
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Hi.
    Just wanted to touch base with you all again on this. Your feedback during this early stage of development for this system has definitely been helpful. And I’ll reiterate that because we are early in the process, we haven’t locked anything down. Now on to some additional info.

    We have multiple goals with a system like this, such as:
    • Give players the new option of TR-ing at level cap.
    • Give players more things to achieve with a high level TR type character (like epic destiny past life feats and build points).
    • Allow Iconic Hero characters to use the reincarnation system.
    • Optimize the system to help people have a good play experience. (This is a tough one, because there are different opinions on what a “good play experience” is, but this could mean giving incentives to concentrate on different Epic Destinies than were played in the previous life, for example.)
    • And as a less design-oriented but equally important goal: If changes are needed that affect players’ current investment, compensate them for the changes.

    If we can arrive at a place in a given system where we can accomplish all or many of the goals in a way that is good for the game, short term and long term, then that’s a great solution. Many systems, however, are of sufficient complexity to make this a very interesting balancing act. But even with that complexity, it’s still possible to have a good solution. It just takes some time and iteration to get there. This was one of the reasons to start this thread and see what people thought about the new system and the first design proposal.

    So, here’s some more info on a couple of options we are currently considering.

    Option 1: XP “Bank” System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one ED to bond and then transfers all other ED XP into an XP Bank that can be used at any time to level through heroic levels. Example: A character has five maxed ED’s at level 28. They Epic TR, bond one ED, and then get roughly enough XP to take them back to level 20 in their new life and still have, let’s say, 1,000,000 XP left over to use in their following heroic life (to use at whatever level they want). This option could also come with a onetime opportunity to bond multiple ED’s in one TR (to help those invested in the current system to transfer to the new).

    Option 2: Keep Epic Destiny XP System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one maxed out ED that he/she will acquire the Past Life feat for. This Epic Destiny is then flagged. (Starting out, you cannot get more than one copy of each ED’s past life feat.) The character then starts at level 1, but all ED XP is preserved at whatever levels it was at.

    We are considering more than just these two options, but we thought you might like to know a bit about what we are currently thinking. Thanks again.
    Thanks for dropping by.

    I'll take option two, please.
    /sigh

  3. #1603
    Community Member Eliyse's Avatar
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    Default Extra level rewards

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Epic Destiny True Reincarnation is defined as happening at level cap, not at level 28.

    If/when the level cap is increased beyond 28, so will the requirement. Yes, this means it's potentially quicker or easier if you do it sooner.

    That's our current thinking. This doesn't necessarily mean it will go on and on and on to level 999, but the important bit is that it's not tied to level 28.
    Thanks for your update.
    Can I please ask what are your plans to make the levels attractive/rewarding? If this is implemented as you suggest, it puts more obstacles (levels) between a new life and end-reward? How are you planning on making those extra levels fun/rewarding in and of themselves because at present they feel like bland "vanilla" levels without any tasty, classy (as in character-class!) goodness?

  4. #1604

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    I think you are right, the biggest part of this is to Epic Xp.

    I wonder...

    What happens when you allow Epic Xp in Quests to reset?

    This would allow a huge loop hole in the game to be examined.

    What I mean is this, when you hit level cap your quest completion
    counters stop, to prevent Epic Quest from eventually hitting 0 XP.

    Now that this is no longer a threat, it is quite possible that being
    at level cap will no longer protect quest completion counters.
    That protection can be removed.

    This means that farming out Rusted Blades after 12 completions
    would result in zero xp until next week.

    All theory, but...

  5. #1605

    Default Increasing Shadowdancer to level 10

    An example of how the Shadowdance Epic Destiny could be expanded to level 10.
    (And when the level cap goes to 30, it will need to be expanded to level 10
    to grant compete with those ED that must be expaned due to caster levels.)

    Add more points available to level.
    That would be 20 more points.

    There are plenty of places to spend those points.


    As far as the level 6 thru 10 inates, I can fill those in too.

    6 Shadow Training 6: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 seconds) Toggle to generate 40% less melee and ranged threat.

    7 Shadow Training 7 Cooldown for Shrouding Strike/Shot is reduced to 12 seconds

    8 Shadow Training 8: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 1 minute) activate this ability to use Greater Teleport up to 5 times per rest.

    9 Shadow Training 9: Active Ability: (Cooldown: 2 seconds) Toggle to generate 60% less melee and ranged threat.

    10 Greater Shadow Mastery You now have improved evasion

  6. #1606
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what exactly the devs mean by adjusting the xp curves, but I've thought for a while that the heroic TR curve could adjust a bit and be okay. Completionists, please chime in as needed.

    My thought has been to leave the first and second TR as is. Then back it down one percent for each subsequent TR.

    TR1 +5%/level
    TR2 +10%/level
    TR3 +9%/level
    TR4 +8%/level
    ...

    But never go below what a first life character needs.
    /sigh

  7. #1607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    I respect your point of view on this matter.

    It is very possible, that with the level cap rising to 28 that the epic destinies will be raised to level 8,
    requiring you to gain more xp in whichever ones you wish to bind. Would that affect your decision?
    Personally, I think heroic and epic tiers should be kept separate with respect to TR. In this fashion, the gods of DDO can honor their word with respect to heroic TR not affecting ED progress.

    Epic TR is a new animal, and however the devs finally implement it is what we will have. I would prefer to see all ED XP retained somehow, as it is fairly representative of the total amount of epic XP a toon has acquired. I am not happy with the idea of surplus ED XP from an ETR being limited to raising heroic levels at a reduced exchange rate. It is epic XP, and any banking system should apply it 1:1. Also, it should be usable on the epic tier.

    As far as new ED levels, it is only right to have to cap at least one ED before ETR, since it is an ED PL that we are trading for.

    A question in my mind this morning is whether the players and devs mean the same thing when they talked about an ED being capped. Technically, I have only one truly capped ED - Shadowdancer @ 1 point short of level 6. After that, I started switching ED's as soon as level 5 was attained. So, in the sense of earnable fate points and ED bennies, I have lots of capped ED's; in the sense of being unable to further increment an ED's XP, I have only one capped ED. How many of us can say differently?

    Still not quite awake, so I may have left something out.
    http://myaccount.turbine.com

    Je ne suis pas
    DDO Alpha Tester

  8. #1608

    Default Increasing Grandmaster of Flowers to level 10

    An example of how the Grandmaster of Flowers Epic Destiny could be expanded to level 10.
    (And when the level cap goes to 30, it will need to be expanded to level 10
    to grant compete with those ED that must be expaned due to caster levels.)

    Add more points available to level.
    That would be 20 more points.

    There are plenty of places to spend those points.


    As far as the level 6 thru 10 inates, I can fill those in too.

    6 Focused Mind: Passive Bonus: Gain +2 to the DC of your tactical feats.

    7 Cooldown for Wholeness of Spirit is reduced to 2 and a half minutes. Cost 30ki.

    8 The Path to Enlightenment: Passive Bonus: +30 Ki and +4 Concentration. Gain +1 passive ki regeneration.

    9 Greater Hail of Blows: Passive Bonus: +3% chance to doublestrike on melee attacks.

    10 Harmony in all things +1 passive ki regeneration, +9 stacking spell resistance, and +1 to the DC of your tactical feats

  9. #1609

    Default Increasing Fury of the Wild to level 10

    An example of how the Fury of the Wild Epic Destiny could be expanded to level 10.
    (And when the level cap goes to 30, it will need to be expanded to level 10
    to grant compete with those ED that must be expaned due to caster levels.)

    Add more points available to level.
    That would be 20 more points.

    There are plenty of places to spend those points.


    As far as the level 6 thru 10 inates, I can fill those in too.

    6 Brawn III: (Passive) Gain an additional 50 maximum HP (+150 total).

    7 Fast Healing II: Passive Bonus: Add +4d20 HP to whatever your
    Fast Healing ED ability is.

    8 Adrenaline Reserves I: Passive Portion: Gain +1 Adrenaline uses per rest (5 total).

    9 Brawn IV: (Passive) Gain an additional 50 maximum HP (+200 total).

    10 Adrenaline Reserves II: Passive Portion: Gain +1 Adrenaline uses per rest (6 total).

  10. #1610
    Community Member Entelech's Avatar
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    The big sticking point here that I see is having to re-grind vast numbers of Epic Destinies, especially the ones that are painful and worthless to your build, in order to take advantage of Epic TR.

    The solution I see is to put two more Epic Destiny Tools in the DDO store. One will Bond a maxed-out Epic Destiny and another will Unbond one.

    This will allow players to make decisions like "Well, the Magister Epic Feat is worthless to me, and by all that is holy I will go insane if I have to farm out that wretched destiny again for the Twist points."

    or...

    "Hmm, I am enough of a masochist to want to be a Epic Completionist. I bonded Magister for my first six Epic TR's, and now it's time to unbond it, Epic TR, and get the feat crossed off my list."

    Obviously, you'd only get Heroic Ranks for the ED levels that actually got erased.

    This would provide additional revenue for Turbine AND make the new Epic TR system less egregiously player-unfriendly.
    Give a man a fish, and he demands two more tomorrow.
    Teach a man to fish, and he'll leave to find somebody who'll just give him a fish.
    Beat him unconscious with the fish, and it's comedy.

  11. #1611

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Still not quite awake, so I may have left something out.
    Nods solemnly...


    That is the question that comes to my mind.

    And I ask all these questions hoping the Devs will think about them.

    Will the Devs allow the power gamers some super quick ETR while
    the Epic Destinies are at level 5 and the level cap is at 28,
    while the rest of the gaming world is expected to earn most of
    their ETR past lives with the level cap at 30 (in 2 years time)
    and the ED levels at 10 (in one years time)?

    Is that fair to everyone else?

    Shrugs, whatever, Fawngate obviously have little to fear,
    she is going to do whatever she pleases.

    All this (perhaps obnoxious) posting of mine is concern for others.

  12. #1612

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    Well, I worked thru all increases of EDs to level 10,
    and posted my concepts of past life feats.

    Please feel free to copy/change/alter/whatever, they are there.

    Good Luck...

  13. #1613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Nods solemnly...


    That is the question that comes to my mind.

    And I ask all these questions hoping the Devs will think about them.

    Will the Devs allow the power gamers some super quick ETR while
    the Epic Destinies are at level 5 and the level cap is at 28,
    while the rest of the gaming world is expected to earn most of
    their ETR past lives with the level cap at 30 (in 2 years time)
    and the ED levels at 10 (in one years time)?

    Is that fair to everyone else?

    Shrugs, whatever, Fawngate obviously have little to fear,
    she is going to do whatever she pleases.

    All this (perhaps obnoxious) posting of mine is concern for others.
    Conversely, would it be fair to punish those who show initiative by holding them back with the rest of the class?

    Conditions change, in the game and in life. You can avail yourself of an opportunity or not. It is all a matter of choice.

    So, I say, "YES, it is fair." It is truly fair for someone to benefit from being in the right place at the right time.

    After all, you don't hear me sniveling about not having a 'Founder' label, do you?
    http://myaccount.turbine.com

    Je ne suis pas
    DDO Alpha Tester

  14. #1614
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    I for one am severely disappointed in the direction these discussions are going. This thread has been dominated by the posts of a few "uber competitionists" who represent .0001% of the player base, and yet are posting 5 times to everyone else s one to bury other suggestions under their own.


    They like the current TR grind, and don't see it as such. But I can guarantee you that the VAST MAJORITY of the player base sees the current TR system as a grind, and do NOT enjoy it.


    I would like to know how the grind is being reduced to make TR and Epic TR more excessable to people who cant devote the 30+ hours of playtime a week that these others can? How is the grind being reduced? Because adding this system adds yet another grind to the game. An optional grind, but since there are no real other "options" to increase our characters power its not much of an "option" is it?
    You are correct about the Elite Players dominating the thread. However it only makes sense since, as you say, they spend a lot of time on the game. Hopefully good ideas will still rise to the surface.

    As for the grind being reduced, this system is being added WITH THE EXPRESS PURPOSE of creating more grind. Unlike other MMOs, one of DDO's main source of content is just redoing the old content. And they want to encourage players to redo MORE of the old content - the Epic level content and the Epic Destinies.

  15. #1615
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Here's a whacky idea for epic tring:

    1) Disconnect fate points from destinies altogether. Give fate point xp its own bar, like epic levels and destinies have their own bars. So purple epic level bar, yellow destiny bar, and green fate xp bar.

    2) All unbonded destiny xp is wiped each epic tr, but fate xp is permanent, never to be wiped by any means.

    3) You can only earn xp into 1 bar at a time. From level 20-28, you only earn epic level xp. Once (and not until) you max your epic level, you start earning destiny xp in your active destiny. Once (and not until) that destiny is maxed you start earning xp in your fate xp bar. If you switch your active destiny to an unmaxed destiny, you stop earning fate xp and start earning destiny xp for that destiny.

    4) Epic tr would then require a) capping your epic levels, and b) capping at least one destiny. No xp is ever "wasted" because every xp you earn always goes into 1 of the 3 bars until you have the maximum fate points, which would be tens of millions of xp. Grinding out twists in off-destinies would become a tiny, trivial part of fate point grinding because you'd only have to do off destinies long enough to unlock the actual abilities you wanted to twist in.
    We already don't have enough content from 20-28 for gaining EDs. I can't see having to grind the content even more for separate leveling and Fate points.

  16. #1616
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Here's a whacky idea for epic tring:

    1) Disconnect fate points from destinies altogether. Give fate point xp its own bar, like epic levels and destinies have their own bars. So purple epic level bar, yellow destiny bar, and green fate xp bar.

    2) All unbonded destiny xp is wiped each epic tr, but fate xp is permanent, never to be wiped by any means.

    3) You can only earn xp into 1 bar at a time. From level 20-28, you only earn epic level xp. Once (and not until) you max your epic level, you start earning destiny xp in your active destiny. Once (and not until) that destiny is maxed you start earning xp in your fate xp bar. If you switch your active destiny to an unmaxed destiny, you stop earning fate xp and start earning destiny xp for that destiny.

    4) Epic tr would then require a) capping your epic levels, and b) capping at least one destiny. No xp is ever "wasted" because every xp you earn always goes into 1 of the 3 bars until you have the maximum fate points, which would be tens of millions of xp. Grinding out twists in off-destinies would become a tiny, trivial part of fate point grinding because you'd only have to do off destinies long enough to unlock the actual abilities you wanted to twist in.
    This sounds reasonable, in theory, but this type of 'bars upon bars upon really big bars' type of Alternate Advancement has already been the death knell of other MMOs.

  17. #1617
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    TLR

    I tried, really tried, but just could not read past about page 74, due in part to excessive length, due in part to excessive posting (Silverleaf, looking at you here) and due in part to excessive repetition... there just wasn't much new to read.

    And here's my take on the last 20 or so pages...

    STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS!

    We do NOT know that level will go to 30.
    We do NOT know that ED levels will go to 10 (and god I hope not).
    We do NOT know what they have planned as rewards, and recommending 500 options (most of which are very broken... I mean, twisting level 6 abilities? Seriously?) is probably not helpful or productive since you are effectively throwing rocks in the ocean hoping to hit a fish.

    Please stay focused on the issue at hand and the information we have. Rewards are not even part of the discussion from the dev side yet (with the exception of up-front compensation for losing ED XP).

    For now PLEASE stay focused on the process rather than getting lost in elements that haven't even been offered yet from Turbine.

    Personally I prefer option 2 unless there is a mass 1-time offering for bonding on option 1 (and even then, I think this option penalizes new folks unnecessarily).

    Quote Originally Posted by Gratch View Post
    Okay... enough words on the devs shaky thoughts on TR'ing redo. Hopefully they can take our input and give us a more concrete and less wipes it all away beta-strawman in a few weeks that will also have their ideas on carrots for ED TR'ing.


    Now devs... back to enhancement redos and figuring out how end game epic elite isn't just a ton of CR90 wolves and humans.
    "Why yes I'm just a peon archer in this quest but I do have 30 THOUSAND hit points. How am I not epic?"

  18. #1618
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inoukchuk View Post
    TLR

    I tried, really tried, but just could not read past about page 74, due in part to excessive length, due in part to excessive posting (Silverleaf, looking at you here) and due in part to excessive repetition... there just wasn't much new to read.

    And here's my take on the last 20 or so pages...

    STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS!

    We do NOT know that level will go to 30.
    We do NOT know that ED levels will go to 10 (and god I hope not).
    We do NOT know what they have planned as rewards, and recommending 500 options (most of which are very broken... I mean, twisting level 6 abilities? Seriously?) is probably not helpful or productive since you are effectively throwing rocks in the ocean hoping to hit a fish.

    Please stay focused on the issue at hand and the information we have. Rewards are not even part of the discussion from the dev side yet (with the exception of up-front compensation for losing ED XP).

    For now PLEASE stay focused on the process rather than getting lost in elements that haven't even been offered yet from Turbine.

    Personally I prefer option 2 unless there is a mass 1-time offering for bonding on option 1 (and even then, I think this option penalizes new folks unnecessarily).
    Please don't read but make assumptions and then tell people to not make assumptions!

    Seriously though, it was asked that we provide feedback... and yes even on the rewards, this opens up the entire discussion to the entirety of the issues with regards to all manner of TRing, heroic, epic or otherwise.

  19. #1619
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    Please don't read but make assumptions and then tell people to not make assumptions!

    Seriously though, it was asked that we provide feedback... and yes even on the rewards, this opens up the entire discussion to the entirety of the issues with regards to all manner of TRing, heroic, epic or otherwise.
    He has a point though, some of this feedback is going way too far in the future, Turbine is confused enough as it is and we really should be taking it one step at a time.

    Peeps are wasting posts and confusing the real issues that are presently under discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  20. #1620
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    He has a point though, some of this feedback is going way too far in the future, Turbine is confused enough as it is and we really should be taking it one step at a time.

    Peeps are wasting posts and confusing the real issues that are presently under discussion.
    Yeah I get it, it has veered off a bit, hence the smiley face but at 82 pages, there is not much to be said that hasn't been said during the initial reactions. I tried making a cleaner thread allowing for dev feedback so that it wouldn't get lost in this tome but I failed miserably at convincing anyone to bump it. (I take full responsibility for that, my wording didn't come out right I don't think).

    After the first barrage of pages I kind of just dipped in and dipped out but I'm pretty sure that the devs are painfully aware that the system proposed as a whole is appealing enough to everyone save the whole "Remember all of that time you wasted unlocking spheres, leveling twists and acquiring fate points? Well it was pretty much all for not... how 'bout them apples" thing.

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