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  1. #1501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Your lack of desire to coordinate a heroic class with a desired ED in no way invalidates my assertion.

    However, it does serve to make my point:
    Those who grind through an "off" destiny are not forced to do so; they choose to do so.
    I don't see how choosing to grind through 20 heroic levels in a class one may not have any interest in simply to be in a class that is more likely to be able to take advantage of whatever destiny is next in line on the map is in any way superior to just grinding out the destiny in the class one is already playing. Having another option that is just as bad or worse in no way makes a bad situation somehow good.

    That's like saying those that have 3 toes cut off are not forced to do so, they choose to do so rather than simply having the whole leg amputated.

  2. #1502
    Community Member Cableman's Avatar
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    I think the problem revolves around sacrifice and instant gratification. No one wants their previous gaming invalidated. Under any of the proposed systems, there is very little sacrifice and a fairly quick return to previous level of power. Grind is often brought up, people create their own grind, if you find it not fun and a grind, why do it? The only fair system to all parties is one that mirrors the current system. After all, it has always been stated that TR is optional.

    PS. What happens to all the xp now when you are at cap with max destinies?
    Bjriand The Great 15/3/2 Warlock/Paladin/Cleric Triple Heroic / Epic / Iconic Completionist - 95 Total lives
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  3. #1503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    If the devs have not watched this yet, please do:

    http://www.ddocast.com/2013/06/ddocast-289/
    Surely, It's better than Optional #1, but I don't agree this still. I gonna prefer Optional #2. I don't want waste my XP of EDs all still even if I don't lost any fate points. It has still some problems.

    • You should make ED 60 total levels perhaps if new ED is added in the future (to get fate points) - nobody said about this.
    • You should still make XP again for ToF swap abilities.
    • We DON'T KNOW what'd be changed Epic Destiny in the future. Reseting XP of ED would make a critical problem for us in the future.



    I prefer the selective return system I wrote...

    • Your claimed ED WILL BE RESET to give you Epic Past Life, and to be bonded.
    • You can select which EDs you'll burn, or deposit your ED XP to XP bank. (to give you xp at heroic.) XP of selected EDs will be reset, but It'll give you bonus XP at heroic, whatever it's burning XP or depositing XP to XP Bank.
    • By this way, You have other choice that any ED is NOT SELECTED to burn/deposit if you don't want reset ED XP. This results you won't get any beneficial heroic bonus XP by ED XP reset.
    • your claimed ED for Epic TR will not grant you any beneficial by XP reset, but will grant you Epic Past Life Feat.
    Last edited by Targal; 06-19-2013 at 07:15 AM.

  4. #1504

    Default


    That means creating another 5x4x11, so up to 220 more ED enhancements? Why would we want to create that amount of additional work for the development team on top of the work that's just been done, or is currently being done, to the new enhancements? I'd rather see them direct that effort into making sure that every class has 3 worthwhile prestige trees to choose from.

    It would be easy to simply add more points to spend in the current trees.

    That is adding 4 + 4 + 4 +4 +4 =20 more points to spend.
    I can easily find places to spend 20 points on the current trees

    There is the problem of adding inates, that would take development time,
    and all of this is probably best added as Xpack 2014.


    Lets's not create any additional work for the new Epic TR proposals and just keep things simple and easy to deliver. I'd rather see them make sure that every class has at least 3 worthwhile prestige trees, and that they add new Epic Destinies for Cleric and Artificer to give us the full 13. I'd even like them to add Epic Destinies for the new 4 Iconic classes, but again that's further down the road. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here.

    I agree with your vision of the future, but these proposals all must take in account
    that the level cap will increase and the epic destines look like ghost towns at the moment,
    at least to me.

    Thank you for your comments on the other suggestions that I made that were
    definitely off base.

  5. #1505
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    Default dont feel like quoting another post

    Anyway this is to deadlock. Simply put you are going on the assumption that everyone wants to zerg quests, everyone is a veteran, and that everyone wants to run stuff they don't like, or repeat stuff that is high xp/min. Running stuff that you don't actually care for because you need that xp is a grind, the other option repeating stuff over and over is a grind. I personally don't exclude new people from my groups I actually take the time to help them. OMG someone who has done fourty lives or more does that!!!!! Yesi have done at least that many, probably more but after having the 14th toon hit life number 7 or above I stopped counting and that was a while back. Things being based on what someeone who knows it inside and out is silly to be honest. Things being based on what is actually the majority and not people who have done it a million times is way more reasonable. As for me I don't care to zerg and worry about how fast I finish the quest anymore. I personally feel that either the xp curve needs a big alteration, or the quest xp does. Agree or disagree I don't really care either way. What you can do and what a few power gamers does is not the norm and never will be. Although I can do a life per week I usually take about 2 now since I have slowed down to help people, and actually try to enjoy myself now. The problem I was addressing has nothing to do with power gamers at all it is something that effects the majority, not me. Xp stones btw aren't actually doing a life they are doing half or less of it since the xp you get from them scales with xp shrines, pots and anything else that boosts xp. Last but definitely not least, elite bravery bonus vets/TR only that is one of the major reasons why new players don't stick around. How often do you see that in the lfms? I know that on the 2 servers I play on regularly there are waaaay more of those lfms than anyone welcome. In short power gamer and grinders you are actually a minority. Anything that promotes the whole vets TR only and exclusion of new people is bad for the game in general. Anything that a majority feel is too much grinding of stuff either they don't want to play over and over or repeating the same quest 10 times to level is also not good for the game as a whole. Also having it so people are on varying xp curves, and cant actually run the same stuff together without one getting more levels out of it than the other is bad for the game. I don't mind the grind, some others don't either we are really the minority any way you go about it. Just because you and I and some others can and don't mind it doesn't mean that its good. I have seen many many people quit because of the TR system. Anything that makes people who would otherwise enjoy the game quit is not good for the game as a whole.

  6. #1506

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    Quote Originally Posted by Targal View Post
    Surely, It's better than Optional #1, but I don't agree this still. I gonna prefer Optional #2.
    Option 2 seems straightforward and inviting to me too.

    There is so much to process and read right now...

  7. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I don't see how choosing to grind through 20 heroic levels in a class one may not have any interest in simply to be in a class that is more likely to be able to take advantage of whatever destiny is next in line on the map is in any way superior to just grinding out the destiny in the class one is already playing. Having another option that is just as bad or worse in no way makes a bad situation somehow good.

    That's like saying those that have 3 toes cut off are not forced to do so, they choose to do so rather than simply having the whole leg amputated.
    And this relates to Option 1 how?
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  8. #1508
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    Default My 2cents

    Hi, im new to the forum...and playing ddo less then 3 years, not a casual player an not one of the uber hardcore elitist around.
    May main is on is 8th life, I enjoy power play and builds variety..so i prefer trring instead of endagame.

    heres how i think epic tr should work

    goals (for turbine):
    - make ppl re-play endgame like they replay heroic levels
    - create a new form of 'never ending grind' to be moderately lessened by acquiring shop potions, tomes etc...
    - limit days of developers
    - dont anger player base

    goals (for players):
    - moar powa
    - no hard grinded xp loss

    so, i will leave heroic TR untouched, BUT make an epic TR that will seduce a large part of the player base, here my suggestion

    1- epic tr at cap (28)
    2- gain an heroic past life feat (up to 3 per class)
    3- gain an active destiny feat (up to 3 per destiny)
    4- +2 build points up to 38 (or 40)
    5- reset an unbonded capped active destiny (if the player is on an unbonded capped destiny) for gaining an epic advantage. Epic advantage is a bonus to eroic xp gained that stacks with everything (easy peasy) decide the value, 5% heroic xp bonus seems a good trade for me. That will do player who epic TR dont integrally skip part of content when in a TR life, but is still good to achieve expecially if u bond multiple destinies up to a 55% xp extra bonus
    6- make an epic completionist feat purchasable at level 21+ worth the grind
    (leave fate points untouched..relevelling a resetted destinies dont give any fate point)

    win win

    and excuse my poor english
    Last edited by Njohrd; 06-19-2013 at 07:36 AM.

  9. #1509
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    Option 2 does seem very inviting to me on the toons I have a lot of destinies. It is also not bad for the ones I have just a few destinies done with.

    On the other hand the ones I don't have a lot of destiny work done on at the moment option 1 seems really nice. I could burn the few epic destinies I already have done, then get to level back up to 20 faster. Once I got to 20 I would actually get about the same amount done again as I level to 28. Then bond another and have more xp to make it easier to get back up to 20 to work on them again.

    Although each solution has its merits, which would be better for the game as a whole?

    It would be nice to have an in game poll, maybe once the ideas have been narrowed down to 2-3 actual possibilities. Maybe doing an optional vote in the game. I bet that you would get a much clearer idea of what the community actually wants than you will ever get from a forum thread. Face it the forums is probably less than 1% of the game population.

    Also the forums is populated mostly by people who actually fit into the smallest portion of the community as a whole.

  10. #1510

    Default How to increase exalted angel to level 10

    An example of how the Angel Epic Destiny could be expanded to level 10.
    (And when the level cap goes to 30, it will need to be expanded to level 10
    to grant divine caster level 30.)

    Add more points available to level.
    That would be 20 more points.

    My character can spend hers on the following:
    5 more points gaining endless faith fully taken
    12 more points gaining +6 wisdom
    1 more point in blood and radiance
    2 more points for Be at Peace

    Oh dear, already out of point again, and I still have
    not taken the fluff stuff.


    As far as the level 6 thru 10 inates, I can fill those in too.

    6 Undead under the effect of your judgement take your character level in light damage every 4 seconds.
    7 Reborn in Light cooldown is reduced to 20 minutes.
    8 Greater Angelic presence: Active Ability: (Cooldown 10 seconds) Toggle While above 50% Health you have a +4 sacred bonus to Charisma, and all enemies have a -4 penalty to attack rolls. This penalty counts as a Fear effect and stacks with Angel of Vengeance aura
    9 Greater Angelic presence grants you a +4 bonus to attack damage
    10 Reborn in Light cooldown is reduced to 10 minutes.


    So, it can be done, and fairly quickly.
    X Pack 2014?

    And if so, how will that impact all these proposals?
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 06-19-2013 at 07:57 AM.

  11. #1511

    Default How to increase Draconic Incarnation to level 10

    How to increase Draconic Incarnation to level 10
    An example of how the Draconic Incarnation Destiny could be expanded to level 10.
    (And when the level cap goes to 30, it will need to be expanded to level 10
    to grant caster level 30.)

    Add more points available to level.
    That would be 20 more points.

    {I'm not in this destiny atm, but I assure you there is plenty more to spend
    points on here.}

    Rewrite
    Draconic Bloodline I: Passive Bonus: +50 SP and +1 to wizard, sorcerer, bard and artificer caster levels if have any levels in the class.
    And
    Arcane study I: Passive Bonus: +50 SP and +1 to wizard, sorcerer, bard and artificer caster levels if have any levels in the class.
    To read more like
    Celestial destiny: Passive Bonus: Gain 50 sp. Each additional level of Exalted Angel grants 50 sp and +1 to Cleric, Paladin and Favored Soul caster levels.
    Unfortunately that means adding some inates in 2 thru 5, but hey since they seem to be
    using shirda instead that might be good.

    As far as the level 6 thru 10 inates, I can fill those in too.

    6 Draconic Fury is increased to 30 Seconds
    7 Draconic Fury is increased to 40 Seconds
    8 Draconic Fury is increased to 50 Seconds
    9 Draconic Fury is increased to 60 Seconds
    10 Barrier of Scales cooldown is reduced to one minute.



    This deal with the serious problem that the Draconic Epic Moment
    is almost never able to be activated.

    But since I destroyed inates 2 thru 5, I got to redo them.
    They just did not flow with the other caster destinies.

    So here we go:

    2 Draconic Perception lore: Passive Bonus: +2 spot and +2 reflex
    3 +1 stacking spell pen
    4 Dragonhide Lore Passive Bonus: +2 natural armor and +2 fortitude saves.
    5 +1 stacking spell pen
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 06-19-2013 at 09:01 AM.

  12. #1512

    Default How to increase Magister to level 10

    How to increase Magister to level 10
    An example of how the Magister Destiny could be expanded to level 10.
    (And when the level cap goes to 30, it will need to be expanded to level 10
    to grant caster level 30.)

    Add more points available to level.
    That would be 20 more points.

    {I'm not in this destiny atm, but I assure you there is plenty more to spend
    points on here.}


    As far as the level 6 thru 10 inates, I can fill those in too.

    Rewrite
    Draconic Bloodline I: Passive Bonus: +50 SP and +1 to wizard, sorcerer, bard and artificer caster levels if have any levels in the class.
    And
    Arcane study I: Passive Bonus: +50 SP and +1 to wizard, sorcerer, bard and artificer caster levels if have any levels in the class.
    To read more like
    Celestial destiny: Passive Bonus: Gain 50 sp. Each additional level of Exalted Angel grants 50 sp and +1 to Cleric, Paladin and Favored Soul caster levels.
    Unfortunately that means adding some inates in 2 thru 5, but hey since they seem to be
    using shirda instead that might be good.

    6 Arcane Spell Surge is increased to 30 Seconds
    7 Arcane Spell Surge is increased to 40 Seconds
    8 Arcane Spell Surge is increased to 50 Seconds
    9 Arcane Spell Surge is increased to 60 Seconds
    10 Nulmagic Aura is increased to 20 Seconds.


    But since I destroyed inates 2 thru 5, I got to redo them.
    They just did not flow with the other caster destinies.

    So here we go:

    2 Impregnable Mind Lore: Passive Bonus: +2 concentration, +2 will
    3 +1 stacking spell pen
    4 Unearthly Reactions Lore: Passive Bonus: +2 dodge, +2 reflex.
    5 +1 stacking spell pen
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 06-19-2013 at 09:13 AM.

  13. #1513

    Default Suggestion for auto grant past life Primal Avatar

    Cocoon is probably the favorite twist.

    Grant as auto twist or something therein.

  14. #1514
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    So I'm afraid grind is 100% optional. You might be missing an adventure pack but that's something you can fix.
    Thank you for pointing this out and you are 100% correct.

    The grind for TR is optional. The "run quests over and over again" argument is old and just plain WRONG.

  15. #1515
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Cocoon is probably the favorite twist.

    Grant as auto twist or something therein.
    WOW . . . that would be awesome. Everyone could make a self-healing melee with this as an option.

  16. #1516
    Uber Uber Completionist
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sir_smacks_alot View Post
    <snip>
    Sorry man, not going to edit that to make it readable to me. 40 lives is only on my main, but anyway, that's not relevant, nobody is suggesting that more lives automatically makes you a better player than someone with less, or entitles you to an opinion where others haven't earned one. Not forgetting of course that those of us who have been playing for 6 or 7 years back when TRing wasn't an option would cap and delete characters because that was the only option.

    I'm not really sure what the rest of your post is saying, at a quick scan it sounds angry and that experienced players don't do enough for new players.

    I can only speak for myself, I don't pretend to speak for the majority of the players, but if you feel that your position speaks for them then more power to your elbow.

  17. #1517

    Default How to Increase Primal Avitar to level 10

    An example of how the Pimal Avatar Epic Destiny could be expanded to level 10.
    (And when the level cap goes to 30, it will need to be expanded to level 10
    to grant caster level 30.)

    Add more points available to level.
    That would be 20 more points.

    There are plenty of places to spend those points.

    As far as the level 6 thru 10 inates, I can fill those in too.

    6 Beloved among Spirits: Passive Bonus: +20 HP Spirit decays every 20 seconds instead of every 15 seconds.
    7 Gain a bonus extra Friend of nature.
    8 Cherished among Spirits: Passive Bonus: +20 HP Spirit decays every 25 seconds instead of every 20 seconds.
    9 Natural Shielding also grants the feat augment summoning to those it applies to.
    10 Greater Strength of Spirit: When you hit with a melee attack, or cast a spell on an ally, or cast an offensive spell on an enemy, you gain 1 Spirit. Each of these three categories triggers only once every two seconds instead of once every three seconds.


    So, it can be done, and fairly quickly.
    X Pack 2014?

  18. #1518

    Default Increasing Fatesinger to level 10

    An example of how the Fatesinger Epic Destiny could be expanded to level 10.
    (And when the level cap goes to 30, it will need to be expanded to level 10
    to grant caster level 30.)

    Add more points available to level.
    That would be 20 more points.

    There are plenty of places to spend those points.

    As far as the level 6 thru 10 inates, I can fill those in too.

    6 Legendary Songmaster I: Gain +1 to your effective Arcane caster level
    Gain the spell like ability Legendary Preformance : The spell Greater Shout but
    Emits an ear-splitting yell that deafens and deals 1d4 sonic damage per caster level
    and dazes the targets in its path for 6 seconds. A successful Fortitude save halves the damage and negates the Daze effect.

    7 Harmonic Resonance 2: (Passive) Your melee, missile, and unarmed attacks now have a 20% chance per hit of building a stacking resonance in your enemies instead of 10%. Gain +1 to your effective Arcane caster level

    8 Glitter of Fame 2: (Passive) Gain +1 to your effective Arcane caster level, +1 Charisma, +1 Constitution and a +1 to hit.

    9 Intoxicating Presence 2: (Passive) Gain +1 to your effective Arcane caster level and a +1 to hit. Special Effect: As long as you are above 10% Health, enemies that strike you have a 10% chance (instead of 5%) of becoming Fascinated for 12 seconds, with no saving throw.

    10 Legendary Songmaster 2: Gain +1 to your effective Arcane caster level
    The spell like ability Legendary Preformance now deals 1d6 sonic damage per caster level.

  19. #1519

    Default Increasing Shiradi Champion to Level 10

    An example of how the Shiradi Champion Epic Destiny could be expanded to level 10.
    (And when the level cap goes to 30, it will need to be expanded to level 10
    to grant caster level 30.)

    Add more points available to level.
    That would be 20 more points.

    There are plenty of places to spend those points.


    As far as the level 6 thru 10 inates, I can fill those in too.

    6 Greater Fey Favor: Each time you roll a 19 to 20 with ranged and thrown attacks you gain Fey Favor. You have 10% chance to gain fey favor each time you cast an offensive spell. Favor of the fey grants +1 Luck bonus to Ranged Attacks and +1 diplomacy. This stacks up to 10 times.

    7 Greater Fey Visions 1: Passive Bonus: +1 ranged damage, +5 spellpower, +5 search.

    8 Greater Fey Visions 2: Passive Bonus: +1 ranged damage, +5 spellpower, +5 search.

    9 Greater Fey Visions 3: Passive Bonus: +1 ranged damage, +5 spellpower, +5 search.

    10 Superior Fey Favor: Each time you roll a critical hit with ranged and thrown attacks you gain Fey Favor. You have 10% chance to gain fey favor each time you cast an offensive spell. Favor of the fey grants +1 Luck bonus to Ranged Attacks and +1 Luck bonus to Ranged damage and +1 diplomacy. This stacks up to 10 times.

  20. #1520

    Default Increasing Unyielding Sentinel to level 10

    An example of how the Unyielding Sentinel Epic Destiny could be expanded to level 10.
    (And when the level cap goes to 30, it will need to be expanded to level 10
    to grant caster level 30.)

    Add more points available to level.
    That would be 20 more points.

    There are plenty of places to spend those points.


    As far as the level 6 thru 10 inates, I can fill those in too.

    6 Vigor of battle 2: Sentinel stance: grants +20% healing amp instead of 10% ; you gain +50 hit points

    7 Hardened Unbreakable: Unbreakable Sentinel Stance now grants DR 15/--

    8 Rock Strength you gain +10 physical resistance and +50 hit points

    9 Rock Strength 2: +10 sacred bonus to natural armor

    10 Stand Against the Tide 2: : Passive Bonus: additional +2 Attack.
    Sentinel Stance: (Cooldown 20 seconds) +1 melee damage, 20% threat generation, 5% fort, +1 reflex/fort/will saves. These bonuses increases while standing still, up to 6 times instead of 4.

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