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  1. #1441
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    Quote Originally Posted by fourrumtest View Post
    don't wipe my epic xp on a heroic tr.

    don't wipe my heroic xp on an epic tr.

    if i ever epic tr wipe the xp from the one destiny i bond.

    maybe make endgame fun and rewarding instead of making tr more punishing?
    This has a nice simplicity to it.

    *Limit epic TR to epic levels, restart at 20 with no class change.

    *Heroic TR stays as it is.

    *Have Kruz offer option to 'chain TR' epic and heroic (include HTR and ETR in epic heart)
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  2. #1442
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    My biggest concern with epic TR is exactly the time I invested into getting all ED's to the highest level (not just mine, i have a friend with 3 chars with lvl 5 on all destinies).

    Thus, I post it as another goal/demand/wish for the new system - appropriately reward for already invested time, so that your way to "ultimate power" doesn't waste steps you took so far


    How to avoid dealing with the problem of "too much invested to go through that all over again"? As with many other problem, you can approach it like this: split the problem into little sub-problems until everything is solvable on its level. So, instead of "reset all ED xp" we could have something like, "Reset ED sphere", or, "For every ED sphere you capped, you can pick one destiny to get Epic TR benefit from". This way, instead of "give up all your ED xp" players see: "give up a fraction of your ED xp". Also, grouping destinies by spheres for purpose of Epic TR seems to be most elegant solution - as destinies in single sphere have a lot in common.

    Separating Destiny reset/bonding/benefits also sounds like a nice concept. In a perfect solution, you want least "wasteful" as possible - so, as you accomplish further and further lives, you should be also progressing on "Epic Destiny" track. If you're already completionist and don't plan on further heroic TRs, you should be able to gain Epic TR benefits without going through lower levels again.


    I'd also like to re-state that 38pt build isn't good enough to reward for burning level 28 char. However, bonus Ability point of choice, or perhaps two, would do the trick.


    Describing this in terms of math: In multidimensional space of character progress from zero to point of "desired power", where we have one axis for Heroic TR, one axis for epic destinies, and one for the gear. Now, with addition of epic TR, we're perhaps adding another axis for Epic TR, or we're perhaps just shifting the point of "desired power" further away from players on current axes. And our dearest and best developers are responsible to make sure people don't feel "pushed back" on some axis or that people don't think "Desired power" got too far away to pursue, regardless of their current position at the moment of launch of new system. but, hey, math only complicates problems! :P to give an example, one of my melee characters is currently at the point of
    (4.5 life, 6 destinies maxed, eSoS)
    where desired would be
    (18 lives [completionist + 2 more pally for hjamp + 2 more barb for hp + final build], 11 destinies maxed, eSoS + Hewer + set of +5 tomes).
    Now, if each Epic TR resets all destinies, I would feel like pushed back to
    (4.5, 1, eSoS).
    Being pushed back is bad, mkay? If however, getting full Epic TR power would seem like
    (30, 60, *),
    I'd give up and ignore the Epic TR altogether, or just Epic TR once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
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  3. #1443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Hi.
    Just wanted to touch base with you all again on this. Your feedback during this early stage of development for this system has definitely been helpful. And I’ll reiterate that because we are early in the process, we haven’t locked anything down. Now on to some additional info.

    We have multiple goals with a system like this, such as:
    ...

    If we can arrive at a place in a given system where we can accomplish all or many of the goals in a way that is good for the game, short term and long term, then that’s a great solution...
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    One goal is to fairly reimburse time invested without promoting Epic vs. Heroic based on XP/minute...

    Another goal is allowing efficiently earning of heroic class-based past lives while playing epic content...

    Another goal is to not make heroic reincarnation better than Epic Destiny reincarnation...
    First of all thanks for the Feedback, which is very much appreciated! Especially also the given background info and goals, as it makes it more clearer for us players what you are aiming for and in such helps us to give better constructive critics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferial_Flumph View Post
    So far the most vocal support, especially among those “heavily invested” in there ED's seems to be going towards option 2... and I'm not sure I understand why.

    ...

    Epic TR is coming, some will use it some won't, I plan on using it.

    ...
    I agree, as I actually like both paths, depending on which character I TR. I guess actually that even the majority of casual players or players that aren't in one of the top ten guilds would choose option 1 to run quicker through the TR process, while the hardcore/elite players or players with a good supporting guild don't much care about because they cap a character anyway in a couple of days. It even depends on the class as a pure bard life feels to take much longer as e.g. an artificer life. So the possibility to have a XP bank is a nice solution in that case.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOgre View Post
    I have to agree with others when they say you're underestimating how many people have invested heavily in EDs. I haven't focused strongly on maxing my EDs, I play alts, I play on more a few servers with a few static groups, so you'd call me one of those that take a very long time to take a character through content. And still I have a significant investment in EDs, one that i'd be furious over losing.

    Whatever mining system you're using to give you that data is way off. That or you're interpreting it wrong. Please don't make the mistake of underestimating people's perceived investment in your game.
    I agree that I don't like loosing my hard earned ED and I haven't just farmed them in RB neither, but accumulated on several TR cycles.

    However I am pretty sure they have exact numbers how many players have how many EDs capped. The problem is more that the number alone doesn't say much if you compare thousand casual F2P players without maxed ED against hundred premium/vip players with maxed ED. But then again, does the total revenue of the thousand casual when they one time buy a cosmetic pet/armor outweigh what the hardcore/elite player invest to the game? Hard to say without the numbers, and it is unlikely Turbine will ever publish those.

    Anyway apparently they seem to reconsider certain things, which I am thankful for.
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  4. #1444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    Going from "done" today to "done" the hour after Update 20 hits seems like a waste of developer time.

    The system needs to provide a goal to progress towards without invalidating previous efforts, not just move people that are currently at the end to the new end.
    They haven't specified how much is bonded by this first time, maybe it's all the EDs you have active or twists in. Other option would be the current sphere only. Also this special bonding doesn't necessarily have to mean getting all the EPL feats, but maybe just that you not loose their current earned XP anymore.
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  5. #1445

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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Hi.
    Just wanted to touch base with you all again on this. Your feedback during this early stage of development for this system has definitely been helpful. And I’ll reiterate that because we are early in the process, we haven’t locked anything down. Now on to some additional info.

    We have multiple goals with a system like this, such as:
    • Give players the new option of TR-ing at level cap.
    • Give players more things to achieve with a high level TR type character (like epic destiny past life feats and build points).
    • Allow Iconic Hero characters to use the reincarnation system.
    • Optimize the system to help people have a good play experience. (This is a tough one, because there are different opinions on what a “good play experience” is, but this could mean giving incentives to concentrate on different Epic Destinies than were played in the previous life, for example.)
    • And as a less design-oriented but equally important goal: If changes are needed that affect players’ current investment, compensate them for the changes.

    If we can arrive at a place in a given system where we can accomplish all or many of the goals in a way that is good for the game, short term and long term, then that’s a great solution. Many systems, however, are of sufficient complexity to make this a very interesting balancing act. But even with that complexity, it’s still possible to have a good solution. It just takes some time and iteration to get there. This was one of the reasons to start this thread and see what people thought about the new system and the first design proposal.

    So, here’s some more info on a couple of options we are currently considering.

    Option 1: XP “Bank” System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one ED to bond and then transfers all other ED XP into an XP Bank that can be used at any time to level through heroic levels. Example: A character has five maxed ED’s at level 28. They Epic TR, bond one ED, and then get roughly enough XP to take them back to level 20 in their new life and still have, let’s say, 1,000,000 XP left over to use in their following heroic life (to use at whatever level they want). This option could also come with a onetime opportunity to bond multiple ED’s in one TR (to help those invested in the current system to transfer to the new).

    Option 2: Keep Epic Destiny XP System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one maxed out ED that he/she will acquire the Past Life feat for. This Epic Destiny is then flagged. (Starting out, you cannot get more than one copy of each ED’s past life feat.) The character then starts at level 1, but all ED XP is preserved at whatever levels it was at.

    We are considering more than just these two options, but we thought you might like to know a bit about what we are currently thinking. Thanks again.
    notice how everything is always a) nothing is set in stone/locked down b) very early in the development process c) player feedback is helpful and being listened to...notice that? not that such words are smoke being blown up certain individuals smoke holes, but given the amount of spam of these words and lack of followthrough i must declare they are either intentional **** or just plain meaningless. now on to some additional info.

    -give players the NEW????? option of tring at level cap? what? this is new? you mean once i got to 25 i couldnt tr, well gee i guess i am a hackxzorz.
    -give players more to achieve with a high level tr character. it already takes (2mil x11) - (20k x11) xp to cap all your destinies, plus 1.9 mil to just get to 20 on a first life, plus 3mil more to get to 25. so a firstlifer capping and maxing one destiny needs 1.9+3+1.98mil xp = 6.88 million xp, for fairly basic stuff. now personally i dont think xp is overly hard to come by, with all the tomes and pots and streaks and bonuses and whatnot, but essentially 6.88 mil for a new player who wants to do endgame, imagine a completionist with all their destinies capped, im hope you know the real number because you want to take it all away.
    -give iconic heroes the ability to tr. you need a new system for that? at first i was just thinking you have got to be kidding me. then i remembered, you are not doing it because you want to, you are doing it because the code says you have to otherwise they cant tr. let us all bow before the almighty code-god, in whom we all invest our time and money. i will begin sending my suggestions directly to the code. plz provide and email or mailing address.
    -optimize the system. ok, heres what you dont do. go changing things on a large scale rapidly without proper development and player feed back which you actually implement instead of just reading and going "bleh guess they dont agree at all remotely whatsoever with us or eachother. we will just do what we were going to. its bugged. ok." here is what you do, just get down and nasty with that code and beat it into submission, fix the bugs, identify the things that actually are broken or preventing a positive gaming experience; fix those things.
    -compensate players. give me a time machine to go back in time and shoot myself before i start playing ddo. i would buy tubine points to acquire this item.

    option 1: obliterate most of the content in the game for at least a considerable portion of the people who play ddo, thus probably leading to less care and attention on your part leading to it getting more buggy and broken (not that all of it is, now anyway) leading to more ppl not playing it. also less people will know it and still less people will then run it. SIMPLE solution: just get friggin rid of all that garbage, just let ppl start their toons at level 20. you give out less free turbine points, there is less to accomplish with a meaningless low level toon leading to more focus on "high level TR type"s, less stuff for you to bug, less stuff for you to manage, less stuff for you to think about, less stuff players need to run. but you wouldnt do that instead of the way that makes less sense, because then players wouldnt ever buy those packs. youre right, do the less simple thing, mb.

    option 2: why is this not the only option. this is the first idea i have seen from you guys on the forums in a long time that i just plain liked. why was this not the original plan. /d'oh.

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    edit: special street shout out to mah homie g nijjjjailz of argo-nezzen
    Last edited by newforumsnameagain; 06-18-2013 at 04:27 PM. Reason: nijail is a BJEAST

  6. #1446
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    Default been thinking about it....

    I've taken awhile to consider this before posting a response.

    I should state at the start that I am a role-player, not a power-gamer. I still have alot of Epic Destiny XP.

    From a role-playing perspective, whenever you "reincarnate" you start over with a fresh slate. You remember nothing of your past life, except since we are all exceptional heroes, some snippets. The mechanic for "remember nothing" is losing all your xp. The mechanic for "some snippets" are the Past Life Feats.

    I think this should be continued with Epic TR. It makes sense when I look at it like a role-player. So, Epic TR should start you at level 0, on Korthos, with no XP of any kind (not even a Bonded Destiny) and a new Epic Past Life Feat.

    However, losing all the Epic XP is a serious drag. A game-breaking drag for many of us. So I would implement an in-game, role-playing solution: a new NPC (maybe a hill-giant shaman) that can take you on a spiritual journey to remember your past life. For a reasonable cost, you can remember one Epic Destiny: It will be restored as it was before you Epic Reincarnated and you receive an appropriate amount of Fate Points for the Epic Desitiny Levels in that Destiny. This can't be the Destiny that you traded for the Epic Past Life Feat. That one will have to be re-learned. By "reasonable cost" I'm thinking an item that can be earned with no more than 20 runs of an Epic Raid. Let's call it a Hard-Boiled Phoenix Egg. It has a tiny chance to drop in any chest in any epic content, a higher chest to drop in any chest that gives Tokens of the Twelve (or similiar chest) and an even higher chance to appear as a quest reward. Definitely appears on 20th completion of any epic raid. The trader may want this Hard-Boiled Phoenix Egg and some other stuff. Or it may be that the Egg should be easier to get. In any event, it can be tweaked to be as easy or hard as it should be. It can be available in the store. If it is unbound it can be found on the AH or ASAH and people will love trading it and farming it for trades.

    I think this would respect the effort we've put in for the Epic XP while keeping it fun to re-earn the Destiny. It also means that we don't have to level a bunch of Destinies we don't need to travel over to the Destiny we do want. Just unlock the one we want with the Egg. A smart player will have that Egg ready when they hit level 20.

    That my 2cp.

  7. #1447
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    something I have been sorta thinking about today. with epic TR and gaining past life feats would suggest that a character is considered separate from heroic characters. its like when you reach level 20 you are considered an epic character and leave behind the heroic version of yourself. when you enter an epic destiny, which normally would be one that fits your class/build best, it describes the mythic archetype you aspire to achieve. your destiny sets you apart from those who have yet or may achieve epic levels. epic destinies are supposed to be exceptional power and defines your place in the universe.

    so im wondering why would there be an option to epic TR back to 20 and re-level to 28? why would we be granted an epic past life when we are considered on a path to being a demi god and earning increased power through the DDO leveling process in destinies? I remember someone saying epic characters are commoners with epic powers. I prefer to say we are heroes with epic powers actually and the road to great power is not an easy one that all are able to achieve.

    personally, I like the idea of an epic feat but lets not confuse what epic levels and destinies really are.

  8. #1448
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    Quote Originally Posted by magn0liafan View Post
    For those opposed to option 1, if the emphasized text was definite (would instead of could) and you had the (albeit one time) opportunity to bond all your destines that you have capped, would you consider this?
    Oh, yes! The strongest argument for option 1 is the potential one-time bonding of multiple ED's. It is a great way save the hard work done by everyone who has worked on them from their release to date.


    The XP bank part is just the icing on the cake, but I like icing too. XD
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  9. #1449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Option 1: XP “Bank” System...

    Option 2: Keep Epic Destiny XP System...
    I prefer option 1 for some reason.... :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    We are considering more than just these two options, but we thought you might like to know a bit about what we are currently thinking. Thanks again.
    SO what else are you considering?

    Hopefully not just letting us waste more of our lives by talking about stuff that you ARE NOT considering?
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  10. #1450
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    Awwwwwwww Hyellllll Noooooo...

    The game does not need more double standards, fractured systems, and New Systems Trumping Old Ones.

    Heroic Commendations already are Epic Raid Tokens that you can't use Raid Tokens for.
    The cost of Lahar's augments has never been revisited from the 20 dungeon token cost they were previously. (and they need a recipe in Astral Shards, ditto Gianthold augment vendors)
    There's really not a lot to do with Tokens of the Twelve these days.
    Making a New heart that's not available in game is just another instance of abandoning the foundations of the game in an effort to extort more cash from the players.
    Agreed. There should be a means to earn an epic heart ingame, just as there is for a true heart.
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  11. #1451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    Heroic Commendations already are Epic Raid Tokens that you can't use Raid Tokens for.
    The cost of Lahar's augments has never been revisited from the 20 dungeon token cost they were previously. (and they need a recipe in Astral Shards, ditto Gianthold augment vendors)
    There's really not a lot to do with Tokens of the Twelve these days.
    Making a New heart that's not available in game is just another instance of abandoning the foundations of the game in an effort to extort more cash from the players.
    To avoid making "old" currency obsolete, all we need is a conversion rate between them.

    Keeping the basics:

    100 fragments = 1 Token
    20 Token = 1 True Druidic Heart of Wood

    I would tweak it slightly to try and breath some life into the Raids so that
    1 Greater Token = 2 Token
    10 Greater Token = 1 True Druidic Heart of Wood

    Which therefore means
    200 fragments = 1 Greater Token
    2000 fragments = 1 True Druidic Heart of Wood

    I would also propose that the Epic Druidic Heart of Wood would be
    2 True Druidic Heart of Wood = 1 Epic Druidic Heart of Wood

    So that would also mean that
    4000 fragments = 1 Epic Druidic Heart of Wood
    40 Token = 1 Epic Druidic Heart of Wood
    20 Greater Token = 1 Epic Druidic Heart of Wood

    We have an exchange rate at the moment that
    1 True Druidic Heart of Wood in the store costs 1495 Turbine Points and
    265 Astral Shard also costs 1495 Turbine points

    So it follows that
    1 True Druidic Heart of Wood = 265 Astral Shards
    20 Tokens = 265 Astral Shards
    10 Greater Tokens = 265 Astral Shards
    2000 Fragments = 265 Astral Shards

    Let us convert freely between these and we have an exchange system that will benefit everyone. Lahar in the twelve would welcome the increased traffic I'm sure

    I would even take it further and suggest that 1 Heroic Commendation = 3 Greater Tokens and extend the barter options to allow us to freely convert between fragments, Tokens, Greater Token, Astral Shards and Heroic Commendations. If you don't think that you should be able to barter for Heroic Commendations, then run 40 CitW and tell me how you get on.

  12. #1452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Hi.
    .
    .
    .

    So, here’s some more info on a couple of options we are currently considering.

    Option 1: XP “Bank” System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one ED to bond and then transfers all other ED XP into an XP Bank that can be used at any time to level through heroic levels. Example: A character has five maxed ED’s at level 28. They Epic TR, bond one ED, and then get roughly enough XP to take them back to level 20 in their new life and still have, let’s say, 1,000,000 XP left over to use in their following heroic life (to use at whatever level they want). This option could also come with a onetime opportunity to bond multiple ED’s in one TR (to help those invested in the current system to transfer to the new).

    Option 2: Keep Epic Destiny XP System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one maxed out ED that he/she will acquire the Past Life feat for. This Epic Destiny is then flagged. (Starting out, you cannot get more than one copy of each ED’s past life feat.) The character then starts at level 1, but all ED XP is preserved at whatever levels it was at.

    We are considering more than just these two options, but we thought you might like to know a bit about what we are currently thinking. Thanks again.
    ^^ Just in case you didn't backtrace the quotes to learn the context, but I am sure you did.


    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Uh, no. It has nothing to do with "planned" versus "spontaneous."

    Consider if I want to roll up a brand new shirardi sorc. You tell me: What destiny do I pick as my first one?

    How about a fury of the wild paladin? The starting destiny would be...?
    In short, a player's choice to take a difficult path to acquire ED's has no relevance in an argument against the viability of Option 1. On the contrary, the possibility of bonding multiple ED's (hopefully with the associated PL's) should befit such a toon, imo.

    As far as your questions go, I think a discussion about the details of planning a toon may be a bit too far off topic for this thread, but they do sound interesting.
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  13. #1453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We could consider having characters "remember" how many they had. However, we don't consider it viable to let you gain more Fate Points as you regain Destiny XP (should we choose to go forward with any of proposal where any kind of XP is lost, whether from one destiny or many). That leads to infinite or at least "quite a lot" of Fate Points in the long run. That unfortunately means that if we simply blindly preserve your total but don't let you accumulate more until you would have more: The right thing to do is never TR until you have maxed out all Epic Destinies. We know that some players like to break up earning Destinies with reincarnation, and we would like to support that.
    Well this is extremely disappointing. I had thought that this ETR system was a brilliant way to allow people an in-game method to acquire the same effect as the Pay-to-Win Tomes of Fate. But apparently they are intended to remain as a per-character charge to anyone who wants to actually max out a character's potential.

    Considering just how absurdly long it would take to actually max out your Fate Points, and the fact that most builds rely on specific lower level twists, it seems quite reasonable to offer players some method of advancing their twists besides pulling out the credit card.

    The lack of any means at all to advance your Fate Points kind of sucks any enthusiasm that I had for the new system out, no matter how it ends up working.

    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Option 2: Keep Epic Destiny XP System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one maxed out ED that he/she will acquire the Past Life feat for. This Epic Destiny is then flagged. (Starting out, you cannot get more than one copy of each ED’s past life feat.) The character then starts at level 1, but all ED XP is preserved at whatever levels it was at.
    Assuming that, as in the original system proposed, you also get the Heroic PL feat that you qualified for, this seems acceptable at least.

    At least to me, it seems like Major Game System changes should be something that will make people anxious to be able to jump on board. It kind of feels like there is not much excitement for this new ETR system, even among those who support it. Rather than a new thing that everyone is extremely excited to dive into, it seems more like the most positive things that anyone has to say about it come down to a flat "Oh joy. I have a longer treadmill to grind now." Maybe this will change when they start giving us an idea of the power level of the EPL feats, but they are a bit limited here because if they make them very strong it will create a major backlash from a different subset of players.
    Last edited by ForumAccess; 06-18-2013 at 11:59 PM.

  14. #1454
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    Default Thank you!

    I appreciate the producer and devs demonstrating that they understand what our concern is and throwing out additional food for thought.

    At this point I was mentally prepared to epic TR and lose all my destiny XP so regardless of what decision you make it already exceeds my expectations which were based on the first post.

    My only recommendation is not to be overly heavy-handed with the social engineering to force people into epic TR vs. heroic TR. It makes sense that you should get more and better things from epic TR, but I don't think it's necessary to discourage people to heroic TR.

    Besides, if epic TR is only available once per destiny, some new players may want to heroic TR as well for some more past lives.

    My only comment is that with only 11 destinies to epic TR, you may find people are reaching epic completionist quicker than you anticipated and what is left to do after that since epic past lives only stack once per destiny.

    Also, if you TR from an iconic do you get an iconic past life feat in place of a class feat or in addition?

    Keep up the great work!
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  15. #1455
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    [QUOTE=Piloto;

    So, here’s some more info on a couple of options we are currently considering.

    Option 1: XP “Bank” System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one ED to bond and then transfers all other ED XP into an XP Bank that can be used at any time to level through heroic levels. Example: A character has five maxed ED’s at level 28. They Epic TR, bond one ED, and then get roughly enough XP to take them back to level 20 in their new life and still have, let’s say, 1,000,000 XP left over to use in their following heroic life (to use at whatever level they want). This option could also come with a onetime opportunity to bond multiple ED’s in one TR (to help those invested in the current system to transfer to the new).

    Option 2: Keep Epic Destiny XP System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one maxed out ED that he/she will acquire the Past Life feat for. This Epic Destiny is then flagged. (Starting out, you cannot get more than one copy of each ED’s past life feat.) The character then starts at level 1, but all ED XP is preserved at whatever levels it was at.

    We are considering more than just these two options, but we thought you might like to know a bit about what we are currently thinking. Thanks again.[/QUOTE]

    If I had to choose i would go with option 2, but instead of going from 1 to 28 I would rather do 20 to 28 plus the ED for the past life. I would like to be able to stay at cap for a while and run content. And be able to bank XP once I hit cap for those heroic TR levels that feel like they just won't end.
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  16. #1456
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonko_the_sane View Post
    I've taken awhile to consider this before posting a response.

    I should state at the start that I am a role-player, not a power-gamer. I still have alot of Epic Destiny XP.

    From a role-playing perspective, whenever you "reincarnate" you start over with a fresh slate. You remember nothing of your past life, except since we are all exceptional heroes, some snippets. The mechanic for "remember nothing" is losing all your xp. The mechanic for "some snippets" are the Past Life Feats.

    I think this should be continued with Epic TR. It makes sense when I look at it like a role-player. So, Epic TR should start you at level 0, on Korthos, with no XP of any kind (not even a Bonded Destiny) and a new Epic Past Life Feat.

    However, losing all the Epic XP is a serious drag. A game-breaking drag for many of us. So I would implement an in-game, role-playing solution: a new NPC (maybe a hill-giant shaman) that can take you on a spiritual journey to remember your past life. For a reasonable cost, you can remember one Epic Destiny: It will be restored as it was before you Epic Reincarnated and you receive an appropriate amount of Fate Points for the Epic Desitiny Levels in that Destiny. This can't be the Destiny that you traded for the Epic Past Life Feat. That one will have to be re-learned. By "reasonable cost" I'm thinking an item that can be earned with no more than 20 runs of an Epic Raid. Let's call it a Hard-Boiled Phoenix Egg. It has a tiny chance to drop in any chest in any epic content, a higher chest to drop in any chest that gives Tokens of the Twelve (or similiar chest) and an even higher chance to appear as a quest reward. Definitely appears on 20th completion of any epic raid. The trader may want this Hard-Boiled Phoenix Egg and some other stuff. Or it may be that the Egg should be easier to get. In any event, it can be tweaked to be as easy or hard as it should be. It can be available in the store. If it is unbound it can be found on the AH or ASAH and people will love trading it and farming it for trades.

    I think this would respect the effort we've put in for the Epic XP while keeping it fun to re-earn the Destiny. It also means that we don't have to level a bunch of Destinies we don't need to travel over to the Destiny we do want. Just unlock the one we want with the Egg. A smart player will have that Egg ready when they hit level 20.

    That my 2cp.
    This is an interesting approach. Perhaps the devs could create a Spiritwalk chain centered on your Hill Giant Shaman. You choose an ED you wish to 'awaken' at the main dialog, and then the NPC puts you into a dream state. In the dream, you have a materially stripped-down version of yourself with stats to match a past life that complements the ED you chose. So if you are a caster seeking to learn about your fighter past life, you would run the chain as a fighter with a basic set of instance-only gear.

    You may start the first spiritwalk doing something as mundane as fetching water, when you have an encounter that first reveals your potential destiny. Subsequent encounters would build on that, as though you are reliving a fast-forward version of a past life.

    Hmm. The devs could even put Lockania to work as the NPC for this, since she already hints about a character's destiny.
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  17. #1457
    Community Member mons's Avatar
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    I would like to touch base in regards to Heroic TR and Epic TR. For those of us who have grinded out completionist or even moreso Tripletionists, I feel we would be penalized if Epic TR involved a reset back to level 1. The whole Heroic vs Epic TR should all be entirely separate.

    If Heroic TR, reset to lvl 1 and no loss of ED. Available at lvl 20.

    If Epic TR, reset to lvl 20 and I would be ok with loss of ED or any variation of it. Available at lvl 28.

    Both Completionist feats (epic and heroic) are auto granted upon eligibility ie. FREE.

    Completionists already did the grind and the time and should not have to TR back to lvl 1 for Epic TR.

    Just my 2cp
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  18. #1458
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    Considering just how absurdly long it would take to actually max out your Fate Points, and the fact that most builds rely on specific lower level twists, it seems quite reasonable to offer players some method of advancing their twists besides pulling out the credit card.
    Tomes of Fate drop in loot, from Caught in the Web and Fall of Truth.

  19. #1459
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Tomes of Fate drop in loot, from Caught in the Web and Fall of Truth.
    I've seen a +1 version drop in a random chest, but I've not seen or heard of a +2 dropping anywhere, whether it be random loot or either of those raids. Maybe I missed a screenshot somewhere.

    Edit: found the thread here

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...y-drop-in-game

    tracking drops and locations. I know it's a bit out of date, but there is no mention of +2 fate tomes dropping in game at all.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 06-18-2013 at 07:28 PM. Reason: added a thread link for tracking
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  20. #1460
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    Quote Originally Posted by mons View Post
    I would like to touch base in regards to Heroic TR and Epic TR. For those of us who have grinded out completionist or even moreso Tripletionists, I feel we would be penalized if Epic TR involved a reset back to level 1. The whole Heroic vs Epic TR should all be entirely separate.

    If Heroic TR, reset to lvl 1 and no loss of ED. Available at lvl 20.

    If Epic TR, reset to lvl 20 and I would be ok with loss of ED or any variation of it. Available at lvl 28.

    Both Completionist feats (epic and heroic) are auto granted upon eligibility ie. FREE.

    Completionists already did the grind and the time and should not have to TR back to lvl 1 for Epic TR.

    Just my 2cp
    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    There will be 4 Iconic options with available PL's that stack X3. These also start at level 15. TR runs with these will get you up to 12 Iconic PL's and all (currently) 11 ED PL's without re-running any of the heroic classes.
    Or this.
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