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  1. #1421
    Hero BurnerD's Avatar
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    ok we've gotten developer feedback. They have:
    1. acknowledged their initial direction wasn't well received.
    2. Are considering other options.
    3. Still open to feedback/suggestions.

    At this point the only thing we should be posting is new suggestions/constructive feedback on the most recent dev posts.

    I think they get most of us wont use the system they initially suggested and it may affect player retention.

    Keep the feedback polite and to the point from now on. If they don't have to sort through pages and pages of spew it may help.

    For those of you who still don't get it... they are not going to give you a definitive answer any time soon. They fact that we have an open dialogue is a big plus. Keep demanding the answer you want and eventually they will clam up again. For every 20 people who hate the proposed system there are a few who like it (i'm not one of them). They have to take ALL feedback into consideration before deciding direction.

    I posted earlier in the thread my disappointment with the initial post and am at least now mildly optimistic we may get something more reasonable.

    stay classy DDO denizens....
    Argonessenn -Officer of Storm Shadow-
    Olen Anteres

  2. #1422
    Community Member TBot1234's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Devs, the goal is to make people want to epic TR right? Decent PLs will do this (and a decent Epic completionist PL) Why do you have to take ED xp away at all?
    Although I've said this before, I agree that there is no need to take ED XP away at all. Whether it is a regular TR or Epic TR, there is no need to tie ED XP to character level XP. Maybe having to re-acquire one ED during an Epic TR would be ok. Keep the two things mostly separated and you'll probably find a better way to implement Epic TR, please players, and not alienate loyal customers.
    "So maybe it's about time we all get a reality check and realize that if you raid, run epics, and have capped toons and worry about ED's TR's and all that jazz, you are a small part of the population of this game, a very small part in fact." -- Ungood

  3. #1423
    Community Member magn0liafan's Avatar
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    Default Full text of "Option 1": An analysis

    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    Option 1: XP “Bank” System
    When Epic TR-ing, a character selects one ED to bond and then transfers all other ED XP into an XP Bank that can be used at any time to level through heroic levels. Example: A character has five maxed ED’s at level 28. They Epic TR, bond one ED, and then get roughly enough XP to take them back to level 20 in their new life and still have, let’s say, 1,000,000 XP left over to use in their following heroic life (to use at whatever level they want). This option could also come with a one time opportunity to bond multiple ED’s in one TR (to help those invested in the current system to transfer to the new).
    For those opposed to option 1, if the emphasized text was definite (would instead of could) and you had the (albeit one time) opportunity to bond all your destines that you have capped, would you consider this?
    "F*** Jay and Silent Bob, f*** them up their stupid a**es."
    "Who the f*** said that s***?"
    "A guy who calls himself 'Magnolia Fan'."

  4. #1424

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    You guys figure out that "internal code" on your end...
    i just realized, turbine has stopped making decisions..its all in the hands of the wacky out of control code which is not really making decisions so much as proceeding to whatever course of action is immediately least difficult to take.

    we shouldve realized this sooner as not only the devs but also their forum cheerleaders have stated many a time that they are not in control of the monster they have made. i think the turbine execs know this and that is why they are all "gimmeh all yo money, nao!" lately...

    "the lord giveth and the lord taketh away", and eventually you have atheists and these crazy doods known as sciamentists. !?!?!

    i tihnk basically the iconic past lives will be uber weak with the current proposal for iconic tr, and the epic destiny past life will not be nearly good enough to a) overcome the hurt feelings from the ultimate betrayal turbine is about to layeth upon ourselfs b) overcome the amount of xp grind necessary to get it c) make people who play endgame want to tr to actually get what is probably a negligible bonus to their toon, also...its only one toon thats getting it...

    on the other hand what does everyone expect? turbine to not make new stuff? then everything gets run to death and ppl leave out of boredom. so its either new stuff obsoleting the old or changing existing stuff. frankly i think what turbine is doing is plain wrong and should be reported to that magical place that prevents bad stuff, but since they arent giving us more inventory/bag/bank space i prefer regrinding xp to destroying items. still wrong as all heck tho.

    also at delacroix...you ran that quest 847 times. turbine didnt really make you. they may not have given you many choices, but on a real simple level you had at least 3: run the quest 847 times, settle for less fate points, just dont play. that last one is aaaaaaaalways there bud, its the one thing turbine cant take awa....well...its..there..sort of....
    also if you dont like repeating quests why in the world would you ask for turbine to REMOVE the penalty for repeating a quest? unless that was a typo that is just absolutely the dumbest thing i ahve ever heard a ddo player seriously suggest, unless you were joking. i hope you were.
    additionally if you were getting 20 odd k or whatever from id or rusted blades or wahtever you were running it doesnt sound like repetition penalty was a problem.
    you had some good suggestions in your other posts that i read...

    turbine, please read our suggestions, please dont break more stuff, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease make u21 the magical fix of ddo!

    and please please please paleplzplzplzpzlpzlzplzpzlpzlzpzlpzlzplzplzpozlpzl zpzlpzlzplzpzlpzlzplzplzpzlzplzpzlzplz
    PLEASE BAN ME FOREVER, i cannot end my addiction myself.

    boondockz argo..

  5. #1425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    Option 1: XP Bank system:
    Upon Epic TRing, 1 unbonded destiny is added to the collection of bonded destinies, if able.
    Unbonded destinies are wiped
    Unlocked destinies remain unlocked (Don't make poor Artis regrind from Arcane sphere, thru martial, to Shiradi every life)
    For each fate point achieved (total, including Tome and Bonded destinies), the Epic Advantage grants 1 Stone of Experience: Epic Seed.
    The Stone of Experience: Epic Seed is
    -ML 1
    -Max Stack size 1000
    -BTC
    -No Bank, No Mail, No Auction
    -Good for a Fixed amount of XP (i.e. 200,000 xp stones would mean that a player would get 4 million XP across 20 stones after TRing with maxxed destinies.)
    Yes i see the potential in this, as i often feel that a boost of 100k or so could be nice as i would then be able to join some friends TRing. Maybe make it 50k a stone and 1 stone for each rank you have for a max of 50 stones if you TR.
    It would also solve the problem whit the wipe of XP, but then again the first time they TR after maxing there ED they will lose a bit. But in the long run it might be a good system, and you wont be mega strong when you hit 20 thanks to your twists for the first 4-5 life's.
    And for sake of the argument, i do want to play epic stuff if i feel it makes my char stronger so i do really want a Epic TR system. But i don't want a system that's made from stupid short term decisions but that's really been past the grinding stone so it wont hurt they player base or make players hate the game(like making it to easy or resetting the ED system).
    I also think that to TR a Iconic hero you would need to do a Epic TR and not a simple TR. Else it might be used to get simple heroic past life's, wile if they need to do a Epic TR it wouldn't be as much of a difference. Or that if you TR in to a Iconic hero you'll start at lvl 1.
    And i also hope they make a revisit to some other stuff like the Titan raid so people starts playing it at level again or that it gets a epic version.

  6. #1426
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magn0liafan View Post
    For those opposed to option 1, if the emphasized text was definite (would instead of could) and you had the (albeit one time) opportunity to bond all your destines that you have capped, would you consider this?

    Going from "done" today to "done" the hour after Update 20 hits seems like a waste of developer time.

    The system needs to provide a goal to progress towards without invalidating previous efforts, not just move people that are currently at the end to the new end.

  7. #1427
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    My solution would look something like this:
    On doing an Epic True Reincarnation the active Epic Destiny gets erased (xp only, you get to keep your Twist of Faith Points). All of your other Epic Destinies remain intact. The Active ED on E-TR will give you the new feat and if you go through this ED again new Faith Points are gained. So if you would go through each ED 3 times you would wind up with 55 Faith Points.

    Of course this would mean you have to be able to spend those 55 Faith Points on some thing. So more Twist of Faith slots would be needed as well as the option to twist in tier five and six abilities. Probably at a higher price then you would expect.

    Code:
     
    
    	1	2	3	4	5	6	Tier Ability
    1	1	2	3	4	8	16
    2	2	3	4	5	10	20
    3	3	4	5	6	12	24
    4	4	5	6	7	14	28
    5	5	6	7	8	16	32
    6	6	7	8	9	18	36
    7	7	8	9	10	20	40
    8	8	9	10	11	22	44
    9	9	10	11	12	24	48
    10	10	11	12	13	26	52
    	
    Twist
    Slot
    I've posted this elsewhere but this seems to be the official place to put it.

    I would like constructive criticism on it so that it can be improved.

    Personally I think it would be nice to see some of the ideas posted by others (Epic Destinies XP Banking for one and just TR-ing without any "lost Destiny XP and trade off gains") implemented as well with mine and let the player choose what option it wants to go for.
    See this game is all about having multiple options and the flexibility it brings with it.

    One, two! One, two! and through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head. He went galumphing back.

  8. #1428
    Founder Delacroix21's Avatar
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    I still think we can incorporate all 3 ideas and make everyone happy:

    1. Heroic TR stay same, with decreased/removed XP penalties

    2. Epic TR gain 1 past life feat, 1 heroic past life, and 1 fate point. ED XP untouched.

    3. A seperate XP bank at level 28 can bank XP to be used towards a TR if desired.
    Making DDO a better game 1 post at a time!

    Triple EVERYTHING Completionist= Heroic 39/39, Iconic 12/12, Epic 36/36

  9. #1429

    Default

    also, here is my suggestion which fits your simple solution requirement:
    Don't. Touch. ****.
    do you really need to? do you really need to right now? have you fully explored the impact and listened to player feedback for REAL? did you try caring about what they said? have you thought of the almighty code and all the possible permutations your changes could have? is this an opportunity to actually make the game better, or is it another opportunity for rushed developments to bork more content further angering people who just seem to always be upset about many many aspects of the game (and i dont mean they are unhappy with their abilities or some such "easily" handled bleh, i mean bugs, halfworking forums, evil deeds like giving xp and then taking it away and before you think it no you are not giving it back to me as heroic ranks, because rank 96 is ~200k while lvl 1 of an ed is iirc ~180k, so that would be the only time its worth it and im asssssuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuming these ranks are added at the front end, meaning i get to skip freaking korthos which is over in half an hour anyway, thanks saved me a lot of time. oh wait you are actually taking about infinte hours minus 30 minutes, *clap.) do you think that new stuff, likely to be broken and full of ignored player advice is going to generate enough interest to outweigh the irritation of things we currently have that do not function properly regardless even of their morally questionable intent? obviously you cant give the players everything they want (i win ddo button kids i am talking about you, i know you wish they were real) but you ahve to toss the dog a bone or else it dies of lack of bone chewing.
    maybe you can make these or other, better changes, later.
    inshort my simple plan: good customer service, l2p bros.

    da booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ondockz

  10. #1430
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreemz View Post
    Yes i see the potential in this, as i often feel that a boost of 100k or so could be nice as i would then be able to join some friends TRing. Maybe make it 50k a stone and 1 stone for each rank you have for a max of 50 stones if you TR.
    It would also solve the problem whit the wipe of XP, but then again the first time they TR after maxing there ED they will lose a bit. But in the long run it might be a good system, and you wont be mega strong when you hit 20 thanks to your twists for the first 4-5 life's.
    And for sake of the argument, i do want to play epic stuff if i feel it makes my char stronger so i do really want a Epic TR system. But i don't want a system that's made from stupid short term decisions but that's really been past the grinding stone so it wont hurt they player base or make players hate the game(like making it to easy or resetting the ED system).
    I also think that to TR a Iconic hero you would need to do a Epic TR and not a simple TR. Else it might be used to get simple heroic past life's, wile if they need to do a Epic TR it wouldn't be as much of a difference. Or that if you TR in to a Iconic hero you'll start at lvl 1.
    And i also hope they make a revisit to some other stuff like the Titan raid so people starts playing it at level again or that it gets a epic version.
    While I definitely don't think my proposed ratio is best or anything, I think yours might be too good.

    50k stone per rank means that it is correct to get every destiny to level 1 before TRing. Level 0 ranks are 36k a piece, at Epic quest rates. It becomes a no-brainer to get 36k epic xp for 50k potentially-heroic xp. Also that wouldn't provide benefit just past the 2nd destiny you maxxed (24 ranks per destiny).

    Unless we're just confusing terminology... Ranks are each dot, each skill point. There are 4 ranks per Level, and 5 Levels per destiny.

  11. #1431
    Community Member magn0liafan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    Going from "done" today to "done" the hour after Update 20 hits seems like a waste of developer time.

    The system needs to provide a goal to progress towards without invalidating previous efforts, not just move people that are currently at the end to the new end.
    Sorry about the misunderstanding. The remainder of the text remains the same, as in, only gaining one ED PL Feat per Epic TR.
    "F*** Jay and Silent Bob, f*** them up their stupid a**es."
    "Who the f*** said that s***?"
    "A guy who calls himself 'Magnolia Fan'."

  12. #1432
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magn0liafan View Post
    Sorry about the misunderstanding. The remainder of the text remains the same, as in, only gaining one ED PL Feat per Epic TR.
    But in all their proposed systems, Bonding is what grants the PL. They do not intend to make triple stacking Epic PLs unlike the heroic... So, If you bond them all at once, you either get all the PLs or have no means to attain them.

  13. #1433
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    But in all their proposed systems, Bonding is what grants the PL. They do not intend to make triple stacking Epic PLs unlike the heroic... So, If you bond them all at once, you either get all the PLs or have no means to attain them.
    There is no mention of bonding all destinies, just multiple destinies. Perhaps it's two, maybe one sphere or maybe 4 of your choice. Maybe they do mean all, though I doubt it. I think there are too many variables in the option 1 proposal as it's stated. It could either be too good/easy or a trap. Option 2 is much more transparent, which is why I think it's more popular currently. Option 1 is really only half an option. We need more info. As mentioned, perhaps bonding and past lives are separate. Though you may be able to bond multiple/all destinies, perhaps you still need to level them again in order to gain the past life. As suggested in option 2, you don't lose any destiny xp (they all stay maxed) though nobody assumes in that option that you immediately gain all past lives.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  14. #1434
    Community Member Habitual.0's Avatar
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    Default My 2 Plat

    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    I am excited to start sharing our plans for the future of the Reincarnation system! Later this year (targeting Update 20) we look forward to introducing two new TR destinations, Epic Destiny True Reincarnation and Iconic True Reincarnation. We’ve got some minor improvements involving Lesser and Greater Reincarnation in store, as well.


    We’ve seen a number of questions and discussions about TR, Iconics, and the TR / end-game gap. For the expansion pack, we are focused on ensuring that the new races are fun and playable, the content is fun and beautiful, and that the enhancement system changes launch as expected! With that, we plan to build out the TR system later in the year. The team is also taking the time to get your early feedback as the designers and engineers lock down feature plans. - How does this fit (or change) your playstyle? Read on for details, then let us know!

    A few goals for Epic Destiny TR:


    • Extend Reincarnation system to allow for 38-point builds
    • Include Epic Destinies in the TR cycle (with Epic Destiny Past Life Feats)
    • Reward you for additional investment in Epic Destinies (with starting ranks after TR)
    • Adjust the XP curve in Epic levels for multi-life TR to avoid the dramatic escalating grind
    • Include Iconics in the TR cycle (with Iconic Past Life Feats)
    • Allow you to TR into and out of Iconics (if you own Iconics)


    How does this system look in practice?

    Heroic True Reincarnation


    • Heroic TR remains primarily unchanged at level 20 or above
    • Grants a Class Past Life Feat that can stack up to 3x
    • Adds 2 build points up to a 36 point build
    • Benefits from the Epic Advantage if you earn Epic Destinies before TR (below)


    Epic Destiny True Reincarnation


    • Can be taken at Level Cap (Level 28 with Shadowfell Conspiracy)
    • Grants an Epic Destiny Past Life Feat
      • Feat based on active, maximized Epic Destiny

    • Karmic Bond -The active ED’s experience is now bonded through each ED True Reincarnation going forward
    • Grants a Class Past Life Feat (same as Heroic TR)
    • You must have a maximized, non-bonded ED to complete this TR
    • Adds 2 build points up to a 38 point build


    Epic Advantage


    With any type of True Reincarnation, all Epic Destiny Levels earned will give you an advantage when you rebuild your character, by converting Destiny Levels into Heroic Ranks. Every level of Epic Destiny you have earned will count toward ranks earned for your next life. (Epic Destinies will not carry over to your next life, except those destinies that you have bonded in previous lives with ED TR.)

    Iconic True Reincarnation

    That’s right; Iconics will have their own form of True Reincarnation, earning their own unique set of past-life feats. You will also be able to TR from any character into an Iconic, which begins at level 15, like normal. Epic Advantage also works on both ends, as well, transferring ED XP earned in your Iconic life, and, if you TR into an Iconic, adding XP on top of your level 15 starting XP.Can be taken at Level Cap (Level 28 with Shadowfell Conspiracy)


    • Grants an Iconic Past Life Feat that can stack up to 3x
    • Adds 2 build points up a 36 point build
    • Earns ranks from Epic Advantage


    What else?

    Here are some changes we’re currently exploring:


    • Reincarnation cooldown timer reduced to 3 days.
    • Reincarnation XP curves smoothed to ease penalties for multiple lives.
    • Lesser Reincarnation will allow a Heroic character to reincarnate as a Champion. Greater Reincarnation will no longer be sold, in favor of an improved Lesser Reincarnation.
    • Iconic characters will be able to Lesser Reincarnate


    We are eager to begin production on this system and appreciate the many players that are eager to see us fulfill the end game potential that the TR system presents. With these changes we are also keeping a long-term view for TR, such as how to expand the Epic Destiny system and continue to support level cap growth in the future.


    Our sincere intentions are to provide these features to you, and the DDO community at large. We invite you response to these details and thank you for your support and fortitude while we roll these changes out in support of this year’s expansion pack. The team is thrilled that DDO continues to grow, innovate, and provide a great D&D experience.

    I have to admit when I first saw this post I was upset but after a day of thinking about it I decided to comment.



    Starting at the Heroic TRing

    Since you are revamping things change the past life feats both passive and active, here are my suggestions:

    Barbarian: Gain 1HP per level of barbarian or 20HP a past life. Stackable 3 times as always would only be an additional 60HP

    Bard: +1 to Enchantment DC plus the already +2 to the current saves

    Cleric: +5 to heal (I hear you are changing things to make the heal skill actually count for heals) plus the current pluses

    Fighter: +2 to attack rolls and to the DC of tactical feats

    Paladin: 10% Heal amp instead of the current 5%

    Ranger: +2 to Hit with a ranged weapon, +3 to damage and +5 to every elemental resist

    Rogue: +1 to reflex, +2 save for traps, +3 to disable traps and +5 Sneak attack damage

    Sorcerer: +1 Evocation DC as normal +50SP and +10 to elemental damage

    Wizard: +10 Universal spell power, +2 Spell Pen as normal Something like wand mastery for wand usage

    Monk: +2 to attack rolls, +1 to damage and +5 to concentration

    Favored Soul: +10 to light/Impulse damage +1 Spell Pen and +50 SP

    Primal Avatar: +2 to all minion stats, +5 Resistance to Poison and Disease

    Shadow Dancer: +1 Dexterity, +2 to reflex, +5 Sneak Attack Damage, +1 (W) when sneak attacking

    Shiradi Champion: +5 to Hit ranged, +1 (W) with a bow, +5 Damage, +5 to all elemental damage

    Unyielding Sentinel: 3/- Damage reduction, +25 HP, +10% Heal Amp





    In summery; What I fear most is that you guys are making decisions based on getting more money. I do not think that Turbine yet realizes that if they made an awesome game people would flock to it.



    These changes would bring several things I feel. The new Heroic Past Life feats would make people want to TR the Heroic levels again/more. (These should be retroactive I think, Perhaps make people do a Lesser TR to get the changes or something. If you absolutely HAVE to make people get these over again then I suggest keeping the old ones and letting people also have the new versions. I think that would reward those players who have been with you the longest instead of shafting those players completely with taking them away AND making them redo those lives)



    In order to TR the Epic Destiny Stuff, you will have to buy a heart of wood which I think we all understand. Personally I wouldn’t allow for an in game option or if you make it a drop then make it rare. Even Still if one wanted to TR and have every single ED Past Lift Feat they will need to TR at least 12 times which means they have to buy 12 hearts.



    So let’s look at someone who is an epic competionist who had gotten 3 epic destiny past lives on every epic destiny. Ignoring previous Heroic Lives and feats:



    + 222 HP

    +6 to all Ability Scores

    +27 To Hit

    +9 to All Tactical Feats

    +27 Weapon Damage

    +3 (W) Damage

    +540 Spell Points

    +24 Spell Penetration

    +6 DC to all Spells

    +3 Evocation DC

    +99 Elemental Spell Power

    -9% Spell Point Cost

    +99 Radiance/Impulse Spell Power

    +3 Necro DC

    +9 Perform Skill

    +3 Enchantment DC

    +3 Songs per Rest

    +3 Rages P/R

    +15 Concentration

    +6 to All minions

    +15 to all Poison/Disease Resist

    +6 to Reflex Save

    +15 Sneak Attack Damage

    +3 (W) while Sneak Attacking

    +15 to Hit with Ranged

    +3(W) with Bows/Crossbows

    +15 Damage

    +15 to all Elemental Resists

    9/- Damage Reduction

    +30% Heal Amp



    That’s my two Platinum anyways.

  15. #1435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Systern View Post
    While I definitely don't think my proposed ratio is best or anything, I think yours might be too good.

    50k stone per rank means that it is correct to get every destiny to level 1 before TRing. Level 0 ranks are 36k a piece, at Epic quest rates. It becomes a no-brainer to get 36k epic xp for 50k potentially-heroic xp. Also that wouldn't provide benefit just past the 2nd destiny you maxxed (24 ranks per destiny).

    Unless we're just confusing terminology... Ranks are each dot, each skill point. There are 4 ranks per Level, and 5 Levels per destiny.
    Oo sorry i mean ranks as in levels in a destiny. So you can get 5 stones a ED. Or that you don't get any stone for the first level. So you'll get 200-250k total from stones in a lvl 5 ED. Like i said i like the ide, but 200k a stone is a big leap at least on lower levels. Then again like i said in a post before, why cant it be set to sphere that's lost and not a full ED chart. So first in a sphere costs 3 maxed ED to lock in 1 single one. Next time in that Sphere its only 2 maxed for 1 and then 1 for 1. Would not really make it that much of a grind to lock in a full sphere as you only need 6 mil XP. And if you need about the same to make it from 20 to 28 anyhow you'll only need to stick to this 2-3 EDs and max them out.
    What i don't like about the first ide the Devs had was wiping all the ED´s as that's really a lot of XP to grind, making it that you need a fair amount of XP per Epic TR is only a good think to make it last a wile longer. I think the ide of TRing should not be to get stronger from not doing much as the ED´s did, but to get stronger by really doing something over a long period of time like the heroic TR´s have done. And heroic TR´s might not be perfect for a example as there's some drawbacks in later updates for it but its a lot more fun to TR then to simply run the same raid over and over again.

  16. #1436
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habitual.0 View Post
    I have to admit when I first saw this post I was upset but after a day of thinking about it I decided to comment.



    Starting at the Heroic TRing

    Since you are revamping things change the past life feats both passive and active, here are my suggestions:

    Barbarian: Gain 1HP per level of barbarian or 20HP a past life. Stackable 3 times as always would only be an additional 60HP

    Bard: +1 to Enchantment DC plus the already +2 to the current saves

    Cleric: +5 to heal (I hear you are changing things to make the heal skill actually count for heals) plus the current pluses

    Fighter: +2 to attack rolls and to the DC of tactical feats

    Paladin: 10% Heal amp instead of the current 5%

    Ranger: +2 to Hit with a ranged weapon, +3 to damage and +5 to every elemental resist

    Rogue: +1 to reflex, +2 save for traps, +3 to disable traps and +5 Sneak attack damage

    Sorcerer: +1 Evocation DC as normal +50SP and +10 to elemental damage

    Wizard: +10 Universal spell power, +2 Spell Pen as normal Something like wand mastery for wand usage

    Monk: +2 to attack rolls, +1 to damage and +5 to concentration

    Favored Soul: +10 to light/Impulse damage +1 Spell Pen and +50 SP

    Primal Avatar: +2 to all minion stats, +5 Resistance to Poison and Disease

    Shadow Dancer: +1 Dexterity, +2 to reflex, +5 Sneak Attack Damage, +1 (W) when sneak attacking

    Shiradi Champion: +5 to Hit ranged, +1 (W) with a bow, +5 Damage, +5 to all elemental damage

    Unyielding Sentinel: 3/- Damage reduction, +25 HP, +10% Heal Amp





    In summery; What I fear most is that you guys are making decisions based on getting more money. I do not think that Turbine yet realizes that if they made an awesome game people would flock to it.



    These changes would bring several things I feel. The new Heroic Past Life feats would make people want to TR the Heroic levels again/more. (These should be retroactive I think, Perhaps make people do a Lesser TR to get the changes or something. If you absolutely HAVE to make people get these over again then I suggest keeping the old ones and letting people also have the new versions. I think that would reward those players who have been with you the longest instead of shafting those players completely with taking them away AND making them redo those lives)



    In order to TR the Epic Destiny Stuff, you will have to buy a heart of wood which I think we all understand. Personally I wouldn’t allow for an in game option or if you make it a drop then make it rare. Even Still if one wanted to TR and have every single ED Past Lift Feat they will need to TR at least 12 times which means they have to buy 12 hearts.



    So let’s look at someone who is an epic competionist who had gotten 3 epic destiny past lives on every epic destiny. Ignoring previous Heroic Lives and feats:



    + 222 HP

    +6 to all Ability Scores

    +27 To Hit

    +9 to All Tactical Feats

    +27 Weapon Damage

    +3 (W) Damage

    +540 Spell Points

    +24 Spell Penetration

    +6 DC to all Spells

    +3 Evocation DC

    +99 Elemental Spell Power

    -9% Spell Point Cost

    +99 Radiance/Impulse Spell Power

    +3 Necro DC

    +9 Perform Skill

    +3 Enchantment DC

    +3 Songs per Rest

    +3 Rages P/R

    +15 Concentration

    +6 to All minions

    +15 to all Poison/Disease Resist

    +6 to Reflex Save

    +15 Sneak Attack Damage

    +3 (W) while Sneak Attacking

    +15 to Hit with Ranged

    +3(W) with Bows/Crossbows

    +15 Damage

    +15 to all Elemental Resists

    9/- Damage Reduction

    +30% Heal Amp



    That’s my two Platinum anyways.
    At first glance your upgrades seem to be extremely overpowered in many areas. Also, I believe it's been mentioned that destiny past lives are currently not intended to stack 3 times, only once. I think the non stacking nature may be a blessing in disguise as we may see past lives that are a bit more powerful as the devs can design them knowing that powergamers won't have 3x that advantage over first lifers or casuals, bringing the power level between the two closer together, keeping power creep to a minimum, while offering a more powerful past life than you can have in heroic (due to it's stacking potential).
    Last edited by redspecter23; 06-18-2013 at 03:12 PM.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  17. #1437
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DagazUlf View Post
    Option 1 is completely unacceptable.

    Option 2 is getting somewhat closer to realistic.

    Keep working on it.
    My sentiments exactly
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

    "Of course it is. Are YOU going to question beholder's artistic sense?"

  18. #1438
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDOForumAccount View Post
    Yes, of course. Except when the starting destiny is the "off" destiny. Melee bards. Artificers. Arcanes wanting Shiradi due to the horrible way saves work in epics. Melee divines. Tucaws/juggernauts/other weird multiclasses. Archers with less than 6 ranger levels. Caster Druids. Many others I'm sure.

    A sorcerer in the preferred ED requires a ranger-life or 3 "off" destinies to enter the desired ED,
    ^^ You make some good points here. I had forgotten to consider there are only 11 ED's for 13 classes. Also, I haven't much DDO experience in multi-classing, particularly at epic levels. I will keep these in mind should a planned life prove difficult for a given ED.


    so you are way off base in saying the player chooses to grind the wrong destinies. But, I guess in your world everybody is a healer, a rogue or a fighter.
    Ad hominem statements embedded in even a good argument can weaken that argument by drawing attention away from the good points one makes.


    Anyway, back to the valid portion of your argument.

    I still see my assertion as accurate; however, the points you make help me to see that its scope is narrower than I had thought. I now see that it applies only to planned characters. As such, I can see how the creators of spontaneous toons may feel as though I am criticizing their approach, and this is not my intent.
    I sometimes like to create a toon without planning it out. It can feel more real, in a way, having to deal with "unforeseen" hiccups along the way.

    Even so, a player makes a choice in either case. We are none of us "forced" to pick any given style of play, and this is why the "unfun" nature of grinding "off" ED's has no bearing on whether the XP Bank option is a good solution.
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  19. #1439
    Community Member Systern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habitual.0 View Post
    I have to admit when I first saw this post I was upset but after a day of thinking about it I decided to comment.


    <snip>
    In order to TR the Epic Destiny Stuff, you will have to buy a heart of wood which I think we all understand. Personally I wouldn’t allow for an in game option or if you make it a drop then make it rare. Even Still if one wanted to TR and have every single ED Past Lift Feat they will need to TR at least 12 times which means they have to buy 12 hearts.
    <snip>
    Awwwwwwww Hyellllll Noooooo...

    The game does not need more double standards, fractured systems, and New Systems Trumping Old Ones.

    Heroic Commendations already are Epic Raid Tokens that you can't use Raid Tokens for.
    The cost of Lahar's augments has never been revisited from the 20 dungeon token cost they were previously. (and they need a recipe in Astral Shards, ditto Gianthold augment vendors)
    There's really not a lot to do with Tokens of the Twelve these days.
    Making a New heart that's not available in game is just another instance of abandoning the foundations of the game in an effort to extort more cash from the players.

  20. #1440

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    I still see my assertion as accurate; however, the points you make help me to see that its scope is narrower than I had thought. I now see that it applies only to planned characters. As such, I can see how the creators of spontaneous toons may feel as though I am criticizing their approach, and this is not my intent.
    I sometimes like to create a toon without planning it out. It can feel more real, in a way, having to deal with "unforeseen" hiccups along the way.[/indent]
    Uh, no. It has nothing to do with "planned" versus "spontaneous."

    Consider if I want to roll up a brand new shirardi sorc. You tell me: What destiny do I pick as my first one?

    How about a fury of the wild paladin? The starting destiny would be...?

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