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  1. #1101
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    You want people to TR at 28 instead of 20?

    give twice the benefit.

    Problem solved.

    No need to mess with EDs at all.

    This is a simple issue with a simple solution.

  2. #1102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    You want people to TR at 28 instead of 20?

    give twice the benefit.

    Problem solved.

    No need to mess with EDs at all.

    This is a simple issue with a simple solution.
    Well to be fair, they are offering twice the benefit. Heroic past life and Destiny past life. It's the destiny removal that's the issue here. You are gaining a double benefit, but the cost is just way too high initially.
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  3. #1103
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    So where are we on page 55? Anyone defending this stupid change besides the completely insane?
    New cosmetic pet: the burning pitchfork!!! It only costs 3 tier 5 epic destinies...




    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Player Goals
    1. Some players do not like epic and therefore are against a disincentive to heroic TR.
    2. Many players agree that epic TR is almost a good idea. The main breaking points are twofold. Firstly, the reneging on Turbine's part about epic destiny xp carrying through a TR and the complete removal of any player effort put into the destinies. I consider these two very different points, but probably the two most important for Turbine to address.
    3. Players for the most part are very much in favor of some sort of reduced grind, whether it comes from an easier xp curve or epic advantage, but it's important that epic advantage be optional for many players as it could effect their playgroups if they don't start at the same point.
    4. Many players would be much less annoyed by the removal of all destinies if fate points are retained. Some players want the potential to accumulate even more fate points, though this doesn't seem to be a make or break point.
    I also hope that turbine will give us plenty of content to get from Level25 to Level28 in this process as weel. I also hope that they don't decided to raise the level cap to 40 and create another gimmick TR system that invalidates all of the work that they are doing here.....
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

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  4. #1104
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    I hope that turbine will give us plent of content to get from Level25 to Level28 in this process as weel. I also hope that they don't decided to raise the level cap to 40 and create another gimmick TR system that invalidates all of the work that they are doing here.....
    Hopefully that issue is meant to be addressed at least party by the potential adjustment to the xp curves. I'd like to think that they know that will be an issue and are tweaking the curve so that we will have enough content to get us to 28. Until we have more info on that particular issue, I don't want to sharpen up my pitchfork just yet. They could easily mess it up, but there is no solid proposal yet to offer any reaction to. Past experience tells me they have offered excess grind in particular areas (level 18-20) on purpose in order to sell grind removal pots, er xp pots in the store. This is my only logical conclusion to the abysmal xp offered in Amrath and Cannith. The devs are quite aware that it's too low, but can't raise it due to the potential loss of store pots. The problem with that thought process is that I'm not buying a pot and running that low xp content. I'm simply just ignoring that content altogether. It's not a great way to design a game, but this game now has a monetary issue that the devs need to work with unfortunately. In the old days of monthly subscription, there would be little to no reason to design poor xp quests into the endgame on purpose.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 06-16-2013 at 03:13 PM.
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  5. #1105
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    Default Requested feedback?

    I am pretty sure Turbine is well aware of how we feel about the ED XP issue by now.

    That probably fits under the question of how the proposed changes will affect our playing style.

    Sadly, this issue has distracted most of us from another important question:

    What ideas might we have for ED PL feats?

    Only a small number of people have offered anything in that vein. Can we focus discussion on this, now?
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  6. #1106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delacroix21 View Post
    I used to like leveling a new character from 1-20, TR XP penalty now makes me hate it.


    I LOVE the quest chains in Eveningstar, please don't make hate them too with a large XP penalty.
    If you consider it to be a discount for 1st and 2nd lifers, then it's a lot easier to plan your levelling appropriately

    There's seriously no need to reduce the Heroic XP curve though, when you've got people already doing them in 3 days, or in a weekend with a stone of experience, then there's no reason to.

  7. #1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    You want people to TR at 28 instead of 20?

    give twice the benefit.

    Problem solved.

    No need to mess with EDs at all.

    This is a simple issue with a simple solution.
    Picking up an Iconic Past Life Feat and an ED Past Life Feat would work as twice the benefit, that's certainly what I'm planning to do with how I think it'll work when it goes live.

    And that's fair enough if you choose to Epic TR and are interested in picking up the Epic Completionist Feat. It's touching anything to do with Heroic TRing that's the sticking point.

  8. #1108
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    Default Refresh

    I would hate for this to get lost. Tyrande gives us a place to start re ED PL suggestions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrande View Post
    True. What is more to gain when you have gained every level and every destiny and every twist? D&D is unlimited and I think DDO should be.

    As for destiny feats, here are some of my ideas:

    Past Life: Magister: You were a Magister in an epic past life. You occasionally find yourself the urge to have acquired more information from good arcane spell books. You now have +5 DC, +5 Spell Penetration, +50 Negative Spell Power and have learnt the Epic Spell Seed: Dispel

    Past Life: Draconic Incarnation: You were a Draconic Incarnate in an epic past life. You occasionally find yourself dreaming of giving bad breath to others. You now have +50 base Spell Power from of the color of your draconic heritage and also acquired the Epic Spell Seed: Energy

    Past Life: Fate Singer:You were a Fate Singer in an epic past life. You occasionally find yourselves inspiring people to do the best in their jobs. You now have +50 Sonic Spell Power and all your crowd control spells and songs are double(?) in length. (*spells stack with extend metamagic feat)

    Past Life: Shadowdancer:You were a Shadowdancer in an epic past life. People have a hard to time keep track of you and instead found your shadows. You now have an additional +5 to your Assassinate DC; and can cast the special Shadow Training IV dimension door 5 times per rest (without using spell points), 3 minutes cool down.

    Past Life: Grandmaster of Flowers:You were a Grandmaster of Flowers in an epic past life. You were a Ki Master and occasionally you find yourselves aware of the free flow of Ki in your body. You now have +50 base Force Spell Power and +50 additional Ki upon resting.

    Past Life: Exalted Angel:You were an exalted angel in an epic past life. You occasionally found yourselves judging and smiting evil. You now have +50 base Light Spell Power and also acquired the Epic Spell Seed: Heal.

    Past Life: Unyielding Sentinel:You were an unyielding sentinel in an epic past life. You occasionally dream of providing stunts and shield other people from hurting. You now have +50 Positive Spell Power and also acquired the Epic Spell Seed: Ward.

    Past Life: Legendary Dreadnought:You were a legendary dreadnought in an epic past life. You occasionally dream of blitzing through a full dungeon leaving a bloody trail. You now have +5 Tactical DC to your tactical skills (stun, trip, sunder) and +5 damage with your melee weapons

    Past Life: Shiradi Champion:You were a Shiradi Champion in an epic past life. You thought you were a fey Eladrin in your dreams and excel in ranged attacks. You gained +5 ranged damage and +5 untyped spell damage per cast. Additionally, you gained the Epic Spell Seed: Reflect.

    Past Life: Fury of the Wild:You were a barbaric wild folk in an epic past life. You occasionally found yourselves behave wildly and dream about masters of pain delivery and reception. Every hit you inflict a shaken effect and enemies have a random 10%(?) chance of frozen in place in awe of your prowess.

    Past Life: Primal Avatar:You were a primal avatar in an epic past life. You occasionally found yourselves have the urge to play around with fury animals and imagined yourselves being wrapped in green natural goodness. Any pets, summons, hireling you have 15% alacrity and +5 levels. You also gained the Epic Spell Seed: Life.



    Epic Destiny Completionist: +2 to every skills, Ability (stat points), DR, PRR, Doublestrike, Spell Power that does not require a feat like regular heroic completionist and is an automatic built-in feat once the conditions are met. Your TR wings are now golden in color rather than white for regular TR people. Requires: Every Bond Epic Destiny Past Life. New Destinies when released will automatically turned off Epic Destiny Completionist from your feats list.
    He went to the effort of addressing this part of the OP. Can we show him the respect of considering his thoughts instead of burying them, please?
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  9. #1109
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    I am pretty sure Turbine is well aware of how we feel about the ED XP issue by now.

    That probably fits under the question of how the proposed changes will affect our playing style.

    Sadly, this issue has distracted most of us from another important question:

    What ideas might we have for ED PL feats?

    Only a small number of people have offered anything in that vein. Can we focus discussion on this, now?
    Destiny Past Life Feats

    Dreadnaught - your tactical abilities have their cooldown reduced by 20%
    Grandmaster - you may use wisdom for all your tactics instead of strength if wisdom bonus is higher
    Shadowdancer - when you kill an enemy, 1% chance to annihilate their soul, dealing 100d6 negative damage to all mobs in wide radius and heal you 100d6 hp.
    Fury of the Wild - while raged, your weapons gain vorpal
    Primal Avatar - while shapeshifted, unarmed or 2 weapon fighting, your attacks deal +1 [w]
    Shiradi - 7% chance to produce a random effect on any ranged/spell attack.
    Magister - Summons/hireling all come into play with resist 50 (all elements), +4 to all ability scores, haste, shield, greater heroism, rage, +50 PRR, +100%hp, +30 dc to their offensive tactics and spells. You gain +1 dc to your spells
    Draconic - once per day you can shapeshift into a dragon for 30 seconds (think Tor dragons)
    Fatesinger - your songs have a 50% chance to apply hp/sp regen effect
    Sentinel - Any item or effect that adds AC/dodge/PRR to your character has that increased by 1.
    Exalted Angel - Every time you cast a single target heal spell on an ally, you have a 5% chance to apply a sunburst type effect to mobs, centered on that ally.

    Just some initial thoughts thrown down here.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 06-16-2013 at 03:35 PM.
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  10. #1110
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    There are a few issues with this line of thinking. Players feel there is a massive difference in game play between heroic and epic. It's a different style of game and some players don't want to play epic and any suggestion from the devs that these sort of players should be encouraged to play epic more often is seen as a lack of understanding their playstyles. These players don't necessarily want to epic TR. They are still happy using heroic TR as they have been. Any incentive of epic TR isn't an incentive to players that perfer heroic content. It certainly doesn't make up for the change in heroic TR mechanics.
    Redspecter's whole post is something that the Devs need to pay attention to. I would like to expand a bit on the above paragraph in Redspecter's post because I don't think the Devs really understand how different heroic and epic play is. And before I begin, yes Epic Normal and Epic Hard aren't difficult to beat since the can be soloed by most players, but still there are things that need to be addressed.

    Epic mobs are bloated HP and many of the tools given to melees don't scale. When there are mobs with +10k HP, doing an extra 100 damage on vorpal hits (not just with vorpals but other abilities also) means nothing. Additionally, instant killing these mobs when they are less than 1000 HP is just a joke because the mob would be dead in the next few swings anyway. So for melees, beating down epic mobs is just a longer process than the heroic mobs since melees abilities don't scale.

    Summons don't scale in Epics. Since MOTU was released (or just prior to its release), summons got broken in both Epics and heroic quests. Hezrou demons could actually last in Epics before the changes to summons. Air elementals.were useful and lasted in Epics also. Some of the other summons also worked. Today, I think the only summons that are decent in Epics are a few of the Xoriat summons and the Epic Thaarak Hound (or at least that's what I've heard since personally getting Sand Epics is near impossible). Unless something has changed since I last played in Magister, even the Epic summons are impotent wastes of SP. I know I lost complete interest in the Epic Summons when the Succubus didn't have any CC and spent all her time doing almost no melee damage.

    Are bards even useful in Epics outside of buffing? I've always heard that bards don't work in Epics because CCing Epic mobs with the bards abilities don't work. If Bards can work in epics, that's definitely not the perception that I see in game. In Epics, bards appear to have the single role of buffing everyone else and that's pretty much it.

    Then there's the DC caster that appears to be dead in Epics. Instead all casters need to be in Shiradi to be useful. If this isn't true, it's at least that's the perception--much like the former meme all rogues must be Assassins to join group. BTW, there's only one type of caster that can avoid the Martial sphere to get to Shiradi.

    I'm sure I'm missing some of other stuff that sets Epic appear from heroic quests that might be turning some players away from doing Epics. I know I've ran into some players who haven't tried Epics since before MOTU, so they still have that perception of epics also. These are also the same people who avoid Epics because of the Scroll/Seal/Shards, and to be truthful most Epic players avoid those quests because grinding for those inferior Epic items is futile.

  11. #1111
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Destiny Past Life Feats

    Dreadnaught - your tactical abilities have their cooldown reduced by 20%
    Grandmaster - you may use wisdom for all your tactics instead of strength if wisdom bonus is higher
    Shadowdancer - when you kill an enemy, 1% chance to annihilate their soul, dealing 100d6 negative damage to all mobs in wide radius and heal you 100d6 hp.
    Fury of the Wild - while raged, your weapons gain vorpal
    Primal Avatar - while shapeshifted, unarmed or 2 weapon fighting, your attacks deal +1 [w]
    Shiradi - 7% chance to produce a random effect on any ranged/spell attack.
    Magister - Summons/hireling all come into play with resist 50 (all elements), +4 to all ability scores, haste, shield, greater heroism, rage, +50 PRR, +100%hp, +30 dc to their offensive tactics and spells. You gain +1 dc to your spells
    Draconic - once per day you can shapeshift into a dragon for 30 seconds (think Tor dragons)
    Fatesinger - your songs have a 50% chance to apply hp/sp regen effect
    Sentinel - Any item or effect that adds AC/dodge/PRR to your character has that increased by 1.
    Exalted Angel - Every time you cast a single target heal spell on an ally, you have a 5% chance to apply a sunburst type effect to mobs, centered on that ally.

    Just some initial thoughts thrown down here.
    Nice, I see you have been giving it some thought.

    I particularly like the one for Shadowdancer.

    Fury is a little limited, though. As proposed, ED PL's are stackable X3.
    Maybe a new type of Vorpal for epic levels?
    Heroic Vorpal only adds 100 hp dmg on mobs with 1000+ HP
    First Fury PL grants Epic Vorpal while raging - +200 hp dmg on mobs with 2000+ HP
    Second grants Epic Vorpal while raging - +300 hp dmg on mobs with 3000+ HP
    Third grants Epic Vorpal while raging - +400 hp dmg on mobs with 4000+ HP
    In short, Fury PL grants Epic Vorpal, which gives +1000 to max Vorpal cap and +100 to damage done to mobs with HP over cap.

    It has been a while since I have run epics, so numbers may need to be adjusted to be appropriate for epic mob HP levels.
    What do you think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    I would hate for this to get lost. Tyrande gives us a place to start re ED PL suggestions.

    He went to the effort of addressing this part of the OP. Can we show him the respect of considering his thoughts instead of burying them, please?
    I'll speak for myself, but if the ED XP gets wiped then the rest of what Glin revealed has little concern for me since it will be a game killer for me, even though I like most of everything else he's proposed.

    Besides, how can we give suggestions for the ED Past Life when we haven't been told much about them? Do we automatically acquire them at level 1 or must we wait to level 20? Will the ED Past Life be passive feat or do we only get a chance of purchasing the feat or will it be both (like the current Past Life feats)? Will these ED Past Life feats be acquirable multiple times?

    It's kind of silly for us to give suggestions on what the ED Past Life feats should be when we haven't been given such basic information. It's even sillier for Glin to ask for our input on the feats without giving us the basic information as when the ED Past Life feats will start affecting players.

  13. #1113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    So where are we on page 55? Anyone defending this stupid change besides the completely insane?
    You simply don't understand the proposal. Go find Hendrik, and he will explain to you why you are confused.

    And really, the broken concept of erasing all Epic Destiny XP upon Epic or Heroic TR needs to be settled before worrying about the details of Epic past life feats. If virtually no one is going to Epic TR because they would have all of their Epic Destiny XP arbitrarily reset, it really doesn't matter what the past life feats are.

  14. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    If you consider it to be a discount for 1st and 2nd lifers, then it's a lot easier to plan your levelling appropriately

    There's seriously no need to reduce the Heroic XP curve though, when you've got people already doing them in 3 days, or in a weekend with a stone of experience, then there's no reason to.
    Levels 18-20 take far too long to complete. That was fine when the game was level cap 20, but if we're now really going to be playing a level 28 game, something needs to be done. It's ridiculous that level 18-20 takes as long as it does. It doesn't matter if some power gamer is doing it in 3 days. He may be doing everything faster than almost everybody else, but he's spending too much time between 18-20.

    I do agree that current XP cap is OK. The problem isn't so much that the XP required is too great; it's that the XP/quest is too small. Increasing the amount of XP per quest in the Inspired Quarter, Reign of Madness, Cannith, and Amrath would make the TR grind a lot more palatable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tscheuss View Post
    Nice, I see you have been giving it some thought.

    I particularly like the one for Shadowdancer.

    Fury is a little limited, though. As proposed, ED PL's are stackable X3.
    Maybe a new type of Vorpal for epic levels?
    Heroic Vorpal only adds 100 hp dmg on mobs with 1000+ HP
    First Fury PL grants Epic Vorpal while raging - +200 hp dmg on mobs with 2000+ HP
    Second grants Epic Vorpal while raging - +300 hp dmg on mobs with 3000+ HP
    Third grants Epic Vorpal while raging - +400 hp dmg on mobs with 4000+ HP
    In short, Fury PL grants Epic Vorpal, which gives +1000 to max Vorpal cap and +100 to damage done to mobs with HP over cap.

    It has been a while since I have run epics, so numbers may need to be adjusted to be appropriate for epic mob HP levels.
    What do you think?
    What do I think? I think talking about this is a pointless distraction. At the moment (virtually) nobody cares about these feats since nobody will want to TR after this awful change. Rather than focusing on what type of power creep you'd like to see implemented that invalidates any non-multi-Epic-TR build, let's focus on the real problem at hand.

    Sorry to be harsh, but ... you asked what I think.

  16. #1116
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    If you consider it to be a discount for 1st and 2nd lifers, then it's a lot easier to plan your levelling appropriately

    There's seriously no need to reduce the Heroic XP curve though, when you've got people already doing them in 3 days, or in a weekend with a stone of experience, then there's no reason to.
    I find the issue is not so much the time it takes to get from 1 to 20 or from 1 to 25. My issue is that from 1-16 is a breeze. 16-18 is a bit more effort and some grind. 18-20 is a large amount of time and grind. 20-22 is fast as lightning. 22-24 a bit slower. 24-25 longish (but still nothing compared to 18-20).

    So hopefully by "smoothing the curve" you lose that massive grind bump in the 18-20 range without making the whole thing an easy button with zero grind or effort. Take some of the 18-20 bump and spread it around while also adding 26-28. I can see the whole thing taking about the same amount of time, but with a steady increase instead of the "want to shoot yourself in the head because of the grind" 18-20 being the worst part of any full TR from 1 - 28.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standal View Post
    Levels 18-20 take far too long to complete. That was fine when the game was level cap 20, but if we're now really going to be playing a level 28 game, something needs to be done. It's ridiculous that level 18-20 takes as long as it does. It doesn't matter if some power gamer is doing it in 3 days. He may be doing everything faster than almost everybody else, but he's spending too much time between 18-20.

    I do agree that current XP cap is OK. The problem isn't so much that the XP required is too great; it's that the XP/quest is too small. Increasing the amount of XP per quest in the Inspired Quarter, Reign of Madness, Cannith, and Amrath would make the TR grind a lot more palatable.
    This is pretty much how I feel also. The Devs kept the XP low for the upper Heroics to extend the endgame when the cap was 20. However, they didn't adjust and continue to not adjust the XP for those quests since MOTU came out.

    From what I read in Glin's posts, the Devs aren't thinking about boosting the XP in these quests, but leveling out the XP across the board. If this is the case, I think they are just going to add a new XP problem in Heroics. Let's say they flatten the XP needed for upper heroic levels but bump up the lower and/or mid heroic levels. This will present a new problem in both areas, in my mind. In the lower levels, the XP needed can't be boosted too much, because quest give junk XP. Even though several of the quests from levels give decent XP, the mid-heroic levels have some of the least populated quest selection in the game. If the repeat penalty isn't fixed and the XP needed to get to level 28 increases to any degree, the mid-heroics (GH and Sands) are going to become the new XP problem area if players want to cap.

    I've pointed it out before, but the number of quests from levels 12 to 19 is half the number found from level 1 to 11. Additionally, the current number of quests from 20 to 25 is half that of 12 to 19, yet it's the upper heroic quests that continue to have junk XP.

    Edit: Blah. Apparently the new censors came in and made a word bad. Next thing you know, they'll censor the word "saTURDay"
    Last edited by oradafu; 06-16-2013 at 04:42 PM.

  18. #1118
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    Quote Originally Posted by oradafu View Post
    This is pretty much how I feel also. The Devs kept the XP low for the upper Heroics to extend the endgame when the cap was 20. However, they didn't adjust and continue to not adjust the XP for those quests since MOTU came out.

    From what I read in Glin's posts, the Devs aren't thinking about boosting the XP in these quests, but leveling out the XP across the board. If this is the case, I think they are just going to add a new XP problem in Heroics. Let's say they flatten the XP needed for upper heroic levels but bump up the lower and/or mid heroic levels. This will present a new problem in both areas, in my mind. In the lower levels, the XP needed can't be boosted too much, because quest give junk XP. Even though several of the quests from levels give decent XP, the mid-heroic levels have some of the least populated quest selection in the game. If the repeat penalty isn't fixed and the XP needed to get to level 28 increases to any degree, the mid-heroics (GH and Sands) are going to become the new XP problem area if players want to cap.

    I've pointed it out before, but the number of quests from levels 12 to 19 is half the number found from level 1 to 11. Additionally, the current number of quests from 20 to 25 is half that of 12 to 19, yet it's the upper heroic quests that continue to have junk XP.

    Edit: Blah. Apparently the new censors came in and made a word bad. Next thing you know, they'll censor the word "saTURDay"
    My even larger worry is that they'll mess around with too many popular xp midrange quests in the process. I'm all for some adjustments to quests like VoN3 and Shadow Crypt, but there is a careful balance here that needs to be closely monitored. If those are to be lowered, then others in a similar level range need to be adjusted upward to fill the void. I just hope the entire xp system doesn't get Turbined.
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  19. #1119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standal View Post
    Levels 18-20 take far too long to complete. That was fine when the game was level cap 20, but if we're now really going to be playing a level 28 game, something needs to be done. It's ridiculous that level 18-20 takes as long as it does. It doesn't matter if some power gamer is doing it in 3 days. He may be doing everything faster than almost everybody else, but he's spending too much time between 18-20.

    I do agree that current XP cap is OK. The problem isn't so much that the XP required is too great; it's that the XP/quest is too small. Increasing the amount of XP per quest in the Inspired Quarter, Reign of Madness, Cannith, and Amrath would make the TR grind a lot more palatable.
    wile I will agree that quests like in IQ and Cannith reward little xp, I cant agree that 18-20 takes as long to level through as some say. I could see if you don't have all the packs or have completed or farmed out all quests up to 18, but I know its been suggested by me and many others that not touching Vale until 18 makes it so much easier, which is not hard to do with elite BB. by doing that and still having Refuge, plus the easy to farm IQ quests if you don't mind doing that (I only do them 3 times max each E/H/N), plus I do think Amrath xp is not bad and you can skip Invasion if you want to keep elite BB. I do little farming in that level range and I consider it downhill when I do hit 18. with all that said, I wouldn't be against adding more quests with better xp rewards in that level range.

  20. #1120
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Toronto, Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qhualor View Post
    wile I will agree that quests like in IQ and Cannith reward little xp, I cant agree that 18-20 takes as long to level through as some say. I could see if you don't have all the packs or have completed or farmed out all quests up to 18, but I know its been suggested by me and many others that not touching Vale until 18 makes it so much easier, which is not hard to do with elite BB. by doing that and still having Refuge, plus the easy to farm IQ quests if you don't mind doing that (I only do them 3 times max each E/H/N), plus I do think Amrath xp is not bad and you can skip Invasion if you want to keep elite BB. I do little farming in that level range and I consider it downhill when I do hit 18. with all that said, I wouldn't be against adding more quests with better xp rewards in that level range.
    There is a problem with the system when you are encouraged by the math involved to save level 16 quests to run when you are effectively aiming for level 20. Personally I'd rather be running level 18/19/20 content in order to chase level 20. You are correct that saving those quests leads to a more efficient leveling process, but it's the entire concept of having to bank lower level good xp quests that I'm bothered by.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

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