Have been watching the thread and been waiting for a Dev to come along and say "April Fools day!" It just isn't happening. A Turbine Rep put out that Epic Destiny XP wouldn't be affected by Heroic TR's, Y'all are violating that promise and giving the proverbial bird to everyone who's played the game based on that statement.
Please, do NOT touch ED XP during heroic TR's. If you absolutely have to reset all ED XP during TR then alter the system to PERMANENTLY bond (1+ E Life) ED's AND all earned fate points. First ETR life you end up with one ED protected, second gives you two ED's protected, third, fourth fifth etc. Additionally, all Unlocked ED's should remain unlocked. I shouldn't have to work my way from Magister back to Shiradi or vice versus. I already unlocked those and should be able to begin leveling any that I had previously unlocked.
Re: earned fate points being different than store bought, during TR process players receive a Bound Tome of Fate +xxx that matches earned + purchased points. Done, fixed and good to go.
May not be a perfect system but at least it lessens some of the impact to every player (including myself) who was foolish enough to believe Turbines stated intent for how Heroic TR's and ED XP would work.
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And I haven't mentioned my new plan that involved not paying Turbine a single dime in the future and giving up on any character progression. Here is how I plan to deal with your wiping of ED xp on TR.
1) I have 2 main characters I really care about: Tajawuka - 3 fighter pl, 2 monk pl, currently level 3 on what will be a monk pl (started last night), all ED's level 5, several maxed. Toolbots - 3 wizard pl, currently 18sorc/2paladin with 4/1/1 twists (whatever that works out to ED xp-wise).
2) Toolbots will never TR again. No epic TR. No TR. I'm not willing to regrind all the ED's I did on him for any amount of benefit. He's playable and I can make him work with feat swaps, spell swaps, enhancement swaps, and at worst an LR.
3) Tajawuka, as I mentioned, just TR'd. Toolbots will make sure he has enough tokens to TR every time he re-caps between now and this monstrosity of an update. My kid's been on my case to start TR'ing again anyways as he has a ton of toons across all the heroic levels. Here's my chance to just do it without worrying about gear because again - my new way of playing DDO is based on two goals - spending $0 with Turbine and having fun. That accomplishes both of those goals.
4) Tajawuka will accumulate as many past lives as possible before this awful change. 3 fighter, 3 monk is pretty much a given seeing as how I have 4 months to finish. Depending on motivation 3 ranger is possible and 3 paladin an outside chance. I like focusing this toon on melee and/or ranged damage and tactics so those should be enough to get the job done.
5) Tajawuka's last life before the doomsday update will very likely be a pure class build. I'll have to see but the goal will be to find some build that has the least chance of requiring a TR to fix ever.
6) Once d-day hits...Tajawuka is done TR'ing forever. I might eventually epic TR...doubt it but it could happen. I would never heroic TR. Turbine has killed that part of the game.
7) I might revive some other toons like my first life pure bard or my crafter (assuming he ever gets to high enough levels that I don't need him to be a dragonmarked arti anymore) both of which have little to no ED xp. Those could benefit from the new system and I wouldn't feel cheated in playing them. But given Turbine's history I wouldn't be willing to open back up the wallet for them. And I certainly wouldn't get attached to anything I'd done. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, I punch your face! (sorry in advance...had to lighten things up a bit and when you have kids you watch cartoons :P)
Last edited by Darkrok; 06-14-2013 at 02:23 PM. Reason: I'm trying to spell here...it's srs bzns
Tajawuka 20 Bladeforged Paladin running divine ETR's (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's, 3 martial epl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue
The implementation is where the thought process breaks down, though.
The idea of Epic PL's is great. It will make people want to go to Epic cap and then TR. As long as the Epic PL's are solid enough. If that was in place from day 1, everyone would think it is great.
You level to 20 and TR you get a heroic PL. You level to 28 and TR you get an Epic PL in whichever capped destiny you choose to "bind" (plus a heroic TR based on your heroic levels). That would make people want to do the epic capping to get the extra PL. Bingo. Incentive to play to cap. That's what they wanted.
The question is: Why is it necessary to reset the ED XP when your do the Epic TR or heroic TR? This is the part of the plan I don't understand. What does it hurt for it to stay? You still have to level all the way to 28 on your next life to get another Epic PL. Having the ED XP still present would not change that. I just don't see any reason you need to reset the ED XP to make the Epic TR and Epic PL system work.
And giving some heroic XP benefit for that XP earned isn't going to make it worthwhile. I don't care if I can do two Heroic TR PL's for free by cashing in my ED XP. I'd rather have the ED XP. This part of the Turbine has come up with is one that destroys months of work for a great deal of the player base for little to no return. And unless I'm missing something, it's totally unnecessary.
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No, I still don't think you do understand the concern. Leveling from 1-20 is easy (especially with those handy XP stones in store if you are in a rush). But what's more important, it can be fun. You see while you level from 1-20 as a <insert class> you are actually a useful character in all the content you are leveling in. On the other hand, ED forces you to spend more time OUTSIDE a destiny than you are useful in than inside.We understand your concern about losing Epic Destiny XP upon reincarnation and not getting enough in return. So, we are investigating some different possibilities in regard to what a character gets after they reincarnate with Epic TR. We’d like to offer a system where the character gets credit for every XP they “burn” from an epic destiny. One scenario for this is that Epic Destiny XP will be converted to heroic XP (using a formula that adjusts for the different rates at which heroic and epic XP are gained). This converted XP would then be used to level up your reincarnated character. This could mean, for example, that a character with a large number of destinies maxed out could immediately level back up to level 20 even as a third life character. Again, this is just an example of one of the things we are considering, but it’s a definite possibility.
To give a concrete example, I'm currently leveling my fighter in LD. I'm having an absolute blast. On the other hand, leveling my sorc in LD was a painful experience that I never want to repeat because the whole LD was USELESS and so they had to stay out of EE content and half the time felt useless in EH. It's not fun. Plus there isn't enough content to avoid grinding quests in EE, unlike Heroic where you truly can run Once on Elite and move on if you want.
Free Heroic levels in no way compensate for lost destines because grinding ED is largely an unfun exercise to begin with.
Actually your new system short circuit Epic play. You see I right now don't want to earn anymore Epic XP once I have ONE destiny in place until U20 since it will all be wasted (see above in terms of why I think it is a waste). If you want the system to be implimented as you are planning, at a MINIMUM you need to bond ALL maxed out EDs that exist on the day update 20 hits so that people have any reason to continue to play Epic until then.1. With the current design, after this system goes live, going through a Heroic TR will burn non-bonded epic destiny XP, but the character will be compensated for the burned XP. In other words, Heroic TR will work just like Epic TR except it will be available at level 20 instead of level cap and it will not grant Epic past life feats. Allowing Heroic TR to preserve ED XP sort of short-circuits the system, providing a weird incentive to avoid epic level play.
And what about sphere unlocks? Especially ones using destiny keys?2. Currently, store bought Fate Points will be preserved after reincarnation. This will not change. We are investigating ways to somehow preserve regular in-game earned Fate Points, but, behind the scenes, they are different than store bought ones, so it is not completely certain that we will be able to preserve them. If we cannot preserve them, we will look for ways to compensate a character for them.
Stay tuned for more info and explanations of this new system proposal early next week.
If we are going to get conversion XP it had better be at a 1:1 rate. I want my 20million XP to do something other than punish me for playing the new DDO ED system that was rolled out last year. And give us the past lives that we technically earned with this new change in game mechanic.
Who short is the planning there? 1 month out??
Most people are going to still want the biggest and the best, and that will come with EPIC TR. Nothing about the current TR system will make people want to EPIC TR any less.
I think you are overestimating the value of Heroic TR. One year ago...that was end-game...today, it is just another small step in the overall process.
I really think you guys have devised a pretty good system, with the exception of the loss of Destinies in Heroic and Iconic TR.
Update 19 is scheduled to hit at the end of August. So that puts the window for this between late Sept and late Dec.
3-6 months is a very short time in program development. I can only hope that it gets bumped out of update 20 so that they can more seriously address the shortcomings of the new system.
"So maybe it's about time we all get a reality check and realize that if you raid, run epics, and have capped toons and worry about ED's TR's and all that jazz, you are a small part of the population of this game, a very small part in fact." -- Ungood
Thank you for the additional post, Piloto.
However, I am still anxious to know if sphere unlocks will be preserved across TRs, and you have not addressed this question. If that is preserved, I think I can just about live with the other changes (as long as I can still choose to start at level 1 if I want, say to play with a friend new to the game). But say I am a first life character, I level up to 20, I start out in a particular sphere, but the destiny I actually want to "bond" is way on the other side of the map. When I eventually decide to ETR on this character, and level up in another class, will I then have access to all the destinies I unlocked in my first life, or will I be limited to the destinies adjacent to the "bonded" destiny?
I think that is a fair exchange. I wouldn't be upset to lose two or three trees of EDs if they were converted to heroic xps at a one-to-one or two-to-one rate.
I don't think in-game fate points should carry over after an ETR. That would be similar to carrying over all your earned feats or enhancement points when you HTR.
I still think losing all epic EDs for an HTR is unnecessary and discourages players who like to run to level cap then TR from playing EDs. Why bother with levels 20+ if everything earned after 20 is lost? Personally I enjoy playing my characters from 1-25, playing all the content one time and then TRing. I can max one ED tree, then gain some points in one or two others, then TR before I'm bored of grinding epic level quests. By the time I get back to 20 on my next life, it's a nice to look forward to all the EDs I've already unlocked, so I can level up in new ones as I level up to 25.
And thanks for soliciting our feedback and interacting with us on this topic. Some of us really appreciate that.
I think turbine has got it all wrong when they think people will ignore epic content to continue playing 2011's end game.
* Heroic TR has nothing to do what so ever with Epic Destines. The key word is EPIC. The incentive to heroic TR is for the heroic PLs which are not so great now and getting more build points/elite quest unlock. You get the normal heroic bonuses and keep your Epic Destines, just like now, you do not get epic perks from HTR. This is non negotiable in my book and I think in most other peoples book as well.
*When you Epic TR at cap you lose all epic xp. My preference would be you go back to level 20 which is where epic levels start in my book but I could swallow going back to level one. You do not lose any Epic Destiny XP UNLESS you bond one to get the past life associated with it. You only lose the destiny xp for the one destiny you have bonded. If you choose not to bond any you do not get the past life bonus but can get the 38 point build bonus. If you choose to bond one destiny you lose 2 fate points seeing as you have just lost 5 destiny levels but you regain them when you re-level that destiny
The incentive to Epic Tr is the get the epic past lives, which I presume will be very very nice. It is fair because each epic past life costs you one maxed out destiny worth of xp and re-leveling to cap. Also each Epic TR should give you the benefit of a heroic TR.
ETR you get: 32, 34, 36 or 38 point build (depending on which life your on) you get a heroic heroic past life (depending on which class you currently are) you also get an Epic past life IF you choose to bond one maxed out destiny if not you don't get a epic past life.
This way there's plenty of reason to TR regardless of whether you are new or a veteran player with maxed out destinies. You encourage epic play via the ETR and its bonuses. You encourage the new system without penalizing players for using YOUR OLD system.
I think most would not care if we don't skip the heroic levels.
I mean right now you seem to want to penalize current players for using your system as if we had cheated somehow and then reward us by allowing us to skip half the game (heroic levels). There is no logic to this.
HTR you get: everything you get currently on live and keep your epic destiny xp fate points but nothing else.
Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 06-14-2013 at 03:01 PM.
Originally Posted by CordovanOriginally Posted by Jendrak
The style of play this doesn't support is those of us who want to knock things out once and for all and then move on to the next thing. I stopped TRing on most of my active toons in order to finish their twists. Because my style of play works better when I can finish something and move on. It may be a mind numbing grind. But its a mind numbing grind that will be over in a few days or weeks and I'll move on with a permanently better toon. So, I already have 4/1/1 twists on all my active melees and 4/2/1 on my arcanes, even ones that have never TRed at all, because destinys and twists were permanent and they could be finished in a discrete amount of time.
TPICKRELL forum identity still broken, 15 weeks and counting... So yet another throw away Forum identity
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