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  1. #341
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
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    Well honestly my idea for new TRs would be:
    Heroic TR - like it is now - no loose of EDs or anything with them.
    Epic TR - TR to lvl 20, loose of xp only in active ED - and thats why past life from the active ED.
    20-28 is still a lot of XP.
    And anything that makes you loose all EDs is just not fun...
    And actually loosing all doesnt make sense. I mean - TR is getting rid of old life and starting new life. OK. But your "current life" is active ED I guess... not all EDs.

  2. #342
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    A feasibel idea might be to bond and remove the xp from the (maxed) destiny that you have chosen at the point of Epic Reincarnation, *leaving all other destinies untouched *, then restarting at level 20 with the Epic Past Life feat from you chosen .

    This could fairly well balanced to would make it wothwile for characters with multiple maxed destinies to reincarnate, while still not making it completely trivial to attain past life feats and keeping some of the replayability value of epic levels.

    Another option could be to wipe all epic xp, but to leave all fate Points from previous lives intact, *and allow new epic XP to build further fate points* (making it possible to eventually have multiple 6th level twists). However, I dislike this idea due to the extreme level of grind it would imply to get even one, let alone several, Epic Past Life feats given that you would have to re-level not only your main destiny but also all the ones you want to get Twists of fate from.

  3. #343
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilII View Post
    A feasibel idea might be to bond and remove the xp from the (maxed) destiny that you have chosen at the point of Epic Reincarnation, *leaving all other destinies untouched *, then restarting at level 20 with the Epic Past Life feat from you chosen .

    This could fairly well balanced to would make it wothwile for characters with multiple maxed destinies to reincarnate, while still not making it completely trivial to attain past life feats and keeping some of the replayability value of epic levels.
    This.

  4. #344

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    @OP/Devs

    Not a fan, sorry.

    I'm not a serial TR player - I prefer to play Epic quests and run Raids at end game - I don't buy into the whole multiple TR "This is SRS Buzniss" game plan.

    And this system is not selling it to me either.

    - 38pts? Meh.
    - Epic Destiny Past Life Feat? Meh if the Heroic ones are anything to go by.

    Oh and the real kicker?

    - LOSE ALL DESTINY XP!! (Except the one I 'lock in'?)
    - ...And gain free Heroic Ranks ... on levels that are easy to steam-roll through on a TR anyway?!..

    No thanks.
    Last edited by Arlathen; 06-13-2013 at 05:47 AM.
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    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  5. #345
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    I like some of the ideas as presented, But the loss of so much i.e. (11 eds worth of exp) that i will have to pay money for seems very unfair, and a good way to lose players.
    I think that the devs need to put a bit more thought in to epic TRs.
    This as presented seems fine for the casual player, but a kick in the teeth for long time players.
    add to the fact that it will cost 10-15$ to tr (this is a guess based on current prices).
    With no in game way to get epic hearts of wood


    To me this seems like a failed thought process.
    Last edited by ixusdnd; 06-13-2013 at 06:08 AM.

  6. #346
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    Well after catching up again in this thread I have three possible pictures of what today's ETR/TR team meeting looks like:

    What I hope:
    Dev 1: Did you see that near universally negative feedback? Wow, people are upset and are making some good points
    Dev 2: Yeah, I think maybe we missed the mark on a few key points and should look some fundamental changes before we implement this
    Team Leader: Alright, let's watch the thread for a couple days, get interactive with the customers, and see what would be a better twist on our plan and make it happen!

    What I expect:
    Dev 1: Did you see that near universally negative feedback? Wow, people are upset and are making some good points
    Dev 2: It's just the forums, they don't mean anything. Besides, two or three people liked the idea
    Team Leader: I agree, we know the game better than the players, I'm sure they will come to love this

    What I fear reality is:
    Dev 1: Did you see that near universally negative feedback? Wow, people are upset and are making some good points
    Dev 2: Yeah, I think maybe we missed the mark on a few key points and should look some fundamental changes before we implement this
    Team Leader: Yeah, I know. But we don't have the time and resources to code such major changes without delaying update 20 and you know management will throw a fit if we do that.
    Dev 1: So we do the same as the enhancement pass and just make little tiny changes and pretend we listened while still dumping the same steaming pile of dung on them?
    Team Leader: You got it!

  7. #347
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Seems that im near the only thats ok with that system.

    To max the 11 ED you just need to spend 1 weekend on rusted blades. Yeah.. big lose. I want my 2 days back ¬¬'

    So i cant understand why peeps are so upset. The actually ED farm its a JOKE in the better case, at least the heroic TR its fun. Spent 2 days on the dungeon? No really.

    Im happy that finally gain a ED take a bit of work instead of faceroll the same 1 min dungeon again and again.

    The only downside, is that situacion was generated by Turbine allowing that ED stupid farm. And now, when they try to fix it.. it generate some backlash.
    Last edited by Skavenaps; 06-13-2013 at 06:29 AM.

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    To max the 11 ED you just need to spend 1 weekend on rusted blades. Yeah.. big lose. I want my 2 days back ¬¬'
    You are an exception, not the norm. Both because most players don't have the full weekends without other responsibilities and activities to do what you are suggesting, and because most players simply won't grind the same quest endlessly for 2 full days.

    Maybe if you made the game fun, instead of treating it like work, you would see why people are upset.

  9. #349
    Hero Vyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    If I am a Fighter20 and TR, I lose all that FIGHTER XP, and get a Fighter past life, but I don't lose anything Wizard-related at all. If they want to have ED TRing, you should lose only the ONE ED you are TRing, not unrelated ones.

    This^is all we need. I already canceled two subs after the so called expansion went on sale. I was going to at least buy the expansion and some packs with the turbine points I have acquired through the years but after reading about the initial design of epic TR I can say if that goes live that will be it for me.

  10. #350
    Community Member Dendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    Epic Advantage


    With any type of True Reincarnation, all Epic Destiny Levels earned will give you an advantage when you rebuild your character, by converting Destiny Levels into Heroic Ranks. Every level of Epic Destiny you have earned will count toward ranks earned for your next life. (Epic Destinies will not carry over to your next life, except those destinies that you have bonded in previous lives with ED TR.)
    This is a terrible terrible idea. The current True Reincarnation system means that there are lots of existing players who are playing at low levels as their reincarnates. This provides a pool of people who can group with new players.

    I always thought the TR system was an awesome way of keeping the low level game alive and the low level game draws in new players

    Here is how to do it in a player and game friendly way:
    The Epic Advantage should be a "Stone if Epic Advantage" type thing. It should have a number of charges equal to my Epic Destiny ranks when I TR. I can use the stone to take a Heroic Rank whenever I like. If I want to use it at level 1, then great, if I want to save it up to use at level 16 to power me up to 20 then let me.

    Upon TRing any existing Stone of Epic Advantage in my inventory/cache/bank should be destroyed before the new one is granted. (or get Kruz to check and make sure I don't have one).
    Last edited by Dendrix; 06-13-2013 at 06:50 AM.

  11. #351
    Community Member canisll's Avatar
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    I think with this System you're going to get balancing Problems...
    11 PLs for EDs, and what 4 PLs for iconics, each stackable 3 times. That adds up...
    It's already enough as it is.

    I'd rather you adapt heroic XP Progression and Epic XP Progression, add new EDs over time and allow TRing out of and into Iconics.
    Leave it at that, imo.
    Maybe add new difficulties to test ones mettle (True Elite on Heroic Levels and True Epic on Epic Levels) and new quests.

    It's just raising the cap to 28 will be enough to make endgame range really narrow at the Moment.
    Add the power of PLs and stuff...
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  12. #352
    Community Member Skavenaps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    You are an exception, not the norm. Both because most players don't have the full weekends without other responsibilities and activities to do what you are suggesting, and because most players simply won't grind the same quest endlessly for 2 full days.

    Maybe if you made the game fun, instead of treating it like work, you would see why people are upset.
    im pretty sure im the "normal" on the forum with that high lvl of elitism of it. Maybe who dont overfarm the dungeons and dont visit the forum its the "normal" part of the game.

    But as i dont have the numbers and also you dont, its pointless to argue about that.

  13. #353
    Community Member Dendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    Iconic True Reincarnation
    I am currently a heroic completionist and I have the Completionist feat.
    My question is this; How do Iconic TR's affect my Completionist feat?

    Do I have to do lives as each Iconic to reacqurie this feat?
    Are they completly independent of Completionist?

  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilindith View Post
    I would have liked that 35 lives ago.

    If you make it easier can I have free extra lives based on the difference between old and new amount of experience required to cap a TR? Cause, you know, you'd be invalidating millions worth of acquired exp.
    Smoothing the curve doesn't read to me that they are reducing the xp requirement. Just moving it around a bit. Likely making it a bit less back loaded so the needed xp falls more into the levels where enough content to get it is.

  15. #355
    Community Member Dendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glin View Post
    (Epic Destinies will not carry over to your next life, except those destinies that you have bonded in previous lives with ED TR.)
    This is the problem. Introducing this a year after the existing system is in place, removing all the stuff I have gained.

    Here's a suggestion to mitigate that:
    upon the release of U20 I get to choose one existing destiney in each completed sphere and bond that destiny.
    (by completed sphere I mean all destinies in that sphere have to be at 24 points).

    For current Epic Completionists that means I mark 4 as completed, and a 5th when I TR again (once I reach 28). Which is slightly less than half of the destinies (5 out of 11), but I'm not losing everything.
    Last edited by Dendrix; 06-13-2013 at 09:59 AM.

  16. #356
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skavenaps View Post
    To max the 11 ED you just need to spend 1 weekend on rusted blades. Yeah.. big lose. I want my 2 days back ¬¬'

    So i cant understand why peeps are so upset.
    about 20 million XP for capping all EDs
    about 2 mins per Rusted Blades run
    about 20k XP per run

    20 million / 20k * 2 = 2000 mins = 33 hours

    33 hours of rusted blades? no thanks

  17. #357
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    I think something else that hasn't really been touched on is the fact that there is no natural stopping point for EDTR. Compare to heroic TR. Say I put in 5 lives in a row, but then want to remain capped for a while. Currently, I do that, gain some epic destiny xp and run some endgame content with my guildies. Nothing is "wasted". I don't lose anything.

    Now under the new proposed system once I do my first EDTR (and lose all but one destiny), then cap, I have a decision to make. I can stay at cap, newly underpowered and regrind some destinies only to have the excess xp essentially wiped away upon my next EDTR (this impending xp loss will always be nagging away at me in the back of my mind) or flip over right away. The new system encourages me to reflip my character right away and stay at it until I'm finally "done" and have all my twists back. Basically, once you start down the EDTR path you don't have any natural stopping points to take a break from that grind. You can stop of course, but you also know that the effort you put in at that stop will all be taken away later.

    This is a "feel bad" feeling and should be avoided by game designers whenever possible. Give me "feel good" feelings about your system, possibly while accomplishing the same goals on the design end. Don't make me feel like I "have" to do something or have my time wasted.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  18. #358
    Community Member Ykt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto View Post
    • True Reincarnation has always been about giving up your current life in exchange for increased power in your next life.
    Then reverse the change made to Tomes of Ability so we lose used +4 and +5 Tomes on TR.

  19. #359
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm sorry but I don't understand your point and I don't want to wrongly flame you.

    But what about this system is good?

    Losing ED XP on a heroic TR is not acceptable under any circumstance. I'll simply never TR anything again.
    I agree that it really sucks for folks who have already maxed out the destinies. It's a tough pill to swallow after so much time has already been put into destinies over the past year.

    I am and have been a Turbine appologist for a long time, and I don't see that changing. However, Turbine missed the boat by not rolling this out at when we first were exposed to destinies.

    I think that in reailty, the proposed upgrade to TR'ng is pretty good. I would however allow players to keep all destiny progress when the either heroic TR or Iconic TR. But what really sucks is that they are going to roll this out a year or more after detinies were introduced. In my opinion, its just too big of a penalty on the playesrs who have already invested so much into their destinies so far.

    If they had rolled this system out last July, I am sure that no one would have complained at all.

    It's not a bad system, but is seems will be poorly implemented and poorly timed.

  20. #360
    Community Member kinggartk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ykt View Post
    then reverse the change made to tomes of ability so we lose used +4 and +5 tomes on tr.
    shhhh!!!!

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