Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 63
  1. #21
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,540

    Default

    Whining eh. Bravery bonus was created because if whining. There were other solutions and probably better ones.

  2. #22
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,540

    Default

    Whining eh. Bravery bonus was created because of whining. There were other solutions and probably better ones.

  3. #23
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,540

    Default

    Whining eh. Bravery bonus was created because of whining. There were other solutions and likely much better ones.

  4. #24
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,540

    Default

    Sorry for the triple post. Couldn't tell that any but the last had taken.

  5. #25
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    On the second, I can't really ever think of a time when I cared about scaling and I've PUG'ed everything. The only thing it really makes wild is a couple of the Cannith Challenges, namely Colossal Crystals and the Mansion. If someone's sweating scaling in the other quests, they might want to adjust tactics.
    It is EASIER to solo 99% of the Heroics than it is to group.

    You are denying reality if you don't think scaling affects grouping.

  6. #26
    Community Member remember1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    3bc
    Posts
    70

    Default

    y BB is fine

    repeating changelling quests isn't boring

    unfortunately hard became easy and some elite is soloable

  7. #27
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,817

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    That's not an issue with BB . . . that's a malfunction with the players on your server. One mine (Ghallanda) the LFMs are always opens for a level range.

    If you think stupid people wouldn't continue to be stupid if BB is removed you're just wrong.
    I'm on the same server. Not sure what time you're on, but the only open levels I see are usually farming runs, and they are usually nothing more than advertised solo runs.

    before Bravery Bonus, you had relatively few problems either starting a PUG or getting into one and that group getting filled in no time flat. Now, you can go 20 minutes without a single person joining.




    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    You want to talk about a mechanic that kills grouping you can start a Dungeon Scaling thread. Remove dungeon scaling on Elite so every added member is a benefit and not a hindrance and you'll see more people grouping. Heroic elite is easier solo by an order of magnitude and that's just plain wrong . . . but that has nothing to do with BB.
    My only comment on this is that I remember the PUG scene dying off after BB was implemented. Was that the same time that scaling was implemented as well? I don't remember.

  8. #28
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I'm on the same server. Not sure what time you're on, but the only open levels I see are usually farming runs, and they are usually nothing more than advertised solo runs.

    before Bravery Bonus, you had relatively few problems either starting a PUG or getting into one and that group getting filled in no time flat. Now, you can go 20 minutes without a single person joining.

    My only comment on this is that I remember the PUG scene dying off after BB was implemented. Was that the same time that scaling was implemented as well? I don't remember.
    I'm an East-Coast US player who typically plays between 7-11 PM eastern time. Primetime for lack of a better way to put it. I'm currently on a TR-spree and simply haven't had issues filling groups or finding people. Then again it's usually 3-4 of us filling 2-3 spots and we never need a healer or a rogue so admittedly it's easier for us than some other groups.

    We're at like half the population we had a year ago, things are simply gonna be slower. You wanna see dead look at the above level 20 LFMs!

  9. #29
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    341

    Default

    BB is fine, but when most people (including the OP from his comments) say BB they actually mean Streak bonus.

    As for streak bonus, mostly I like it... a lot.

    It does however encourage behavior that is problematic to grouping. There is no XP penalty for being on e level above the quest to encourage grouping and less than perfectly geared characters. SB killed that type of group and made grouping harder.

    It used to be the order you ran quest difficulties on didn't matter, that made grouping easy. With SB all that changed. You might be willing to join that <insert quest> group on Hard... but oh wait, that would break my Streak and cost me XP not just for this quest but for the next 5 quests after it. Hmmm...not worth it. That's not good for the game.

    It used to be if you hated/weren't good at a quest you could just run it on norm or hard and just skip elite. Now you have to skip the whole quest unless you want to lose xp for the next 5 quests, that's not good for grouping.

    People are being made to feel, both due to the groups out there and the substantial XP difference, that they HAVE to run E first and that is putting some people in over their heads or leaving them with unfilled groups. This is not good for the game.

    To fix Streak Bonus and really make it work without harming group and game dynamics they should:

    1) allow SB to apply at quest level +1
    2) breaking your streak should not bring you to zero, it should just drop your counts by 1 (or to 4 if your count is over 5). That creates an xp penalty on the quest you ran without the SB and a small penalty one quest after. Going from a 50% bonus to a 40% bonus is a much more balanced response than going from a 50% XP bonus to 0% so it provides flexibility in play and grouping while still encouraging you to keep running hard/elite first.

  10. #30
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,918

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    There's been a lot of whining about BB being terrible, and all these people are wrong.

    Bravery bonus is the best thing to happen to leveling in DDO.

    Repeating quests is boring, sucks, is retarded, etc . . . anything that reduces the need to repeat content is awesome.

    This game is only remotely challenging on Elite. Anything that encourages people to up their game and run things on the highest difficulty is a good thing.

    Window farming sucks.

    Running Shadowcrypt/RWTD/Litany until your eyes bleed sucks.

    Can't cut it in elite? Run hard it's much easier and you'll still get a ton of XP.

    Drop you streak when done with Heroics, you'll still level up just fine. Having a streak in the hundreds or thousands doesn't make your package any bigger nor does it increase the size of your bank account, heck it isn't even envy worthy of other players.

    So keep bravery bonus, it's awesome.
    You say constant repetition of quests sucks - I agree. However, the REAL ISSUE here is: Who designed it so that you need to constantly repeat the same high Xp quests in order to level? On a first life toon, no one ever needs to repeat a quest. On a 3+ life toon, Turbine ARBITRARILY RAISED the Xp needed to ~4.3m. This is what causes the repetition you are referring to. Why did they do this? Those XP pots aint gonna sell themselves.

    You dont want to run quests til your eyes bleed? Address that issue with the cats who made that necessary in the first place. Ill give you a hint, its not the players.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  11. #31
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Ah the good old, "every 1 man LFM in the panel is someone who's unpopular" canard, half the LFM's usually and rarely anyone recognizable. The things people make up to avoid reasonable but uncomfortable cause and effect relationships never fails to amaze me.
    Nothing is made up. Some people have trouble filling LFMs, others don't. Clearly if it was due to BB, everyone would have this problem. I'm not sure what you find hard to understand here. It's a simple concept. You do yourself no justice trying to find an answer some place where none exist. You'd think if you were truly worried about grouping, you'd strive to find an actual answer. But you don't. I wonder why this is?

  12. #32
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,330

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You say constant repetition of quests sucks - I agree. However, the REAL ISSUE here is: Who designed it so that you need to constantly repeat the same high Xp quests in order to level? On a first life toon, no one ever needs to repeat a quest. On a 3+ life toon, Turbine ARBITRARILY RAISED the Xp needed to ~4.3m. This is what causes the repetition you are referring to. Why did they do this? Those XP pots aint gonna sell themselves.

    You dont want to run quests til your eyes bleed? Address that issue with the cats who made that necessary in the first place. Ill give you a hint, its not the players.
    You do not need to run the same content over and over again to get a TR 3+. Personally, I think it's already too easy to TR and get completionist. 3 months or so to "win" the game"? Are you kidding me? It needs to be harder to TR. Not every casual needs to TR and something needs to be left for power gamers. When we start lessening time spent so it suits the lowest common denominator, the playerbase loses. Casuals don't need the same things as noncasuals. And the game shouldn't be designed that way.

    If you do not have the time or motivation to get multiple past lives, then don't do it. It's as simple as that. The game doesn't need to be changed so that these things are handed to you.

  13. #33
    Community Member ahpook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    2,023

    Default

    You like BB because it makes levelling a TR tolerable. That doesn't make BB good. It makes it a good crutch. BB is (IMHO) bad because it has negative repurcussions on grouping and its only benefit is to compensate for a different bad system (TR levelling XP and XP distribution in general).

    To illustrate with a metaphor - there is a little bridge you have to climb over on the sidewalk to your house. It is awkward for some people to get over but you like it because it keeps you from stepping in the big pile of cr@p that is on the sidewalk. Remove the big pile of cr@p and you will quickly see that the bridge is not good. It merely let you ignore the cr@p.

    Change the XP distribution model (to make all quests viable from an XP perspective) and reduce the XP penalties on a TR and then BB can be tossed away. It is a bad system to compensate for a worse system.

  14. #34
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin, birthplace of D&D
    Posts
    20,918

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    You do not need to run the same content over and over again to get a TR 3+. Personally, I think it's already too easy to TR and get completionist. 3 months or so to "win" the game"? Are you kidding me? It needs to be harder to TR. Not every casual needs to TR and something needs to be left for power gamers. When we start lessening time spent so it suits the lowest common denominator, the playerbase loses. Casuals don't need the same things as noncasuals. And the game shouldn't be designed that way.

    If you do not have the time or motivation to get multiple past lives, then don't do it. It's as simple as that. The game doesn't need to be changed so that these things are handed to you.
    I agree - and was actually saying this over a year ago - repetition of quests isnt necessary - but enjoyment of playing the ENTIRE GAME is necessary. Those who do not enjoy the entire game gravitate to the high XP easily metagamed quests which can be completed in the lowest amount of time possible in order to get high XP / minute. The see most of the game to be work needed to be done in order to get back to endgame and run the same 10 quests over and over again with a slightly more powerful toon.

    Odd that we are talking about lessening time spent, because the company arbitrarily increased the time spent, then used BB to decrease time spent, but only for the "noncasuals" - as you call them. The casuals who cant handle more difficult questing are still subject to the same arbitrary time increase. Sounds a bit backward to me. Its a good thing that past lives arent needed - as this is the major saving grace in this situation.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #35
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orratti View Post
    Sorry for the triple post. Couldn't tell that any but the last had taken.
    Don't sweat it, we all know this is a brokenly sh!tty forum... if the mods get tired enough of dealing with multi posts maybe they'll spine up and tell the suits that foisted this pile onto the community to fix it or revert.

  16. #36
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    I'm not sure what you find hard to understand here. It's a simple concept.
    It's not a simple concept it's a simplistic concept.

  17. #37
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You say constant repetition of quests sucks - I agree. However, the REAL ISSUE here is: Who designed it so that you need to constantly repeat the same high Xp quests in order to level? On a first life toon, no one ever needs to repeat a quest. On a 3+ life toon, Turbine ARBITRARILY RAISED the Xp needed to ~4.3m. This is what causes the repetition you are referring to. Why did they do this? Those XP pots aint gonna sell themselves.

    You dont want to run quests til your eyes bleed? Address that issue with the cats who made that necessary in the first place. Ill give you a hint, its not the players.
    See . . . with the 20% XP tome (yeah I know, P2Win. Bite me ) and the amount of content we have NOW I don't think the repeats are even needed. It's just faster to still to still repeat a few quests than it is to streak everything.

    But yes, the XP needed on 36 point toons is stupid.

  18. #38
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Odd that we are talking about lessening time spent, because the company arbitrarily increased the time spent, then used BB to decrease time spent, but only for the "noncasuals" - as you call them. The casuals who cant handle more difficult questing are still subject to the same arbitrary time increase. Sounds a bit backward to me. Its a good thing that past lives arent needed - as this is the major saving grace in this situation.
    Gonna call BS on this. heroic elite isn't tough at all two levels about the quest level for 99% of the quests (the exceptions can be named on 1 hand).

    You just have to rise to the level of competent to streak elite on a second life toon, and first lifers don't need the streak.

  19. #39
    2015 DDO Players Council Sebastrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,150

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ahpook View Post
    You like BB because it makes levelling a TR tolerable. That doesn't make BB good. It makes it a good crutch. BB is (IMHO) bad because it has negative repurcussions on grouping and its only benefit is to compensate for a different bad system (TR levelling XP and XP distribution in general).

    To illustrate with a metaphor - there is a little bridge you have to climb over on the sidewalk to your house. It is awkward for some people to get over but you like it because it keeps you from stepping in the big pile of cr@p that is on the sidewalk. Remove the big pile of cr@p and you will quickly see that the bridge is not good. It merely let you ignore the cr@p.

    Change the XP distribution model (to make all quests viable from an XP perspective) and reduce the XP penalties on a TR and then BB can be tossed away. It is a bad system to compensate for a worse system.
    I can't really argue with that.

    Astreya the Unturning

    It's always a shame when the hammer of poor design choices smashes the fun of player tactical adaptation.

  20. #40
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,817

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm an East-Coast US player who typically plays between 7-11 PM eastern time. Primetime for lack of a better way to put it. I'm currently on a TR-spree and simply haven't had issues filling groups or finding people. Then again it's usually 3-4 of us filling 2-3 spots and we never need a healer or a rogue so admittedly it's easier for us than some other groups.

    We're at like half the population we had a year ago, things are simply gonna be slower. You wanna see dead look at the above level 20 LFMs!
    Yep. On the same time and same timezone.

    And yeah - epic is a wasteland.

    I've been trying a little experiment to see under what conditions, groups get filled. I've made 5 attempts: 2 f2p quests and 3 p2p quests, all below lvl 18. Of the 5 attempts, I've had 2 parties fill 2 4 slots. The rest, no one joins. Even when I specifying "anyone welcome", it is literally a crp-shoot to get people to join.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload