Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 63

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default I love Bravery Bonis

    There's been a lot of whining about BB being terrible, and all these people are wrong.

    Bravery bonus is the best thing to happen to leveling in DDO.

    Repeating quests is boring, sucks, is ********, etc . . . anything that reduces the need to repeat content is awesome.

    This game is only remotely challenging on Elite. Anything that encourages people to up their game and run things on the highest difficulty is a good thing.

    Window farming sucks.

    Running Shadowcrypt/RWTD/Litany until your eyes bleed sucks.

    Can't cut it in elite? Run hard it's much easier and you'll still get a ton of XP.

    Drop you streak when done with Heroics, you'll still level up just fine. Having a streak in the hundreds or thousands doesn't make your package any bigger nor does it increase the size of your bank account, heck it isn't even envy worthy of other players.

    So keep bravery bonus, it's awesome.

  2. #2
    2015 DDO Players Council Sebastrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,220

    Default

    Post deleted
    Last edited by Sebastrd; 06-12-2013 at 01:38 PM.

    Astreya the Unturning

    It's always a shame when the hammer of poor design choices smashes the fun of player tactical adaptation.

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,923

    Default

    Agreed.

    There's been a lot of blaming jerky behavior lately on Bravery Bonus, but it's usually a safer bet to blame jerky behavior on jerks than trying to appease them. A jerk is just a jerk.

  4. #4
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    149

    Default

    What do you do at cap ? Run FoT, Citw, occasional EE, Rusted Blades/Demands, look pretty on the guild ship. Then you get bored so you TR.
    There would be much less TRing ( and DDO ) if bravery wouldn't exist. Usual complainers are people with 1st life toons.
    But
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Running Shadowcrypt/RWTD/Litany until your eyes bleed rocks.
    ftfy

  5. #5
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    3,760

    Default

    Just piping in that if it weren't for Bravery Bonus I would most likely play a lot less or not at all. In addition, I'd be less likely to try out new quests. Bravery Bonus rarely gets in the way of me joining a group but it often entices me into something I'd never run before.
    Tajawuka 20 Bladeforged Paladin running divine ETR's (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's, 3 martial epl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  6. #6
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    There's been a lot of whining about BB being terrible, and all these people are wrong.

    Bravery bonus is the best thing to happen to leveling in DDO.
    The problem with BB isn't that it makes leveling nicer and also does a great job of encouraging people to run different content. I love that aspect of it myself.

    The problem with BB is that it makes 90% of the LFM's at quest level or two higher, by default. NO ONE includes one level below quest level, and in many cases you even see LFM's that wont allow AT QUEST LEVEL characters to join.

    So pre BB: 4 level range LFM by default, often more than that if the lower level character didn't mind taking a 10% powerleveling penalty.

    Post BB: at level or two higher, no exceptions, almost never see LFM's for normal or hard, and almost never see anyone willing to take a level lower than the quest level.

    This wouldn't be that big of a deal if the game wasn't already strangling grouping with other needless and sometimes obsolete exclusions like: flagging, quest location knowledge, power leveling penalty, the lack of a "sidekicks and mentors" style mechanic, and meta game knowledge assumed of the party leader or drama ensues. Among other things.

  7. #7
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    The problem with BB isn't that it makes leveling nicer and also does a great job of encouraging people to run different content. I love that aspect of it myself.

    The problem with BB is that it makes 90% of the LFM's at quest level or two higher, by default. NO ONE includes one level below quest level, and in many cases you even see LFM's that wont allow AT QUEST LEVEL characters to join.

    That's not an issue with BB . . . that's a malfunction with the players on your server. One mine (Ghallanda) the LFMs are always opens for a level range.

    If you think stupid people wouldn't continue to be stupid if BB is removed you're just wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    This wouldn't be that big of a deal if the game wasn't already strangling grouping with other needless and sometimes obsolete exclusions like: flagging, quest location knowledge, power leveling penalty, the lack of a "sidekicks and mentors" style mechanic, and meta game knowledge assumed of the party leader or drama ensues. Among other things.
    So in other words you play on a server full of jerks?

    I simply don't see this and I pug a lot.

    They were jerks before BB, they will continue to be jerks after BB. BB didn't make people jerks nor does it encourage people to be jerks.

    You want to talk about a mechanic that kills grouping you can start a Dungeon Scaling thread. Remove dungeon scaling on Elite so every added member is a benefit and not a hindrance and you'll see more people grouping. Heroic elite is easier solo by an order of magnitude and that's just plain wrong . . . but that has nothing to do with BB.

  8. #8
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    This wouldn't be that big of a deal if the game wasn't already strangling grouping with other needless and sometimes obsolete exclusions like: flagging, quest location knowledge, power leveling penalty, the lack of a "sidekicks and mentors" style mechanic, and meta game knowledge assumed of the party leader or drama ensues. Among other things.


    So in other words you play on a server full of jerks?

    I simply don't see this and I pug a lot.
    The thing you quoted doesn't match up with your comment, as they are all Turbine design choices and have nothing to do with the attitude of the player base on Thelanis.

    As far as the player base goes, yes I see this in nearly every LFM all night long, every night I log in. it's so rare to see a LFM that says "Elite BB" and is also open to one level below quest level, that they stick out like a sore thumb.

  9. #9
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    8,112

    Default

    Bravery Bonus in and of itself was a great idea that encourage and allowed for those of us that don't want to run the same quest over and over and over and ....

    But just like every great idea out there, it got twisted along the way. The community that is DDO's servers have redefined how it is used to meet their individual play styles. Being able to run elite the first time is now seen as some kind of Badge of Honor and anything run under elite is looked at as either being weak or a Farming run for speed.

    The problem is not the streak itself but how the number is perceived. Change the Streak counter to Max out at 5 and you will change the perception. People mentally can handle a small number like 5, but for some reason giving up numbers in the hundreds even though it equals 5 is harder to do.

    Also doing a one time big bonus of XP on Elite/Hard for first time completion will probably not change the current LFM system as people running elite now will continue to run elite for the bonus.

  10. #10
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    The problem is not the streak itself but how the number is perceived. Change the Streak counter to Max out at 5 and you will change the perception. People mentally can handle a small number like 5, but for some reason giving up numbers in the hundreds even though it equals 5 is harder to do.
    This is a really good idea and I admittedly do this sometimes too even though I know it doesn't mean anything significant. I hope a dev sees this and passes the idea on. (although there will still be the ppl that are like I have an 8 billion leet streak lol).
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    *fist shake* "Back in my day, we had to run the Coalescence Chamber up hill both ways! There wasn't even snow and the only slippery ice you could find was sleet storm! We had to imagine what snow would look like at Festivult time, and we liked it!"
    http://soundboards.cubicleninja.com/

  11. #11
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    One mine (Ghallanda) the LFMs are always opens for a level range.
    ...

    Remove dungeon scaling on Elite so every added member is a benefit and not a hindrance and you'll see more people grouping. Heroic elite is easier solo by an order of magnitude and that's just plain wrong . . . but that has nothing to do with BB.
    On the first, agreed, I always post my PUG LFMs for one level below quest level regardless how many levels above I'm running it for.

    On the second, I can't really ever think of a time when I cared about scaling and I've PUG'ed everything. The only thing it really makes wild is a couple of the Cannith Challenges, namely Colossal Crystals and the Mansion. If someone's sweating scaling in the other quests, they might want to adjust tactics.

  12. #12
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    On the second, I can't really ever think of a time when I cared about scaling and I've PUG'ed everything. The only thing it really makes wild is a couple of the Cannith Challenges, namely Colossal Crystals and the Mansion. If someone's sweating scaling in the other quests, they might want to adjust tactics.
    It is EASIER to solo 99% of the Heroics than it is to group.

    You are denying reality if you don't think scaling affects grouping.

  13. #13
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It is EASIER to solo 99% of the Heroics than it is to group.

    You are denying reality if you don't think scaling affects grouping.
    The reality is, for me, I've never cared outside of Colossal Crystal grinding (because wiping in the last 2m does mean a waste of 20m). Sure, it might be nominally easier to solo content, but I can barely even remember the last time I wiped in heroic content regardless of party makeup or scaling. Now, I'm pretty caerful about building toons, so I can solo most content even with a full party, but even when I couldn't, I never cared about relative difficulty as it relates to party size.

    I don't PUG because it's easier or tougher (being clear that tougher is itself hugely easy to a prepared toon), I do it because I like playing the game with others. I know I'm not the only toon doing that and large portion of the regular PUG scene has zero concern about scaling if we're judging by the actual discussion of what goes on in PUGs chat or verbal.

  14. #14
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,366

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    That's not an issue with BB . . . that's a malfunction with the players on your server. One mine (Ghallanda) the LFMs are always opens for a level range.

    If you think stupid people wouldn't continue to be stupid if BB is removed you're just wrong.
    I'm on the same server. Not sure what time you're on, but the only open levels I see are usually farming runs, and they are usually nothing more than advertised solo runs.

    before Bravery Bonus, you had relatively few problems either starting a PUG or getting into one and that group getting filled in no time flat. Now, you can go 20 minutes without a single person joining.




    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    You want to talk about a mechanic that kills grouping you can start a Dungeon Scaling thread. Remove dungeon scaling on Elite so every added member is a benefit and not a hindrance and you'll see more people grouping. Heroic elite is easier solo by an order of magnitude and that's just plain wrong . . . but that has nothing to do with BB.
    My only comment on this is that I remember the PUG scene dying off after BB was implemented. Was that the same time that scaling was implemented as well? I don't remember.

  15. #15
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Under the bridge
    Posts
    5,874

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I'm on the same server. Not sure what time you're on, but the only open levels I see are usually farming runs, and they are usually nothing more than advertised solo runs.

    before Bravery Bonus, you had relatively few problems either starting a PUG or getting into one and that group getting filled in no time flat. Now, you can go 20 minutes without a single person joining.

    My only comment on this is that I remember the PUG scene dying off after BB was implemented. Was that the same time that scaling was implemented as well? I don't remember.
    I'm an East-Coast US player who typically plays between 7-11 PM eastern time. Primetime for lack of a better way to put it. I'm currently on a TR-spree and simply haven't had issues filling groups or finding people. Then again it's usually 3-4 of us filling 2-3 spots and we never need a healer or a rogue so admittedly it's easier for us than some other groups.

    We're at like half the population we had a year ago, things are simply gonna be slower. You wanna see dead look at the above level 20 LFMs!

  16. #16
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    3,366

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I'm an East-Coast US player who typically plays between 7-11 PM eastern time. Primetime for lack of a better way to put it. I'm currently on a TR-spree and simply haven't had issues filling groups or finding people. Then again it's usually 3-4 of us filling 2-3 spots and we never need a healer or a rogue so admittedly it's easier for us than some other groups.

    We're at like half the population we had a year ago, things are simply gonna be slower. You wanna see dead look at the above level 20 LFMs!
    Yep. On the same time and same timezone.

    And yeah - epic is a wasteland.

    I've been trying a little experiment to see under what conditions, groups get filled. I've made 5 attempts: 2 f2p quests and 3 p2p quests, all below lvl 18. Of the 5 attempts, I've had 2 parties fill 2 4 slots. The rest, no one joins. Even when I specifying "anyone welcome", it is literally a crp-shoot to get people to join.

  17. #17
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    149

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Then again it's usually 3-4 of us filling 2-3 spots and we never need a healer or a rogue so admittedly it's easier for us than some other groups.
    It's probably easier for you and different perspective, because you are "known". If you say we got half the playerbase, it must be much worse for someone else.
    One can be the nicest person but we all know many people are "selective" on different levels. Sometimes you just want stuff done.

    Unknown citw/fot/elite Shroud might never fill, well known "raider"/guild/name will much faster. Just saying.

  18. #18
    2014 DDO Players Council
    SirValentine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Eastern USA
    Posts
    6,798

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    pre BB: 4 level range LFM by default, often more than that if the lower level character didn't mind taking a 10% powerleveling penalty.
    That 4-level range is just due to the default values being really stupid. It's not a TEN percent power-level penalty, it's FIFTY!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    The problem with BB is that it makes 90% of the LFM's at quest level or two higher, by default. NO ONE includes one level below quest level, and in many cases you even see LFM's that wont allow AT QUEST LEVEL characters to join.
    <snip>
    Post BB: at level or two higher, no exceptions, almost never see LFM's for normal or hard, and almost never see anyone willing to take a level lower than the quest level.
    Not my experience. Sure, for a base-level-8 quest on Elite, I SEE the listed range as 8-10, but that's just because the level-10 LFM poster was too lazy to bother changing both numbers from the default 8-12. (Whereas they had to lower 12 to 10 for BB.) I often hit such LFMs with, say, a level 7 toon, and have never been turned down yet.

  19. #19
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    3,405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    There's been a lot of whining about BB being terrible, and all these people are wrong.

    Bravery bonus is the best thing to happen to leveling in DDO.

    Repeating quests is boring, sucks, is ********, etc . . . anything that reduces the need to repeat content is awesome.

    This game is only remotely challenging on Elite. Anything that encourages people to up their game and run things on the highest difficulty is a good thing.

    Window farming sucks.

    Running Shadowcrypt/RWTD/Litany until your eyes bleed sucks.

    Can't cut it in elite? Run hard it's much easier and you'll still get a ton of XP.

    Drop you streak when done with Heroics, you'll still level up just fine. Having a streak in the hundreds or thousands doesn't make your package any bigger nor does it increase the size of your bank account, heck it isn't even envy worthy of other players.

    So keep bravery bonus, it's awesome.
    You don't like bravery bonus: you like the increased XP on a first time completion. If you increase the first time bonus on elite by the maximum streak bonus you will be the same off without actually having to run elite first. That's a lot less restrictive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  20. #20
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    2,923

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    You don't like bravery bonus: you like the increased XP on a first time completion. If you increase the first time bonus on elite by the maximum streak bonus you will be the same off without actually having to run elite first. That's a lot less restrictive.
    Restriction in games is good and a necessity. The bravery bonus concept is a good one. People having troubles grouping have something else going on, as evidenced by the fact the others of us have no trouble. That something would still exist even if BB changed.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload