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  1. #41
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    You need to use that shrine?

    Also unless you're running ee citw no it's not challenging, just don't die. Seriously the difficulty in citw on en/eh is not falling asleep, on ee it's getting sp bars one shot.
    Not sure who is trolling. If the game is such easy for you, why you call for making it easer. It will not help, you will still fall asleep in every quest.

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art19), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic6)

  2. #42
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    You actually use the shrine in KA? Why? lol
    For example solo caster need time to time fill its SP bar.

    Another example Walking on Butcher path. Most everybody forget oozes near rest shrine hitting ppls right after they start shrinning. This surprise can makes game more challenging there.

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art19), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic6)

  3. #43
    Community Member MiniKobold's Avatar
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    I wouldn't have a problem with Turbine making the progress bars faster. It is especially annoying when I'm on my rogue and search for trap boxes while everyone runs ahead. I mean the xp bonus is always appreciated, but typically people don't wait anyway. The only time I can really think of traps within a fight is Vision of Destruction, but I just sneak and the Orthons go after someone else anyway during the first fight while I disable the boxes.

  4. #44
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiniKobold View Post
    I wouldn't have a problem with Turbine making the progress bars faster. It is especially annoying when I'm on my rogue and search for trap boxes while everyone runs ahead. I mean the xp bonus is always appreciated, but typically people don't wait anyway. The only time I can really think of traps within a fight is Vision of Destruction, but I just sneak and the Orthons go after someone else anyway during the first fight while I disable the boxes.
    You don't need faster disarm, you need more deadly traps Seriously. if everybody ignores traps, something is not working well.
    Last edited by Wanesa; 06-12-2013 at 10:03 AM.

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art19), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic6)

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    For example solo caster need time to time fill its SP bar.

    Another example Walking on Butcher path. Most everybody forget oozes near rest shrine hitting ppls right after they start shrinning. This surprise can makes game more challenging there.
    There is no need to rest in KA while things are attacking. As I said, things come in predictable waves so its easy to rest unmolested unless that is the first time you ran the quest (and even then, common sense should tell you to shrine at a break). Also, as a solo caster, charm and your greataxe should be keeping you safe to rest at a good time. No challenge.

    BP, first timers get caught (and its funny) but other than that how can you NOT remember the oozes? It's literally been years since I've seen anyone hit by those slimes unexpected. (Actually most groups don't even bother to hit that shrine anymore, its really not needed with all the relatively OP gear turbine now hands out to lowbies). Even if groups were all forgetful and all were interrupted, so what? It adds no challenge, just a second of surprise the first time, then you kill, then you rest again. No biggy, no extra killing, no extra challenge.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    You don't need faster disarm, you need more deadly traps Seriously. if everybody ignores traps, something is not work well.
    You must be too new to have been here for the SUPER ELITE traps on elite that we had a while back due to a bug. Even with evasion most ppl died lol. Didn't really make anyone happy though since it forced you to have a "trapper" in every quest that had traps and that's bad for the grouping experience.

    Once again, this whole trap setup is LAZY design. There was a long thread where this was discussed in 2006 or 2007 and even the devs agreed. What REALLY should be done is to give alternate paths. Path A takes you through absolutely evil traps that you must disarm if you don't have Imp Evasion. There will however been few monsters in this path. The other path has no serious traps (or no traps at all) but LOTS of evil monsters to smack. This gives you both a skill/subtle approach through a back door, or a brute force through the main door. They would need to be designed to provide similar XP and treasure, with the trap route probably being slightly faster. Everyone could get what they want, and they even tried it a little on a few quests, but its more work so it basically continued to mostly be straight line quests.

  7. #47
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citzen_Gkar View Post
    BP, first timers get caught (and its funny) but other than that how can you NOT remember the oozes? It's literally been years since I've seen anyone hit by those slimes unexpected. (Actually most groups don't even bother to hit that shrine anymore, its really not needed with all the relatively OP gear turbine now hands out to lowbies). Even if groups were all forgetful and all were interrupted, so what? It adds no challenge, just a second of surprise the first time, then you kill, then you rest again. No biggy, no extra killing, no extra challenge.
    It does not coincide with my experience. Probably I often meet first timers in my pug groups. Good news for DDO anyway. What is worse: Structure of such group is: Me, a zerg, an another zerg, a newbie, a newbie and the soulstone of another newbie.

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art19), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic6)

  8. #48
    Community Member MiniKobold's Avatar
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    Deadly traps can be fun though, just not constantly. I think it is Foundation of Discord it has that random trap with sonic blast in the middle of the floor. I find it hilarious when people run too far ahead and forget about it then I hear the Ding, Ding, Ding sound. (Not when I am the one forgetting about it, of course.) I think random traps are more fun than static ones and I appreciate that effort in Gianthold and a few other quest packs. It does make people slow down a minute when they are not sure if a trap will appear on the doorway or not. Or when someone opens that secret door and behind it is....spikes coming out of the wall! So more difficult traps could be fun as long as Turbine balances challenge with just being a nuisance.

  9. #49
    Community Member Chaimberland's Avatar
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    I see the point the OP is trying to make. Its like having the Staples "Easy Button". He/she is saying that if the game mechanics allow easy circumnavigation of questing roadblocks, such as disarming traps, then the quest is just too easy to complete and is no longer enjoyable.

    The fact of the matter is that DDO has a huge fan base which means there are many different play styles. Nobody will ever agree on just one way to do things. There are those who like to take their time and enjoy the content and there are those who like to complete as fast as possible and get on the next quest. Neither way is wrong or right, just personal preference.

    My suggestion to the OP would be to state in your lfm you want non zergging, do all optionals, etc. And if you join somebody else's lfm then be prepared that they may not run a quest the same way you do.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    The OP has to be trolling.

    For that I say well played.
    You know that it is a good troll when Teh_Troll approves.

    ...and the prize for best new DDO feature of 2013 goes to....Instant recall!

    Instant trap disable failed to qualify, as so few traps get disabled in current game play that not enough people care.

    Question: There are still toons that can disable traps in DDO?

  11. #51
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post

    Question: There are still toons that can disable traps in DDO?

  12. #52
    Uber Completionist Ilindith's Avatar
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    "I don't like how they play. They should play like I do because it's the ONLY way to play that matters."

    Oh boy, another one of those.

    Oh and, just saying, I'll still zerg after all of that stuff is fixed. Won't change anything.
    Distributed - Currently on life 72.

  13. #53
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    You know, I hate zerg groups too. I don't join them personally. But if they want to jump through traps and get to the end quickly, more power to them. That's their business.

    That being said, the OP has the shreds of a decent argument. Zerging is decidedly not fun. So is having to take multiple swings at a mob (as this takes time), so we need to make it such that you only have to hit a mob or a boss once, and it dies. Because killing the bad guys quickly is "fun."

    In short, some of the arguments about bypassing a trap to get to the "fun" are pretty idiotic. Any definition of "fun" is going to be subjective. There are some people who think being a completionist, and having to run classes they don't enjoy running is "fun." I don't, but that's their business.

    Cutting the time to search and disable traps (that most people know where the control boxes are anyways) is an utterly moronic idea. Yeah, lets make this game like Rogue, or Mines of Moria where there is no real-time aspect to it, but with really cool graphics, and that'll be "fun."

    I seriously wonder if people actually read some of the stuff they post, and the context under which they post it...

    (This is aside from the fact that you reallt can't READ anything in the edit box as you are typing it as black text on a really, really dark gray background doesn't scream CONTRAST to most people.)

  14. #54
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post

    Cutting the time to search and disable traps (that most people know where the control boxes are anyways) is an utterly moronic idea. Yeah, lets make this game like Rogue, or Mines of Moria where there is no real-time aspect to it, but with really cool graphics, and that'll be "fun."
    What function does a search or disarm bar have other than giving the group a time out where they can't do anything? (assuming they don't zerg thru it)

    Seriously any good character with trap skills is just going to wait till stuff is dead then disarm and move into the dangerous area, or stealth / invis so others get aggro and disable in the rare case where the trap should be disabled immediately and there are mobs in the area.

    You and the op seem to think it makes it harder, unless you mean boring I don't see how. The only thing it does is makes it where I'm now waiting instead of playing the game.

  15. #55
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    Get faster boots, and drink lots of water
    Last edited by MuleAxe; 06-14-2013 at 08:59 AM.
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  16. #56
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by earl_of_pain View Post
    Three seconds after a new quest is available on anything other then the Lam server the LFM's have posts of "know it". This is not a game for new people. New people are not desired. We must all know the runs inside and out and do exactly as the lemmings... I mean leader, wants us too.

    That's the state of the game outside of the harbor. You want to join a group you had better learn how DDO is played. Either that or get lucky and find some people willing to share how you like playing.
    lmao +1
    I remember the very first LFM for EE CITW on Argo the day U14 went live. Was probably a few hours after the expansion hit live and the first LFM was "Know it, bring your max destiny." This was also the very first CITW lfm period.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    It is about different wishes. All of you want to make game more easer. I wish to have game more challenging. So I will disagree with every new feature making game easer. Why? Because it is the game. A challenge!

    I really don't understand, why you want to have game easer by breaking the rules.
    You really do not make any sense what-so-ever.
    How is faster searching and disabling making things easier? It still requires the same skills, it still requires you to build your toon, and gear it out correctly. What it doesn't do is make the game easier, just less tedious. Have you ever played a trapper?

    I have. There is nothing more annoying than being a trapper in a Monastery farm. Why? Because you spend toe 10 minutes in the quest alone, searching and disabling traps for a shrine that may or may not be used, while the rest of the group does the rest of the quest. Because if they were to "stick together" the entire group would stand in place while you disable traps for 10 minutes. This is not fun, for anyone.

    You mentioned the Servants of the Overlord portal optional?
    This is a pointless argument. I've done this optional on every non-farming run of this quest, even on EE with no problems. The same way that outside of EE I can do ANY trap in the middle of combat if I want. All you need is high saves, evasion helps, and a concentration that is really high. I've been sitting at 70-80 on all my toons at cap. But you know what? I hate that encounter so much. Because I have to sit there watching a progress bar for 1 minute while the rest of the group is actually doing something.

    We don't want the game to be easier, just less tedious. And these are not the same things. In the same way that in a good group Elite VOD was never "hard" just tedious. there was never anything hard about fighting a bunch of giant HP sacks. It was just tedious to most. I'm sure a bunch of people who play the game would have rather had a really hard fight/raid there, not something easier.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
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    Guild: Fors Fortis;Guild of Won, & VENOM @ Argo
    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

  17. #57
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    What function does a search or disarm bar have other than giving the group a time out where they can't do anything? (assuming they don't zerg thru it)
    Adds a bit of realism to the amount of time it takes to perform a complicated and dangerous action properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Seriously any good character with trap skills is just going to wait till stuff is dead then disarm and move into the dangerous area, or stealth / invis so others get aggro and disable in the rare case where the trap should be disabled immediately and there are mobs in the area.
    That's what I generally do, but I don't think that is the argument here. Shortening timers just removes that portion of real-time action that is one of the points of something like a FPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    You and the op seem to think it makes it harder, unless you mean boring I don't see how. The only thing it does is makes it where I'm now waiting instead of playing the game.
    Take the example of the post that talked about a Monestary farm. That the rouge spends 10 minutes disabling traps when the rest of the group moves on to the "fun." Frankly speaking, if you don't like having a toon that can spot and disable traps, then menybe you shouldn't advertise having trapping skills. I sorta get a kick out of disabling traps with my rogue - stealth or no.

    Finally - and this is really important - how are you ever gonna be able to corner the market in popcorn if you don't feed the trolls with inflammatory posting? C'mon!

  18. #58
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Take the example of the post that talked about a Monestary farm. That the rouge spends 10 minutes disabling traps when the rest of the group moves on to the "fun." Frankly speaking, if you don't like having a toon that can spot and disable traps, then menybe you shouldn't advertise having trapping skills. I sorta get a kick out of disabling traps with my rogue - stealth or no.
    I agree. I find doing traps fun... At first. But, when you play with zerg heavy people(me and my friends mostly) or just anyone who steamrolls content...
    well, I get tired of seeing "Voice as soon as Ara gets the 15% trap bonus". It's just a simple fact that in trap heavy quests, it takes longer to search and disable the traps than it does to do the quest when you're running in the right groups.

    So as a trapper of any kind I spend entire quests alone, looking at progress bars and trap boxes.
    To me it's not a realism thing at all. If there was some interactive component like picking locks in Skyrim, then sure. I would have 0 issues with that.
    But it doesn't, and this isn't Skyrim. Instead I get a trap box, and a progress bar.

    It's precisely this reason that I don't advertise as a trapper in PUGS, unless someone asks me, or it looks like we won't get another trapper.

    EDIT**
    I should clarify that I don't think things should be instant the way they are bugged right now. I do however entertain the idea that it would be nice to have the trap mechanics looked at to make them more interesting. I wouldn't mind slowing down for traps if it was just so boring.
    Last edited by TheLegendOfAra; 06-12-2013 at 03:09 PM.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
    Araphell - Arasin - Arathaes - Arawyn - Aravein
    Guild: Fors Fortis;Guild of Won, & VENOM @ Argo
    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

  19. #59
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Adds a bit of realism to the amount of time it takes to perform a complicated and dangerous action properly.
    Here's the thing though,

    realism in a game with magic strike one

    I can pick common locks very very rapidly, some types faster than the progress bar with the right tools. strike two

    Some of us play video games to escape from reality not to have realism. strike three

  20. #60
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    We as a player base are currently benefiting from the progress bar bug and taking our lumps as well.

    I suspect that once they find what happened and fix it so you don't have to start over or wait on a GM that we will see a return to the disable traps speed we had prior to the bug.

    my only fear is that what is happening is we are getting an Auto-Success and if this is true than the longer this Bug lives the sloppier we will get with our disable of traps.

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