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  1. #41
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardianx2009 View Post
    Giving up UMD is sacrificing a lot.
    Honest question. Since you are on a divine caster, and advanced players have access to theoretically infinite Displacement clickies and GH pots/clickies, and race required items are a thing of the past, and holy/anarchic/axiomatic items also don't requires UMD, what else do you use UMD for?
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  2. #42
    Community Member Pilgrim1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Honest question. Since you are on a divine caster, and advanced players have access to theoretically infinite Displacement clickies and GH pots/clickies, and race required items are a thing of the past, and holy/anarchic/axiomatic items also don't requires UMD, what else do you use UMD for?
    teliport scrolls - royal guard mask is expensive
    fire shield scrolls - old stile cloak of ice is rare, potions are difficult to get in bulk
    many CITW weapons require UMD 32+ to equip

  3. #43
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Honest question. Since you are on a divine caster, and advanced players have access to theoretically infinite Displacement clickies and GH pots/clickies, and race required items are a thing of the past, and holy/anarchic/axiomatic items also don't requires UMD, what else do you use UMD for?
    Advanced Players will realize that clickies take up inventory slots... Lots of them.

    Common uses of UMD:
    Teleport - While you are recalling, I am back in town selling/repairing.
    Greater Teleport -While you are recalling, me and my friends are back in town selling/repairing.
    Greater Heroism - When there's no arcane around, I can pass out GH to the whole party. How many clickies are you going to carry to do that?
    Invisibility - How many clickies are you going to need every time you lose invis and need to refresh?
    Enervate - Fantastic complement to Energy Drain.

    Other uses:
    Haste - It cancels out the Slow Debuff that EE casters like to cast on you.
    Blur - Nice to have when you don't have perma-blur from Warpriest.
    Tenser's Transformation - Nice DPS boost to use right before you pop off unbridled fury.


    So with UMD I have all of the above options available to me. I haven't even scratched Artificer scrolls yet..

    Edit: oh and yes.. I forgot, DDoor scrolls. While they can't be bought from vendor, can be still be collected via AH and be useful.
    Last edited by guardianx2009; 10-26-2013 at 09:10 PM.

  4. #44
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Thanks. Forgot about Teleport and Fire Shield.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  5. #45
    Community Member Alex3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardianx2009 View Post
    You need to invest 2 pts in tumble to make it 1pt or you get nothing for it. I run with quicken on Full Time.

    Blade Barrier still works fantastic and efficient for kiting groups of mobs. It does around ~300 damage per tick.


    Symbol of Death - mass-edrain kite -> implosion = fantastic
    Energy Drain - fantastic
    Implosion - especially when combined with edrain, and depending on the quest.


    Word of caution:
    I know everyone loves DPS.. but understand that you will never be top DPS. But you'll have meaningful DPS, if left alone with a mob, you can handle it no problem.

    Be mindful that you're still a cleric. Play like one please - don't be a detriment to your group. It is paramount that you know when to melee and when not to. It is partly the reason why I called this an advanced build.
    When I should I invest 2 points in Tumble to avoid partial point? Is it OK to spend 2 points at lv1 or spend a point at lv1 and lv20?


    Blade Barrier
    Isn't 300 dmg per tick too low for EE quest? Doesn't it take too long?
    Even though I kite I still get a lot of damage from mobs. Also the caster mobs always cast stun spells so I guess it's difficult.
    While I'm grouping BB is no use as nobody tries to kite the mobs even though they are not good at dps or have low survivability.


    I've never heard of Mass Energy Drain. Mobs get to Symbol of Death and casting Energy Drain on a single mob makes Mass Energy Drain near other mobs? Is that how it works?


    I always played like one on Clerics. I played a Pure Healer that was only made for healing. I know I won't be top DPS but I might be better than most of the other DPS in PUG. I have seen too many players who aren't good on DPS. So I won't be much of a detriment to the group even though I'm on full melee mod. But that doesn't mean I won't be giving heals and providing it only when it's necessary. It's a big waste healing on a weak dps. Plus if you have a group that is fully sufficient, you won't even need a healer at all.

  6. #46
    Community Member Book_O_Dragons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex3000 View Post
    When I should I invest 2 points in Tumble to avoid partial point? Is it OK to spend 2 points at lv1 or spend a point at lv1 and lv20?
    It is okay but its better to spend them at level 1 or another low level.
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  7. #47
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex3000 View Post
    Blade Barrier
    Isn't 300 dmg per tick too low for EE quest? Doesn't it take too long?
    Not if you kite properly. It will take you a lot longer to kill 10 mobs individually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex3000 View Post
    Even though I kite I still get a lot of damage from mobs. Also the caster mobs always cast stun spells so I guess it's difficult.
    That's where experience comes into play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex3000 View Post
    While I'm grouping BB is no use as nobody tries to kite the mobs even though they are not good at dps or have low survivability.
    In groups, BB is situational.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alex3000 View Post
    I've never heard of Mass Energy Drain. Mobs get to Symbol of Death and casting Energy Drain on a single mob makes Mass Energy Drain near other mobs? Is that how it works?
    Sounds like you need more experience as a caster cleric. Symbol of Death is an AOE energy drain, any mob that steps into gets drained.. multiple times if they re-enter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex3000 View Post
    I always played like one on Clerics. I played a Pure Healer that was only made for healing. I know I won't be top DPS but I might be better than most of the other DPS in PUG. I have seen too many players who aren't good on DPS. So I won't be much of a detriment to the group even though I'm on full melee mod. But that doesn't mean I won't be giving heals and providing it only when it's necessary. It's a big waste healing on a weak dps. Plus if you have a group that is fully sufficient, you won't even need a healer at all.
    Sounds like you've only played a healbot.

    You need to have mastery of the spells at your disposal. Clerics aren't meant to be made for healing only. Melee is just one tool at your disposal, spells are your other. Wipes can and will happen if in the battlefield, you spend your time melee'ing when the situation calls for CC/insta-kill etc.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardianx2009 View Post
    Advanced Players will realize that clickies take up inventory slots... Lots of them.

    Common uses of UMD:
    Teleport - While you are recalling, I am back in town selling/repairing.
    Greater Teleport -While you are recalling, me and my friends are back in town selling/repairing.
    Greater Heroism - When there's no arcane around, I can pass out GH to the whole party. How many clickies are you going to carry to do that?
    Invisibility - How many clickies are you going to need every time you lose invis and need to refresh?
    Enervate - Fantastic complement to Energy Drain.

    Other uses:
    Haste - It cancels out the Slow Debuff that EE casters like to cast on you.
    Blur - Nice to have when you don't have perma-blur from Warpriest.
    Tenser's Transformation - Nice DPS boost to use right before you pop off unbridled fury.


    So with UMD I have all of the above options available to me. I haven't even scratched Artificer scrolls yet..

    Edit: oh and yes.. I forgot, DDoor scrolls. While they can't be bought from vendor, can be still be collected via AH and be useful.
    I think a lot of those are conveniences rather than necessities. Divines already have the word of recall spell to teleport to the temple in house D. From there it's just a 15 second or so run to the airship portal.

    GH, haste, invis, concealment can be had with clickies that take up no more than 3-7 inventory slots. Divines get so many buffs/cures/heals in their spell list that it shouldn't be hard to fit those into your inventory. Isn't there a Ddoor clicky somewhere in game as well? And if you take a wizzie level blur/stoneskin wands can be used without UMD. I'll admit though tensor's transformation would be wonderful on a battle cleric and enervation scrolls would be a nice complement when you don't have the SP for energy drain.

  9. #49
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axel15810 View Post
    I think a lot of those are conveniences rather than necessities. Divines already have the word of recall spell to teleport to the temple in house D. From there it's just a 15 second or so run to the airship portal.

    GH, haste, invis, concealment can be had with clickies that take up no more than 3-7 inventory slots. Divines get so many buffs/cures/heals in their spell list that it shouldn't be hard to fit those into your inventory. Isn't there a Ddoor clicky somewhere in game as well? And if you take a wizzie level blur/stoneskin wands can be used without UMD. I'll admit though tensor's transformation would be wonderful on a battle cleric and enervation scrolls would be a nice complement when you don't have the SP for energy drain.
    Depending on how you play, whether you solo or not, doing EEs, the type of quest etc. In right situations, these conveniences become very nice conveniences.

    Greater Heroism - If you are soloing, 1 GH clickie (1charge/per) is not enough: you will run out between shrines. You will get debuffed, you might even die. So you'll need 2 at least, maybe even more. That starts to get annoying.

    Invisibility - Same as GH. Duration is short, and you'll often lose invis. Nothing more annoying to find out you've run out of charges when you need it.

    Displacement - GS clickies are the best for these: it gives you 2 min. duration. However it's only 2 charges per. I carry 3 GS displacement clickies, and still often run out of charges.

    Haste - Same as displacement, I carry 3 GS clickies of these too, and often run out of charges. When you are soloing, depending on the quest, arcanes can constantly cast slow on you, it becomes a VERY nice convenience to be able to get rid of it without blowing through your clickies.

    Between Displacement and Haste, I already devoted 6 inventory slots.

    Enervation - Has A LOT more uses than just for when you are out of sp. I blow through stacks of these often.

    Running with Groups, many things become a 'convenience' as you just plow though things. Point is, UMD lets you do things you otherwise can't. And it can shine in the right situations. Whether you choose to advantage of them or neglect them is up to you.

    Edit: Btw, Word of Recall is a poor-man's teleport... a VERY poor man's teleport: When you are recalling, you generally want to recall back to the quest giver to get your end reward.. not back to House D.
    Last edited by guardianx2009; 11-01-2013 at 09:02 AM.

  10. #50
    Community Member Drag-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardianx2009 View Post
    Snip
    • No Splashing. Goal is to maximize the cleric class abilities. Splashing is considered compromising the class.

    Snip
    Why no splashing? How does it compromise the class. It looks like most of the level 20 cleric abilities arent that good.and the only one you would be able to use with out completely cutting out the human tree would be the radiant servant level 20 ability and that is ****.
    It sounds like you have alot of experience with clerics and if you do you should know that the difference between a level 20 cleric and a level 18 cleric is very little other than spell pen and even then its not used in end game any more, so please explain.
    There are so many more options you could open up very easily by splashing 1, 2, or 3 levels of something else. Such as pally for saves, fighter for martial feats and a free feat or two, Monk for evasion stances and free feats, ranger for twf and opening up the ranged options, wizard for a free feat. There so much you could do and you are limiting your self by staying pure cleric. I did not even take into account all the different enhancements you could get.

    Heck you could splash as deep as 5 and still have a fully functional cleric and i know this personally because i played a 15 cleric 3 monk 2 ranger for quite a while and it was able to solo EEs, Furyshot, great melee damage, and also keep up any party. I even solo healed a couple citws so i know it is possible to heal with less than a pure cleric.
    Dragxon Dragbon Ponth Frass

  11. #51
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drag- View Post
    Why no splashing? How does it compromise the class.
    Because I'm a purist. Goal is to be the best CLERIC; Not the best clonk, not some 18/2 'battle cleric' derivative, etc etc.

    You are not a true (100%) cleric if you have to dip into other classes for abilities. This is what I am referring to when to when I say 'compromise'.

  12. #52
    Community Member eachna_gislin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardianx2009 View Post
    I've explored the THF line many times.

    Yes, main problem is you can't scroll cast master's touch. Which means you have to invest a feat or splash. Both cases aren't desirable because:
    - Feat means you're limited to one weapon subtype, which for a lot of reasons isn't very good.
    - Splash screams "Baaaattle cleeerric"... for obvious reasons.

    In some ways, THF is even more feat intensive than TWF. Since at minimum, you need to invest in PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, Power Attack, Improved Crit, in addition to proficiency. Without leaving room for the "core" cleric feats, you're not much different from a battle-melee only cleric.

    Not saying you can't, but I found it too restrictive and not enjoyable.
    I would respond with the note that a half elf with fighter dilly works beautifully as you can use any non-exotic melee weapon. I mostly play half-elves and this is one of my preferred dilettante feats (along with Paladin for the saves). However this build has too low a starting strength for it. I think you can "afford" to play this as a half elf if you have a couple extra +3/+4 tomes to massage your stats into the right starting configuration (and still keep UMD). I didn't count all the points spent but it looks like enough were spent in the human tree to move over to the half elf tree and get most or all of the dilly line.

    Kudos to playing your cleric as a pure class and making it viable in EE. Any chance of you building a pure EE paladin?

  13. #53
    Community Member Maelodic's Avatar
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    Are you still using this build? I think it's really awesome- and probably will be doing it for my next life.

    I have a couple questions if that's alright-

    How do you spread your enhancements?

    Do you have any opinion on Druid PL for Flame Blade?
    Makes use of all that Wisdom and breaks quite a bit of DR- adds blinding embers and inferno- can be used as a general option. I'm not new to the game, but I don't really have any good weapons for this- I'm thinking it might be useful should end up going with this build.

    Are you still rocking everything?
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  14. #54
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelodic View Post
    Are you still using this build? I think it's really awesome- and probably will be doing it for my next life.

    I have a couple questions if that's alright-

    How do you spread your enhancements?

    Do you have any opinion on Druid PL for Flame Blade?
    Makes use of all that Wisdom and breaks quite a bit of DR- adds blinding embers and inferno- can be used as a general option. I'm not new to the game, but I don't really have any good weapons for this- I'm thinking it might be useful should end up going with this build.

    Are you still rocking everything?
    Sorry for the late response, I took a break from the game for a while. So much has changed, there's quite a bit of catch up to do.

    My enhancements are mostly spread between radiant servant and warpriest. Mainly radiant servant for burst and aura, warpriest for divine might, smite weakness and ameliorating strike.

    As for flame blade, it's interesting, I never tried it. It'll probably work as long as it has the same crit profile, especially for heroic content. Question is, is it worth taking up a feat slot...

  15. #55
    Community Member pappo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardianx2009 View Post
    Sorry for the late response, I took a break from the game for a while. So much has changed, there's quite a bit of catch up to do..
    I just finished a Necro Cleric build, and was going to make a healbot next life until saw your build. I have a few questions.

    Are you still running this build? Is it still working for EE?
    Do you have any plans to update this build for the current updates (u25) of DDO?
    Can you show your enhancements enhancements?

    +1 for a nice looking build.

  16. #56
    Community Member Adorind's Avatar
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    I would love to see how this build looks with all the new updates applied. I have a character with 3PL cleric and 2PL favored soul. I plan to additional 3PL wiz and 3PL Sorc. I want to be an uber cleric. There aren't many people willing to be clerics any more. It is sad really. Thanks for the thread. I loved reading it!

  17. #57
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pappo View Post
    I just finished a Necro Cleric build, and was going to make a healbot next life until saw your build. I have a few questions.

    Are you still running this build? Is it still working for EE?
    Do you have any plans to update this build for the current updates (u25) of DDO?
    Can you show your enhancements enhancements?

    +1 for a nice looking build.
    Wow, I'm a little bit surprised ppl are still replying to this thread. I've been on vacation stopped playing a month so so ago, but I'll try to answer your questions and share my experience:

    Are you still running this build? Is it still working for EE? ]
    I've been going through several eTRs to maximize doublestrike / colors. It got to the point I want to play nothing but EE. I tweaked a few feats for lives when I'm running in Primal and LD. Running in those destinies make EE fairly easy and many of them easily solo'ed.


    Do you have any plans to update this build for the current updates (u25) of DDO?
    I don't think I want to go through all that. Powercreep has made the game very easy - you can get away with a lot of stuff. Much of the trick to EE is learning your EDs and how to maximize them. LD and Primal really makes EE look easy. All I tweaked for these EDs to swapping out metamagics (heighten / maximize) to gain cleave.

    Primal is a ton of fun, tree mode really crushes EE - you can crit big numbers (12k!) in hulk smash mode. I swap in Cleave / Gr. Cleave to maximize tree.

    I've also played alot in EA - it is not nearly as easy button as LD/PA. To maximize EA, I had to to be very button/combo heavy:
    - Dropping soundburst (unheightened) + soundburst sla combo before engaging damage spells
    - Chain all the cheap powerful spells (divine wrath -> eburst -> sunbolt -> avenging light sla / situationally: ruin) as part of attack rotation.
    - Popping implosion whenever
    In undead heavy quests, I might tweak my EA gain Reborn In light so I can be in Angel Form more often (Cycle between Reborn in Light (10 min cool down) and Ascendance (5min cool down)).

    Can you show your enhancements enhancements?
    I'm always swapping enhancements in and out depending on ED. In general here are my thoughts about the trees:

    - Always main in radiant servant: Aura is great of course but Cure Focus + last core (Radiant Servant) makes the Cure Moderate SLA fantastic. It replaces my need to twist in cocoon and acts as my first line mass heal button.
    - 2nd tier in Divine Disciple: For the SP and spell power gains. Sunburst spell is awesome for clearing vampires and shadows (at least until they fix it).
    - Harper is good for Melee Power: when running in melee-centric EDs, better off investing here than DD.
    - Warpriest is junk: Only grab the low hanging fruits (toughness, divine power etc), rest isn't really worth it.

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