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  1. #1
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    Post Help: Creating a Cleric

    I'm creating a 32 point build with the intention of trying out healing in DDO. I decided on cleric and came up with 2 different approaches. I can afford +1 tomes and +2 tomes. +3 is still a little out of reach as this is an alt, unless you feel like it would improve the build a lot.

    The builds vary a little depending on if I need UMD or not. In both builds the +2 int could instead used for Cha, giving an additional turning. But UMD is needed for enervation/Fire shield/Displacement/heal scrolls early, so I don't think I can drop it.
    Other skills I will max: Balance, Concentration. Don't feel like I have the points for jump. Have to get that from somewhere else.

    Don't worry about leveling. It is a first life character and I will have a lesser tome of learning. Leveling won't be a issue.
    I'm open for splits (rogue, fighter, monk, anything) if you feel like it would improve the build.
    I guess the things I want to run are EN, EH, Raids. EE if this ever gets geared.

    The first one:
    Race: Dwarf, 20 cleric
    Feats:
    Maximize, Empower healing, Extra turning, Quicken, Toughness, Mental Toughness, Improved mental toughness, Epic mental toughness, epic toughness.
    Starting stats would be:
    8 Str. 8 Dex. 19 Con. 11 Int. 17 Wis. 9 Cha.
    The idea here is to use a +2 Con tome by level 24 for epic toughness. Other benefits of dwarfs is the additional SP from dwarven faith. The offset is lower amount of turning and a -1 reduced wisdom. A +1 int tome is also used at level 3 or cha could be lowered to 8.

    This build could also be done with human starting 8/8/18/9/17/10. And then using one of the levelups in Con.
    The difference would be the enchancement changes, and I don't really know what the feat should be used on.

    Second build:
    Race: Human, Cleric 19/1 Wizard split (for the feat)
    Feats: Maxmimize, Empower healing, Extra turning, Quicken, Toughness, Mental Toughness, Improved mental toughness, Spell penetration, Greater spell penetration, Epic mental toughness, Epic spell penetration.
    Starting stats: 8 Str. 8 Dex. 16 Con. 10 Int. 18 Wis. 12 Cha.

    The idea here is that the extreme maximum hitpoints of the dwarf is wasted (Radiant II will be on, healing myself), so instead the spell penetration feats are gotten so I'll be able to use the level 9 spell, Drain level. With lowered Con this build can achieve jump without nerfing charisma to the ground.

    If you think both aren't good, that's fine! I just need some critical advice on what to do instead then.
    I would also like some advice on which epic destiny to aim for with this kind of build.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by n1x0r- View Post
    I'm creating a 32 point build with the intention of trying out healing in DDO. I decided on cleric and came up with 2 different approaches. I can afford +1 tomes and +2 tomes. +3 is still a little out of reach as this is an alt, unless you feel like it would improve the build a lot.

    The builds vary a little depending on if I need UMD or not. In both builds the +2 int could instead used for Cha, giving an additional turning. But UMD is needed for enervation/Fire shield/Displacement/heal scrolls early, so I don't think I can drop it.
    Other skills I will max: Balance, Concentration. Don't feel like I have the points for jump. Have to get that from somewhere else.

    Don't worry about leveling. It is a first life character and I will have a lesser tome of learning. Leveling won't be a issue.
    I'm open for splits (rogue, fighter, monk, anything) if you feel like it would improve the build.
    I guess the things I want to run are EN, EH, Raids. EE if this ever gets geared.

    The first one:
    Race: Dwarf, 20 cleric
    Feats:
    Maximize, Empower healing, Extra turning, Quicken, Toughness, Mental Toughness, Improved mental toughness, Epic mental toughness, epic toughness.
    Starting stats would be:
    8 Str. 8 Dex. 19 Con. 11 Int. 17 Wis. 9 Cha.
    The idea here is to use a +2 Con tome by level 24 for epic toughness. Other benefits of dwarfs is the additional SP from dwarven faith. The offset is lower amount of turning and a -1 reduced wisdom. A +1 int tome is also used at level 3 or cha could be lowered to 8.

    This build could also be done with human starting 8/8/18/9/17/10. And then using one of the levelups in Con.
    The difference would be the enchancement changes, and I don't really know what the feat should be used on.

    Second build:
    Race: Human, Cleric 19/1 Wizard split (for the feat)
    Feats: Maxmimize, Empower healing, Extra turning, Quicken, Toughness, Mental Toughness, Improved mental toughness, Spell penetration, Greater spell penetration, Epic mental toughness, Epic spell penetration.
    Starting stats: 8 Str. 8 Dex. 16 Con. 10 Int. 18 Wis. 12 Cha.

    The idea here is that the extreme maximum hitpoints of the dwarf is wasted (Radiant II will be on, healing myself), so instead the spell penetration feats are gotten so I'll be able to use the level 9 spell, Drain level. With lowered Con this build can achieve jump without nerfing charisma to the ground.

    If you think both aren't good, that's fine! I just need some critical advice on what to do instead then.
    I would also like some advice on which epic destiny to aim for with this kind of build.

    I ended up trying out a 32 point cleric with the goal of "endgame" healing in mine.. learned a LOT lol..
    I do pretty well, don't use a lot of scrolls, switch ED's when necessary (unyielding sentinel for survivability, EA for more casting power/SP pool). I prefer humans for the bonus feat

    First thing: You can drop mental toughness/improved mental toughness (see detail below). Splashing will affect your caster level when casting offensive spells, which is less forgiving on first life.

    Second: I've never found extra turning to be useful.. Once you get into your ED's, especially with US, you'll have plenty.. and you will have plenty along the way. If you need the extra bursts, there are some in the enhancement lines.

    Third: The reality is, you can dump Dex if you can slot +4 dex somewhere in your gear, this will fill out the maximum dex bonus on the armor.. watch out for those traps tho lol. I assume you're planning on heavy armor.

    Fourth: As long as you pay attn. to your SP conservation (you will learn) mental toughness and improved mental toughness are wastes.

    Fifth: Consider what to do with the SP you DON'T end up using healing, this is one thing that caught me off guard.. you will get into some pretty sturdy groups.. anything that can help your OFFENSIVE casting is a bonus, so consider Spell focus Evocation or Necromancy lines.. also consider the spell Penn feat.

    Sixth: you'll need a little strength to carry stuff and prevent encumbrance when being enfeebled.

    Your Wisdom score affects the DC's of your Insta-kill spells like destruction or implosion as well as the ability for mobs to save against your other spells like blade barrier, Flamestrike, etc. so keep that in mind.. I'm all for pushing WIS as high as possible as often as possible.

    As far as skills, if you dump INT, pretty much your points should go into concentration first, balance 2nd, then jump.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by n1x0r- View Post
    Second build:
    Race: Human, Cleric 19/1 Wizard split (for the feat)
    Feats: Maxmimize, Empower healing, Extra turning, Quicken, Toughness, Mental Toughness, Improved mental toughness, Spell penetration, Greater spell penetration, Epic mental toughness, Epic spell penetration.
    Starting stats: 8 Str. 8 Dex. 16 Con. 10 Int. 18 Wis. 12 Cha.
    My necro cleric is similar, except instead of mental toughness, improved mental toughness, epic mental toughness and extra turning I took heighten, enlarge, necro focus and greater necro focus. (I actually took past life: wizard instead of greater necro focus.) You really want at least one focus feat in order to qualify for the +3 dc twist from magister.

    His necro dc is around 47 and his spell pen is 39 (37 without his one wizard past life) which steamrolls most of EH pretty well, including drow spell resistance. 37 spell pen is no-fail for EH MotU drow, while 39 is no-fail for EH VON3 & BoB drow. Melee giants in gianthold have fort saves above his pay grade but there's plenty of giant casters to feast on. For example, in tor his necro is fail-only-on-a-1 against fire giants and spellbinders. And there are a LOT of fire giants and spellbinders in tor. The hill giant melee are command-able as well.

    I really didn't want to take enlarge but grudgingly slotted it in for healing FoT. Now that I've healed several EH FoTs I'm in love with enlarge. It's not strictly required but makes life soooooo much easier in there. It's also super nice for Renewal, Avenging Light and Slay Living.

    For stats I went same as you except 14 strength, getting those extra 6 points by starting with 14 con and 10 cha instead of your 16 & 12. This allows going true melee for levels 1-11 (until bb @ 12) by taking power attack and using master's touch to swing away with THF weapons like carnifex. I really enjoyed levels 1-11, and don't regret the extra strength now. His normal jump with just ship buffs is in the high 30s, which is awesome for bb kiting. (EA wings also helps a lot.)

    Build is linked in signature. Worth a look even if just for ideas.

    EDIT: I swap out power attack for spell pen at level 12 when I get bb.

  4. #4
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    Hey guys Thank you for answering.

    I like your ideas, walking around as a stack of heal scrolls is hardly fun. However, my main will be a caster who I plan to TR a few times in FVS/Cleric/Sorcerer/Wizard (currently on sorcerer). So all that fun I'll get to eventually.
    I feel like picking the (G/E)SF or (G/E)SP feats might just be limiting my very endgame. As far as I read I won't be able to get through their DC anyways, maybe the mobs' spell resistance.

    That being said, I looked around the forums and found some interesting threads. Stealing a little here and there I came up with a new build

    The idea is a cleric 18/2 paladin splash with decent cha which will allow high saves. The turns from the extra charisma can be used to produce emp heal/max bursts (radiant servant I).

    The build: Human 18/2 Cleric/paladin
    Stats:
    12 strength (I will be in Heavy armor and Tower shield this time, one of your suggestions/will also help early game)
    8 dex
    14 con
    16 wis
    16 cha

    Feats: 10 (7 normal, 1 human, 2 epic):
    Maximize
    Empower healing
    Quicken
    Toughness
    (4 feats, I'm pretty set on these 4)

    Mental toughness
    Improved mental toughness
    Epic mental toughness
    (7 feats, I don't think I can live without my mana after being uses to my sorcerer ^^, the splash also lowers the maximum mana)

    Extra turning
    Shield mastery
    Improved shield mastery
    (10 feats, for PRR and extra bursts)

    The tower shield profiency will be gotten from Master's touch scrolls.
    I can buy them on my main for 2pp each. And they last until I rest, it won't be a problem.

    The skills will be: concentration, UMD, balance.
    A +2 int tome will be used at level 7 to gain a little jump.
    They go for around 100k~ on my server. So it won't be a huge investment.
    (I won't drop UMD. I believe it is too important for fire shield, enervation and displacement scrolls to name a few)

    The idea of this build is to use damage reduction and then the healing from Radiant servant to keep me up.
    The paladin will allow for high saves, so I won't get perma-"cc'ed".

    So far this build has 0 offense. The idea is to use light-based spells which has no SR check or DC check.
    I think maximize will be enough for this.

    But alternatively a level of eg. fighter could be taken, which would give me room to get empower (also help on bursts?).

    I'm still working on the enchancements. However, it would most likely include both the Prayer line and the Smiting line, Radiant Servant II and the Healing amplification of Human.

    What do you think? Good? Bad? Would like some feedback

    I have also been looking at Epic destinies and I'm not sure how I would set it up. However I'm thinking either Exalted angel for Renewal? using twist of fate in Unyielding sentinel for Endless turning, Shield prowess and Legendary shield mastery.
    Or if it's possible, go unyielding sentinel with a twist in Exalted angel for Renewal.

    ... Not really sure how these twists of fate work.

    Anyways, I appreciate any critical feedback

    Edit: I'm also not sure where I should place my levelups. I guess I would place them into wisdom.
    Edit2: It seems the net gain on improved shield mastery is only 5 PRR. Meaning the feat isn't that good. So the build has something to play around with. I'm thinking empower for the extra "oomph" on the bursts. I was also suggested to go drow for +1 all saves and +1 turning. However, I would hate to see healing amp go. Another suggestion was half-elf paladin dilettante, but I think the build can reach 30 or more cha and I wouldn't have to buy half-elf.
    Last edited by n1x0r-; 06-12-2013 at 10:12 AM.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by n1x0r- View Post
    I feel like picking the (G/E)SF or (G/E)SP feats might just be limiting my very endgame. As far as I read I won't be able to get through their DC anyways, maybe the mobs' spell resistance.
    On EE this is correct. DC casting doesn't work in EE. Works great in EH and under, though. (A truly optimized DC build can work in the easier EE content, but not the more recent packs like High Road and Gianthold. This appears to be a trend that's getting worse before it gets better, if ever.)

    So far this build has 0 offense. The idea is to use light-based spells which has no SR check or DC check.
    I think maximize will be enough for this.
    Cleric light spells tickle mobs in EE. Essentially, they do nothing but shirardi procs. Blade barrier might be the best bet to generate a lot of shirardi procs quickly.

    I have also been looking at Epic destinies and I'm not sure how I would set it up. However I'm thinking either Exalted angel for Renewal? using twist of fate in Unyielding sentinel for Endless turning, Shield prowess and Legendary shield mastery.
    Or if it's possible, go unyielding sentinel with a twist in Exalted angel for Renewal.
    Exalted Angel is the DC casting destiny. It sounds like you plan on playing EE, so the only way you'll have any offense at all is going Shirardi Champion and spamming Avenging Light (twist), Nimbus of Light and Searing Light and just waiting on those 7% chance procs to proc something highly damaging. No metamagics on the spells to conserve mana since the spells themselves don't do anything against EE mobs. (You can turn metas on for Avenging Light, though, since they're free.)

    Unyielding Sentinel is more of a defensive destiny for clerics. As in, if you want to ONLY heal, Unyielding Sentinel is likely the best choice.


    Personally, I don't play EE because I don't like:

    a) mobs always hit you regardless of your AC
    b) DC casting doesn't work
    c) in order to offensive cast you have to spam low-sp low-damage spells in shirardi waiting for the rare proc to actually hurt the mobs, all while jumping around like your head's on fire to avoid getting hit

    I stick to EH, which is super fun for a DC cleric. I understand your logic on the mental toughness line, but to me that's just wasting three feats, which essentially gives up on the idea of being able to do even EH dc casting on drow unless you get the full +9 spell pen from 3/3 wizard/fvs past lives. That's a ton of grind, and even with the mental toughness line you'll still be way behind sorcerer mana levels.

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