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  1. #1

    Default New found appreciation for DDO

    I recently tried that other D&D MMO, you know the one in open beta right now by Cryptic Studios. And well....

    It sucks.

    Don't get me wrong, I really wanted to like it - I have tons of fun in their Star Trek Online and Champions Online games, but boy did they ever miss the mark on this one.

    They should have just called it X-Box D&D - or better yet just left D&D out of the title altogether. It doesn't feel like D&D in the least. It's a console game wrapped in an MMO shell that only in passing honors the fun that is D&D by using names of places and montsters from the books.

    After playing DDO since launch, I have gotten a little burned out on it, but after seeing how badly that other game plays, I have a whole new appreciation for just how well our talented team at Turbine has been able to capture the flavor of the PnP classic.

    Just for one examp[e, lets take a look at a Rogue character. In DDO, you are able to play one pretty much like set out in 3rd edition D&D. You have lock picking skills, you can sneak around, you may be good at fighting, but certainly not a well as a dedicated fighter, and so forth. In DDO you have a myriad of options to chose from and many skills at you beck and call to best whatever challenges you face. In 'X-Box D&D' you have a limited number of actions you may place on your 6-8 spaces action bar (which coincide with X-Box controller buttons) and though these may change as you advance through levels (which have absolutely no correlation to PnP levels) you are always stuck with only being able to use the 6-8 that you have on the bar. The rogue doesn't even have stealth capability until level 10, but you are give a 'sneak attack' skill at level 1 that can only be used while in stealth.... I mean seriously, who thought this out? Additionally, said 'sneak attack' is no attack whatsoever - in mearly gives you a +10% movement bonus while steathed...and the stealth itself is timed, giving only 5 seconds at level 10 after activation before the rogue unstealths automatically.

    The combat system, while flashy, is sadly built for children with ADHD. Everything happens at lightspeed and apparently a rouge is as good at hacking monters down as a fighter - he just has less armor. But that can be overcome by using the 'super combo' attack which make you dart around hitting every opponent in a room in a flurry of flasky, color filled, super speed attacks that would put most kung fu masters to shame.

    The only thing X-Box D&D has going for it is the Foundry. This is the ability for players to create their own dungeons or outdoor adventures for others to enjoy. Players have made some absolutely stunning stories in Star Trek Online using this feature, even with it's limited toolset currently; stories that even the Dev team have said are better that what they have made. If DDO had this feature, oh man, could Turbine rake in the money (see 'player created content' link in sig below).

    That said, again, I can't say how much more I appreciate all the hard work that has gone into DDO to keep it (mostly) true to it's roots after seeing the terribad X-Box 'D&D'. And I certainly wouldn't still be playing (and paying) seven years later for this fun past time if it was anything like that other game. Thanks Turbine folks for making a truely great D&D MMO!
    Eliminate 'ninja' looting from DDO:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243939
    Bring teleport more inline with PnP:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=403747
    Player made quests can work in DDO:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=352498

  2. #2

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    Oh and I forgot to say, the beginning of the tutorial in X-Box D&D is a direct copy of the start of DDO's - dragon attack on a ship and you with nothing but rags on standing on a beach to collect gear with the help of an NPC.

    Homage to DDO? Or just a blantent rip off?
    Eliminate 'ninja' looting from DDO:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243939
    Bring teleport more inline with PnP:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=403747
    Player made quests can work in DDO:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=352498

  3. #3
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    I really have no idea these days if development teams are simply incapable of producing games with real strategic depth due to designer incompetence, or they are just trying to pander to the primitive drooling masses in an effort to grab the most cash. This kind of lowest common denominator thing happens I suspect when you try to listen to feedback from everybody instead of being selective.
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  4. #4
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    I have to agree - I played the competitor and was bored after a couple of weeks. There is no depth to the game and everywhere you turn is a blatant cash grab.

    Between the Enhancement changes and increasing Astral Shard presence I hope that DDO avoids becoming more like that game.

  5. #5
    Community Member Diroctive's Avatar
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    I agree on all points, I don't want to quit before I hit 60 (53 at the moment). While Neverwinter character customization (among many other things) doesn't come near DDO and there are plenty of sewers at the start of the game, a lot of the areas have massive amounts of detail put into them. The game is very comparable to the 2 hours I've played of World of Warcraft, the entire game has been very linear, a lot of "go to X, do Y, kill Z amounts of A, come back, turn in, pick up 3 more quests.."

    It's still a very good looking game







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  6. #6
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Neverwinter has about as much in commin with D&D as DDO does. It is as hack and slash with the same "ramped up HP and quantity of mobs = difficulty" mentality.

    As far as the claims of the game being too linear, this is true if players only want to level through the quests from the game itself. Anyone jonsing for new content should be levelign through Foundry quests.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  7. #7
    Community Member ThePrincipal's Avatar
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    I also disliked NVN.

    However, DDO still needs to continue to put out a quality product. Because DDO not only competes for my time with other MMOs, it competes with all other entertainment.

  8. #8
    Community Member badbob117's Avatar
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    Default well,

    I dig both games.

    I like the fact Neverwinter is 100% free to play. I love the fact i can trade astral diamonds for store stuff. Unlike this game where the Astral shard AH just seems to be a cash cow for Turbine with almost zero benefit to the player selling his items. Man if they let us convert AD to Tp The game would be booming right now. Instead Turbine chose the greed route and the game is in rough shape..

    I think both games are pretty good. This game however seems to have taken a turn for the worst and discourages grouping at every corner lately. The balancing has always been a issue with DDO. A few crazy classes and a bunch of not so hot ones. Most hardcore gamers think this game died in 08. The lack of PR from Turbine is horrendous. Most do not even know it exists. When people talk about DDO on other sites it is always in the past tense, as if the game shut down already. The bugs, the lag, the balance aspects and lack of players can be quite frustrating in DDO. It has been a very awful year. Seems to have just slid downhill since the last expansion.

    I think both companies could learn from each others mistakes. Both are pretty cool games and drastically different. The cash grabs in both can be a deterrent though. I personally think the f2p genre has played its course. Most are ready to just go to a sub game and get everything with a monthly fee as opposed to spending god knows what on some free to play zynga monster. Or better yet migrate to a console and just buy a game and play it. No strings attached.

    I personally cannot wait for the new xbox. When that gets released all these so called "Free to play" games can kiss my ass! I am sick of em and to be honest, It is not like any of these pc games are any better quality then a console game. Most do not even compare lately.

    Just my 2 cents. I personally like both games but neither one is up to par in my books.
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  9. #9
    Community Member waryJerry's Avatar
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    While I don't think Neverwinter is as bad as some of the posters imply my experience was similar and after a few weeks I deleted it from my hard drive. I would argue that there is much about this game that can evolve; however, what can't really evolve is the characters they offer--you're almost completely locked into whatever role the devs there deem is appropriate for a given class. I'm sure they can tweak this somewhat but multiclassing just isn't part of their design and consequently there's an almost complete lack of complexity and flexibility to their character system. I must say that I had a lot of fun when I first started playing the game: the dungeons are pretty ingenious and reward careful exporation and the combat is fun at least if you choose a rogue or great weapon fighter. But I agree with the poster who suggested a certain money-grubbing in the design. I enjoy and continue to play Star Trek Online and I even think Turbine could learn some things by looking at that game, but as of now my D&D hunger will have to be fed by DDO alone.

  10. #10
    Community Member Graskitch's Avatar
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    the one thing that amazed me when trying 'x-box d&d' (will the post get banned in the forums if we actually call it by its name nw?) is how many players were online -- the chat window was scrolling by so quickly that I could not read everything. and so many people running about. but I do agree with the OP, it does feel very much like a console game. but it made me wonder if the p&p version (is it 4th edition now) plays like this? I stopped reading most of the books after 3rd edition because it became a much more simplified miniatures-oriented game. playing this new mmorpg made me wonder if this is how it feels like to play 4th edition?

    I also found it odd how things seemed to parallel to ddo, I was not certain whether d&d mmorpgs are forced by wizards to use certain terminology like astral diamonds or if they are borrowing from each other? for example, I believe nw introduced cosmetic clothing in their game... in the recent update 18, ddo introduced cosmetics armor and helm.
    there were other odd crossovers that I found in nw.

    one of the things that nw has over ddo is the diversity in their character customization of appearance. you can be overweight and elderly, just the way I like. AND you can play as a tiefling and customize your horns. AND there are mounts and companions.

    even with the major exploit that nw had with its auction house fiasco, it still would be interesting for ddo to introduce some gateway version of the auction house and astral exchange and mail server. I am hoping the competition from nw generates some new content and upgrades for ddo.

  11. #11
    Community Member waryJerry's Avatar
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    I prefer tieflings who look more himan, where the horns are a suggestion of the diabolic within them. In Neverwinter you could tweak the shape of the horns somewhat but Tieflings still pretty much all looked the same.

  12. #12
    Community Member skullzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diroctive View Post
    I agree on all points, I don't want to quit before I hit 60 (53 at the moment). While Neverwinter character customization (among many other things) doesn't come near DDO and there are plenty of sewers at the start of the game, a lot of the areas have massive amounts of detail put into them. The game is very comparable to the 2 hours I've played of World of Warcraft, the entire game has been very linear, a lot of "go to X, do Y, kill Z amounts of A, come back, turn in, pick up 3 more quests.."

    It's still a very good looking game
    I am sorry. From what I have played I have never seen images that splendid on my computer screen.
    It really sucks that the max resolution is only 1400 or 1600 one. One a monitor that has a resolution of 1900x1200 that is weaksauce.

    I have to agree with the OP that it is more or less a console game on the pc made into an mmo.

    Out of a normal keyboard only 12 keys are used to play the game. If there is a way to map more actions to different keys I have not found it.

    Also what I have run into for item wise my equipment is outshined by the items I pick up in the very next quest I run. This gets boring old fast.

    Also for character leveling what I have seen all of the characters of one class look like they will have all the same abilities and effectiveness. So no character customization other than when you take the abilities.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradik_Losdar View Post
    It sucks.
    Plz... this just tells me you are narrowed minded to the fullest extent!

    I play both. Neverwinter is not DDO, but offers a very different play style.

    If you can't get past your baby bottle for DDO. Then I don't see much from you ever.

    Time to give up the nipple....

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Neverwinter has about as much in commin with D&D as DDO does..
    Who cares, it is still a blast to play.

    D&D or not, it is fun.

  15. #15
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Why aren't you making this thread over on the nw boards? It's like me making a thread and declaring EVE sucks!

    If you wanna declare a game blows you go over there and you tell them.
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  16. #16
    Community Member Orratti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blaze44 View Post
    Who cares, it is still a blast to play.

    D&D or not, it is fun.
    I would love to play a full world D&D game that is changed and influenced by the players. That develops a history as it is played. That has every aspect of the game you could think of. Hopefully some time in the future this will happen.

    I'm glad to see DDO getting competition. I do want to play a much better D&D game eventually though so I'd say I care.

  17. #17
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Threads like this make me miss being able to neg rep

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Threads like this make me miss being able to neg rep
    Yeah that would show them, ugh...

    The entire rep system needs to go, about as useful as sh*t in a bucket.

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