Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    73

    Default Opinions on this Shintao please.

    I’d like some opinions on this shintao build before I spend time playing it. I think it will be helpful to explain why I made the choices I did, but I want to qualify that by stating that I am open to all advice.

    I chose dwarf for Dwarven Tactics and the the +2 Con. It’s not that I’m interested in Con in particular, but it helps having any increase to a useful monk attribute, especially considering that I’d rather not spend turbine points on tomes. The plan is to spend PP on a Dex+1 tome for ITWF and to use my favor tome on Str. Hopefully by the time I’d be interested in it, I could also afford a Wis+2 tome to qualify for Void Strike IV, which I think I’ve heard good things about. Dwarves’ bonuses to balance and saves are nice too. Human came in a very close second for the extra feat and healing amplification. The only non-f2p race I have unlocked is warforged.

    I really like Cleave in and of itself, so I take it early. It’s also a pre-req. choice for Shintao-I and a pre-req. for Overwhelming Crit. I take each TWF feat as early as possible except for delaying GTWF to take Improved Crit Blunt. I’m not really sure what to take at 24, or if I’ll even get to 24 on my first life.

    My highest-level character is 14, so I have some questions about things that happen later than that. I imagine I’ll want to TR into a better monk. Having more build points and stronger unarmed attacks sounds very nice. In addition to obtaining the tokens needed for the TR item, I hear that people also like to obtain equipment and unlock epic destinies before TRing. How good will this character be at doing those things?

    The build doesn’t include enhancements or skills. I’m leaning towards Clever Monkey. I’ll max Concentration, keep Balance pretty high, get enough Jump, and maybe put some points into Spot. In addition to finding hidden opponents, does it increase the distance at which you can see non-hidden opponents?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 24 Lawful Neutral Dwarf Male
    (20 Monk \ 4 Epic) 
    Hit Points: 318
    Spell Points: 0
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 24)
    Strength             16                    24
    Dexterity            16                    17
    Constitution         16                    16
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom               14                    14
    Charisma              6                     6
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 24)
    Balance               7                    15
    Bluff                -2                     2
    Concentration         7                    11
    Diplomacy            -2                     2
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle               -2                     2
    Heal                  2                     6
    Hide                  3                     7
    Intimidate           -2                     2
    Jump                  6                    14
    Listen                2                     6
    Move Silently         3                     7
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair               -1                     3
    Search               -1                     5
    Spot                  2                     6
    Swim                  3                    11
    Tumble                4                     8
    Use Magic Device     n/a                    2
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 6 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 9 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 11 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 14 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 15 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 17 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 18 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 19 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 20 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 21 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Overwhelming Critical
    
    
    Level 22 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 23 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 24 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder

  2. #2
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Aegis
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Things you need to consider changing (my non-professional personal opinion)

    Epic Feats: Improved Martial Arts and Vorpal Strikes. Both of these are great bonuses to the Monk

    Would you consider points into UMD for scrolls? I have a second life Monk (34 point) Helf that has enough UMD for Teleport scrolls at Level 25 which makes for speedy travel in public places. He's Cleric Dilly, Light Monk that is full Wisdom. (Link below - Atremus)

    And are you 100% sure you want to go strength based? If so, drop Stunning Fist since it won't work well (DC is WIS Based)
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  3. #3
    Founder & Hero
    2016 DDO Players Council
    Uska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Moosehead Lake
    Posts
    23,489

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    Things you need to consider changing (my non-professional personal opinion)

    Epic Feats: Improved Martial Arts and Vorpal Strikes. Both of these are great bonuses to the Monk

    Would you consider points into UMD for scrolls? I have a second life Monk (34 point) Helf that has enough UMD for Teleport scrolls at Level 25 which makes for speedy travel in public places. He's Cleric Dilly, Light Monk that is full Wisdom. (Link below - Atremus)

    And are you 100% sure you want to go strength based? If so, drop Stunning Fist since it won't work well (DC is WIS Based)
    If he does that he will need to pump his wis a lot which isn't a bad idea might need more dex as well

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    13,966

    Default

    FWIW, it looks a lot like my Shintao dwarf, who is supposed to be a Void IV / Wind-Earth stance hate-tank:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Dwarf Female
    (20 Monk) 
    Hit Points: 312
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 16
    Will: 20
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    16
    Dexterity            16                    18
    Constitution         16                    18
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom               16                    26
    Charisma              6                     6
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Blow
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 6 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense I
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense II
    Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
    Enhancement: Lifting the Veil
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise II
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Shintao Monk I
    Enhancement: Void Strike I
    Enhancement: Adept of Rock
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    
    
    Level 9 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 11 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery III
    Enhancement: Shintao Monk II
    Enhancement: Void Strike II
    Enhancement: Adept of Wind
    Enhancement: Master of Stone
    Enhancement: Adept of Flame
    Enhancement: Adept of Rain
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    
    
    Level 13 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 14 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 15 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    
    
    Level 17 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 18 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 19 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 20 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Enhancement: Monk Serenity
    Enhancement: Dwarven Spell Defense III
    Enhancement: Fists of Iron
    Enhancement: Shintao Monk III
    Enhancement: Void Strike III
    Enhancement: Void Strike IV
    Enhancement: Grandmaster of Storms
    Enhancement: Master of Thunder
    Enhancement: Grandmaster of Mountains
    Enhancement: Master of Bonfires
    Enhancement: Master of the Sea
    Epic feats: Imp Martial Arts and Vorpal Strikes, as Atremus suggests.

    The big drawback to Void Strike IV is it costs almost half your APs to get it, so it really limits your enh options; plus you need 3 base stats to be at least 16 and 1 at least 18 so you can add the necessary stances.

    Unfortunately, I'm still leveling her, so I couldn't tell you how she performs in epics. But I'm hopeful that the Enhancement overhaul to dwarves and Shintao will make her an even more awesome hate-tanking punching machine (knock on wood)!

  5. #5
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    The Land of Oz
    Posts
    1,534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    Things you need to consider changing (my non-professional personal opinion)

    Epic Feats: Improved Martial Arts and Vorpal Strikes. Both of these are great bonuses to the Monk

    Would you consider points into UMD for scrolls? I have a second life Monk (34 point) Helf that has enough UMD for Teleport scrolls at Level 25 which makes for speedy travel in public places. He's Cleric Dilly, Light Monk that is full Wisdom. (Link below - Atremus)

    And are you 100% sure you want to go strength based? If so, drop Stunning Fist since it won't work well (DC is WIS Based)
    Except.. stunning fist is required (no choice) for Shintao I.
    Anyway, I've never played a str based monk, never saw the fun in it. That's just me, but w/e.
    From my wis-based monk perspective, I see it as being a typical (more or less) build. I'd consider swapping improved sunder out, but that's because things never lived long enough for it to matter (and my DC was high enough)

    And seeming you mentioned gear/destinies, any build (ANY) can get those on eHard. My sorc managed to solo some eHard using no spells (aside from bufsf/reconstruct) using an Oathblade... with 17 str.
    For destinies, don't run Impossible Demands 3 times. Twice is okay (irrc), then just farm that at level 25 (not earlier). It's mindnumbing, but simple and easy ED xp.

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    73

    Default

    Thanks for the help everyone.

    I didn’t notice either of those epic feats. I’ll take Imp. Martial Arts for sure. Vorpal Strikes depends on if I decide to switch to Wis.

    I didn’t think I’d be able to get UMD high enough to be useful on a pure monk. How many ranks do you need to make it useful? Atremus, the link to your monk only shows your character sheet at level 25 with equipment. What did you do to get UMD high enough? At what point are Jump and Balance high enough to start putting points into UMD instead?

    I was hoping that Stunning Fist would work reasonably well without too much Wis. because of the half character level boost to its DC and Dwarven Tactics. It sounds like that is not the case. I guess that means that Stunning Blow for a non-Str. character is even worse, because it doesn’t have that half character level boost.

    Now I’m more inclined to take either Stunning Fists for Wis.-based or Stunning Blow for Str.-based, but not both, instead taking Improved Sunder for reducing opponents’ Fortitude Save before trying to stun them.

    The wiki says that Stunning Blow doesn’t work on opponents with red or purple names. It doesn’t say that about Stunning Fist. Does Stunning Fist actually work on more opponents?

    Wis.-based is really sounding better. I’m going to reroll now. I’m still going to get Cleave early, so I don’t have to worry about Improved Sunder vs. 2nd Stun until level 6—I only have level 4 vet status.

  7. #7
    Founder & Hero
    2016 DDO Players Council
    Uska's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Moosehead Lake
    Posts
    23,489

    Default

    No stunning fists doesn't work on red or purple either. Not good at posting builds but I have found I prefer Wis monks over str, stunning fist works enough to make it worth while and vorpal strikes is nice to have. I prefer half-elf or human for my monks personally and cant wait to Tr my main again back to monk have decided that I dont want completionist and will just have 3 monk, 2 paladin and 1 ranger past life and just stick with monk will be human and wis based.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  8. #8
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Aegis
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Except.. stunning fist is required (no choice) for Shintao I.
    Doh, thanks for pointing that out.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  9. #9
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    13,966

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Anyway, I've never played a str based monk, never saw the fun in it. That's just me, but w/e.
    STR monks are fine, they just don't seem...well...monk-y enough to me. Leave the raw DPS to the barbs of the world; monks should have more style. Getting to add Vorpal Strikes as a WIS monk is just icing on the cake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asanarama View Post
    I was hoping that Stunning Fist would work reasonably well without too much Wis. because of the half character level boost to its DC and Dwarven Tactics. It sounds like that is not the case. I guess that means that Stunning Blow for a non-Str. character is even worse, because it doesn’t have that half character level boost.
    While that's true, dwarven Tactics and Stunning property will boost S.Blow as well as S.Fist. I like having both so if S.Fist fails, I can try again with S.Blow while S.Fist is still on cooldown, even if my S.Blow DCs are lower.

    But another option would be to drop S.Blow and swap in Imp Sunder; the nice thing about it is the Fortitude debuff always procs even if the target makes its save, so it can help you soften up targets for S.Fist.
    The wiki says that Stunning Blow doesn’t work on opponents with red or purple names. It doesn’t say that about Stunning Fist. Does Stunning Fist actually work on more opponents?
    In general, bosses are immune to all CC effects. OTOH, they are not immune to all debuffs; so here again Imp Sunder can be useful.

  10. #10
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Aegis
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Sorry for multiple posts but I keep getting logged out.

    My monk uses Improved Sunder / Stunning fist to immobilize the monster, then the beat down begins. Stunned mobs take extra damage so landing a stun is a good boost to the monk DPS as well. I can see the fallback on Stunning Blow, but where do you fit it in Feat wise?


    Toughness
    PA
    The 3 TWF feats
    IC Blunt
    Stunning Fist
    Improved Sunder
    IMA
    Vorpal

    Oh and my UMD breakdown:

    7 CHA bonus
    11 skill ranks
    3 UMD item (spare hand)
    1 MOTU mask
    2 Good Luck
    4 GH
    5 Epic Skills

    31 UMD

    If I fail a teleport, I fire off the fire/light/fire finisher for a short buff and off I teleport
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  11. #11
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Asanarama View Post
    ...
    I guess that means that Stunning Blow for a non-Str. Character is even worse, because it doesn’t have that half character level boost.
    ...
    Remember that you get Ku Kan Doh at 18, so you have a second stun coming. Ku Kan Doh is pretty effective with just a CHA item, or a CHA augment in a slot.

    EDIT And yes, drop stunning blow if you are going wis focused. Its tough for a pure monk to get enough str to support stunning blow even on a str build.
    Last edited by Grubbby; 06-12-2013 at 11:01 AM.
    TPICKRELL forum identity still broken, 15 weeks and counting... So yet another throw away Forum identity

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    13,966

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Atremus View Post
    I can see the fallback on Stunning Blow, but where do you fit it in Feat wise?


    Toughness
    PA
    The 3 TWF feats
    IC Blunt
    Stunning Fist
    Improved Sunder
    IMA
    Vorpal
    Every pure monk gets 12 feats (7 base + 3 monk bonus + 2 epic); 13 if human. I count 10 feats in your list, so adding Stunning Blow is one option; taking both Cleaves is another.

  13. #13
    Community Member Atremus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Aegis
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Every pure monk gets 12 feats (7 base + 3 monk bonus + 2 epic); 13 if human. I count 10 feats in your list, so adding Stunning Blow is one option; taking both Cleaves is another.

    Oh true. My HElf has PL Monk and Cleave which I forgot to include.
    Characters: Celemia / Tukson / Thau (Broken link) / Atremus

    “A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll feel worse when he feels better.”

  14. #14
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZTBt7oar9w
    Posts
    226

    Default

    My monks have been woefully unimpressed with VOID IV
    kruemeli of Orien - Leader of the "Merry" Hobbits https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5002220
    It is okay to be "merry": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOOKb-DFZs
    I just Keep quiet and think.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYP8M06A8W0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload