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  1. #1
    DDO Producer
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    Default Monday Morning with Major Mal

    Hey

    Give me your thoughts on the following. Be verbose, but not 'it sucks' I need 'it sucks because of'

    Enhancements

    Guild Decay

    Whatever your pet peeve is.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Community Member Emizand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Hey

    Give me your thoughts on the following. Be verbose, but not 'it sucks' I need 'it sucks because of'

    Enhancements

    Guild Decay

    Whatever your pet peeve is.

    Thanks.


    For me:-

    Enhancements, dont come to the table till you have a full set. I have waited a long time, can wait longer till its complete.

    Guild Decay, just scrap it.

  3. #3
    Community Member starhawk_6699's Avatar
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    Enhancements, I tried the alpha on Lama. I liked the new UI, easier to see the flow of what was needed without scrolling all over the place, still needs some work tho. Unfortunatly thats about all I liked. I spent a long time building my character and it is frustrating to have to redo everything. It might not be so bad if I could have rebuilt it like it was before but with the radical changes I soon realized it would be impossible. I spent many an hour considering which skills to take and even trying different combinations and redoing them, only to find that if this new enhancement system goes thru it will all be wasted time as I will have to go thru the whole process again. I feel that the old system gave me more flexibility than the proposed system. I think that these are probably the top 2 complaints that most people have, the time spent already building their chars only to have to redo from start, and the reduced flexibility of the new build system. I wnoder if it would be feasible to just replace the old UI with the new graphical one without totaly redoing the whole thing. Guild Renown, I am currently in 2 guilds on 2 different worlds, both are small (under 10 members) one of which I am leader. The one that I founded is composed of just family and friends. Although both are slowly progressing, but due to real life concerns we find that sometimes all the work we have done is wiped out because we cannot be on everyday grinding out renown. Its very frustrating to log on the weekend and see that we have regressed because we have jobs, school, families, etc. that perclude us from sometimes playing during the week. Also I feel it unfair that because of Renown decay that eventually both guilds will reach a point where we will only be able to maintain level and be unable to proceed any further. It would be nice to know that eventually we would be able to progress to the point where we can finally get that bigger ship with all the buffs/amenities.Pet Peeve, The "Circle Jerk" phenomenon. I hate it when the mobs decide to endlessly circle at high speed my hire/pet making it difficult, and sometimes near impossible, for me to hit them. It happens every single adventure I have been in lately. Please fix this!EDIT: I ha thi nicely formated into paragraphs but when I submited it somehow it came out as one long wall-o-text. Sorry!
    Last edited by starhawk_6699; 06-10-2013 at 02:30 PM.
    "Some men see things as they are and say why - I dream things that never were and say why not." -- George Bernard Shaw

  4. #4
    Community Member Loraven's Avatar
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    Default thanks 4 askin

    Quote Originally Posted by Emizand View Post
    Enhancements, dont come to the table till you have a full set. I have waited a long time, can wait longer till its complete..
    agree totally

    Guild decay, way tough on smaller guilds

    Pet peeve - fix the broken things before creating new broken things that lovely airship destination choice that stays on has been broken about a year now
    and as a VIP I'm just a LITTLE ticked I've had to pay for the last 2 updates....I already pay all the time if this continues...p2p for me bye bye VIP

  5. #5
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    Things that bug me about the current game as-is:

    1. You're not facing X - Go to Orchard in the area near the Wheep and stand and fight the wraiths. By default when in melee range they and shadows are roughly in your position, but often are at just the backside (flanking bonus). Also, there are plenty of cases where monsters will rapidly orbit the player. For casters, this wastes resources/melee simply time and strikes. Demonstrable by heading to the orchard/wheep area with melee and stand and swing. Count the frequency with which you need to adjust position to attack and hit something.

    2. Following from the Wraith example, I am current in fighter lives for a twf character. Given the change in AI of wraiths and similar monsters to charge up a special attack out of melee range and then move in to proc it, I think all of the anti-twitch/anti-melee kiting code for twf has become ridiculous. The monsters move in ways that cause the melee player to update their position more frequently, which triggers the anti-twitch/anti-kite mechanisms to reset attack chains and start dropping attacks. Funny thing about all of the anti-kiting implementations is that kiting has just been moved to a caster/ranged only thing where melee run after swinging to try to find the right offset from the monster being kited by ranged/casters.

    3. Following the movement example. Fighting with a radiance 2 or equivalent gets hilarious at times. My current case being twf with radiance 2. When monsters get blinded then they start moving more frequently and more irregularly. Through the aforementioned anti-kiting you can stand still swinging and not be able to hit a fidgeting monster until they stop their current movement path. Sometimes they will move like an asterisk where they move one player width in a direction, move back to original position, then repeat in another random direction until their movement order is done. Best way to replicate the frustration: high hit point self healing monster such as a loremaster (GH quest) or drow cleric (SotO). Fight one on one. By all means try to lock them in a corner. When they walk through you that will make things even more fun for you. ^^

    4. Bat Anti-Trap Spray. Run Cabal for One with traps on with a highly geared rogue. Trigger traps via stealth and watch monsters simply walk through them unharmed. Additionally, when you fight them, they will gravitate to the trap areas for tactical advantage due to scaling damage based on adventure difficulty. Removing quid pro quo for monsters in traps will cause massive frustration due to the fact that the flame jet sure hurts the player well enough. Also Bat Anti-Trap Spray removes one way a thinking player can solve a scenario. Flexibility in solving problems is what makes this game shine. I am sure that it can be frustrating from the dev side of the house when an enterprising player figures out a good strategy.

    5. High monster DCs against skills/feats. DCs often require a binary approach to character development. Try tripping your average monster later in game with a reasonably strengthed melee. Rarely happens. From a step back and look at the situation, a character who can lift 28000 lbs cannot unseat a 300 lb monster. At 28000lbs lift you should be able to pick up the monster by the leg and slam it back and forth with ease. The best part being, if the trip is successful you get maybe 1-3 seconds of trip effect.

    6. Bear Traps. Goes back to the reasonably strengthed melee. To begin to break out of a bear trap period, you need a +18 (or at least a 36 strength) iirc. That is borderline requiring rage boost to shorten a 15 second quest disruption in quest tempo. Plus, how do the bear traps reset themselves? (granted they are immune to the above mentioned anti-trap spray)

    7. Things that have made this game shine tend to be thoughtful ideas that do or at least used to work. Vorpals, stat damagers, banishers, etc. were things that rewarded preparation. Those have been systematically removed. However, rewarding a player for coming up with a well thought out solution is the way to keep them coming back. Punish them and the opposite effect comes in to play.

    8. I understand this is used to deliver exposition, but having monsters that remain gold to force a plot element can be incredibly frustrating. Case in point the lizardman from quest 2 in the new quest. Please try to avoid those situations where you should be able to interact but can't because of quest mechanic. Please avoid mechanisms that enforce the "Player, you failed because we made you fail." story mechanic because there is another adage: "You tried and you failed, so the moral of the story is... never try."

    9. Being 2nd to the exposition in the quest you are undertaking is annoying and others have mentioned that. Elminster's bask in my awesomeness, and the Harpers' we are teh awesomesauce bardz rule 4 evar will blunt the player's purpose. Others have mentioned this before. There is even a note in the King's Forest where Elminster says he needs the help of other adventurers because he can't be everywhere at once. Yet based on quests, he is sure able to show up after the work is done and claim credit. A.K.A the Pikeminster references. I am waiting for the Drizzt quest where he cameos and does nothing except look awesome, relate his awesomeness and claim credit for the player's actions. Remove that tactic from quest production and have the groups/factions/people actually show genuine appreciation, then the FR content may be enjoyed by more people. Grand scale Netherese quests in a nutshell: You claim evil scroll pieces and hand them to Harpers. Harpers screw up. You fix harpers' mistake. Harpers pop in with Elminster, steal the scroll and vanish.

    That's all I can think of for now...

  6. #6
    Community Member toaftoaf's Avatar
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    Enhancements ... leave them as is, or at least dont give us that travesty they tried on lama. beacause it KILLED so many builds

    Guild Decay......seems ok could be abit less...because. its too much for some not so active guilds



    Whatever your pet peeve is.... i dont like AwesomiumProcess.exe because it's a pile of kolbold turd. for my game to work good. (on all 3 of my gaming rigs...i have to put it back in my game dir, start the lame launcher, then move the file out of the dir , sence i started doing that ive logged in the first time EVERYTIME even on my laptop. just as long as you guys know we arent too worried about being able to visit your ddo store

    there i vented

  7. #7
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toaftoaf View Post
    Enhancements ... leave them as is, or at least dont give us that travesty they tried on lama. beacause it KILLED so many builds

    Guild Decay......seems ok could be abit less...because. its too much for some not so active guilds



    Whatever your pet peeve is.... i dont like AwesomiumProcess.exe because it's a pile of kolbold turd. for my game to work good. (on all 3 of my gaming rigs...i have to put it back in my game dir, start the lame launcher, then move the file out of the dir , sence i started doing that ive logged in the first time EVERYTIME even on my laptop. just as long as you guys know we arent too worried about being able to visit your ddo store

    there i vented
    while there were many who didnt like them there were many who loved the changes to enhancements like me. sure builds were killed but i also saw so many new ones emerge. Just like the history of any mmo builds come and go as they change stuff. once popular builds die while new ones even better ones emerge from the rubble. So im always game for change. it keeps the game interesting if they do it right.

  8. #8
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    I honestly like the direction enhancements was going but there were certain classes (cleric for example) that were really messed up. There are definitely DPS clerics - casting, melee, and ranged all three - and yet there is no tree available for them. A tree with some toggle options like the left side of the Primal Avatar one would make a lot of sense. Add some boosts in there for casting, melee, and ranged but you have to choose which one you're taking. Have some straight-up improvements to the underlying mechanics (ie crit lines, etc) as well as some thematic offensive stuff (light damage on hits, etc). Pure clerics should have 3 class trees available to them. And offensive tree makes sense both for multi-class builds that want to focus on offense as well as for pure clerics so they can take a third class tree without having to access it through their race.

    I don't like removing things from any class either. Especially when it comes to pure toons. For example, if I wanted to play a pure level 20 paladin I'd be losing quite a bit of devotion as compared to live. Don't take away options from pure builds. I can understand if the enhancement pass messes up certain multi-class builds or makes them less worthwhile. But it should not make pure builds less capable of doing what they currently do. Devotion enhancements on melee hybrids is one example where the enhancement pass would reduce what a pure class can do. I'm sure there are others (cleric I mentioned earlier for example) but please - don't take away things from pure classes. They're already very limited based on the fact that there's little reason to stay pure. The enhancement pass...well, a few of the capstones were convincing but not enough so to have me thinking pure when I started considering builds. And that's ok...but it's not ok to make them even less viable by forcing a splash to do something as simple as healing on a paladin or ranger.

    Guild renown decay...meh. I understand why it's in there. If Turbine took it out I'd be happy. If they don't I understand.

    If I could access my inventory/bank/bags from outside of the game I would be completely floored by I understand that's a huge undertaking. I agree with Veles though...I've got 14 toons, most of them used for bank/storage space, and it can be hard to find what you're looking for. And I don't even have a tenth the stuff as some people I know have.
    Tajawuka 20 Bladeforged Paladin running divine ETR's (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's, 3 martial epl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  9. #9

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    Oh and a quick driveby after reading the responses of others:

    Adding "Search" to the tr cache would be the bee's knees.

  10. #10
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    Oh, agree that Spellcraft is a skill point tax. It's basically a must have, as is heal on a healing character, etc. It's no longer a question of 'do I take this skill or that skill'. Rather it becomes, "how much int do I have to have to fit in the required skills for casting...and then not take any other skills because that burnt all the points.

    Also, I really like the direction with removing most feat requirements from enhancements. I really like build flexibility and balancing feat requirements is extremely tricky and leads to things like Tempest requiring 3 feats by level 6 while other PRE's required none. Enhancements should require a certain class level to open and then just have other enhancements in their tree as pre-req's. Gating enhancements by using feats leads to build inflexibility as well as an emphasis on 2-6 ranger/monk/fighter splashes just to hit feat pre-req's for Enhancements. Most of the feats in the game right now stand on their own - they don't need enhancement gating to make them worthwhile.
    Tajawuka 20 Bladeforged Paladin running divine ETR's (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's, 3 martial epl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  11. #11
    Community Member Kace's Avatar
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    Enhancements: I dislike the current system because it's tortuous to figure out what is available and what is pre-required to get it. I'm looking forward to the future enhancements because they fix that. I'm generally more excited about new build oppurtunities than distressed about old broken builds. I'm a 'build maker' type. I'm not usually a fan of very long requirement trees as gates to the powerful stuff because it feels consticting.

    Guild Decay: Advancing in guild levels was fun when it came out. We looked forward to our new guild swag as we unlocked it. Then we reached the limit of our guild size and play time and stopped progressing. It isn't exciting any more.

    Pet Peeve: As my characters approach the last couple levels before 20 they run out of stuff to do. I generally don't like repetition in quests. Their advancement slows to a painful crawl. They sit unused for months without much to look forward to. No epic people want to play with them. They crawl, gasping over the finish line to 20, and then everything's fun again.

  12. #12
    Community Member Urjak's Avatar
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    Enhancements:

    Please less active abilities! I am able to handle 30 shortcuts (numpad0-9 and strg/alt + numpad0-9) and I already have difficulties fitting all active abilities in there. With the proposed changes I would have to ignore many of them ... simply bc my finger-skills won't allow more (not even talking of memorizing them all so that I can activate 'em all without looking^^). Also: Please put in more flavor ... in the alpha most abilities were either super powerful and thus a must-have or completly useless (wand heightening I'm looking at you) ... make it so that the non-super-powerful abilities one has to choose in order to reach the required points spent in tree limits, bring a wider range of flavor type abilities (so not completly useless, but also not increasing ones primary powers aka AC, dps, spell-damage/DC/SPen ... like skill bonuses, or creative uses of skills - like for example the shadowdancers ability to make a diplomacy check using hide instead of diplomacy ... also please less of those ... "you get some chance that something might happen ... maybe" ... I think I am not alone in this that I want to have control over my character and what he/she can ... those maybe/perhaps/once in a lifetime chances that something might or might not happen, maybe, don't really fit in there. (they also don't feel like D&D) ... perhaps some ideas for cool enhancements could be taken from the "Complete Arcane/Divine/Mage/... D&D 3.5 book series ... they have some really cool ideas ... and those feats could easily be changed into enhancements! ... also making trees available to all classes who meet certain requirements (feats, skills, BAB, alignment) would be more than awesome and make those supposedly prestige enhancement trees feel more like actual prestige classes!
    Oh and before I forget it: Make the trees, especially the racial tree broader! (decrease icon size or whatever to fit it on the screen ...)

    Guild Decay:

    Meh ... I'm running a solo guild ... currently at lvl 47 ... don't have any illusions about sometime reaching the really awesome ranges with +2 shrines and 30 resists ... so doesn't really affect me ... though I like the idea of longer, more difficult and higher level dungeons also giving more renown ... after a 60 minute run, I feel kinda ***** if I get a Heroic Deed as a reward

    Pet Peeve:

    What happened to the forums??? Please make it so I can stay perma-logged in ASAP!!!! Or at least increase the amount of time until one gets logged out ... I now have to click on something in the forums after every second sentence in another tab, or when I finished writing a comment I'm already logged out again O_o ... that really su***!

    General Thoughts:

    Please stop increasing the power curve so quickly ... every time the power level is increased, the old loot looses more or less all of its worth and those quests and especially raids land in the garbage can ... especially if those new shinies are so easy to acquire as now, this leads to an ever faster need of new content! ... there is simply no way any dev-team can hold up with that speed. broden the game a bit ... introduce similarly powerful but just DIFFERENT items for the next few updates, so that we get a broader endgame range again ... atm its kinda sad ... endgame has been pretty much reduced to FoT, CitW, PoP, Madstone and Tor ... thats 5 quests ... well Shroud is also still run regularly ... so lets say 6 ... how long YOU think it needs until ppl are tired of those 6 quests (I on purpose left out HoRB xp farming ... as that obviously tires one very quickly anyhow and is viewed as just a necessary evil by everyone) ... please make for a broader endgame again ... so that we have 5 or 6 raids at least that are run regularly PLUS several quests ... oh and PLEASE encurage grouping again ... endgame is such a soloing in best case shortmanning circus atm ... kinda sad ...

    But all in all I still love this game (else I wouldn't care to write such a long post, would I? ;p) ... just stating the things that concern me most ... oh and before I forget it ... make Cannith Crafting useful again AND:
    WE NEED EPIC SHURIKENS ASAP!!! (Honestly ... after taking the effort to make stuff like 10k stars, Shuriken Expertise and the Alpha - Halfling - Thrower - Line ... we need some epic shuriken ASAP!!!)
    Argonessen (mains):
    Myriellah (Stargazer II), Xryn (Pale Master), Ryaleen (Air Savant), Mayeena (Assassin)
    Leader and founder of the ShadowThieves guild

  13. #13

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    I don't really understand the purpose of renown decay in the new system. Only thing it seems to do is punish guilds with low amount of players. It seems that people don't like to compete against other guilds with guild renown. So removing decay would be a good idea in my opinion. Also I don't really understand why people shouldn’t be able to create their own little guilds and eventually gaining all the bonuses from guilds. It should be harder to gain guild levels for those who want to create very small closed communities because players should be encouraged to socialize in mmo:s but it should still be possible.

    In my opinion tiny guilds gain too low amounts of renown right now so some kind of increase would be great. For example adding renown bonus to guilds that are in the same level long would be nice. Also DDO store could have item that permanently adds renown bonus to single account.

    Also DDO store should have cosmetic and spellcasting reagent bags.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    while there were many who didnt like them there were many who loved the changes to enhancements like me. sure builds were killed but i also saw so many new ones emerge. Just like the history of any mmo builds come and go as they change stuff. once popular builds die while new ones even better ones emerge from the rubble. So im always game for change. it keeps the game interesting if they do it right.
    I completely agree. Everyone, just needs to take a few breaths and calm down. Keep your mind open for new possibilities.

    Personally I love the slew of SLA, who doesn't like pells with Free Meta's and on top of that reduced spell points, awesome! (of course in the current system only Sorc's and Wizzies would be aware of these). The variety and build potentials are much better than what we have now. If the level limits per tier don't change much, I can see some very interesting deep splash builds happening.

    Guild renown decay sucks.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by mortifer_rex View Post
    I Personally I love the slew of SLA, who doesn't like pells with Free Meta's and on top of that reduced spell points, awesome! (of course in the current system only Sorc's and Wizzies would be aware of these). The variety and build potentials are much better than what we have now. If the level limits per tier don't change much, I can see some very interesting deep splash builds happening.
    Sure would like to see divine SLAs

  16. #16
    Hero Vyder's Avatar
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    Guild decay sucks because as a small guild you get to a point where you can't advance.

  17. #17
    Uber Completionist luvirini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    Hey

    Give me your thoughts on the following. Be verbose, but not 'it sucks' I need 'it sucks because of'

    Enhancements

    Guild Decay

    Whatever your pet peeve is.

    Thanks.
    Enchantments: I like the idea, and most of the implementation. On the current implementation I would modify costs of many 2/3/4 cost enchantments that are never worth it and lower required points spent for many low mid level enchantments as at levels 3-6 there are often situations for me where none of the enchantments available do me any good. I have not looked at the new system extensively, just short test on lamannia and read though of the others, but the limited number of trees seems like a pain, other than that it is a huge improvement.

    Guild decay: I think that the idea is good(inactive guilds "get forgotten" eventually), but I would probably raise the level of "no decay". (Further raising maximum levels and giving more high level buffs would be nice, for example 2 hours instead of 1 hour and +50 higher level needed?)

    Pet peeve: Only 3 classes allowed. So many builds of mine would need 1-3 levels of fourth class.. (and few fifth)

  18. #18
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Enhancements : just scrap the Alpha we were shown.
    If you really need/want trees make them with the existing enhancements ( there's an example in the Cleric thread ) and complete the PREs so that all the classes have at least 3 PRE.
    don't remove any existing enhancement, don't modify any existing enhancement ( except maybe merging two enhancements in one eventually ).

    Guild Decay : *shrug* I'm in a large guild that is mostly active, since changes were done we have been steadily climbing while before we were stagnating somewhere around LVL 72ish.

    Pet Peeve of the moment: awesomiumprocess.exe. This CPU and Memory hog has to go, it's the weakest link. Everything worked fine with just the DLL.

    Pet Peeve number 2 : Fix the forum logout !!!!!!
    I don't want to have to relog on the forum every 15 minutes, once a day is the most I am willing to cope with.
    On G-Land : Flavilandile, Blacklock, Yaelle, Millishande, Larilandile, Gildalinde, Tenalafel, and many other...

  19. #19
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    Enhancements: Didn't try them, but read a lot about them, and I'm interested in the possibilities for new builds. But the UI is just so huge! D:

    Pet Peeve: "You are not facing x"

  20. #20
    Community Member GlassJaw's Avatar
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    Mal, thanks so much for taking the time to post lately. Much appreciated.

    My biggest concern is the enhancement pass. I'm a long-time, semi-casual player. I've played since launch so I've seen every change/nerf/revamp/overhaul this game has done from the early Evasion in heavy armor change to this. I recently came back to the game after a hiatus and I'm having a blast again.

    That said, I'm not sure I can suffer through another major system overhaul that forces me to respec all my characters again. I still have a ton of builds to try and content to play but that will make me lose interest very quickly.

    For the enhancement pass, I would like to see:

    1. Improve the UI. The Epic tree is pretty. Use that as a template.
    2. Consolidate or remove obsolete enhancements: all the skill mods, wand DC, etc.
    3. Add more prestige classes. Seems to be that players have been asking for more prestige class options, not being forced into specific trees (which the first preview did).

    In addition, I'm concerned about the new spellcasting skills. There was talk of changes to the Toughness feat and enhancements because they are considered essential by many players. But putting in skills that affect spellcasting is the same. It will be a skill point tax because no one will build a caster without maxing those skills.

    Remove or improve skills that don't get used, don't suddenly make them required and force characters to respec to maintain the same level of ability.

    Thanks again for listening!

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