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  1. #1
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    Default Does it make any sense to try to combine warchanter and thief-acrobat?

    I was just thinking... I have a bunch of toons going (well, started - not very far really, highest at level 11) that try to be sort of self-sufficient at least in addition to helping keep less-skilled players alive in a party, but for some reason my only bard is a warchanter built to Tihocan's spec, so... I could just roll an axesinger and be happy with that, but anyway... I'd "like" something that gets both evasion and trap skills, in addition to bard party buffs and at least a little bit of emergency healing.

    And an unrelated thing sort of got me thinking that a thief-acrobat's "showtime" ability sounds like it'd belong on a bard. Although maybe more a virtuoso than a warchanter, but anyway.

    And, warchanter requires some kind of a weapon specialization anyway - well, quarterstaff is a bludgeon. Looks like there might be a bit of synergy there at least.

    But, I'm not sure which would be better, warchanter 2 or thief-acrobat 2 - and it needs a bunch of feats, I figure 2 levels of fighter might be useful anyway too... or maybe not, a 7/13 split might be a better idea...?

    Let's see... PA, WF bludgeon, toughness, extend, imp crit bludgeon, maybe emp heal, and then what...? Enough str for PA, enough dex for evasion to work, and TA1 gets damage bonuses from that anyway; hopefully enough int to be able to keep at least perform, UMD, disable device, search and spot at least near-maxed; and still hopefully not be helpless in melee either...




    Or am I just being a silly newbie here, again?

    (I'm sure this would be much easier to do after a couple of TRs but as of now I only have a regular f2p starter toon slot available... well, maybe drow too, would that help here?)
    Last edited by mna; 06-08-2013 at 05:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Default

    I'm not a fan of bard builds with only 7 or 8 lvls of bard. Yes, you get lvl 3 buffs like Haste & Displacement and some Inspire Courage is better than none; but you miss out on higher-lvl buffs & Cures and your Courage is kinda weaksauce compared to a "real" bard's.

    But OTOH, I'm also not fond of bard builds which stop before lvl 15, because you miss out on Inspire Heroics; which is nice on its own just for the Dodge bonus but which is also a pre-req for Inspire Excellence. +2 to all stats for the entire party? Yes please! Which means rog 6 / bard 14 (Acro I / WC II) is not my first pick, either.

    That said, I suppose if this is just a flavor build and you don't have the resources for, say, one of my staff builds, it's doable. Let me take a whack at it (HA! ...sorry).
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.16.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Female
    (13 Rogue \ 7 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 252
    Spell Points: 200 
    BAB: 14\14\19\24
    Fortitude: 10
    Reflex: 22
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             12                    13
    Dexterity            18                    27
    Constitution         16                    16
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             10                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
    Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
    Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
    Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
    Enhancement: Halfling Guile II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song III
    Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Improved Balance I
    Enhancement: Improved Balance II
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    Enhancement: Rogue Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
    To be honest, there aren't enough DEX-based staffs to really make going DEX-based a good idea; Nat Gann and Chieftain's Spear are basically it, AFAIK. But the Enhancement overhaul is supposed to make DEX-based Acrobats more viable, so...well, we'll see.

    Haven't figured out what to do with the epic feats, either. Maybe I should rejigger my stats (CON 14 INT 12) so I can squeeze in CE+Imp Feint like my 3 Ring Circus builds? I'm just theory-crafting here; as is so often the case, I'm winging it and pretending I know what I'm doing.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 06-10-2013 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Added link to geoff's blog

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    To be honest, there aren't enough DEX-based staffs to really make going DEX-based a good idea; Nat Gann and Chieftain's Spear are basically it, AFAIK. But the Enhancement overhaul is supposed to make DEX-based Acrobats more viable, so...well, we'll see.
    Right.

    I did mostly think about going str-based in the possible case where I'd try this anyway, but... doesn't look like a particularly useful build except for the flavor that way either.

    I wonder... didn't notice anything called "showtime" on the wiki page for the preview/alpha thief-acrobat enhancements, so if that's right and stays so whenever the new enhancements go live, even the flavor wouldn't be all that much any more.

    (To my mind, it's just wrong that something called "showtime" doesn't provide any bonus to perform...)

  4. #4
    Community Member Viciouspika's Avatar
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    Default My 2 cp

    I made a drow Virtuoso I/ Acrobat II (rogue13/bard7). She was fun to play and was a good soloist, but while there seems to be a symetry between bard and acrobat. It's not that great. The problem I had was once you facinate a mob then swing your staff, you end up waking other mobs. Those mobs ended up killing me on elite lvl quests cause most of your DPS is sneak attack. That being said;

    I changed her to an Assasin II/ Virtuoso I (rogue 13/bard 7) and it was a more powerful toon. Facinate, bluff, kill, rince, and repeat as necessary. For feats(ircc): toughness, sf perform(negotiate), Twf x3, IC: peircing, extend, Maximize. You can Max a ton of skills with both bard and rogue classes. I choose Disable Device, search, spot, bluff, concentrate, UMD, and half skill levels in jump, balance, and open lock. Some in haggle.

    When soloing or in a group that want to coordinate things, I would cast or drink invisiblility and blur run into a group of Mobs. Facinate as many mobs as i could. Those not facinated(which should be only those that roll a 20) take back to group to kill. Then, pick off facinated mobs one by one.

    I have been in groups where i am the only blue bar and this tactic works great if everyone follows it. If they dont you dont have enough wands, scrolls, or mana to group heal. Just let them die. Your number of songs and your ability to regen songs will give you more than enough to last you through to the next shrine.

    My 2 Cp.

  5. #5
    Community Member Viciouspika's Avatar
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    Default oops for some reason it takes for ever to edit an already submitted post.

    Under skills, I forgot to type in Perform under maxed skills.

  6. #6
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    Just my opinion but you would only play a Bard for party support so it doesn't make sense to gimp the Bard with only 7 levels. If you want raw performance tanking/healing/DPS there are lots of better options out there however they can't buff the group like a bard can.

    Warchanter(13) Acrobat(7) looks pretty good. You can get almost all the bardsong utility of being a pure Bard with a 4d6 sneak attack. I would go Half-orc with high strength and use Improved Sunder & Sap for sneak attacks.

  7. #7
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    Sorry I just read your opening post and saw that (like myself) you only have the free to play races and classes available.

    Halfling does look like a good option if you can work the sneak attacks in and with Greater Dragonmark of Healing plus Extra Dragonmark IV enhancement you would get access to 4x Heal spells which you can of course amplify and metamagic.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viciouspika View Post
    Under skills, I forgot to type in Perform under maxed skills.
    With respect to Edit:

    I find it better to right-click Edit and Open in new tab. Faster way to edit a post.


    P.S. It also works for some other things that seem to take forever when you just click on them.
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