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  1. #21
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Don't listen to Scoob.
    He let me die in a EHCITW yesterday.
    Gimp.
    Reroll.
    Nobody can help people who walk off cliffs.
    Die Ara
    Scoobmx Scoobshot Arcscoob Beefscoob : Imperial Assassins : Argonnessen
    My Builds : Abbot Raid Manual : Weapon Damage Modeler : My Trades

  2. #22
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobmx View Post
    Nobody can help people who walk off cliffs.
    Die Ara
    But, but! Those cliffs are out to get me I swear.
    They move! Or something...
    One second I'm walking along perfectly happy, the next I'm falling into the void.

    Also, cliffs aside, That will never happen. Ever.
    Araphina Skycrow - 15Paladin/3Ranger/2Fighter (Life 8/25) 5xRanger, 3xPaladin
    Araphell - Arasin - Arathaes - Arawyn - Aravein
    Guild: Fors Fortis;Guild of Won, & VENOM @ Argo
    "And we learn, as we age; We've learned nothing! And my body still aches."

  3. #23
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    I no longer play my FVS outside of solo, byoh or guild runs because I never made my FVS to be a healer. I don't like healing. No, check that, I have no problem post battle healing or throwing a mass heal but I do not like babysitting people to keep them alive. However, in epic play that's exactly what most PUGs expect a FVS or Cleric to do. Pass.

  4. #24
    Community Member Raoull's Avatar
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    I play a melee FvS on Cannith. We're still around.

    Unfortunately.... I found that while he rocks on EH, and was pretty decent in EE before Gianthold, he really isn't all that up to snuff in EE now. Doable and all, but not what I'd want.

    Some of that is gearing, which I'm working on. Some is that he still hasn't LRed from the days when a Str based made sense for a clonk, whereas now I think he needs to be Wis based since his Stuns need a bit of a boost in GH.

    But, the other big thing, is no Aura. I missed my aura for a while, but with the more SP and the Wings (I do love the wings) I dealt with it. Now.... he just needs a bit more survivability that is difficult to come by in pajamas. I'd much rather be a true clonk now with the Aura giving that bit more. More SP doesn't matter much, as I doubt it even can match what gets saved with Aura and Bursts.

    With Destinies, FvS have it made for the traditional Healbot role, backed up with a touch of light DPS for added punch. Clerics get shafted by Angel having an awesome ability that requires 10 light based spells to charge it up.... or just standing around for 20 seconds as a FvS and letting the archon do it for you. To be even theoretically fair, the Aura should grant counters for the Heal side of that, although the actual ability for that side is so weak it doesn't even matter.

    Clerics, on the other hand, can wade into melee more safely than a FvS. Not only the Aura and Bursts, but also the Heavy Armor proficiency, which actually means something now. And in Sentinel, they get to add the Light the Dark as more regenerating Bursts, speed up their turn regen and buff up their defense so that wading into the battle is less dangerous. Not the most DPS destiny available to them, but lets them keep whacking and healing from the front lines very effectively.

    One of these days (after leveling up another healer to help out when guildies need it), my clonk is TRing back to a cleric for the aura.
    Cannith Server :Vice Sovereign of The Guild of Calamitous Intent

    Kalener (Monk) Renelak (backup band) Raoull (Mr. McStabby) Kaleray (laser heals) Kalrah (xbow rogue)

  5. #25
    Community Member sunseeker's Avatar
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    :Warning Text wall to follow:

    I don't see many Melee FvS on G-land. I have 2 FvS one is a WF melee build, the second is a Half elf ranged build. The melee was fun but it became too tough to keep myself alive, I needed more gear. And I didn't like following health bars through a quest. It was easy to mass heal but my gear meant that I would always have to cast another on myself to get to full. I then got an idea one day while I was at work for a FvS that used a bow to activate the archon and use BB to corral mobs . When I came home I started building a ranger that would TR into a FvS. I didnt have any illusions that I would have AWESOME dps or anything like that I only new it would be fun. I don't do MC builds so it had lots of limitations. It ended up requiring 2 past lives for 36 points so I made them ranger, they were easy. The last life however was VERY tough for me. FvS are very weak in the low levels and so is bow damage without manyshot or AA imbues. plus new issues arose, like quicken+rapid shot and casting a spell. Strange stuff happens when you need a cast a spell during a reload animation. You have to finish reloading before you can begin the casting animation.

    After some testing I came to the conclusion that I built a fun ranged build that had low damage at long distance and moderate damage at shot-medium distance, but I could keep out of range and still do moderate damage. Further testing proved that while this casting/reloading animation lessened at higher levels(faster reloads) it was still present and I would have lower reaction time in heavy combat if I was firing an arrow. Too much fun to just healbot, so I started TR'n for caster/DPS focused past lives (Zen Archery make me wisdom based) and because I didn't have anything better to do.


    I got bored and started looking for more power in past lives or better builds so I TR'd my FvS but after soo much gear and past life hoopla it was tough for me to go back into the same role and slave over Hit Point bars, its BORING!!
    I did my 3rd FvS past life last month after 12 lives it seemed like I had put too much work into it to fit into the role of healbot. "I didn't just TR 12 times to not use this bow." Shes pretty much a Gimp flavor build, not massive DPS, I would say I do around the same damage as a first life dex based AA heroic ranger. Sad part is if I explain my build to people, that Im a ranged toon most of em just see HJEALER. Sometimes it feels like people will easier accept some gimped ranger pally build over a combat focused divine. Actually that's a pretty fair description of my build

    I find myself looking for ways to lower my SP so people wont expect me to heal and its not that I won't heal them its that I don't want to "just" heal. If that what they need and I'm not in the mood I drop, no biggie.
    Last edited by sunseeker; 06-10-2013 at 04:55 AM. Reason: inserted warning

  6. #26
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Formerly had 3 melee FVS.

    - One decided she wanted to be more castery, and is romping through wiz/sorc past lives. Given what they did to DC casting, she may head back to melee FVS next life.
    - One was just passing through - that was a few lives ago.
    - One was fun, but is now a Juggernaut.

    They are great fun, but I do not enjoy raiding as much with them. Small guild, so I pug pretty much every raid - far easier to do your thing on someone not watching health bars.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  7. #27
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    So much fail in this post i have to adress the misconceptions one by one:


    Quote Originally Posted by zeichen-thest View Post
    The problem with the melee build in general is that it isn't a good party build.
    Just plain wrong. .. No thats an understatement, its not just wrong, but the opposite of it. Its an excellent party build.

    A melee Divine (as it counts for Clerics, too) sacrifices DC casting and gives up some melee DPS to be able to not only keep himself alive, but keep the whole party healed. If your build's goal is just keeping yourself alive there are Bard, Ranger, Paladin, Artificer who can do that and bring more buffs/DPS/stuff to work.



    Quote Originally Posted by zeichen-thest View Post
    FVS melee dps isn't even 1/4th of a real melee build.
    78,4% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Thats nearly 2/3!

    Also having experience on both sides of the fence, i'd rate it at around ~80% of a pure melee character's DPS. the gap was noticeably lessened when EDs came out and both can now have the same main DPS source with being in Fury or Dreadnaught.



    Quote Originally Posted by zeichen-thest View Post
    They are good enough for solo play but the problem is when grouping what is the role of each toon in the group.
    DDO doesnt follow the Holy Trinity of MMO combat, aka Tank, Heal, DPS. Thus there are no predefined "Roles" you have to stick to, or fail. Many players with previous other MMO experience fail to realise this, and its implications. Thus untill they understand the DDO mechanics they will aways stay subpar to their potential.



    Quote Originally Posted by zeichen-thest View Post
    Caster fvs with high dc have great implosion, or crowd control as well as great light spell dmg.
    Heroic levels are just a tranistory state, so i talk about levels 20+.
    EN is the new casual, EH is not too difficult and most builds work there. So a fully specced caster FvS can indeed archieve good, but not great CC in there. But its in EE where a build really shows its true strengh. And currently there the CC option for a not 12 caster past lives caster is ... bad.

    Independent of that light damage is always just a pittance, a thing to do when nothing else is currently in need of attention so you can feel that you also contributed to dealing damage. But calling it "great" is hyperbole, plain and simple. Its a tiny fraction of the damage that is dealt in melee or by arcane damage casters.



    Quote Originally Posted by zeichen-thest View Post
    I always find it amusing when I see a totally gimp build and the player thinks that it is the best in the world.
    I always find it amusing when i see a player that sees a few failcharacters at work, whos fail often lies behind the keyboard, because they were simply copypasta'ed from the forums, or build by players who heared that a certain build concept and then cobbeled their own version of it together without actual knowledge of its required playstyle.

    This player then decrees that the whole build concept is inherenty a fail. Especially when the concept actually requires a certain amount of general playerskill and the ability to keep your attention on two or three things at once. These are the kinds of builds that shine in the hands of a good player, and tend to make people impressed, but tend to suck when even a mediocre palyer recreates it by copying it from the forums, but lacking the experience of having capped its 3 or 4 predecessor-versions.

    Same old, same old:
    "A Rogues only job is to do the traps and then not die."
    "Rogues can't do DPS!"
    "All bards can do is sing and then be useless!"
    "Melee divines do crappy DPS and dont heal anyone else!"
    Last edited by Noctus; 06-10-2013 at 08:28 AM.
    Erzskalde (Warchanter) / Erzmarschall (melee FvS) / Erzsoldat (waiting for TR-time) / Erzschmied (ranged Artificer)

    AOK - From Argonnessen

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctus View Post
    Just plain wrong. .. No thats an understatement, its not just wrong, but the opposite of it. Its an excellent party build.
    Worst possible build past level 10 or so. The game is just so easy you can get away with it. Divine melee has pathetic DPS, it's utterly stupid to be spending your time doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctus View Post
    DDO doesnt follow the Holy Trinity of MMO combat, aka Tank, Heal, DPS.
    It does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctus View Post
    Thus there are no predefined "Roles" you have to stick to, or fail.
    Try running something beyond casual. Let an EE Lord of Blades play with some of the DPS and see how well that goes. Even that quest is easy enough you don't need an optimal tank, but it is easier if you have a tank to hold it, DPS to get it down faster and healers so everyone doesn't die.

  9. #29
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobmx View Post
    I play a melee FVS that's more like half to 3/4 the dps of a full retard melee and have received praise for what I contribute to the party, so either you're exaggerating, or the skill and concentration required to play this build these days is beyond most players.
    You're probably the exception and not the rule.

    Come on, most of these build have always been terrible.

  10. #30
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    Try running something beyond casual. Let an EE Lord of Blades play with some of the DPS and see how well that goes. Even that quest is easy enough you don't need an optimal tank, but it is easier if you have a tank to hold it, DPS to get it down faster and healers so everyone doesn't die.

    DPS/Tank/Hjeals is needed for a small part of the game, much of which most never even play.

  11. #31
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Got a joke for you . . .

    What do you call a FVS with a 55 Necor/Evocation DC in EE?





    wait for it . . .





    A healbot!

    Might as well melee to do something else as very little content requires a healer's 100% attention. I went for an 18/2 Clonk with a high stunning-fist DC. Sure his own personal DPS is crappy but another stunner is always a good thing.

    When I get to that 2% of the game that requires all my attention I stop hitting things and hjeal.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    Worst possible build past level 10 or so. The game is just so easy you can get away with it. Divine melee has pathetic DPS, it's utterly stupid to be spending your time doing it.
    A melee based hybrid FVS was one of the first builds to solo the forgotten realms EE chain. It may not be the top build, maybe it isn't even one of the current top builds. But to claim it is the worst possible build at any point... is not a defensible statement.

  13. #33
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I see a lot of mention of "healbot" or I don't "heal" being mentioned in threads like this.

    Many of these responses come from personal experiences and are tainted by individual beliefs and goals for a character.

    1. All Characters/Players are responsible for their own well being
    2. A primary healing type character is capable at all levels to help a group last longer - However, it does not make up for playing stupid
    3. A Good melee Divine is doing more than Melee damage at any point in time
    4. A Good Primary Healer knows when it is time to drop back
    5. The old adage "An ounce of prevention is greater than a pound of cure" is true - Want to save SP "Properly Buff your group" **
    6. A Good Primary Healer learns to identify their teams strengths and weaknesses and works to that end (Using the right amount of healing needed instead of using unnecessary resources)

    Playing Divines since '06, never once been a healbot, always willing to buff and have been very successful in assisting groups for success at all difficulty levels including EE Quests and Raids.


    ** Properly buff your group does not mean giving them every buff, it means making sure they have the ones they need

  14. #34
    Community Member backandforth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Got a joke for you . . .

    What do you call a FVS with a 55 Necor/Evocation DC in EE?
    Answer: Leader of the kill count.

  15. #35
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by backandforth View Post
    Answer: Leader of the kill count.
    In Epic Casual sure.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by backandforth View Post
    Answer: Leader of the kill count.
    If he's soloing, maybe.

  17. #37
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilII View Post
    If he's soloing, maybe.
    /win

  18. #38
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    Lots of "I" and "me" in this thread; not much "we" and "us".

    If you're soloing, do whatever you want. But if you're in a party, your only priority should be ensuring that the party completes the quest successfully, and with any hope, has fun doing it.

    Last night I was in a two-man group doing The Pit. The other guy was a very experienced player who knew the quest inside-out; I did not. He was on a paladin chugging SF pots, and I was on an artificer. I helped kill mobs when we found them, but I spent at least as much time throwing healing pots at his feet. And I was happy to do it.

    Last life I did epics on my paladin where I did more healing than killing, because that's what made sense in that party.

    The party dynamic is one of the great strengths of this game. It's too bad so many people only care about maximizing their own character's capabilities.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ancient View Post
    A melee based hybrid FVS was one of the first builds to solo the forgotten realms EE chain. It may not be the top build, maybe it isn't even one of the current top builds. But to claim it is the worst possible build at any point... is not a defensible statement.
    You know well that he was/is completionist with the best gear, tens of past lives and probably one of the best players.
    Pre destinies, most of these builds were just abysmal dps. And it's an option now only because destinies matter much more than class itself, and DC casting is pretty much dead in GH/u16.
    It's like juggernaut, it works in the hands of great player with the best gear and many past lives ( and such player could possibly make anything seems easy ), yet 90% you meet in game are just terrible ( no self sufficient,no tactics, nothing ) because they just aren't "ready or experienced enough " to play such toon yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by backandforth View Post
    Answer: Leader of the kill count.
    Let us know how 55 works for you in u16/GH.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctus View Post
    DDO doesnt follow the Holy Trinity of MMO combat, aka Tank, Heal, DPS. Thus there are no predefined "Roles" you have to stick to, or fail. Many players with previous other MMO experience fail to realise this, and its implications. Thus untill they understand the DDO mechanics they will aways stay subpar to their potential.
    Role probably isn't the right word. But, melee fvs and really divines in general don't want to heal so they're spot is better filled by a self-sufficient toon that does more dps. Divines have basically whined themselves into a corner. Everyone now builds self sufficient toons because divines didn't want to heal. The problem is, in endgame, they don't bring enough to the table anymore, even if they're healbots. While it seems some people have problems filling lfms and will probably take a divine, others of us don't have this problem and can be selective. Save for maybe two raids in the game, divines are the bottom of the pack. We can all take care of ourselves, out dps divines and out cc them.

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