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  1. #1
    Community Member Xeno5k's Avatar
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    Default Are melee FVS a thing of the past?

    Lately on Cannith I've noticed that there's hardly any melee fvs, in fact I'm pretty sure my friend and I are the only Melee FVS around. Thing is I can't really see why that is, I can out dps caster fvs and I'm far more SP efficient than caster FVS, yet caster and healbot FVS are all thats around now. Why is that?
    Melee FVS: Solarien
    Earth Savant: Keyros
    Pale Master: Kayros

  2. #2
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    Personally, I think that you are totally mistaken. Most FVS are no longer DC casting, they are usually either light dot tank build, or melee. Both builds will also have healing capabilities.

    The problem with the melee build in general is that it isn't a good party build. FVS melee dps isn't even 1/4th of a real melee build. They are good enough for solo play but the problem is when grouping what is the role of each toon in the group. Caster fvs with high dc have great implosion, or crowd control as well as great light spell dmg.

    I always find it amusing when I see a totally gimp build and the player thinks that it is the best in the world.

  3. #3
    Community Member Xeno5k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeichen-thest View Post
    Personally, I think that you are totally mistaken. Most FVS are no longer DC casting, they are usually either light dot tank build, or melee. Both builds will also have healing capabilities.

    The problem with the melee build in general is that it isn't a good party build. FVS melee dps isn't even 1/4th of a real melee build. They are good enough for solo play but the problem is when grouping what is the role of each toon in the group. Caster fvs with high dc have great implosion, or crowd control as well as great light spell dmg.

    I always find it amusing when I see a totally gimp build and the player thinks that it is the best in the world.
    What server are you seeing this on, because on Cannith I'm having an extremely hard time finding other melee FVS?

    Oh and about that 1/4 thing, yeah I kinda have to agree with you most melee FVS I used to run into didn't even take cleave much less other nice feats like Overwhelming critical. Though that still really doesn't explain where they all went, are they hibernating like bears do or something?
    Melee FVS: Solarien
    Earth Savant: Keyros
    Pale Master: Kayros

  4. #4
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    I have three melee fvs (though I only run two regularly). I'm on G-land.

    But I will have to agree, I don't see as many melee fvs around as I did a while ago. Whether this is coincidence, or whatever, I don't know.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  5. #5
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeno5k View Post
    Why is that?
    Melee fvs was last month.

    This months melee flavor is the Juggernot.

    Stay tuned for next months flavor...


    Edit: no, it's not a typo...
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow - btw, do you have change for 10 million population?

  6. #6
    Community Member Ironclans_evil_twin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    I have three melee fvs (though I only run two regularly). I'm on G-land.

    But I will have to agree, I don't see as many melee fvs around as I did a while ago. Whether this is coincidence, or whatever, I don't know.
    I specced out of melee long ago, just wasn't synergizing with healing responsibilities. That said I have a battlecleric that tries hard to multitask, and on a good night might even get a compliment for being high in the kill count while no one died.

    I also have a melee soul of sorts in the planner, though its really just fighter/FvS recreation of a Pali, with more DPS feats and higher strength.

    Healing from the pile is satisfying when you are "on" but things outside your control can lead to hot tempers quick. Also no matter how good you are at it 90% of the time, one slip or missed stun save and people are telling you to stand back and babysitt their health bars. which is why so many groups sit with healer icons for long periods of time. Heal botting is boring for a lot of people stairing at small red bars with poor visual feedback, selection highlight is hard to see, no attention getter flashing when someone really low, feedback for too far is a tiny text blurb, other times you have no clue why the heal didn't hit... meh the whole thing is yawn inducing.

    I have a ranged Elf FvS AA that plays great, but according to the forum theory crafting experts she's Gimp and not capable of contributing in EE, despite plenty of successful EE completions on her where she both kept the party from wiping and also managed middle of the pack kills. (and no Shiradi yet).

    I think being a melee FvS just requires an amount of multitasking and willingness to accept responsibility when tripped, or stunned and deal with the "get in the kitchen and make me a sammich! er I mean stay back and heal bot" that most people are not comfortable with. The alternative of announcing you do not heal, or won't main heal, every time you join a group is just painfully untenable.
    Last edited by Ironclans_evil_twin; 06-08-2013 at 07:46 AM.

  7. #7
    Community Member Xeno5k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post

    I think being a melee FvS just requires an amount of multitasking and willingness to accept responsibility when tripped, or stunned and deal with the "get in the kitchen and make me a sammich! er I mean stay back and heal bot" that most people are not comfortable with. The alternative of announcing you do not heal, or won't main heal, every time you join a group is just painfully untenable.
    You know you might have a point it is hard to get good it, now that I think about it it took me a while to get good at it too. However, one thing I have found quite convenient is that when you're a melee FVS dealing with zergers is easier.
    Melee FVS: Solarien
    Earth Savant: Keyros
    Pale Master: Kayros

  8. #8
    Community Member Nightmanis's Avatar
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    They all TRed into Juggs. Kinda sad really, when they were a FVS they were more able to compliment a party than the "I was built to solo and only solo" mentality of the Juggernauts. There's one that I'm friends with, he's going to TR into a Jugg as well. I told him not to, but he insists on it because "It has trap skills, etc etc etc" that all the Juggs use to justify them. I don't even really trap that much anymore on my rogue, so I'm not finding that as a valid excuse anymore :/

  9. #9
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Personally, I got tired of people being idiots and expecting me to cover for their stupidity, among other things related to having a FvS symbol, which is why I TRed my melee FvS (first to Juggernaut, then on finding out that wasn't for me into a Paladin).

    Another cause of melee FvS being rarer is that several of the people who used to enjoy melee FvS wound up irritated with apparent game directions for divines, causing them to TR out of them (as I originally did) or potentially even quit playing.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  10. #10
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Well lets see for my case:

    * I had a generalist Cleric then TR -->FvS with melee and DC-casting for ages. But then the strain got too big (with level raises and then divine Epic Destinies absolutly not suited to this style of play) to realise halfway decent DPS and halfway decent DCs, so he retired. So instead of healing raids re now holds my level 1-12 twink gear for TRing.

    * Then i had a CC & nuke FvS after the generalist retired. This is nice but when i get into difficult territory the DC casting, while still somewhat efficient doesnt cut it enough any more, as it competes with healing for my limited SPs, so i most of the time had to fall back into a pure healbot with the occasional DoT thrown in when at the boss endfight and a good group. Healbotting is too boring for me, so i TRed him into this and that and now he is nearly forgotten in the middle of a TR as my Craftbot.

    * Also i (still) have a melee FvS which dumped offensive casting compeltly and just melees and heals. Still working as good as ever, although playing is ultra high attention time. Sometimes i get to hear some saying of "Healbot me! how do you dare to wield a weapon!?!? Your fault i died split up from the rest of the party." This doesnt bother me in the slightest. Guess who'd better be self-sufficent because he wont get any hjealz from me any more (10% is lost anyway ). When i post groups they come, because lo and behold a healer that pugs!
    But .. but when i lot at the Enhancement Alpha and see that the devs decided that taking away my Scimitar +damage enhancements and the other stuff that was going on in the Devine Trees pushing hard into the Nannybot role and while at least acknowloding offensive casting divines, there is nothing for melee-oriented players of healers. Well they wont make a "proper Hjealer/Boo-Boo-Pretector" out of my last divine. I'll just TR into one of the new builds that will come from the enhancemnt pass (too much raidloot and tomes and endgame gear to use as a mule) and thus Pugs will be looking even longer till the fill the last spot. And 1 less player that has a character to switch too when a raid needs some Healing. I can do healbotting when needed for some EEs or some parts of a raid, but as a primary playstile? Hell no!
    Erzskalde (Warchanter) / Erzmarschall (melee FvS) / Erzsoldat (waiting for TR-time) / Erzschmied (ranged Artificer)

    AOK - From Argonnessen

  11. #11
    Community Member Standal's Avatar
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    I think it's probably true that many people who would have played a melee FVS are now playing Juggs. I built a melee FVS for the first life of my current main. I picked melee FVS because it would solo well and still be able to raid heal. The Jugg does everything that made the FVS a good soloist better, plus it has evasion, trap skills, and ranged capability. If I want to heal something, I have my borked up offensive caster FVS and cleric to do that.

  12. #12
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Standal View Post
    I think it's probably true that many people who would have played a melee FVS are now playing Juggs. I built a melee FVS for the first life of my current main. I picked melee FVS because it would solo well and still be able to raid heal. The Jugg does everything that made the FVS a good soloist better, plus it has evasion, trap skills, and ranged capability. If I want to heal something, I have my borked up offensive caster FVS and cleric to do that.
    I'm playing one now and I love the frantic spothealing + cleaving

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeichen-thest View Post
    The problem with the melee build in general is that it isn't a good party build. FVS melee dps isn't even 1/4th of a real melee build. They are good enough for solo play but the problem is when grouping what is the role of each toon in the group. Caster fvs with high dc have great implosion, or crowd control as well as great light spell dmg.
    Glad to see someone else say this. In the past I've grouped with FVS who were eager to tell the group they "weren't healers", except for themselves, of course. Instead they ran around swinging a two-hander -- poorly. It's great to be in a group as a barbarian and having to hang back from the fighting because you can't heal yourself to stay alive if you jump in, while a perfectly good healer does what you were designed to do half as well.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeichen-thest View Post
    Personally, I think that you are totally mistaken. Most FVS are no longer DC casting, they are usually either light dot tank build, or melee. Both builds will also have healing capabilities.
    What exactly are these "tank" builds tanking ?
    The problem with the melee build in general is that it isn't a good party build. FVS melee dps isn't even 1/4th of a real melee build.
    That's just not true, there are melee divines that put half the melees to shame.
    They are good enough for solo play but the problem is when grouping what is the role of each toon in the group.
    Role ? You have either bad group which requires constant attention in order to have any chance of completion or self sufficient toons which don't require much hjealing ( or not at all ) and then you damn better kill some stuff.
    Wraps/melee.
    Caster fvs with high dc have great implosion, or crowd control as well as great light spell dmg.
    You mean 55 - 57 implo ( which is damn hard to get, FEW get it that high ) with many lives that doesn't even work half the time because of ******** high fort
    saves ? And "great" light damage ? Please
    tl;dr
    heroics : casting divine is among the fastest zergers wrecking heroics, melee is optional flavour
    epic n/h: who cares, 9clr/9wiz/2 rogue is viable
    EE : DC casting is at bad point, "light " damage is nothing compared to other casters, that leaves wraps+stun, thf

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Role ? You have either bad group which requires constant attention in order to have any chance of completion or self sufficient toons which don't require much hjealing ( or not at all ) and then you damn better kill some stuff.
    False dichotomy alert.

    You know, some people actually enjoy being in groups. I solo sometimes, but grouping is more fun IF the group is actually cooperating and working together. The groups that are not fun are the ones where one or two people who really should be soloing are in the group solely to show off how fast they can run through the quest and kill everything while making snide comments about how uber they are to everyone else.

  16. #16
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    I like playing my melee fvs. I get to smash things while keeping the party alive. Yes, it takes some amount of multitasking to do this, but I find it generally more satisfying than just staying in the back and doing nothing but watching bars go up and down.
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  17. #17
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    Being massively sub-optimal can be tiring.

  18. #18
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    Did 2 lives as a melee FVS and liked it a lot. My favorite story about him illustrates why I liked it, and also way this setup is detested by the rest of the population.
    It was on a Shroud hard. Last part. Cleric and i were healing and we ran out of spell points and pots and everyone started dying. Well i whipped out the Greatsword and with Torc and great saves had enough sp to keep myself healed and eventually killed him. Half the group was like Yay thanks for saving the run, the other half was like: F you for letting us die.

  19. #19
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeichen-thest View Post
    Personally, I think that you are totally mistaken. Most FVS are no longer DC casting, they are usually either light dot tank build, or melee. Both builds will also have healing capabilities.

    The problem with the melee build in general is that it isn't a good party build. FVS melee dps isn't even 1/4th of a real melee build. They are good enough for solo play but the problem is when grouping what is the role of each toon in the group. Caster fvs with high dc have great implosion, or crowd control as well as great light spell dmg.

    I always find it amusing when I see a totally gimp build and the player thinks that it is the best in the world.
    I play a melee FVS that's more like half to 3/4 the dps of a full ****** melee and have received praise for what I contribute to the party, so either you're exaggerating, or the skill and concentration required to play this build these days is beyond most players.
    Scoobmx Scoobshot Arcscoob Beefscoob : Imperial Assassins : Argonnessen
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  20. #20
    Community Member TheLegendOfAra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobmx View Post
    I play a melee FVS that's more like half to 3/4 the dps of a full ****** melee and have received praise for what I contribute to the party, so either you're exaggerating, or the skill and concentration required to play this build these days is beyond most players.
    Don't listen to Scoob.
    He let me die in a EHCITW yesterday.
    Gimp.
    Reroll.
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