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  1. #81
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    That's how spellpower works on alpha. You no longer get a single line that gives you 80 or 100 spell power. Now you get 1 spell power per point spent in a tree.

    Paladins only get spell power from the defender of siberys tree, 1 point per point they spend in that one tree. Tell me, how do you see a hotd/kotc paladin getting the equivalent of their 80 devotion on live in the alpha system?
    In short, you don't; you wait and see what they do to adjust point costs and values.

    The reason I used the "60 points spent in tree" as an example of a reading fail (in the post you quoted) was because the poster who freaked out about it didn't correctly read the post he was freaking out about.

    For some one who seems to be so knowlagable about the enhancement alpha, how is it that you missed the fact that you can't spend 60 points in any single tree?

    How is that everyone going bonkers here has missed out on the dev posts regarding the intentionally over inflated point costs in the alpha pass? This was never intended to be a preview of what is supposed to hit live in terms of point costs, it was intended to be a test of specific parts of the system.

    They have openly (and repeatedly) stated that they intentionally forced players into specific restrictions for testing purposes.

    Once again for those who missed it:
    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    The screws were tightened with the last deployment on purpose to focus/railroad people into single trees...we of course know that a large % of players multi-class, and that is in the design of the system...as you can check out soon.
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    There is already some pretty big redesigns to the UI and some of the classes…like Clerics.
    And that's just the most recent. There are older ones related to their decisions about making the initial preview extra stringent, however the forums are stronger than my Fu.

    Yes, change is coming.
    Yes, it might be a horrible bad bad thing.
    It might be a blessing in disguise.
    There is simply not a sufficient amount of information available to make that determination yet; especially when your basing it off of an intentional misrepresentation of the final product.

    To use the dreaded car analogy:

    A manufacturer offers a prototype to test for, say, acceleration and gas miliage. But all you have to offer for your review of the prototype is "the rides uncomfortable, I don't like the handling and the color sucks!"

    Who freaking cares? None of that was intended to be desirable on this test model anyway!

    Show just a little patients. Wait until they release their "final preview" and then decided what is bad and to what degree. Everything until then is speculation at best.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  2. #82
    Staggering LightBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    In short, you don't; you wait and see what they do to adjust point costs and values.



    They have openly (and repeatedly) stated that they intentionally forced players into specific restrictions for testing purposes.



    To use the dreaded car analogy:

    A manufacturer offers a prototype to test for, say, acceleration and gas miliage. But all you have to offer for your review of the prototype is "the rides uncomfortable, I don't like the handling and the color sucks!"

    Who freaking cares? None of that was intended to be desirable on this test model anyway!

    Show just a little patients. Wait until they release their "final preview" and then decided what is bad and to what degree. Everything until then is speculation at best.
    Personally I've totally missed that bit of information and yes I too welcome the change and will adopt to it as I'm still TR-ing.

    What ticks me (off or on or something) is that testing is all about complexity and what they did is, to use the car analogy, tried to test the shock absorbers, send people onto the highway in a single type of car let people believe that in the near future they no longer can order any options for their car and then ask people to pay attention to what their sight is.

    To say it differently, if they are this far along in the development process it should not be about the shock absorbers any more, it should be about the sitting experience in different circumstances or even better everything a driver undergoes while on a road trip.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    A manufacturer offers a prototype to test for, say, acceleration and gas miliage. But all you have to offer for your review of the prototype is "the rides uncomfortable, I don't like the handling and the color sucks!"

    Who freaking cares? None of that was intended to be desirable on this test model anyway!

    Show just a little patients. Wait until they release their "final preview" and then decided what is bad and to what degree. Everything until then is speculation at best.
    This. I agree with your whole post, and I particularly liked your car analogy!

  4. #84
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech View Post
    "Faith is believing something you know ain't true." -Mark Twain
    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Faith is belief in something without evidence. Having faith in god or a doctor to cure cancer is foolish as the evidence will give you an odds spread on if you'll beat it or if it will kill you. For instance
    When a scientist gathers evidence to create a theory (thesis, whatever), there is still a bridge that needs to be made between what he suspects is true, and that concept reaching an acceptable level of proof to be accepted as true. The scientist takes it on faith that his assumptions are correct, and further bolsters that through testing. In the end, however, because the scientist cannot know that his thesis is true or not due to missing pieces of evidence, he has to take what he assumes (or believes) to progress towards testing.

    Conversely, if you work under the supposition that something is true ONLY when there is a preponderance of evidence to support that truth, you’d need to have all of the evidence acquired before a theory is presented. Sound absurd? Of course – it doesn’t fit with the way 99.99999999% of human think.

    Likewise, an assumption is an act of faith – faith that you are correct in your perceptions.

    The human brain conceives of things, thoughts, and ideas then takes action to cement those concepts into a definition of “truth.” It is how we think. It is how knowledge is progressed. Your collective concept of “faith,” is both backward, and primitive.

    Secondly, I’m a cancer survivor. Even a 95% chance of survival is still a tenuous leap of faith that you won’t be that 5% who is f-ed. So please, don’t lecture me on spreads and odds. I know more about this subject then you assume, thanks.

  5. #85
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Call me contrarian, but I don't agree with all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over this.

    First, it's an alpha. They're experimenting. This isn't set in stone, and it's not going to be foisted on us without a lot more work.
    Not to be a jerk here, but let's reveiw some of the "flawless" work done with revisions in the past:

    1) The Forums. 'Nuff said.
    2) MotU. Wasn't it Caught in the Web that was down for God knows how long due to issues?
    3) The physics engine? People getting caught on the other side of the looking glass...almost literally? As well as mobs...loot...GMs...

    I dunno. From what I'm reading it doesn't seem all that well thought out. It sounds like they are dumbing down enhancements to make it more accessable to newer players, and killing some of the things that makes he game unique.

    I don't like the fact that elemental lies are going the way of the Dodo bird. You had options with the old enhancements, and specilization. Now, well, it doesn't matter if you go cold or acid...power is power regardless. having those specializations gave the player experience far more complexity, in my opinion.

  6. #86
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    To use the dreaded car analogy:

    A manufacturer offers a prototype to test for, say, acceleration and gas miliage. But all you have to offer for your review of the prototype is "the rides uncomfortable, I don't like the handling and the color sucks!"

    Who freaking cares? None of that was intended to be desirable on this test model anyway!
    So, if no one pipes up to say that the new engine is causing problems with the ride and the handling, it can go into production without any of these issues being addressed, and then the car is a total frickin; lemon that no one wants to buy.

    And yes, I've actually been in those types of situations where someone releases sonething for testing, only looks at the comments that relate SPECIFICALLY to the performance of their piece of code, and ignore all other comments thet consider "ancillary" (sp:?). it ends up that the thing they released had major impacts on other portions of the product, and caused HUGE problems with it overall. But the thing they "fixed" worked like a charm.

    Focus can be both a blessing and a curse.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    For some one who seems to be so knowlagable about the enhancement alpha, how is it that you missed the fact that you can't spend 60 points in any single tree?
    Because you can spend over 70 points in the Sacred Defender tree, which is the tree that gives paladins 1 devotion for each point spent. This is the actual tree I was talking about. How is it that you don't know this?

    Intentional misrepresentation indeed.

    EDIT: And in the Arcane Archer tree -- my best guess where ranger devotion will be added -- you can spend over 80 points. So I really have no clue what you're talking about.

    However, your misinformed "gotcha!" brings up a secondary point. If they "loosen the screws" by reducing the cost of individual enhancements such that the total amount of AP spent in a single tree caps at something low, like 50-60 points, and that tree is where you get your spellpower based on points spent, that is a serious problem not just for spell power in a vacuum but also in build customization. You'll see builds like "take everything in this one tree, then the remaining points on..." That would be a horrible state of affairs for build diversity.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elation View Post
    it is the same life cycle for all games, they hit a peak then decline some faster than others there may be peaks and valleys on the way.
    Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

    As I recall, you decided you wanted to discuss this point by misrepresenting what I said. If you intentionally misrepresent other people's opinions, you should expect that they might clarify what you decided to distort.

    The only interesting feature of this topic is who can actually discern changes in game trends on a timely basis, and who cannot. Thanks for pointing out my historical record on this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elation View Post
    then seriously leave already
    And here we have the obligatory "just leave", which seems to be a standard feature of any discussion on these forums when someone is confronted with information they are emotionally incapable of handling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elation View Post
    trolling
    You do realize we are engaged in this discussion because you decided to troll someone else in this thread, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elation View Post
    Oh wait here comes another response comparing me to a child.
    There really is no need, when people can just read what you post.

  9. #89
    Community Member Elation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

    As I recall, you decided you wanted to discuss this point by misrepresenting what I said. If you intentionally misrepresent other people's opinions, you should expect that they might clarify what you decided to distort.

    The only interesting feature of this topic is who can actually discern changes in game trends on a timely basis, and who cannot. Thanks for pointing out my historical record on this topic.



    And here we have the obligatory "just leave", which seems to be a standard feature of any discussion on these forums when someone is confronted with information they are emotionally incapable of handling.



    You do realize we are engaged in this discussion because you decided to troll someone else in this thread, right?



    There really is no need, when people can just read what you post.

    You are now a psychologist well done... What emotional fact are you presenting other then the game will eventually die. Wow bllanket statement their for you.

    Who did I troll?

    Yes the just leave statement does come up often mainly because it is supposed to be a gamevsomethingvthat people use for entertainment and fun, you have spent the last year predicting the death of the game and nagging people for having a different opinion then yours. I think you may have even been the one to say this game would be lucky to survive another year. Yet here you are on the forums with the exact same sentiment.

    Having stated that yes maybe its time you move on to something else that you can enjoy, since it is obvious you do not like this game. Hey maybe your one of those people that enjoys doing and entertaining themselves with things they do not enjoy so they can complain.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    To use the dreaded car analogy:

    A manufacturer offers a prototype to test for, say, acceleration and gas miliage. But all you have to offer for your review of the prototype is "the rides uncomfortable, I don't like the handling and the color sucks!"

    Who freaking cares? None of that was intended to be desirable on this test model anyway!

    Show just a little patients. Wait until they release their "final preview" and then decided what is bad and to what degree. Everything until then is speculation at best.
    Don't use analogies, they never work or translate here.

    Cars with Accel are not made to sit in for road trips so they omit luxuries like seating and space. The handling is major part of the car. They won't release a prototype that goes vroom vroom but freaking can't steer.

    The test model is close to what they want to release or they'd use a different test model.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I don't like the fact that elemental lies are going the way of the Dodo bird. You had options with the old enhancements, and specilization. Now, well, it doesn't matter if you go cold or acid...power is power regardless. having those specializations gave the player experience far more complexity, in my opinion.
    When "power is power regardless" through the enhancements, specialization comes from determining how to apply that power, for example through spell selection.
    I would still like to see... Something that tests character versatility and player adaptability rather than character focus strength and quest knowledge.
    I play the quests for the content of the quests not just as an XP/min merry-go-round.
    Actual play experience is worth infinitely more than theorycrafting...

  12. #92
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Many pallies on live are already HotD because of the healing amp. So getting this is maintaining, not gaining. (Also, the three current endgame raid bosses are an Aberration, a Giant, and an Undead. Only one of those takes additional damage from a pally prestige making HotD arguably the best choice for dps.)
    It just seems clumsy to me..... putting the devotion all into only one class tree? Great for the DOS paladins and SS/Zirt bards but for the others not so much is this really needed to be implemented this way for balance?

    Will the same type of thing be true for the prestige classes of the the other classes? One gets the spell power/devotion line, as points spent in tree? It seems a bit needlessly restrictive is all im saying,

    And for the record I hope my concerns are proven groundless and the enhancement pass is a resounding success, and the epic TR and everything else............ im not one of those frothing at the mouth hoping for the game to die just so I can say I told you so.... im sure there are some of those around.... but it all seems a bit silly that some people will lump everyone who expresses a little concern or says anything slightly negative into that group.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 06-12-2013 at 09:02 PM.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbyx View Post
    It was no argument as i haven't tested anything and have little knowledge of the enhancement pass other than what other players who do test have told me.

    This was simply my opinion based on my game experience and opinions passed from other people who are not generally given to make wild, baseless forecasts of doom....but if what these people say goes ahead, every single one has said they will stop playing/paying for the game...and when most of them are devoted DDO "fanbois", that scares me for the future of the game.

    I found this thread,, and am wondering how many die hard vets like me have quit , not only subscribing,, but playing the game. I post in hopes of pressuring Turbine into fixing this enhancement pass,, I find it extremely limiting and killing the customization of the game. Oh,, and most my friends are gone when I log on to say hi ;(. Anyone still out there watching this,,,,,, enhancement pass destruction?

  14. #94
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daangerousda View Post
    I found this thread,, and am wondering how many die hard vets like me have quit , not only subscribing,, but playing the game. I post in hopes of pressuring Turbine into fixing this enhancement pass,, I find it extremely limiting and killing the customization of the game. Oh,, and most my friends are gone when I log on to say hi ;(. Anyone still out there watching this,,,,,, enhancement pass destruction?

    RE the part in bold: if anything there is ten times as much customization as there was before.

  15. #95
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daangerousda View Post
    I found this thread,, and am wondering how many die hard vets like me have quit , not only subscribing,, but playing the game. I post in hopes of pressuring Turbine into fixing this enhancement pass,, I find it extremely limiting and killing the customization of the game. Oh,, and most my friends are gone when I log on to say hi ;(. Anyone still out there watching this,,,,,, enhancement pass destruction?
    yawn

    I know quite a few people that have left since u19, the ep was the reason behind none of them leaving.

  16. #96
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daangerousda View Post
    I found this thread,, and am wondering how many die hard vets like me have quit , not only subscribing,, but playing the game. I post in hopes of pressuring Turbine into fixing this enhancement pass,, I find it extremely limiting and killing the customization of the game. Oh,, and most my friends are gone when I log on to say hi ;(. Anyone still out there watching this,,,,,, enhancement pass destruction?
    If anything, I'm seeing a number of people coming back to the game who quit before (myself included), thanks to the new enhancements.

    I also think they're better than the old system. But I can understand the so-called "die-hard vets" who are probably actually just angry that all their builds became nigh irrelevant overnight, and don't want to learn the new system. We got tons of new prestiges, prestige mixing options and such, so saying it's killed customization could not be farther from the truth.

  17. #97
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daangerousda View Post
    I found this thread,, and am wondering how many die hard vets like me have quit , not only subscribing,, but playing the game. I post in hopes of pressuring Turbine into fixing this enhancement pass,, I find it extremely limiting and killing the customization of the game. Oh,, and most my friends are gone when I log on to say hi ;(. Anyone still out there watching this,,,,,, enhancement pass destruction?
    If you're done with DDO because you can't accept that your precious build was changed (Woe, Alas! In our game?) maybe you should just... go.

    Every build is an update or two away from becoming irrelevant, broken or getting buffed. That's just part of DDO. If you honestly don't won't get over it it, please, here's the door, consider using it.
    No, I'm not friendly, but this is absurd. I get it. Having learnt about sorc enhancements, it does suck for you. But at the end of the day, refusing to adapt and whining constantly benefits nobody, especially yourself.

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