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  1. #61
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    It cracks me up to see someone believe that they need more than 3 years to understand a game simple enough to be played by children.
    Since were sharing observations, it often amuses me that my children (both teenagers) demonstrate clear headed thinking and use logical arguments rather than personal attacks to resolve differences of opinion more often than many of the supposed adults who play this game and post in these forums.
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

  2. #62
    Community Member Elation's Avatar
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    Default Sorry Germ

    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    It cracks me up to see someone believe that they need more than 3 years to understand a game simple enough to be played by children.
    It cracks me up that your still here.. Sorry to say Germ there is not really a game out that takes years to understand. Do not worry I am not going to get into a debate here since you have been forcasting Doom for so long there is nothing that will change your opinion.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elation View Post
    Sorry to say Germ there is not really a game out that takes years to understand.
    True enough, which is hardly a surprise to me, since I was laughing at your obsession with other people's start dates. Who do you think you are kidding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elation View Post
    Do not worry I am not going to get into a debate here since you have been forcasting Doom for so long there is nothing that will change your opinion.
    Doom, as used on these forums, is a child's word. I would never forecast doom.

    Last year, just about this time, when it became clear how badly Turbine was about to err with MotU, I did indeed state that the game was dying. Nothing over the past year has convinced me that call was wrong, as we have seen a steady decline in the game ever since. At the time, it was a statement that generated a great deal of controversy. Now, as we look at the forums, it has increasingly become the prevailing view.

    Some people are ahead of the curve in recognizing change. Some people are at the mid point of the curve. Some people lag far behind. I expect that you will catch up, eventually.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elation View Post
    Thats because you were not here long enough to ever experience an Alpha, So how about we try this again this is an alpha as they stated in- complete and not fully functioning to its fullest extent. Since i have participated in alpha before which obviously you have not there is quite a difference. The reason they released an alpha is because they realize how wide sweeping this change is, You may as well call it DDO2 since essentially it will feel almost like a new game. Oh and that being said by someone who has been around since well before 2010.

    Sorry for that last part it cracks me up to see people post about their length of play time, been around since early 2010 cracks me up....
    Okay I see where you are coming from, it looks as though I may have gotten my terms mixed up. What I actually intended to say with the post you quoted, was that there is no difference between TESTING and LIVE.

    Now that we have that semantics hiccup out of the way, if you think there is going to be any significant difference between what we see on Lammania and what gets realease to live, you are hopelessly naive. By invoking my join date, I was demonstrating the timeframe in which I've had to draw my conclusions.

    In 3 years of playing this game, EVERY update has been released to live in more or less the same state as it was released on Lammania, with all the bugs intact and player feedback ignored. My conclusion is that Lammania, bug reporting forms and QA Kobolds merely exist for industry legal reasons.

    On a side note, I applied for and was accepted into BETA testing for DDO in 2005.
    Last edited by RightToRemainStupid; 06-09-2013 at 06:41 PM.

  5. #65
    Community Member Elation's Avatar
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    Default Oh germ

    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    True enough, which is hardly a surprise to me, since I was laughing at your obsession with other people's start dates. Who do you think you are kidding?



    Doom, as used on these forums, is a child's word. I would never forecast doom.

    Last year, just about this time, when it became clear how badly Turbine was about to err with MotU, I did indeed state that the game was dying. Nothing over the past year has convinced me that call was wrong, as we have seen a steady decline in the game ever since. At the time, it was a statement that generated a great deal of controversy. Now, as we look at the forums, it has increasingly become the prevailing view.

    Some people are ahead of the curve in recognizing change. Some people are at the mid point of the curve. Some people lag far behind. I expect that you will catch up, eventually.
    I remember these disussions in which you let everyone know you are their intellectual superior. The point is for you when ever someone disagrees with you in your mind it is because they are just not intelligent enough to understand. If you want to argue about the slow death of a game then go head it is the same life cycle for all games, they hit a peak then decline some faster than others there may be peaks and valleys on the way.

    As far as you being ahead of the curve eh whatever then seriously leave already what are you still doing trolling this game that you find on its way out for the last year. Oh wait here comes another response comparing me to a child. Seriously superiority complex?
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  6. #66
    Community Member die's Avatar
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    From what I'm hearing is every one want's too be the super hero, well sorry too be the one too tell you but Dnd " Dungeons and Dragons" was built too be a team sport . where players come together and bring there strengths too make a effective team. But since ive been playing ddo every one wants too be a one man army and if another class gets a buff then every other class cry's . im not sick of DDO... Im sick OF you
    Kahzadoom~Xzr~Irondoom~Doomlord~XvKing DoomHammer~
    Xoriat Born~Doompriest~Doom~DoomTusk~Legion of Doom~Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by die View Post
    From what I'm hearing is every one want's too be the super hero, well sorry too be the one too tell you but Dnd " Dungeons and Dragons" was built too be a team sport . where players come together and bring there strengths too make a effective team. But since ive been playing ddo every one wants too be a one man army and if another class gets a buff then every other class cry's . im not sick of DDO... Im sick OF you
    While D&D might be about teamwork, DDO is about making money for shareholders. If you're ever in doubt as to why a decision is being made by Turbine/WB, apply that rule and you will never be too far off the mark, it's really that simple.
    Last edited by RightToRemainStupid; 06-09-2013 at 11:51 PM.

  8. #68
    Community Member Elation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    Okay I see where you are coming from, it looks as though I may have gotten my terms mixed up. What I actually intended to say with the post you quoted, was that there is no difference between TESTING and LIVE.

    Now that we have that semantics hiccup out of the way, if you think there is going to be any significant difference between what we see on Lammania and what gets realease to live, you are hopelessly naive. By invoking my join date, I was demonstrating the timeframe in which I've had to draw my conclusions.

    In 3 years of playing this game, EVERY update has been released to live in more or less the same state as it was released on Lammania, with all the bugs intact and player feedback ignored. My conclusion is that Lammania, bug reporting forms and QA Kobolds merely exist for industry legal reasons.

    On a side note, I applied for and was accepted into BETA testing for DDO in 2005.
    I undrstand where your coming from i really do for the most part almost everything on lamania seems to go live but i think they may be treating this specific round of testing differently. I am remaining cautiously optimistic because being a pessimist does no good...
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elation View Post
    I undrstand where your coming from i really do for the most part almost everything on lamania seems to go live but i think they may be treating this specific round of testing differently. I am remaining cautiously optimistic because being a pessimist does no good...
    I prefer to be a realist, that way you only ever have to deal with the facts and you are less likely to be disappointed.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    Okay I see where you are coming from, it looks as though I may have gotten my terms mixed up. What I actually intended to say with the post you quoted, was that there is no difference between TESTING and LIVE. .
    We may not agree on how to enjoy the game, but we agree on how Turbine thinks. Not much reason to have faith in "it's just Alpha pass and it will change." Change. Like, totally? Because that isn't what Turbine wants to do or they would NOT have rolled out that Alpha. It would have been different. A little change isn't enough to add more with their current E-Pass.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Actually, not it isn't. Faith is based on an estimation that a specific action will happen based on a specific set of conditions.

    You can faith that God will cure your cancer. Likewise, you can have faith that the doctor will know the proper treatment to cure your cancer. In the end, regardless of who does it, there is a chance that you will be cured, and a chance that you will not. Nothing is certain. Faith is based on what a person deems is the most likely outcome.

    It is highly rational.
    "Regardless of who does it" (cures the cancer)???

    hahahahahahaha!

    Doctors cure cancer, or they fail to, not magical beings.

  12. #72
    Community Member Elation's Avatar
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    Default uhm

    Quote Originally Posted by RightToRemainStupid View Post
    I prefer to be a realist, that way you only ever have to deal with the facts and you are less likely to be disappointed.
    Being a realist as you call it with this game in mind and your feelings of it, means you live in a state or continual disappointment.
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  13. #73
    Community Member Elation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    "Regardless of who does it" (cures the cancer)???

    hahahahahahaha!

    Doctors cure cancer, or they fail to, not magical beings.
    lol doctors offer a diagnosis, and offer possible treatment with a percentage based luck chance the treatment will work as they intend.
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  14. #74
    Community Member NaturalHazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Well, my melees take a massive hit in the enhancement pass since they lose their devotion lines. I get the message loud and clear: stop healing yourself, silly melee, and only run quests when you have a proper healbot to tend your boo-boos.

    Thanks, but no thanks.
    This.....^^^^^^ it really sucks for me......... melee bard........ melee paladin was nice healing off the blue bar and not needing a jhealz meh heal bot. I guess they want to sell more Repair casting Blade Forged paladins? No thanks..... i would just stick to arti but I didnt want to have both melee be arti's just one.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    I'd like to see people have more reason to play classes like paladin and bard and less reason to put monk levels on everything, as just one example. And yes, casters need a good solid nerfing IMO.
    I do play pally and bards and I like mine how they are. granted they could definately do with a boost but......... I liked the extra dps from blitz and tree form.... blitz for clearing trash and I can switch out a ed to tank stuff on my paladin or often just stay in my dps ED and still tank stuff. What I see is a big nerf to my self healing which really puts me off....... not to mention other things.......more reason to play paladin and bards? The enhancement pass seems to push me away from the classes more than anything.
    Last edited by NaturalHazard; 06-10-2013 at 01:28 AM.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmanis View Post
    Some of these complaints are becoming ignorant.
    There is definitely ignorance.

    Woah woah wait. Where in God's name are you getting that it will cost 60 points to get Devotion?
    Because that's how spell power works on alpha. There are no spellpower lines anymore; you now get 1 spell point per point spent in a tree. For paladins, they get 1 devotion per point spent in the defender of siberys tree.

    Yeah when this spellpower change goes live, my Paladin will drop 1-2 str and put it into INT to get more Devotion and spellcraft. Since he's a bladeforged his self healing will actually increase, since I'm 99% sure he doesn't have a repair power line. 1 point of damage vs better self healing, umm yeah I'm going with self healing.
    Paladins have no use for spellcraft:

    Heal gives you 1 point of devotion and 1 point of nullification per skill point you have
    Spellcraft gives you 1 point of combustion, glaciation, corrosion, magnetism, radiance and impulse per skill point
    Perform gives you 1 point of sonic spellpower per skill point
    Repair gives you 1 point of repair per skill point

    For boosting devotion with skill points, all you get is heal.

    I don't mind the 3 gate style they've got, nor do I mind the "Points spent in tree" setup. Could they get rid of it? Potentially yes but then you risk having a supremely lopsided power curve. Oh I've got 30 points into Tempest for those bonuses? Well now I've got enough points to take the Kensai Capstone. Oh you're a wizard with a rogue splash? I DEMAND TO TAKE ASSASSINATE!
    The kensai capstone requires 20 fighter levels. Assassinate requires 18 levels of rogue. On alpha.

    The examples you give simply have no relevance because they aren't even remotely a part of the alpha preview we saw.

    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    when I see the obvious reading fails (I'll have to spend 60 points in a single tree to get devotion!)
    That's how spellpower works on alpha. You no longer get a single line that gives you 80 or 100 spell power. Now you get 1 spell power per point spent in a tree.

    Paladins only get spell power from the defender of siberys tree, 1 point per point they spend in that one tree. Tell me, how do you see a hotd/kotc paladin getting the equivalent of their 80 devotion on live in the alpha system?

  16. #76
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    It isn't all negative:
    - Some classes get their missing prestige enhancements finally or removed ones back again.
    - We get more points to spend.

    It does raises an eyebrow:
    - Loss of freedom as it gets harder to multiclass (very big issue!)
    - Things get more expensive point wise so having more points to spend is nullified.
    - A totally wrong mix-up of class levels and character levels.
    - School training (magic feats) vs skill training, wondering what this means for an Arti or a rogue wand/scroll spell swinger.

    One, two! One, two! and through and through. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head. He went galumphing back.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    Some people are ahead of the curve in recognizing change. Some people are at the mid point of the curve. Some people lag far behind. I expect that you will catch up, eventually.
    And some people seem to be so desperate to be right that they almost want to see the game die just so they can post "TOLD YOU SO" on the forums.

    You might want to watch this. I'm sure you'll be proved right one day, could be 20 years from now ...

  18. #78
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    T

    I do play pally and bards and I like mine how they are...What I see is a big nerf to my self healing which really puts me off....
    It would only take a minor adjustment to put healing spell power into more of the prestige lines, so I'm not at all worried that this wont be improved, but for a pally under the alpha system, I don't see how it wouldn't come out ahead on self healing even if the system isn't altered. You can realistically get +20% healing amp on a pally tank that wasn't previously available to pally tanks by dipping into whatever the fused KOTC/Hunter line is called, and a full +30% on a dps pally. This is going to more than cover whatever is lost in healing spell power.

    Bards get healing spell power for every point spent in the new Spellsinger tree and a pure Spellsinger gets the Heal spell as a capstone, so I'm not worried about Spellsinger Bards losing any healing ability. Warchanters, however, need to be improved in the new system. They aren't even worth rolling now, and they certainly wont be worth rolling in the update if left as is. The very minor increases in damage their songs give do not make up for all of the abilities they lose.

    As a person with a Spellsinger Bard and Pally in his top 5 character rotation, if the update went to press as is, I would be very happy with the changes.
    Last edited by FlaviusMaximus; 06-10-2013 at 05:31 AM.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    for a pally under the alpha system, I don't see how it wouldn't come out ahead on self healing even if the system isn't altered. You can realistically get +20% healing amp on a pally tank that wasn't previously available to pally tanks by dipping into whatever the fused KOTC/Hunter line is called, and a full +30% on a dps pally.
    Many pallies on live are already HotD because of the healing amp. So getting this is maintaining, not gaining. (Also, the three current endgame raid bosses are an Aberration, a Giant, and an Undead. Only one of those takes additional damage from a pally prestige making HotD arguably the best choice for dps.)

  20. #80
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    Default A couple of thoughts.

    I'm new enough (oh, wait is it really that long?) .. Well, I still feel like a newbie often enough to say that the current Enhancement system is an unfriendly mess. Presumably it was foist on us because it evolved from the D&D paper game, where I would hope it seemed a bit more logical. (Sorry, I never played D&D)

    If you finally understood it's quirks and intricacies, I can see why you might resist change, but frankly if the current system was proposed new, right now, there would be howls of protest. If the game is going to keep new players, it needs to be different.

    Secondly, the enhancements have a huge influence on Feats, Class levels and overall planning of our builds. I see post after post of people comparing effects on their current builds, and of course most of the time there will be a loss of effectiveness. The current builds were designed with the current system in mind. Applying a different system means losing that synergy.

    On the other hand, I have played with a few new builds on paper, setting classes and feats to suit the proposed enhancements, and I can see some fun possibilities. The trick is to start from scratch. But when it goes live, an existing character might require a full TR to work well, not just a free enhancement pass, and who knows if that will happen.

    This is not just a revamp, not a nerf or an enhancement. Just as E.D.s completely changed how we planned and played our characters, this will change the game again, but for all levels. On the whole I like a new challenge so I await the new game with cautious interest.
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