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  1. #1
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Default enhancement pass

    I just started looking at the new enhancements. Also read about the new Spellcraft skill (it increases spell power but is an INT based class skill!!!!!????). So, are Sorcs going to be totally nerfed or what? You'll only be able to effectively cast for one elemental spell type and all the others will suck. Not only that but they get 1 less CHA and 2 less spell pen under the new Sorc enhancements?

    Plus, with increased level cap to 28 we'll be fighting level 30 monsters using spells with 5/10/15 maximum caster level unless something is changed on that front (except for a few MCL bonus levels to the chosen element). Where do I sign up?

    Am I wrong on all of this? I've been slowly losing interest in DDO (currently a VIP but not sure for how much longer).

  2. #2
    Community Member Xeno5k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    I just started looking at the new enhancements. Also read about the new Spellcraft skill (it increases spell power but is an INT based class skill!!!!!????). So, are Sorcs going to be totally nerfed or what? You'll only be able to effectively cast for one elemental spell type and all the others will suck. Not only that but they get 1 less CHA and 2 less spell pen under the new Sorc enhancements?

    Plus, with increased level cap to 28 we'll be fighting level 30 monsters using spells with 5/10/15 maximum caster level unless something is changed on that front (except for a few MCL bonus levels to the chosen element). Where do I sign up?

    Am I wrong on all of this? I've been slowly losing interest in DDO (currently a VIP but not sure for how much longer).
    No you're not wrong so far sorcs are getting a major nerf and so are FVS. Wizards are getting a huge buff and so are the melee classes.
    Melee FVS: Solarien
    Earth Savant: Keyros
    Pale Master: Kayros

  3. #3
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    People were not leaving the game fast enough...the enhancement pass is Turbines effort to REALY push people away from DDO.

    Seriously...only an idiot would think this is a good idea...every tester i have talked to says this will be the straw that broke the camels back....but we should all be used to half finished, broken and borked work from Turbine by now..no surprise really.

  4. #4
    Community Member Dreppo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeno5k View Post
    No you're not wrong so far sorcs are getting a major nerf and so are FVS. Wizards are getting a huge buff and so are the melee classes.
    What huge buffs are melee classes getting, broadly speaking? I think a few are getting buffed (ranger and rogue, and dex-based melee in general), a few are staying about the same (barbarian, monk, pally except DoS), and a few are getting nerfed (fighter, DoS pally, warchanter bard). I can't think of any general changes that will affect all melee in the way that spellcraft will affect all casters.

    Maybe you just meant melee are getting "proxy buffed", because some casters are getting nerfed.

    In any case I think it's too early to say exactly which classes and builds are getting buffed and which are getting nerfed, because the changes are too much in flux. Everybody needs to remember that what we've see so far is only a first preview and it is incomplete.

    In the end I really don't expect the pecking order to change that much. Casters will still be on top, and melee will still be on bottom. If anything, the difference between the two extremes will be narrowed, similar to what EDs did. But don't you think that's a good thing?

  5. #5
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbyx View Post
    People were not leaving the game fast enough...the enhancement pass is Turbines effort to REALY push people away from DDO.

    Seriously...only an idiot would think this is a good idea...every tester i have talked to says this will be the straw that broke the camels back....but we should all be used to half finished, broken and borked work from Turbine by now..no surprise really.
    This is a very specific and persuasive argument.

    /sarcasm off

  6. #6
    Community Member Hathorian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    What huge buffs are melee classes getting, broadly speaking? I think a few are getting buffed (ranger and rogue, and dex-based melee in general), a few are staying about the same (barbarian, monk, pally except DoS), and a few are getting nerfed (fighter, DoS pally, warchanter bard). I can't think of any general changes that will affect all melee in the way that spellcraft will affect all casters.

    Maybe you just meant melee are getting "proxy buffed", because some casters are getting nerfed.

    In any case I think it's too early to say exactly which classes and builds are getting buffed and which are getting nerfed, because the changes are too much in flux. Everybody needs to remember that what we've see so far is only a first preview and it is incomplete.

    In the end I really don't expect the pecking order to change that much. Casters will still be on top, and melee will still be on bottom. If anything, the difference between the two extremes will be narrowed, similar to what EDs did. But don't you think that's a good thing?
    I have to disagree about melees being on the bottom. Melees are extremely dominant at lower levels and EDs have also made them dominant in Epic Elite quests. Have you ever grouped with someone in tree form or using master's blitz? Casters don't have the DCs or spells with anything close to decent caster levels in high level EE quests.

  7. #7
    Community Member Qhualor's Avatar
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    the only difference that made casters more dominant than melees was that casters got a big boost awhile back where they were doing insanely high damage. I remember 2-3k+ damage was huge when melees could only dream about it. EDs have put melees more in line with that now, but still fall a little behind if compared to each properly. that's the thing though. melees catch up with EDs.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreppo View Post
    What huge buffs are melee classes getting, broadly speaking? I think a few are getting buffed (ranger and rogue, and dex-based melee in general), a few are staying about the same (barbarian, monk, pally except DoS), and a few are getting nerfed (fighter, DoS pally, warchanter bard). I can't think of any general changes that will affect all melee in the way that spellcraft will affect all casters.

    Maybe you just meant melee are getting "proxy buffed", because some casters are getting nerfed.

    In any case I think it's too early to say exactly which classes and builds are getting buffed and which are getting nerfed, because the changes are too much in flux. Everybody needs to remember that what we've see so far is only a first preview and it is incomplete.

    In the end I really don't expect the pecking order to change that much. Casters will still be on top, and melee will still be on bottom. If anything, the difference between the two extremes will be narrowed, similar to what EDs did. But don't you think that's a good thing?
    Melees got buffed because most versions requires similar stats and lose little by multiclassing, so most abilities from other melee lines will work well and offer a lot of extra power and some synergistic combos. Pure melees gained a bit too, but multiclass melee will shine.

    Casterwise the crit multiplier nerf is devastating, for certain builds its death. I dont see int based spellcraft as a huge deal tho, not hard to put an int rune in a slot or two and be only a few points behind a wizard, some sorc may no longer consider int a dump stat anymore, basically, 2 less con(from 16 to 18) for +6 int will likely become prevailent.

    Pecking order? Agreed, but not due to damage. Casters are simply more versaitile, can fight from a distance, can cc better/easier(even if they need to use dcless cc like sleetstorm), way better buffs etc etc, morr options is power.

  9. #9
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    We've only seen an early alpha and the new system has lots of potential.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Hirosue's Avatar
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    It is hard to see or understand the Logic behind this enhancement pass. Then add in Turbines appalling history of releasing bugged broken content with no fixes and we have possibly an Extinction Level Event for DDO .

    Fanbois please note the bugged and missing content in the latest so called pay for expansion and all the bugs and errors in the last 4 + updates.

    Making core changes to how any MMO functions’ this far into a MMos life cycle is only going to have a negative impact of player numbers. Players don’t like massive changes in MMOs.

    If you change the game i.e. the features that make them want to log in pay/play the game they quit. They go find a game that has the features that they enjoy.

    The enhancement pass shows a complete lack up understanding at Turbine HQ about what DDO players want from the game in particular and what MMo players in general expect from MMOs.

    Perhaps turbine could do some market research or put some surveys out that aren’t designed to give them the answers that they want to hear.

    The enhancement pass is not going to attract new players to DDO.

    Old players may well return to check out the changes but they won’t stay as the pass is essentially going to break every current and old build in the game. Not forgetting some of the major nerfs included . If you go back to an MMO after a break to find that all your character builds are broken are you really going to devote time to relearning the new system?

    For a game that you already gave up on? Highly unlikely.

    Breaking or changing all my character builds and how they function in the DDO world/game isn’t going to make me and i suspect many others to want to log on. Turbine seem to be ignorant of or unwilling to consider this important fact.
    Last edited by Hirosue; 06-08-2013 at 12:19 AM.
    "Player testers have done an excelent job and I really do appreciate the testing done by the players that report the issues which then get ignored ......."

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlaviusMaximus View Post
    This is a very specific and persuasive argument.

    /sarcasm off

    It was no argument as i haven't tested anything and have little knowledge of the enhancement pass other than what other players who do test have told me.

    This was simply my opinion based on my game experience and opinions passed from other people who are not generally given to make wild, baseless forecasts of doom....but if what these people say goes ahead, every single one has said they will stop playing/paying for the game...and when most of them are devoted DDO "fanbois", that scares me for the future of the game.

  12. #12
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ddodoesitagain View Post
    are you really that stupid? or did you just forget the /sarcasm tag?
    No I'm that rational. Before insulting people show a little patience and maybe some faith in Turbine.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    There is almost 1000 issues/suggestions/ideas reported with the Enhancement revamp in the past 6 months. Designers are taking this revamp very seriously, and all the concerns that the player base has voiced has been talked about in meetings, in the trenches and lunch tables for over a year. We know about the successes and failures of other companies doing what we are thinking here.
    The screws were tightened with the last deployment on purpose to focus/railroad people into single trees...we of course know that a large % of players multi-class, and that is in the design of the system...as you can check out soon.
    It is my hope that most of the functionality bugs will be addressed before we go out for the second peek...and a month is a good ammount of time to react, considering how everything else is going for the xpack at this point. I have total faith in the system designers that are working on the enhancements...both came from my team once upon a time and I have a nose for talent.
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathorian View Post
    I just started looking at the new enhancements. Also read about the new Spellcraft skill (it increases spell power but is an INT based class skill!!!!!????). So, are Sorcs going to be totally nerfed or what? You'll only be able to effectively cast for one elemental spell type and all the others will suck. Not only that but they get 1 less CHA and 2 less spell pen under the new Sorc enhancements?

    Plus, with increased level cap to 28 we'll be fighting level 30 monsters using spells with 5/10/15 maximum caster level unless something is changed on that front (except for a few MCL bonus levels to the chosen element). Where do I sign up?

    Am I wrong on all of this? I've been slowly losing interest in DDO (currently a VIP but not sure for how much longer).
    Sorcs do sort of take a kick in the teeth in a couple of ways, but you are wrong about effectively less CHA. They can take CHA in multiple trees and had it added to the capstone for an increase the available CHA in the enhancements.

    It's obviously the weekend and time for forum drama attempts?

    I would wait for the next preview coming up shortly and see what changes they did make before getting too carried away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    a powerful ally able to play in any role that the group needs
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  14. #14
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satyriasys View Post
    No I'm that rational. Before insulting people show a little patience and maybe some faith in Turbine.
    Faith is never ever rational, at it's core it is an irrational action.

  15. #15
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeno5k View Post
    No you're not wrong so far sorcs are getting a major nerf and so are FVS. Wizards are getting a huge buff and so are the melee classes.
    Woot!


    Uh...I mean...er...OUTRAGE!!!!

  16. #16
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Faith is never ever rational, at it's core it is an irrational action.
    Actually, not it isn't. Faith is based on an estimation that a specific action will happen based on a specific set of conditions.

    You can faith that God will cure your cancer. Likewise, you can have faith that the doctor will know the proper treatment to cure your cancer. In the end, regardless of who does it, there is a chance that you will be cured, and a chance that you will not. Nothing is certain. Faith is based on what a person deems is the most likely outcome.

    It is highly rational.

  17. #17
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    "Faith is believing something you know ain't true." -Mark Twain

  18. #18
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Actually, not it isn't. Faith is based on an estimation that a specific action will happen based on a specific set of conditions.

    You can faith that God will cure your cancer. Likewise, you can have faith that the doctor will know the proper treatment to cure your cancer. In the end, regardless of who does it, there is a chance that you will be cured, and a chance that you will not. Nothing is certain. Faith is based on what a person deems is the most likely outcome.

    It is highly rational.
    Faith is belief in something without evidence. Having faith in god or a doctor to cure cancer is foolish as the evidence will give you an odds spread on if you'll beat it or if it will kill you. For instance
    the median stage 4 non-small cell lung cancer life expectancy (the time at which 50% of patients are alive and 50% have passed away) is only around 8 months. The 5-year survival rate, that is the percent of people who are expected to be alive 5 years after a diagnosis of stage 4 lung cancer is sadly less than 10%.
    lungcancer.about.com/od/whatislungcancer/f/stage4lifeexpectancy.htm

  19. #19

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    Well, my melees take a massive hit in the enhancement pass since they lose their devotion lines. I get the message loud and clear: stop healing yourself, silly melee, and only run quests when you have a proper healbot to tend your boo-boos.

    Thanks, but no thanks.

    My wizard also takes a hit. He no longer gets to choose which elements to focus on. Silly me! Now he gets all elements, but of course they're all watered down compared to what I have on live in acid, cold and electric. Joy. As for spellcraft, my wizard is a max-int build (of course) and he uses all his skill points with none to spare. So I'll have to sacrifice skills I currently have and actually want in order to make up the spell power I lost as a way to compensate for now getting spell power to sonic, fire, repair and force that I do not want. Great.

    My cleric loses spell power every which way, but I think even the fanbois agree that clerics are getting the shaft in the enhancement pass.

  20. #20
    Community Member PermaBanned's Avatar
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    I wonder... Out of all the people crying doom over the enhancement pass - especially those freaking over it's current (1st) iteration, how many paid attention to the original dev commentary? (Paraphrasing... I forget who said it) "We intentionally set the screws tight so that as we adjusted towards appropriate power levels, it would be "buffing" rather than "nerfing.""

    You see, they knew that whatever form their system took upon the initial preview, there would have to be adjustments and alterations. (stating the obvious, I know) So rather than giving people an initial preview that let them build "god mode," and tone it down to appropriate levels, they gave an initial preview that limited them to "gimp mode" so they can tone it up to appropriate levels. It's actually kind of a smart approach, IMO.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I certainly have my doubts. From content that was broken upon release, to getting stuck in walls to this aggravating new forum; Turbine has certainly earned a measure of cynicism from it's players. But what I have is only doubts, not omfg this is gonna bork the game, and ruin everything, and-and it'll be like knowing both the question and it's answer, and-and-and... Dooooooom!1!1!11!!!!!!1 I mean come on, it's a bit early for all of that, isn't it?

    If you really believe this game is toast with the pass, why are you still here? Just so you can hang on long enough to say "I told you so!" as the servers get shut down after the mass exodus?
    Now excuse me while I wander off to arm myself with Grilled Cheese Sandwiches and hunker down behind my Armored Beer Refrigerator, while I have the UFO's take control of the Congresional Wives with the help of the International Cocaine Smugglers and the Evil Geniuses for a Better Tomorrow

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