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  1. #1
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    Default Where is this bus headed?

    I know that all of these points have been brought up before, so I am not really expecting any kind of response to them. But I guess that I am just wondering if other fans are as frustrated with the current state of things as I am.

    When Update 1 was looming, at the end of the 'vast and mysterious', players were given a pretty clear idea of what the plan was. Even if they did not like it, they were informed about the goals that Turbine was working towards with DDO. There was much whining and gnashing of teeth, a great deal of it about nothing at all while some of it has since proven true.

    The design direction has changed rather drastically over the years since then. Many of the people working on DDO have changed as well. I think it is fair to say that the road that DDO is on right now doesn't really resemble the one laid out when DDO was first preparing to make it's impression on the F2P MMO scene. That is all fine and dandy, it is after all your game, but.... don't we, the players, deserve to know where this road leads?

    For an extremely long time DDO's end game was divided between Raid trains, Epic quests that provided quite a bit more challenge than the current batch of content does relative to the abilities that players had, and the TR cycle. There were people who enjoyed the social aspect of DDO's 'raid lite' style of content, goofing around with friends as they played the lottery for those pretty pixils. There were people who liked the epic grind, even with it's oh so elusive and potentially frustrating shards and seals, and enjoyed finding creative ways to get through this difficult content efficiently. And there were people who enjoyed rerunning the older content through many different lives with that promise of a stronger character awaiting them.

    In today's DDO you can still keep TRing, even thought the benefits provided by it are dwarfed by the amount of power given by Epic Destinies. But the 'social raiders' have effectively been kicked to the curb. There is one raid, Fall of Truth, that is currently considered to be worth running. Nowhere near enough content to really make for an enjoyable evening spent with online friends. Those who used to enjoy the challenge of old-epic content are likewise wondering what to do. With no disincentives to reenter Epic Elite quests they have become something of a joke. And with the gear becoming Bind on Equip players geared up very quickly, and are left with very little reason to keep going back except for the fact that there isn't really anything ~else~ to do either.

    And now the Shadowfell expansion promises to raise the level cap yet again and make this lacking pool of end game content available obsolete once more. With no raid in the expansion, and relatively few quests even, I am left seriously baffled. So I have to ask..... What do the people making design decisions expect players to be doing? What is the focus of your game?

    I am a really big fan of DDO. I have enjoyed it immensely over the years. But right now I really need a bit of help finding where exactly the 'fun' is supposed to be. Because it feels like what we have gotten over the last year is lackluster content without any real focus, and systems changes that make little sense or are very out of touch with the way that the game is played. So please, I would really like to know; What is the direction that DDO is headed in? Because from what is observable to players it is very difficult to see what the overall plan is, or if there even is one!

  2. #2
    Community Member darkrune's Avatar
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    Default As ACDC once said...

    TLDR but based on subject.

    It's " on a highway to hell!"
    Darkrune TRx2 lvl 20 FvS, Darkdivinity lvl 20 cleric, Darkaxe lvl 20 fighter, Darktune TRx1 lvl 4bard, Darkbow lvl 20 AA Ranger, Darksoldier TRx1 lvl 20 Barb, Darkspells TRx2 lvl 20 Wizard, Darkbattle TRx1 lvl 20 artificer, Darktemper lvl 17 Ranger, Darkfists TRx1 lvl 20 Monk, Darkherald lvl 5 paladin Guild Leader of No Politics Thelanis Server

  3. #3
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    The buss is headed off a cliff

  4. #4
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkrune View Post
    TLDR but based on subject.

    It's " on a highway to hell!"
    No, this is typical end money grabbing from the cash cow before finally killing it. DDO is going end of life soon. U19 or the expansion will be pretty much the last meaningful content. No bug fixes and no communication. They are aying off staff. This pretty much shows all the signs on the wall of Turbine loosing the will to continue the Franchise.

    Personally I give DDO another 1-2 years depending on how long they willfind idiots enough to put money into a dying MMO. It´s not the first time I see this on a MMO...

  5. #5
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Default

    I will let them run it however they like. I have realized that I am playing for free, so the bus can go off the cliff or it can keep rolling.

    Over the years I have made multiple tr toons and have come to the realization that I can just as easily make a first life “flavor of the month build” and be just as effective as a completionist toon that is in the party. This is the one reason that I quit tr’ing. I have a completionist that I will tr when a new class is released, but other than that I can just as easily make a very powerful first life toon in half the time.

    As most also know, loot drops are very high right after content is released. When eGH was released, I farmed it hard for a week straight. I was able to acquire enough loot to gear out my 4 main toons as well as netting a few ottos boxes and a ton of astral shards from the AH. Now that the drop rates are low in GH, why farm it? I have all that I need, and then some. Hell, I already had someone buy me the expansion, so now I have nothing to do but wait until August.

    I can do the monster manual that is nice. I can farm tp for later purchases. (Already have 10,000 and nothing worth buying until they release more packs). Even when they do release more packs, there will be someone more than willing to trade it off for loot.

    Maybe it is just me, but this could be a reason as why people are not playing as well. Don’t get me wrong, I love running content like redwillow, but there is no incentive anymore to want to run it. I would still prefer bug fixes over new content, but Turbine has made it this way.

    Turbine can keep the bus rolling however they like. Even though I do not care for the above mentioned methods, I will use it to my advantage and keep playing for free. If they start to get control of the bus I might be more willing to throw out some dough.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  6. #6
    Community Member Tuffmann's Avatar
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    Default

    Dont realy care any more about if this game will close or not.

    I wont spend any real $ on this game ever again.
    It not worth it to me any more.

    Ill trade for anything i might want and if it comes to the point i cant trade for it
    I just wont get it.

    Alot of it has to do with the direction the game going.
    Forum moderaters taking sides instead of enforceing forum rules as a nutrral party
    the lack of quality in everything they release.
    customer service is horrible

    I have been a paying customer for over seven years now. And had no intentions of changing that fact untill of lately.
    If this how they want to treat there paying customers then it doesnt take a MBA to figure out where the business going to end up.
    Last edited by Tuffmann; 06-07-2013 at 02:12 PM.
    Aceita - 22 life Monk Completionist -

  7. #7
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    Default Frankly,

    When you have a development team that refuses to interact with the player base on the pretense of rudeness/vitriol when this same rudeness is something that has been brought on by the very actions of the development team and the ignoring of fixing things that have been pointed out long before content ever hits live servers, then you have a community that begins to despise the very people that create the game.

    It is hard for the community to have faith in what we get told by the team, or even by the community representatives because the things we get told, are often as not different from what is released.

    And then the players are the bad guy for getting upset about it.

    And then the development team in response clams up, blaming the players for their clamming up.

    It is an endless cycle. Players test product. Players find problems and point said problems out to the proper people in the proper test server. Proper people on the proper test server being informed of problems do not properly fix the problems before launch.

    I would prefer to see a launch date pushed back a week, a month or even a year so that I could get excited about the content. Hell, pushing it back for fixes would just make me look forward to the content even more if it were clearly stated it was being pushed back to fix it and release it in as much of a bug free state as possible. That would excite me. That would get me eager to see it.

    At this rate, with even community representatives being given incorrect information to pass along to the community where is this bus headed?

    Right into a dead end.


    There is no worse thing for player happiness than to see that the development team cares as little about the quality of THEIR game as they do about interacting with the THEIR players.

    Once the players stop spending, there will be a whole lot of people in the bread line.

    I would really like to be given some content that is not bug ridden released unfinished to stay unfinished forever that I can spend some money on and help support those that bring us the game.

    But in all honesty, a guy that doesn't do a good job mowing my lawn when I pay him is not going to be getting paid for doing a lousy job of mowing my lawn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Codog View Post
    [*]Small evolutionary change that can be completed in shorter stretches of time is more readily achieveable for us than large _revolutionary_ change. Revolutionary change can be rather destabilizing from an engineering and balance perspective.

  8. #8
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Default

    Given the drastic changes in the game and player base in the last year I can only think that we are headed towards



  9. #9
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    The new end game:

    1) Click roll on Daily Dice gold chest until out of astral shards
    2) Access store and buy more astral shards
    3) Return to (1)

    Once you understand this, you realize that new (expensive to develop) content is unnecessary and that almost all bug fixes do nothing to enhance your gaming experience.

    It took me awhile, but I finally came to understand why Thrudh never encountered any serious bugs in game.

  10. #10
    Community Member rest's Avatar
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    Default



    Crash and burn.

  11. #11
    Founder Dorian's Avatar
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    Didn't we used to have a "State of the Game" post from Turbine? It was posted every quarter or a couple of times a year.
    Dorian

  12. #12
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian View Post
    Didn't we used to have a "State of the Game" post from Turbine? It was posted every quarter or a couple of times a year.
    We're two months away from an "expansion" with little to no information given to the customers.

    I know they hate us but this is still pretty pathetic.

    If you need a good laugh take a look at DDO's Facebook page, same thing as here with people's complaints. Why would anybody try a game who's public presence is in such poor shape?

  13. #13

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    I'm pretty sure the name on the driver's license says "Toonces".

  14. #14
    Uber Uber Completionist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    No, this is typical end money grabbing from the cash cow before finally killing it. DDO is going end of life soon. U19 or the expansion will be pretty much the last meaningful content. No bug fixes and no communication. They are aying off staff. This pretty much shows all the signs on the wall of Turbine loosing the will to continue the Franchise.

    Personally I give DDO another 1-2 years depending on how long they willfind idiots enough to put money into a dying MMO. It´s not the first time I see this on a MMO...
    I look forward to quoting you in 3 or 4 years time.

    If you think only idiots play, please feel free to leave the forums and never post again and leave us VIP idiots to play the game.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    No, this is typical end money grabbing from the cash cow before finally killing it. DDO is going end of life soon. U19 or the expansion will be pretty much the last meaningful content. No bug fixes and no communication. They are aying off staff. This pretty much shows all the signs on the wall of Turbine loosing the will to continue the Franchise.
    I have to really disagree with this. When software is moving into end of life, they do not reword entire systems from the ground up. Without going into a debate about whether the Enhancement Tree changes are actually good or bad for the game, the fact that it is being made is a pretty clear indicator that Turbine does not intend to cut future support for DDO.

    The fact that MajorMalfunction has started a new version of his 'end of week' post not long after I made the initial post today is also very encouraging to me. A great deal of information has been passed on this way in the past, and it has always seemed like a very good tool for two-way interaction.

    The pictures posted can be amusing. But I have a strong suspicion that if most people truly felt that DDO was on a dead end path they would not be hanging around on the forums to poke fun at it. That would make their own use of time more than a bit sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian View Post
    Didn't we used to have a "State of the Game" post from Turbine? It was posted every quarter or a couple of times a year.
    This is really the heart of what I was getting at. It used to be that the people in charge of determining the game's design direction would make comments about it. From that, players were able to decide if they wanted to go where things were headed, or if DDO was perhaps not the game for them. The most recent 'State of the Game' post was made by Producer Glen, and it provided a much better look at what features we could be looking forward to than the ones that came before that for the last few years. And by 'better' I mean rough ideas that may or may not have given any real indication of what was being developed, but at least it was not extremely erroneous.

    But what we have ~not~ seen is any kind of indication as to what the goals that are being worked towards are. It is nice to hear that 'epic TR' is on the plate. But it would be much better if the community were given some kind of sense as to what the play experience at level 28 might be like. If filling out endgame content is a thing of the past and the new design is to constantly push the level cap and churn more and more quests for people to run for a short period of time and possibly 'epic TR' to extend the lifespan of this content, that would be nice to know. But right now we are left speculating.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAccess View Post
    I have to really disagree with this. When software is moving into end of life, they do not reword entire systems from the ground up. Without going into a debate about whether the Enhancement Tree changes are actually good or bad for the game, the fact that it is being made is a pretty clear indicator that Turbine does not intend to cut future support for DDO.

    The fact that MajorMalfunction has started a new version of his 'end of week' post not long after I made the initial post today is also very encouraging to me.
    You may be right but many players, including me, are confused. We don't understand why Turbine is treating the game the way they are. Why would they release a paid expansion with so many things wrong with it? Why do they continue to release content with bugs that were known in Lammania? Bugs that were noted by devs who said the bugs would not make it to live? Why are there SO MANY bugs from so long ago that have never been fixed? It looks to me like they are letting the game go down the drain. And with no communication all the players can do is speculate on the evidence. Maybe you are correct that the new content means that they intend the game to continue. Or maybe the new content is stuff that they put enough man-hours into already that they want to try to get paid for it before they shut the game down.

    In my opinion if they had a plan for the game to continue for the foreseeable future they would say so. If they have no good news what can they say? They can't outright lie or that will reflect badly on other Turbine games and WB.

  17. #17
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forummuleonly View Post
    But in all honesty, a guy that doesn't do a good job mowing my lawn when I pay him is not going to be getting paid for doing a lousy job of mowing my lawn.

    No, just going to use his lawnmower and complain to everyone how bad the mower is, yet still use it over and over. Followed up closely with calling the owner of the mower a slew of insults and further complain that he won't respond to you. And yet, still use his mower.

    And the circle of hate goes on.

    Pro tip;

    Go find a different mower.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    No, just going to use his lawnmower and complain to everyone how bad the mower is, yet still use it over and over. Followed up closely with calling the owner of the mower a slew of insults and further complain that he won't respond to you. And yet, still use his mower.

    And the circle of hate goes on.

    Pro tip;

    Go find a different mower.

    Yeah, I have this bad habit of not being a two face and telling the guy that did a bad job mowing my lawn he did a bad job mowing my lawn.

    You know, because every time I see how badly my lawn was mowed by a guy paid to mow it, I get this warm fuzzy feeling inside and want to rush out and congratulate him for failing to do quality work, such as you do.


    Pro tip: feedback is always good, and bad feedback shows where improvement needs to be made, while good feedback shows no more changes need to be made.
    Quote Originally Posted by Codog View Post
    [*]Small evolutionary change that can be completed in shorter stretches of time is more readily achieveable for us than large _revolutionary_ change. Revolutionary change can be rather destabilizing from an engineering and balance perspective.

  19. #19
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Oh, and this is where the bus is headed;




    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  20. #20
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forummuleonly View Post
    Yeah, I have this bad habit of not being a two face and telling the guy that did a bad job mowing my lawn he did a bad job mowing my lawn.

    You know, because every time I see how badly my lawn was mowed by a guy paid to mow it, I get this warm fuzzy feeling inside and want to rush out and congratulate him for failing to do quality work, such as you do.


    Pro tip: feedback is always good, and bad feedback shows where improvement needs to be made, while good feedback shows no more changes need to be made.
    And the insults continue, consistency ftw.

    Maybe, mow your own lawn from now on to avoid the loss of funds and the aggravation of always having to tell someone how bad of a job they are doing? At least then would only have yourself to blame for the bad job.

    Such negative energy all the time, do you need a hug?


    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

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