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  1. #21
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Sep 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Personally, I found concentration extremely useful for spell casting/item activation (not counting monks and ki, it's always useful there) in two different areas in EE content - getting off a scroll while getting hit by ranged (not spell, just arrow) damage, and in general for my shiradi sorc (having 55+ concentration meant not having quicken on for my spam spells).

    Against a melee hit,'s practically impossible to have enough concentration.
    You would think people would know to listen to Wrunt by now.

    My shiradi sorc's concentration sits at ~75 right now with no specific effort put into it. I'll likely be ditching my guild slot goggles when I rearrange my gear, so that'll drop to ~60 with no +13 item.

    Concentration is greatly useful in EE. I only quicken Reconstruct and Otto's in EE; spells and ranged do not hit me for enough to interrupt my offensive spells any noticeable percentage of the time. Melee hits are rare enough to not care about, and I'm going to be more worried about Reconstructing myself afterwards anyway.

  2. #22
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Nov 2010


    I use elite Coal Chamber as an acid test for Concentration in heroic levels. I've found that the numbers ion that quest have been so jacked-up for that specific quest that if you're having problems with getting spells off due to concentration issues, it'll be glaring.

    Is it a useless skill? Not al all. You can either invest in the skill, or spend a buttload of spell points into making sure every spell is quickened, which will bleed you dry well before the end of most quests. I max out concentration, andf make sure I have at least 2 enhancements that go to is, as well as the highest equipment item I can get. I normally don't run EE content, but I have very few problems (if any) getting stuff to land on EH.

    And if you're taking so much damage on EE that you can't get a spell off, maybe you need to hang out in the back, and take less aggro. It is easy to get into a style of playing where you are more confrontational with self-healing. When you're unable to easily self-heal, you get mighty cagey (sp:?) with how you zap off spells so as to avoid taking damage altogether.

  3. #23
    Community Member
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    Apr 2013


    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Okay I've seen some crunchy types say around here on more than one occasion that concentration is functionally useless because of how much damage mobs do later in the game and the way spell interrupts are based on a percentage of your hp's in damage dealt to you, while the skill is ALSO based on overcoming that large chunk of damage. Effectively so I've heard: any hit big enough to interrupt you is also big enough that you wont make your skill check.

    My seat of the pant feeling is that it does seem to be pretty nearly useless as every hit on my 25 FvS for a couple years now, seems to interrupt non quickened spells (decent Con, +15 item worn for a long time and 23 ranks), so all my spells that matter are quickened. Lately my BB is the only exception and I consistently get a fail with it if anything at all hits me before the cast is over (Obviously I adjust my tactics when it's time to lay down a BB and most of the time I get them off)

    Forgive me I'm not generally a crunchy bits type, so if I get any of this wrong please be as patronizing and smarmy as possible; no just kidding, trying for conversational here (I don't pretend to know everything about this game and don't believe anyone who does, except perhaps Mr Cow, it's a complex beast and all the better a game because of it) I did search on this and found very little of use Anyway: As I understand it you would need to roll a 20, have 23 ranks, a +10 con modifier, and a +15 item on to pass a concentration check for a 68 point hit... any more damage than that will always interrupt. and very likely significantly less damage than that will also interrupt because of course A) you aren't always going to roll 20 and B) you might very well not have a 30 Con and C) you probably don't have room for a +15 skill item.

    So I guess practically speaking we're talking about a d20, 23 ranks, no item and a +8 con bonus, meaning 51 damage is 100% interrupt, and 32 damage is a fail on a 1.

    Does this leave us investing 23 skill ranks just to avoid interrupt by archers? Granted they are annoying...

    For the hell of it I've recently left concentration completely off a newer Pali, a Battle Cleric and Bard, and I have to say, it feels like I am interrupted about the same as my FvS with 23 ranks. I'm now making a Bladeforged Sorc, and 8 INT leaves precious little skill points, UMD being very attractive

    So I suppose the question is beyond anecdotal evidence, has anyone tested this? Is it even useful against archers? DO archers tend to do enough damage to cause a spell interruption? There's not many places in the later game where Mobs don't hit for more than 31 damage even on a full S&B PRR Pali.
    I believe in pen and paper the calculation for whether you can make a concentration check is:

    10 base+spell level+1/2 damage (that might actually be pathfinder, but i think this is a good place to start)

    so for your bladebarrier, let's say you get hit for 50 damage:
    10 base+9 spell level (heightened I assume)+25=44 or a DC 44 concentration check, which is easy enough to make.

    Now for epic hard Giants in eGH they are hitting for about 120 damage a swing:
    (with BB again)
    10 base+9 spell level+60=79 concentration check

    Now let's say an EE mob hitting for 300:
    (again, bladebarrier)
    10 base+9 spell level+150=169 concentration check.

    So in fact if you want to run any epic hard or epic elite gianthold (or really any other epic elites) the concentration skill is useless, and you better have quicken.

    EDIT: not to say the concentration skill is useless in its entirety, just that it is functionally limited, and you should definitely take quicken on ANY caster.
    Last edited by Primordial_Soup; 06-11-2013 at 01:21 PM.
    Ckarlock, Dragonbloodz, Sorinsal. Argo Server, Guild: Bringers of Darkness.

  4. #24


    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Quicken as a meta is IMO highly underrated, it doesn't just make you un-interuptable... it makes your play experience much more fluid and smooth, as many of the casting animations make you go into slowmo mode (or hop around like a maniac) and thus disjoint the movement and responsiveness of your control inputs.
    I find the opposite, where the slower unquickened animations are much smoother while the quickened animation is a jittery thing that doesn't always draw. This is so annoying to me that I took quicken off my cleric's Avenging Light sla. The stutter on that animation (when quickened) is so severe that a third of the time no animation happens at all, though the spell does cast. This messes up my rhythm, so I turned it off.

    As even the strongest proponents admit: effective against mostly archers and DOT's and not even all that effective against melee in EH
    Many of us in the thread do not admit this; we posted the opposite. My pally's experience in EH is that concentration is sufficient to heal through EH melee attacks.

  5. #25
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Oct 2010


    Quote Originally Posted by Ironclans_evil_twin View Post
    Actually we do, and 99% of the posts in this thread are the same anecdotal offering of opinions based on actual game play as your post, only they don't all agree with you.

    I'm hoping someone with something BETTER than anecdotal in game experience will come along and relate something more concrete... until then speculation, confirmation biased and selection biased skewed opinions (mine and yours included) are all we have. Posting attacking other peoples observations with your own doesn't change the fact that we have no objective numbers to go by. All it does is suggest strongly that you think your opinion is fact, when it's not.

    Is Conc easy to max? Perhaps... but it's taking other affixes off of your load out doing that... it's got something gamers call "opportunity cost" and sacrificing 3 or 4 gear choices, maxing a skill at the expense of other skills (which might become really interesting when spell power becomes a skill (Spellcraft and Healing/Repair) and crafting something perhaps not the most optimal for your build might have a very high cost (losing exceptional Charisma skills on a UMD cross class toon for example)...

    So instead of pretending that you're the only one capable of making non-scientific observations and relating them on a forum, how about join the CONVERSATION instead of being preachy and condescending which almost every post in this thread so far except yours have managed to avoid?
    Wrong. I didn't reply with anecdotal evidence, I replied with simple, testable and provable facts.

    • Fact: concentration is necessary to avoid interruption by archers and dots, both of which are common in EE. This is easily provable by observing damage numbers by archers and caster dots in literally every EE GH quest.
    • Fact: taking concentration is extremely cheap build wise, costing 5% of your total build points at start, and even less after level ups and gear.

    Again, simple and provable by basic scientific observations. You can complain all you want about me being preachy, condescendy or whatever, but the simple truth is you are objectively wrong. If you think concentration is useless, you are either really bad at the basic game and logic or you are simply playing forum and not DDO and maybe even trolling. The fact that you wall-of-text every post makes it seem like the latter tbh.

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