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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Nope. I saw exactly what the thread was about - the same old strawman argument about people supposedly being jelly over someone being able to buy what they had to grind. Ive refuted this countless times, and each time it is ignored and responded to with more of the same.
    Ok, since you've refuted but been ignored, it must have been all true and right to everyone. Whatever, this is still there because I read it everyday. Anyway, while this is relevant to the thread, i'll have to say this is not really important overall. But know this: If you come up with exactly the same arguments everytime and nothing has even a slight chance of changing it, of course people will also respond the same. It seems to be a forum-game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    And I posted what my reasoning is, and it is quite sound. Care to attempt to refute it, other than starting off with "you fail to see..." but not really providing any reasoning why what Im actually saying is supposedly incorrect.
    I still think that you're reasoning was incomplete. When I offer my opinions / point of views, I never think that I hold the only true so while you might not be "incorrect", I (me) feel that you are flawed because of a self-centered position. I thought what I said was a good clue enought so that you could understand what I meant. But it was too much work I guess. People don't disagree with something unless they have a reason. So since there are people against p2w stuff like xp pots, they must have a reason. That's why it is an argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Please quote where I stated its 100% bad. Sounds like another strawman argument to me. I dont believe youll find that I ever took that position. Disagree? Show me where I said it.

    Pretty hard to measure in exact proportions, but take a gander at what happens in game between each expansion now. The times between when people start dropping off again and when they come back (expansion release) is getting longer and longer - because the game gets easier and easier. Turbine doesnt mind, because when they do come back for a few weeks they pay heavily into the system, sprining for timer bypass and mana pots all over again, in order to farm those new shinies before everyone else does. Once the boredom sets in shortly afterward however.....they are gone again until the next content drop. Turbine gets their money out of those folks easily enough. Only this time its different....why you ask? No raid.
    Now you're pushing this to me putting words in your mouth when I made an assumption... semantic battle? I'm not biting sorry. And also sorry that I don't know all your historical thoughts on the subject, nor will I take time to re-read the same arguments over and over again.

    In the end, your exemple is one that can be observed in every single MMOs that doesn't come up with enought content to please everyone. This is not a DDO specialty and is related to so many factors (like summer).

    I feel like this was just a way to use the word "strawman".
    Kal Vas Flam... Corp Por... Corp Por

    ...And then there was silence

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    P2W is anything where spending money gets you more in game power. There are two prime examples of it, btcoe gear and the shard exchange where you can spend real life money and be end game geared, and otto's boxes where you spend money and get over 8 levels if you have xp effects active. Sorry but there is p2w, it's effects can be argued it's existance can't.
    Actually, BTCoE gear on the shard exchange is only borderline IMO as it only needs to be sold there if it has already been equipped.

    But as far as the other goes, along with tomes of fate, xp tomes, xp potions, slayer boost potions, jewels of fortune and vet I/II status. As far as I'm concerned these probably shouldn't even be included as in-game rewards.

    I'd even include sp potions, better than csw potions and other items that aren't available from in-game vendors as P2W, but okay as rare in-game drops.

    That said, I really don't have a problem with the store selling them, but I, personally, wont be buying my way through the game. It's to much, to me, like running a marathon and buying the chance to start at the 20 mile mark. I wouldn't be actually running a marathon in my mind so it would defeat the purpose of even bothering with it at all. But if another wants to do that, more power to them.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MangLord View Post
    Imagine trying to complete quests without your greensteel weapons, or dragonscale armor, or even any other named items. 95% of those are only obtainable with p2p quests. Can you even make it to level 20 without buying content?

    That is the definition of pay to win.
    Except that is exactly what they say the are selling you from the start.

    As far as getting to 20 without buying content (or actually grinding favor for the express purpose of grinding favor), yes you can. It only took a couple adventure packs that I easily earned enough favor to get just from running free content up to that level, when I did it and more teen level content has been added since.

    Oh and it's easy for me to imagine that as I have no greensteel, dragonscale (or even dragontouched) armor and few named items I actually use at heroic levels, the most prominent of those I do have coming from a f2p quest anyway.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    Also I would like to point that there HAS to be ways to kind of restrict the game from being totally free to someone. Whatever it is... And xp seems to be something that no one can get away from so yeah... not such a bad idea from Turbine. (for when it comes to xp at least)
    Why when that is something that they are actually advertising as being offered?

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