Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 61 to 73 of 73
  1. #61
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    5,345

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    Wow.

    So you HONESTLY thought that you - essentially soloing the quest - was a fine thing to do even though some one ASKED YOU TO STOP?!

    So you SERIOUSLY were not capable of understanding their request that you stop doing the quest for them and instead allow them to participate?!

    Hm...Ok...Thanks for the insight into the way you think.
    Turbines failure not mine, that life at that point I could one shot rooms of mobs, I could either do that or pike. You are saying if you have a powerful toon you must pike so others can play.

  2. #62
    2015 DDO Players Council MangLord's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Troy, NY
    Posts
    1,016

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    The problem is that what one person considers zerging another may not. I'll give you an example, I was recently leveling a sorc, I would go first into the room so everything ran at me, hit a firball, watch everything fall down dead and move to the next room. I was asked to stop zerging. Personally I don't understand it, because that to me is simply running the quest, when stuff is dead I move to the next thing and kill it. I don't take a break in each room to ponder the meaning of life. I did not train mobs behind me or anything like that, just move kill and move again.
    I think that's fair. However, some people just have weird brains. Me, for example, I absolutely have to turn around, hit Q a bunch of times and make sure I didn't leave any money or treasure bags in our wake. I fully understand it's only 22pp, but I cannot help myself. Also, if the map is black, I feel compelled to fill in that corner of the room. You never know when the boogeyman is hiding there. I could have run it 100 times, but the compulsion remains. I apologize in advance.

  3. #63
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    3,064

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    The problem is that what one person considers zerging another may not. I'll give you an example, I was recently leveling a sorc, I would go first into the room so everything ran at me, hit a firball, watch everything fall down dead and move to the next room. I was asked to stop zerging. Personally I don't understand it, because that to me is simply running the quest, when stuff is dead I move to the next thing and kill it. I don't take a break in each room to ponder the meaning of life. I did not train mobs behind me or anything like that, just move kill and move again.
    I've come to associate the word zerg specifically with the technique of running past everything and not killing it. Dungeon alert or not. Just moving fast is a different thing. Once everything is dead, it's time to move on, i agree. It's unfortunate that your character is so powerful that you can easily instakill whole rooms like that. Still, you have to see how that would make it pretty unfun for the rest of the group.

  4. #64
    Founder
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,611

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Turbines failure not mine, that life at that point I could one shot rooms of mobs, I could either do that or pike. You are saying if you have a powerful toon you must pike so others can play.
    ROFLMAO so it's Turbine's fault that you can't control yourself. If you were jogging with a group of friends and you were naturally faster than them, you would not be ABLE to control yourself from running faster than them right? They would be going together in a group and you would get there ahead of them and blame it on what - god? LOL

  5. #65
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Turbines failure not mine, that life at that point I could one shot rooms of mobs, I could either do that or pike. You are saying if you have a powerful toon you must pike so others can play.


    My motorcycle does the 1/4 mile in 10 seconds, and can easily cruise at 130mph all day long. When I ride with other people, especially those who might not be capable or comfortable at those speeds, do I peg the throttle and tell them (when I see them much, much later) that it's not my fault, it's the manufacturer of the motorcycle? Or do I twist the throttle a bit less and ride with them?

    It's all about what's more important to you.

    To blame it on Turbine however, is cheap.

  6. #66
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    3,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post


    My motorcycle does the 1/4 mile in 10 seconds, and can easily cruise at 130mph all day long. When I ride with other people, especially those who might not be capable or comfortable at those speeds, do I peg the throttle and tell them (when I see them much, much later) that it's not my fault, it's the manufacturer of the motorcycle? Or do I twist the throttle a bit less and ride with them?

    It's all about what's more important to you.

    To blame it on Turbine however, is cheap.
    If I am riding (grouping) with friends, I will go as slow as needed. It is fun for me that my friends are having fun.

    When I am riding with people I do not know, (Chinese sweat shop), I could care less as I do not know them. If they want to ride fast (zerg) with me, perfect. If they are stuck in first gear, oh well.

    It is the responsibility of both Turbine and you to determine if you are having fun. Turbine is the supplier and you are their customer. I am just another consumer along for the ride. I have no obligation to make sure that you are having fun as I get nothing out of the deal. I am not one that gets a good feeling by being the hero of leading noobs to victory. So that camaraderie stuff has little bearing.

    From what I see Turbine does not listen to its player base. And if they do, they are listening to all the wrong players, or else we would not have threads like this. This is exactly why it is either Turbine’s fault or the random pugger for not making fun out of what they can.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

    LEGION

  7. #67
    Founder
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,611

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    When I am riding with people I do not know, (Chinese sweat shop), I could care less as I do not know them. If they want to ride fast (zerg) with me, perfect. If they are stuck in first gear, oh well.
    So if you join a PUG you are still only out for yourself and don't care about the other players in your group? Then why do you join a PUG? If you are self-sufficient why not solo everything? If you join a group because you NEED something from them, it's selfish to not return the favor by cooperating. Don't forget that the OP asked the zerger to stop and he would not, we're not talking about a group where everyone was just going their merry way and no one communicated.

  8. #68
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    There are people that berate and belittle other people to build themselves up. Typically, it's because they need to feel better about themselves. They will always exist, and always have existed. Also remember that playing online social games attracts sociopaths and children. I should say immature players, as I've played with some very young people on DDO who were quite capable. One kid was 4 and other than the fact that he (she?) wouldn't shut up, they played very well. There are plenty of folks that are physically mature, but mentally... not so much. They may be playing for some social interaction, but never learned the difference between negative and positive interactions... to them attention is attention. Keep these things in mind, acquire some skin thickener, and do what makes you happy. Luckily, the good folks on DDO outnumber the whacky ones by 100:1, so it's easy enough to squelch and move on if you run into someone that's truly evil.

    The problem is that there are no consequences for this behaviour in DDO. A while back, I joined a pug for diplomatic impunity. The lfm didn't say anything about zerg or fast completion. The leader invized everyone at the start without a word and then took off running. Well, we had new players and they aggroed the scorps. One of them cast a firewall, and another took a couple swings as they were running. Dropping their invis and dragging all the trash to the rest of the group and the leader where we all wiped. The leader got extremely verbally abusive, not only calling these two new players "stupid" and "retarded", but also using words that I cannot reprint or I would be banned. At least two of us reported this behaviour, but nothing was done. That toon was still playing months later, and talking to other people related similar stories of his antics in other groups. I understand that you can't ban people from he said/she said reports, but if you get several of them from unrelated people, there should be some recourse and consequences.
    yeah its a shame that stuff happens. I know a veteran who had been playing for 5-6 years who started ripping into a girl because she made one simple mistake. he was very verbally abusive to her. Yet again its that stupid thinking that people think they're better then everyone else. i just wished they would stick to their own lfms. They really dont need to be ruining other peoples experience.

    now if its someone i dont know he could be just a jerk overall or a veteran. Its not like i know everyone lol. Even still my point is more towards veterans who just feel its their need to take over others parties or just be a jerk if they dont like something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Every member has a responsibility to say "hey I don't know this part that well" or "I haven't ran this before" responsibility by the new players could have fixed this just as easily since the first part pretty much has to be zerged. The fact that they didn't follow the person leading the pack and didn't speak up says a lot about them. As much as the tr swearing at them is bad what they did was almost just as bad.

    did you say that it was a fast run in this style in the lfm if not this is still on you as you just screwed him out of a bunch of xp for that run and with tr xp reqs he should be mad at you.


    you missed the point that neither of these people had the play style of vets, they may have been tr's and they weren't newbs but they were noobs. You're ts complaint is about a vet being elitist, your other complaints are about noobs.



    They didn't say hey haven't done it, or not familar with it, and didn't realize that invis was cast for a reason? Not saying the leader should have sworn at them but if I was the lead I would have dropped group and re ran it solo at that point. It's that kind of behavior by joiners why people post lfms less and less and solo more. Puggers screw up completions.

    As for the other ones i mentioned they are veterans not just because of trs. lol I know who they were. That is the reason i mentioned them. i didnt say it because they did something noobish lol. whether they thought i was robbing them or not is not the point. When someone starts to argue with me of how i should do my groups then yes i get angry and just complete it without letting them out. i told him i was going to pick it up. He could of simply said alright let me recall out. instead he kept saying NO NO NO NO do the entire dungeon. no no no get conquest ransack. I was like no i dont want to spend that extra time looking for every single mob and thing to break.

    That isnt me being a jerk, but its still my party as well. When the invis thing with madstone came up. That guy could of just stayed up there or actually listened and came down. Instead he did what he wanted so that resulted in it restarting and having to spend time up there watching the seer. so yes both players are veterans who have been playing for a long time. It applies to the same theory of stop doing what you want to do if you're in someone's group.

    Even if there was no zerging in a lfm details doesn't mean zerg either. I have no issue with anyone asking can i zerg? depending on the quest i probably would even say yes. to assume its ok right off the back is NOT ok. that is why people don't like zergers. you need to break that mentality like the tr mentality.
    Last edited by arkonas; 06-03-2013 at 10:25 AM.

  9. #69
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    2,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkston View Post
    Every time one of these stories gets posted on the forum, it makes PUGging seem worse than it is. Most of the time you join a random group it goes smoothly, you meet a lot of players, and I find it more fun than xp farming.

    Ironically, you are hurting the PUG scene when telling these horror stories by turning off players who only play with guildmates and friends from hitting an LFM. It gives a false impression I think.
    while this maybe true a little it still needs to be said to let people know this behavior should stop. i know you cant force anyone to change for any reason. It will still happen but no reason you cant attempt to be more social then being rude. Sure most pugs end up going just fine. I pugged a lot last night and for once no issues. new players and veterans together. Not one person yelled at another. it was nice. No one took over anyones group either. lfms were actually followed if they had anything. paces were kept if the leader chose to zerg.

    Either way the day went good from my experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    The problem is that what one person considers zerging another may not. I'll give you an example, I was recently leveling a sorc, I would go first into the room so everything ran at me, hit a firball, watch everything fall down dead and move to the next room. I was asked to stop zerging. Personally I don't understand it, because that to me is simply running the quest, when stuff is dead I move to the next thing and kill it. I don't take a break in each room to ponder the meaning of life. I did not train mobs behind me or anything like that, just move kill and move again.
    mmm it could be zerging to some while you were being efficient. Some still like to swing a weapon not just move into an empty room. So iffy on that one. i will at least respect you for not leaving trails of mobs behind you.

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    So if you join a PUG you are still only out for yourself and don't care about the other players in your group? Then why do you join a PUG? If you are self-sufficient why not solo everything? If you join a group because you NEED something from them, it's selfish to not return the favor by cooperating. Don't forget that the OP asked the zerger to stop and he would not, we're not talking about a group where everyone was just going their merry way and no one communicated.
    yep now we also know first timers should always say something but somethings if they've seen the behavior of bad pugs it scares them to speak up. either way its a lose lose for us. they don't speak and we could get mad at them. i respect new players a lot more if they can speak up but some are just scared or dont talk.



    Now granted the only thing we had happen yesterday with the whole tr thing was we wanted someone to wait on a chest until everyone was in and of course it got opened. The only thing we didnt like is we voiced and typed can you hear us? no response. yet they can say laaaaaaggg brt omw i can swing a big axe lol. Now was he a veteran or a new player i dont know. Should he at least have answered the question then yes. to me its very important you should be able to hear or at least type yes i can read.

  10. #70
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2,822

    Default

    TS is one of those runs that is very new-player friendly. They only thing they need to do is stick with the group. There are only three places that I can think of that require instruction: Fire and Ice, the entrance of the quest, and the end fight. And at the end fight, that usually requires coordination anyways, so that's neither here nor there.

    So I have no idea why any vets / TRs and giving new players grief. Yeah, TS is a bit of a zergfest. It is also one of the few runs that requires very little in the way of instruction for new players. Cripes, just sticking with the group is how I learned it.

    Plus, it is one of the few (if the only) F2P raids. And it is hysterically fun to run, as far as I'm concerned.

    Honestly, I'm seeing a lot of apathy from vets lately concering dealing with new players - I frankly don't get it. I ran with a group of (obviously) new players on Acid Wit just this weekend. We had a couple of deaths (one specific rouge needed more than 106 HP if he was going to continue to play the way he was), I had to tell the group that there was an optinal end-fight (more deaths), and we missed a couple of elementals. To me it was no big deal. As fun as any other run I've had in there. I could have been the guy pointing out some of the hysterically low HP numbers on some of those toons, but that would have been pointless. There were relatively few deaths.

    But I can imagine how annoying that run could have been if some of the prevailing attitudes vets and TRs hold these days were aired. First, the vte would zerg the entire thing, and constantly complain about the low HP of the group. That would have caused all sorts of stife and tension that really doesn't need to be there.

    I know a lot of this territory has already been covered a number of times by a number of people. PUGs these days are harder and harder to come by. It's be nice of some of the vets out there would restrain themselves from making it difficult to getting a PUG together. Yeah, I know there are issues with new players as well, but that's really only a poor excuse.

  11. #71
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    4,597

    Default

    I'm a laid back player myself - I'm also a very effective leader able to find the best in players that are willing, even surviving through some of the toughest challenges.

    How I do it is to remind myself that it is just a game and 0s and 1s. I've meet a handful of NOOBs, you know the kind that have run every quests 1000s of times and they know all the ins and outs but still manage to screw up but its everyone else's fault...

    A couple things I think if everyone stopped and considered would help improve the situation.

    1. Let the PL set the pace - sure you could run the quest in 30 seconds, but that is not always the goal of every player
    2. Let the PL open the quest - See rule 1. Only exception is when they have OK'd others to get started
    3. Check your ego at the Door. New players learn more when they get to "DO". Personally I like to teach them the puzzles by walking them through it.
    4. There are only a handful of Exceptional self taught players of this game - I've meet some of them, understandably they are not Jerks and are almost always willing to Teach.
    5. There is no Destination in DDO, only the journey. So where are all these people hurrying off to?

    It is a game, if you find your blood boiling, you find yourself on the verge of yelling... I will leave you with the same advice I have given my son who is 5 years old; Step away, it is just a game and not worth being agree about "Ever".

  12. #72
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    3,593

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HAL View Post
    So if you join a PUG you are still only out for yourself and don't care about the other players in your group? Then why do you join a PUG? If you are self-sufficient why not solo everything? If you join a group because you NEED something from them, it's selfish to not return the favor by cooperating. Don't forget that the OP asked the zerger to stop and he would not, we're not talking about a group where everyone was just going their merry way and no one communicated.
    In my post I was refering to a post that AzB made. Of course I care about my needs more than another. But, if you and I enter a quest (you go left, I go right, meet in the center) we get done in half the time. Win for me and win for you. I do not pike and demand that the puggers do more than I, but if they are of the same mind set as I we can all win by blowing thru whatever quest in half the time as some sniffers.

    As to the OP, I understand his concern. It is irritating when someone joins a group and then does not follow what the PL wants. I am a zerger, but I would have stayed and followed as he wanted. if they turned this ts into a 3 hour quests, I would have been splitsville though.

    On the other hand, I wish that others would feel the same way when a slow person joins an "elitist" group. If they cannot meet what is asked, don't join. Formites are funny about how they belittle people.

    If you look at the OP, most people would say that the pugger was in the wrong because he would not follow what the party was doing. But 5 minutes later when someone complains that they were booted (because they did not follow the elitist)the same forumites would say the PL was wrong? Double standards and hipocracy is all that these lemmings have.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

    LEGION

  13. #73
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    When I am riding with people I do not know, (Chinese sweat shop), I could care less as I do not know them. If they want to ride fast (zerg) with me, perfect. If they are stuck in first gear, oh well.
    Understandable. But at least you're taking responsibility for your actions and not blaming Turbine for the reason you are not sticking with them. Blaming Turbine for not being able to slow down and stay with the party is poor logic.

Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload