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  1. #21
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Well the TR was an complete and utter ass for what he said, but TS is a zerg run by default since a HUGE portion of the population can run it in their sleep . It's not enough not to say "zerg", you have to put "no zerg" if you expect people won't zerg that quest.

    As for the people getting lost, this once TR didn't create that problem, there was apparently nothing and no one holding the party together, where was the group leader? Or right, he bailed. The biggest fail was on the group leader. If he had been leading the fact you had a zerger ahead wouldn't have hurt anyone really. The worst that could have happened is he did all the work and you all got free chests for following behind him.

    yes while that maybe true i dont assume just because nothing is in the lfm its ok to zerg and leave everyone behind either. if the leader wanted a fast pace sure i would just keep up with him but im also a tr that doesnt mind slowing down to help out others. Im not going to scream and yell at how others are **** and should know every dungeon. that ruins their experience and makes them quit or just not play often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Not to defend the tr too much but the new players in that raid sound pretty bad too. Sorry but when I was new I stuck like glue to the person in the lead. Following the person in the lead is something you learn in what pre-school when they teach you to go to the class room and back in lines.
    well the leader did attempt to go back for those that were lost but died trying to get to them. when i went back to get them he said to regroup. So from the that i know he wasnt wanting a zerging run or just didnt know it that well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    Curious OP, what did the LFM say?
    it didnt say anything. The leader was new himself and wasnt a great leader. he just wanted to run it and have fun.

  2. #22
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purgatory View Post
    Agreed 100%, Im on the other side of the fence tho. As i get alot new players that join my BYOH, know your way, fast run and are unable to do none of it. and just makes the game not as much fun for me as it could be.

    So tired of people not respecting other people play style...

    There this guild on Thelanis called the blade runners that continue to join other people group with the intention of not conforming to the groups wishes on what is expected from them. All you can do is squelch and move on.


    I can respect that lfm as well. i host a ton of byoh as well. so i know what you're implying there. every once in a while i get a new player joining. Sure it slows me down a little but some times i dont mind waiting for them. hell sometimes everyone needs to zerg to have some quick fun quick loot or even quick xp. now on the other hand no one likes being lost dying because people left trash behind constantly for them to play with. (i understand if your gathering for blade barrier, ice storm etc) meh either way i do try to lend my hand out to others if i can.

    Of course another point on that is they should respect your lfm as well no matter how we feel. the leader does set the pace and guidelines. so i usually follow them.

    i guess my tolerance will always be low to players who constantly talk down to newer players. sure i might cringe at seeing someones hp sometimes but hey their attitude could be good. they could know how to aggro management. you never know or just didnt know about items feats etc. i had a new wiz join us for elite von 3 and hard farming. i think he had around 110hp at 11. out of i think 5 runs he only died twice. he did his end and was a nice guy. So while some might have kicked him i didnt. the entire party was having a great time.

  3. #23
    Founder Dorian's Avatar
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    The last time I've grouped with someone new-to-the-game, the group was fine with slowing down and explaining things.

    I think the problem is... sometimes new players don't speak up and say that "they've never run the quest" or they are "new to the game".

    New blood to DDO is a great thing... please help new players as much as you can.
    Dorian

  4. #24
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorian View Post
    The last time I've grouped with someone new-to-the-game, the group was fine with slowing down and explaining things.

    I think the problem is... sometimes new players don't speak up and say that "they've never run the quest" or they are "new to the game".

    New blood to DDO is a great thing... please help new players as much as you can.
    yeah i really do try to help them when i can because without new blood its just us grumpy vets lol. nah honestly new blood is always great for a game. whether it be solo players, casual, elite, whatever.

  5. #25
    Community Member tralfaz81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    This isnt really a rant but more of a sad day when you see a veteran player yell at people in tempest spine hey what you dont know it and laughing at the new players. this attitude displayed by this tr sickened me. Im a tr as well and players like this really give us a bad name. I don't care if you have been playing for 7 years or not. Why is it when one of these jerks join another person's group they assume its a zerg fest and everyone knows the map/quest. This is exactly what this tr was doing. this was the 2nd time i grouped with him where one was my run and the other was someone elses.

    What sickens me is just the behavior he displayed to his fellow players. Tempest spine frustrates a lot of people and there are a ton of players who actually have never ran it before. Hell some might even be returning. Seriously what is wrong with people when it doesnt say zerg and people were getting lost. sure 5 died right away in the start because either a they didnt know where to go or remember.

    This is where the veteran showed his true colors just berating anyone who didnt know the quest. Yes new players who never ran it before. you must know it as well as everything else to be perfect to this guy. im sorry it really made me mad. so the party leader wanted everyone to recall and regroup. this is what makes it worse. the leader i think with shame left the party. So i get the star and boot the veteran jerk out of the party. while i might be a tr had a 30% pot running. I actually led the remaining players through while gaining 2 more to replace them. Sure there were deaths from the newer players but i wasnt going to yell at them.

    So my point is guys/ladies if you get to the point where you join other groups and you hate new players so much STOP joining OTHERS. group with people that know quests and stop ruining the game experience for others. keep to the channels or "elite" groups. Doing this behavior does NOT help a new player learn the game.
    To this day I wish I could remember the Vet that joined my first TS group. I put up a LFM that encouraged first timers to join - which they did. It quickly changed to 'we really need a guide.' One vet was brave enough to join 11 newbs running around lost and dying.

    *ding*
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    'I don't know...by a rock.'
    "Shut up and die like a wizard"

  6. #26
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Whenever I start to lose my patience with a newer player, I remind myself of two important things;

    1) They could just as easily - actually more easily - mock me for wasting so many valuable hours on this nonsense, and

    2) They are human beings and my equals. As much as I would like to believe that all of the time I've wasted in game translates into me being a superior being, I know this superiority only exists in this simple child's game and is meaningless.

    And then of course I have a tiny bit of empathy, which is surprisingly hard to come by for a lot of the spoiled nerdlings that play this game.

  7. #27
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purgatory View Post

    There this guild on Thelanis ...
    Reported. I would encourage others to do the same for this post.

  8. #28
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forummuleonly View Post
    Could you imagine how bad it would be if we had the Gearscore add on? Thank god we don't at least, one less thing for these same WoW rejects that do this stuff to troll with.

    Nay you can't join mah groop, you don't has uberest gear. Or getting a tell from one "I need to know your gearscore before I join your group".
    Eh we had the equivalent until recently, it was called MyDDO. Sometimes they just asked you to link your weapons etc. The you cant join "mah groop" is nothing new.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
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    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  9. #29
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    It might not be a zerg group but it clearly wasn't a teaching run either, as you demonstrate when you say five people got lost at the start: none of the other 7 players were expecting those 5 players to be absolutely clueless regarding the first 30 seconds of a raid they had just joined. If you join a raid and you don't know the drill at all, and keep your mouth shut about it, and eventually you get a spanking, you're getting what you're asking for, no more, no less. People should be polite as much as people should be held responsible for their actions. And no, no one's entitled to join whatever LFM they want to join regardless of whether or not they meet the reasonable expectations set by the wording and/or difficulty setting of that LFM.

  10. #30
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    This isnt really a rant but more of a sad day when you see a veteran player yell at people in tempest spine hey what you dont know it and laughing at the new players. this attitude displayed by this tr sickened me. Im a tr as well and players like this really give us a bad name. I don't care if you have been playing for 7 years or not. Why is it when one of these jerks join another person's group they assume its a zerg fest and everyone knows the map/quest. This is exactly what this tr was doing. this was the 2nd time i grouped with him where one was my run and the other was someone elses.

    What sickens me is just the behavior he displayed to his fellow players. Tempest spine frustrates a lot of people and there are a ton of players who actually have never ran it before. Hell some might even be returning. Seriously what is wrong with people when it doesnt say zerg and people were getting lost. sure 5 died right away in the start because either a they didnt know where to go or remember.

    This is where the veteran showed his true colors just berating anyone who didnt know the quest. Yes new players who never ran it before. you must know it as well as everything else to be perfect to this guy. im sorry it really made me mad. so the party leader wanted everyone to recall and regroup. this is what makes it worse. the leader i think with shame left the party. So i get the star and boot the veteran jerk out of the party. while i might be a tr had a 30% pot running. I actually led the remaining players through while gaining 2 more to replace them. Sure there were deaths from the newer players but i wasnt going to yell at them.

    So my point is guys/ladies if you get to the point where you join other groups and you hate new players so much STOP joining OTHERS. group with people that know quests and stop ruining the game experience for others. keep to the channels or "elite" groups. Doing this behavior does NOT help a new player learn the game.
    So don't leave us in suspense. Did you slander his family in explicit detail? Going on and on, until he frothed at the mouth? Did you continue on after said frothing?
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  11. #31
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post

    well the leader did attempt to go back for those that were lost but died trying to get to them. when i went back to get them he said to regroup. So from the that i know he wasnt wanting a zerging run or just didnt know it that well.
    The leader in what I was speaking of doesn't need to be the person with the star. It's the person out in front that knows where they're going.

  12. #32
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    So don't leave us in suspense. Did you slander his family in explicit detail? Going on and on, until he frothed at the mouth? Did you continue on after said frothing?
    lol i cant repeat some of the stuff i said but honestly a lot of this happened so quickly. i was with the main group who just hit fire and ice as people were talking and realizing the others didnt know. Some also joined late so there was no one there to show them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    The leader in what I was speaking of doesn't need to be the person with the star. It's the person out in front that knows where they're going.
    you're right the leader doesn't need to be the star. the "leader" clearly said he wasnt good at leading but i dont think he expected the reaction he got from that tr. that was the only person besides the leader who left. so the other 9 people besides myself stayed. gained 2 more then completed lol.

    funny thing 2 more occasions just happened with trs again. this behavior really makes me wonder. wiz king elite my lfm. 6 people. we kill raiyum. i give them a chance to put their voice on before we move on to finish the dungeon. one tr is saying no no do not pick it up. lol then he called me a few names for picking it up on my lfm. gotcha. Seriously people. if you want to run it your way do your own lfm. stop taking over others.

    2nd instance. madstone elite 2 different times. first was a player who refused to come down with everyone. fought the trash near the seer then we he needed health he jumped down to 2 the rest of the party. so the point he never went back up and fight started over. if he would of just came down when i invised and told him i was doing so it would never been an issue. byoh group as well lol

    2nd madstone today elite at level 16. Tr wf sorc asking for heals in a byoh group and he isnt incapped lol. his response because its sp efficient for him. my point defeats the purpose of byoh. no one wants to babysit you. So this repeated behavior of these trs or player thinking hey i do what i want. i dont care what others think or what the lfm says is just stupid. if you dont like how they run it leave the group and just be quiet.

  13. #33
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredericko View Post
    It might not be a zerg group but it clearly wasn't a teaching run either, as you demonstrate when you say five people got lost at the start: none of the other 7 players were expecting those 5 players to be absolutely clueless regarding the first 30 seconds of a raid they had just joined. If you join a raid and you don't know the drill at all, and keep your mouth shut about it, and eventually you get a spanking, you're getting what you're asking for, no more, no less. People should be polite as much as people should be held responsible for their actions. And no, no one's entitled to join whatever LFM they want to join regardless of whether or not they meet the reasonable expectations set by the wording and/or difficulty setting of that LFM.
    im iffy on this one too. Sometimes people do setup raids but they're not good leaders. That is fine if they can get someone willing to lead. now if they choose to ignore that then yes the blame normally will go down to the person with the star for not setting up the raid correctly. I have helped a lot of people with this that some should not lead a raid until you learn it. Any failures really could be held against you and maybe hurt your name depending on how bad it was.

    i understand players can let us down sometimes new or veterans. whether it was on purpose or an accident or even lack of knowledge could play into some of the issues. oh well. I will continue to help new players and kick jerks out that ruin it for others.

  14. #34
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    you're right the leader doesn't need to be the star. the "leader" clearly said he wasnt good at leading but i dont think he expected the reaction he got from that tr. that was the only person besides the leader who left. so the other 9 people besides myself stayed. gained 2 more then completed lol.
    has nothing to do with what I posted

    funny thing 2 more occasions just happened with trs again. this behavior really makes me wonder. wiz king elite my lfm. 6 people. we kill raiyum. i give them a chance to put their voice on before we move on to finish the dungeon. one tr is saying no no do not pick it up. lol then he called me a few names for picking it up on my lfm. gotcha. Seriously people. if you want to run it your way do your own lfm. stop taking over others.
    Why did he say wait, was he trying to find his xp pot real quick to drink? Did he say wait, and you just ignored him?
    2nd instance. madstone elite 2 different times. first was a player who refused to come down with everyone. fought the trash near the seer then we he needed health he jumped down to 2 the rest of the party. so the point he never went back up and fight started over. if he would of just came down when i invised and told him i was doing so it would never been an issue. byoh group as well lol

    2nd madstone today elite at level 16. Tr wf sorc asking for heals in a byoh group and he isnt incapped lol. his response because its sp efficient for him. my point defeats the purpose of byoh. no one wants to babysit you. So this repeated behavior of these trs or player thinking hey i do what i want. i dont care what others think or what the lfm says is just stupid. if you dont like how they run it leave the group and just be quiet.
    You've gone from complaining about elitists to complaining about noobs, you've lost me with your posting style and content now and I'm starting to see a common thread.

  15. #35
    Community Member AmiSouthpaw's Avatar
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    I have to say that I agree with the OP with their decision to drop and regroup. Sadly I have had to refuse TRs like that and being a TR myself I get sick at the 'Elitist' attitude that a lot of TRs have. My highest level character atm is a wizard that is somewhat decently known on Orien server and joined a TS group with the majority being first timers or those that returned or even had been sometime since running it. I do agree that it should say clearly not a zerg group but honestly that does not matter as zergers will zerg and moan about healers not doing their jobs when they are so far ahead and die or nearly die. Anyhow the group did well I helped the main group find their way and yes there was another TR in the group that had an Elitist attitude that was on voice ranting of how slow everyone was as he had ran ahead and had gotten killed so no one picked up his stone as he had not attempted to fight leaving gobs of mobs for us to clear on our advance. He had the nerve to release and I quickly got star from the leader and dropped him so he would not reenter. The group had simply stated A No Zerg Group a few days later this person did the same on a HE Chrono and refused to listen to plans that a group that I had ran with countless times before had used to complete with little to no deaths and he decided being a 3rd life barb at level he could tank Bloodplate... needless to say he was the first to die and started to fuss and cuss the healers for not healing him. I have even had groups ask me on several of the TR Characters that i have atm if I am a TR and refuse to have me in their group because of people like the one the OP described and the one that I just did its not a TR thing it is an elitist thing plain and simple and is why I am recently only running with Guild Members or friends more and more. I may end up being a recluse due to the attitude that several people are showing in game but then I have less stress in doing the way that I am atm
    Don't be fooled life is a game and there is no cheat codes or glitches just really mad devs getting even with us all

  16. #36
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    yes while that maybe true i dont assume just because nothing is in the lfm its ok to zerg and leave everyone behind either. if the leader wanted a fast pace sure i would just keep up with him but im also a tr that doesnt mind slowing down to help out others. Im not going to scream and yell at how others are **** and should know every dungeon. that ruins their experience and makes them quit or just not play often.
    My first line did say the guy was a real ass.

    But the point is, why did everyone try to follow his zerg if that's not what the group leader wanted. You all just should have let him keep running, go at your own place, and either he solos it and gets you free xp while people are leading the quest map (which isn't horrible) or he goes "ding" and you leave him where he died when you pass him (very satisfying in my experience)

    In no way was I endorsing that guy, just saying the rest of the group could have still worked together on the quest.

  17. #37
    Founder Grimborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Well the TR was an complete and utter ass for what he said, but TS is a zerg run by default since a HUGE portion of the population can run it in their sleep . It's not enough not to say "zerg", you have to put "no zerg" if you expect people won't zerg that quest.

    As for the people getting lost, this once TR didn't create that problem, there was apparently nothing and no one holding the party together, where was the group leader? Or right, he bailed. The biggest fail was on the group leader. If he had been leading the fact you had a zerger ahead wouldn't have hurt anyone really. The worst that could have happened is he did all the work and you all got free chests for following behind him.
    Seems to me that people attempt and succeed at hijacking a group by zerging ahead and causing a red dungeon alert to the dismay of the party leader. The only recourse is the recall and reform the group. Some people just don't play well with others.
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  18. #38
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    has nothing to do with what I posted

    Why did he say wait, was he trying to find his xp pot real quick to drink? Did he say wait, and you just ignored him?

    You've gone from complaining about elitists to complaining about noobs, you've lost me with your posting style and content now and I'm starting to see a common thread.
    Oh i understand the leader can be anyone. i was just explaining what happened not actually saying anything about your comment lol

    as for this tr no he wanted to do the entire thing then come back. i really didnt want to. i just wanted to pick it up after giving them a chance to use their voice.

    actually neither were new. its all the same attitude. They all wanted to take over someone else's group and not even listening. if i was to say lets do it this way and they choose to do it their way. that is not working with the group. all encounters were the same. Each one being a tr or a first life toon who has tr toons taking over other people's parties when they are NOT the leader.

    So my point of bringing it up is if you don't like how people do the groups or use tactics just leave their group.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    My first line did say the guy was a real ass.

    But the point is, why did everyone try to follow his zerg if that's not what the group leader wanted. You all just should have let him keep running, go at your own place, and either he solos it and gets you free xp while people are leading the quest map (which isn't horrible) or he goes "ding" and you leave him where he died when you pass him (very satisfying in my experience)

    In no way was I endorsing that guy, just saying the rest of the group could have still worked together on the quest.
    you're right. we could of but at least the other players were more then happy to stop and restart. so i will give them credit for actually being team players. there was one other player who spoke up as well to that tr. Honestly we did the right thing in just regrouping then dropping him. The reason i came here is just to point out a trend im noticing more often. Reasoning for my other encounters i added. its that mentality starting to expand.
    Last edited by arkonas; 06-02-2013 at 10:37 AM.

  19. #39
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    The biggest fail was on the group leader. If he had been leading the fact you had a zerger ahead wouldn't have hurt anyone really. The worst that could have happened is he did all the work and you all got free chests for following behind him.
    I don't agree. If you put no zerg in the lfm it might be because you want to actually play, not watch someone else do it for you while you attempt to catch up to them for 30 minutes.

    There have been times I've put up no zerg lfms to learn or to help someone else learn a quest. If someone comes in and zergs the whole thing, they've ruined the run.

  20. #40
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    This isnt really a rant but more of a sad day when you see a veteran player yell at people in tempest spine hey what you dont know it and laughing at the new players. this attitude displayed by this tr sickened me. Im a tr as well and players like this really give us a bad name. I don't care if you have been playing for 7 years or not. Why is it when one of these jerks join another person's group they assume its a zerg fest and everyone knows the map/quest. This is exactly what this tr was doing. this was the 2nd time i grouped with him where one was my run and the other was someone elses.

    What sickens me is just the behavior he displayed to his fellow players. Tempest spine frustrates a lot of people and there are a ton of players who actually have never ran it before. Hell some might even be returning. Seriously what is wrong with people when it doesnt say zerg and people were getting lost. sure 5 died right away in the start because either a they didnt know where to go or remember.

    This is where the veteran showed his true colors just berating anyone who didnt know the quest. Yes new players who never ran it before. you must know it as well as everything else to be perfect to this guy. im sorry it really made me mad. so the party leader wanted everyone to recall and regroup. this is what makes it worse. the leader i think with shame left the party. So i get the star and boot the veteran jerk out of the party. while i might be a tr had a 30% pot running. I actually led the remaining players through while gaining 2 more to replace them. Sure there were deaths from the newer players but i wasnt going to yell at them.

    So my point is guys/ladies if you get to the point where you join other groups and you hate new players so much STOP joining OTHERS. group with people that know quests and stop ruining the game experience for others. keep to the channels or "elite" groups. Doing this behavior does NOT help a new player learn the game.
    There are people that berate and belittle other people to build themselves up. Typically, it's because they need to feel better about themselves. They will always exist, and always have existed. Also remember that playing online social games attracts sociopaths and children. I should say immature players, as I've played with some very young people on DDO who were quite capable. One kid was 4 and other than the fact that he (she?) wouldn't shut up, they played very well. There are plenty of folks that are physically mature, but mentally... not so much. They may be playing for some social interaction, but never learned the difference between negative and positive interactions... to them attention is attention. Keep these things in mind, acquire some skin thickener, and do what makes you happy. Luckily, the good folks on DDO outnumber the whacky ones by 100:1, so it's easy enough to squelch and move on if you run into someone that's truly evil.

    The problem is that there are no consequences for this behaviour in DDO. A while back, I joined a pug for diplomatic impunity. The lfm didn't say anything about zerg or fast completion. The leader invized everyone at the start without a word and then took off running. Well, we had new players and they aggroed the scorps. One of them cast a firewall, and another took a couple swings as they were running. Dropping their invis and dragging all the trash to the rest of the group and the leader where we all wiped. The leader got extremely verbally abusive, not only calling these two new players "stupid" and "retarded", but also using words that I cannot reprint or I would be banned. At least two of us reported this behaviour, but nothing was done. That toon was still playing months later, and talking to other people related similar stories of his antics in other groups. I understand that you can't ban people from he said/she said reports, but if you get several of them from unrelated people, there should be some recourse and consequences.

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