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  1. #21
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonko_the_sane View Post
    Really, a seperate server for UCG would be all that is needed. They could auto-collect stats from that server to see which quests are worth a closer look, as Wanessa states.
    I think that server is not needed. Sandbox on each server will be enough to allow players run new UGC quests with they favorite toons and gear

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art20/Epic8/Epic8 -> Rng10), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic8/Epic8)

  2. #22
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Couple things about this subject...

    a) Turbine does indeed use many 'custom' tools when creating dungeons. That would make this sort of system harder to implement initially. However, that 'hand crafted' approach they use is exactly the reason why content is so dang slow in coming out. Basic rule of programing is to make things re-usuable and quick to do that so next time around it is fast and easy. In other words, enforcing repeatable drag and drop design rules upon new dungeon elements (mobs, walls, whatever) would make new content design MUCH easier in the long run.

    b) Rewards...easy and no brainer solution here...give a base xp/min which is horrible for dungeons automatically upon completion and same with base chests of that level (poor chest/min return).

    c) Developers review high rated content produced by users and make changes to xp/min and chest number/locations/add named loot. Devs makes sure dungeon is upto snuff as far as perch points and such, maybe tweak some mobs here and there if they want or put a boss in and put their stamp of approval on it. IE, users create content but the rewards suck until/unless the devs do a balance pass on it.

    d) Tons of new content is produced and devs can release massive amounts of their own new content with easier to use dungeon creation tools compared to before...drawback is initial cost...and here I assume Turbine just does not bother like so many other things in the game where initial investment would have made a much better game long run
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  3. #23
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    b) Rewards...easy and no brainer solution here...give a base xp/min which is horrible for dungeons automatically upon completion and same with base chests of that level (poor chest/min return).
    Problem with this is that very very few people would run the quests then and you'd have a very poor system of initial upvotes on the content. Look at the eveningstar challenges for example.

  4. #24
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Problem with this is that very very few people would run the quests then and you'd have a very poor system of initial upvotes on the content. Look at the eveningstar challenges for example.
    I saw many LFM on Thelanis. More popular are Eveningstar chalenges.

    Eveningstar challenge gives me aprx 1500xp/min for first time and 550xp/min each repeat (3 stars achieved)

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art20/Epic8/Epic8 -> Rng10), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic8/Epic8)

  5. #25
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Problem with this is that very very few people would run the quests then and you'd have a very poor system of initial upvotes on the content. Look at the eveningstar challenges for example.
    Why ppls running Kobolt Assault with the worst XPs/min and one chest with standard loot on all difficults at 3-5 levels?

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art20/Epic8/Epic8 -> Rng10), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic8/Epic8)

  6. #26
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    I saw many LFM on Thelanis. More popular are Eveningstar chalenges.

    Eveningstar challenge gives me aprx 1500xp/min for first time and 550xp/min each repeat (3 stars achieved)
    Saw, is past tense, first they cut the xp, then the cloaks were obsoleted, and now the new quests give easier favor options. Even the first time bonus is pretty poor considering you can get 10k/min epic xp easy enough.

  7. #27
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    Why ppls running Kobolt Assault with the worst XPs/min and one chest with standard loot on all difficults at 3-5 levels?
    It's easy favor for tp farming.

  8. #28

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    saver
    Eliminate 'ninja' looting from DDO:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243939
    Bring teleport more inline with PnP:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=403747
    Player made quests can work in DDO:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=352498

  9. #29
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanesa View Post
    Why ppls running Kobolt Assault with the worst XPs/min and one chest with standard loot on all difficults at 3-5 levels?
    because it's fun. Killing kobolds never gets old.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradik_Losdar View Post
    saver
    Well apparently you can't edit previous posts on this new forum - so here is what I was going to post:

    I agree that UGC would be a big money maker for DDO - I made a very detailed post on a system that could be put into place that not onlt removed all possibliity of exploiting said content but also provided rewards - - for not only the players...but also the authors of outstanding submissions.

    See my sig below under "Player made content can work in DDO"....

    Edit: Nevermind, apparently the the new forums ate all past posts.
    Eliminate 'ninja' looting from DDO:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=243939
    Bring teleport more inline with PnP:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=403747
    Player made quests can work in DDO:http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=352498

  11. #31
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    IMO the foundry is the one major strength out of NWO. Not for XP gain, but for variety. It is something different. When the game becomes solely about numbers, perhaps we should take Yahtzee's advice and open up Excel and hold the down arrow until we say we have the most magnificent pair of pants ever.

    If you want to avoid breaking canon, introduce Wilma/Barney the Mind Flayer in House J that makes it basically a shared hallucination amongst the party.

    Given the option, even at low/no xp gain people may want to fight a vorpal death chicken instead of running rusted blades until they fall asleep again.

    People have been asking for the tower of terror where they fight multiple bosses in tandem, a system like this would/could allow that. If there were things for the players to do other than rehash the same quests they've been running for years and know backwards/forwards, then that might buy the devs more time to make more engrossing quests instead of the basically linear run, handing a scroll of untimely doom to a redshirt or sitting back and watching a lizard man taking the captive away even though the lizard man should've been stabbed enough to be 80% transparent.

  12. #32
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Problem with this is that very very few people would run the quests then and you'd have a very poor system of initial upvotes on the content. Look at the eveningstar challenges for example.
    I disagree with that. User created content in NWO is incredibly fun and it has junk rewards. Many players would run these types of quests, but only once each and review them just like in NWO.

    Great way to cut up the same old same old...run something new. DDO just has so little new to run put out per year that players have done it all once very very quickly...

    IE, many players ran the dumb evenignstar challenges at least once...even with junk rewards and not exactly the highest of player reviews for them.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoRinNoSho View Post
    IMO the foundry is the one major strength out of NWO. Not for XP gain, but for variety. It is something different. When the game becomes solely about numbers, perhaps we should take Yahtzee's advice and open up Excel and hold the down arrow until we say we have the most magnificent pair of pants ever.

    If you want to avoid breaking canon, introduce Wilma/Barney the Mind Flayer in House J that makes it basically a shared hallucination amongst the party.

    Given the option, even at low/no xp gain people may want to fight a vorpal death chicken instead of running rusted blades until they fall asleep again.

    People have been asking for the tower of terror where they fight multiple bosses in tandem, a system like this would/could allow that. If there were things for the players to do other than rehash the same quests they've been running for years and know backwards/forwards, then that might buy the devs more time to make more engrossing quests instead of the basically linear run, handing a scroll of untimely doom to a redshirt or sitting back and watching a lizard man taking the captive away even though the lizard man should've been stabbed enough to be 80% transparent.
    The foundry doesn't save NWO nothing but a complete rebuild will do that no matter how much variety you add to a boring game with bad game play its still going to be bad and boring there will just be more of it.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  14. #34
    Community Member ssgcmwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    because it's fun. Killing kobolds never gets old.
    Kobold still hate you!
    UDR Loot Rules:
    1) No griefing people for pulling loot that dropped in their name
    2) When rolling, classes for which the item is "useful" get +10 to the roll
    example: Wiz and Barb both roll on a Torc, the barb saying "I'm TRing into an arcane next week"
    Wiz gets +10 on his roll

  15. #35
    Community Member ssgcmwatson's Avatar
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    I used to love games that would have fan-made missions available - it was a great way to extend the life of the game, and some fan missions were better than originals (anyone old enough to remember Thief?).

    Turbine could release mission tools but leave out options for XP or loot. We play for the fun of playing, and vote on the mission's quality when done (1 vote per account). Missions with a high run rate and high vote average get reviewed by Turbine staff - they get any necessary tweaks, XP and loot are placed, and it becomes an actual mission.
    UDR Loot Rules:
    1) No griefing people for pulling loot that dropped in their name
    2) When rolling, classes for which the item is "useful" get +10 to the roll
    example: Wiz and Barb both roll on a Torc, the barb saying "I'm TRing into an arcane next week"
    Wiz gets +10 on his roll

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    It's a bad idea and will never work here
    I disagree, a foundry is a great idea and would be hard to implement. Anything worth having is often hard to get or make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    ... but most agree the Huge amount of dev time that would be required would be better spent elsewhere on more useful and more universally appealing things
    Most of whom? Kobolds? Based on what I have seen devs spend their time on, often unrequested or unwanted changes, I stopped worrying about how the devs spend their time long ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    *snip*
    Good points, well said. I will add this, and it will be unpopular: a Foundry could work and is worth Turbine's investment, the key being you make people pay for it. Multiple access levels - one for DMs (by dungeon level, for example) and one for players (also tiered by level). You do have to balance real money pay against proper level of participation but that is sliding scale. Implemented well, the required oversight on Turbine's part would be manageable and, more importantly, profitable. They could start a set-up and systematically add to it this way - allow level 1-4 creation and then work their way up with more dynamic tools and access.

    Yes, it would be hard at initial onset to set up the system, but in the long run, I think it would be a key to the game's revitalization and would attract many new players and bring many, many players back.
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- years & still spawning kobolds
    Who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hafeal View Post
    I disagree, a foundry is a great idea and would be hard to implement. Anything worth having is often hard to get or make.



    Most of whom? Kobolds? Based on what I have seen devs spend their time on, often unrequested or unwanted changes, I stopped worrying about how the devs spend their time long ago.



    Good points, well said. I will add this, and it will be unpopular: a Foundry could work and is worth Turbine's investment, the key being you make people pay for it. Multiple access levels - one for DMs (by dungeon level, for example) and one for players (also tiered by level). You do have to balance real money pay against proper level of participation but that is sliding scale. Implemented well, the required oversight on Turbine's part would be manageable and, more importantly, profitable. They could start a set-up and systematically add to it this way - allow level 1-4 creation and then work their way up with more dynamic tools and access.

    Yes, it would be hard at initial onset to set up the system, but in the long run, I think it would be a key to the game's revitalization and would attract many new players and bring many, many players back.
    Disagree and see little incentive for turbine to invest the huge amount of time and money this would take if it would even be possible at all given the custom tool set they use and all for little return IMHO as I have seen no user generated content in any game that I would pay for and having content to sell is the only way turbine would do such.

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

  18. #38
    Community Member Wanesa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Disagree and see little incentive for turbine to invest the huge amount of time and money ...
    It depends, how much tools they will allow. In the first phase, there can be very simple editor allowing to put monsters and chests into an existing land or dungeon and to write own scripts, dialogs and objectives. This can't be more difficult than rewrite current enhancement system for every class and race. Later, they can introduce tools to create new lands (editing heightmap) or dungeons (using predesigned fragmens), putting other objects there (trees, buildings) and make land live through some simplified scripting language (pull two lewers overthere to open that door).

    I also suggest to allow to access the editor for players that capped max level (or unlocked by the favor) with any character and for TPs of course. Good adventures (chains, campaigns) can be sold as new adventure packs sharing profit with the author (in TPs or discount on VIP subscription). There can be a lot of business models how to make profit on this feature.

    Many ppls are naturally creative. Just look around, there are a lot of tools created by the users - ddowiki, crafting planners, ED planners, character planners, etc.

    Thelanis: Shewind the Airbender (Sorc20/Epic5 -> Bard20/Epic8 -> Rog20/Epic8/Epic2 -> Harper_FvS20/Epic4 -> Art20/Epic8/Epic8 -> Rng10), Azaxe (Rog18/Wiz2 -> Sorc20/Epic8/Epic8)

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Disagree and see little incentive for turbine to invest the huge amount of time and money this would take if it would even be possible at all given the custom tool set they use and all for little return IMHO as I have seen no user generated content in any game that I would pay for and having content to sell is the only way turbine would do such.
    *shrug* We will agree to disagree then.

    I think many players would pay for access toa Foundry type environment in DDO - IF, and that is a big IF, it can be done right. It could also be prfotibale and would need to be.

    The reality is that DDO will never produce content on a scale that rivals other games because WB is not putting money into it to make that happen. A vicious circle. DDO, though, if it could successfully tap into the players' creativity, could vastly increase content output. While user generated content might not always thrill your play style, not all dev created content does at this point anyway. Jumping to the conclusion that there would be no user generated content worth paying for is, imho, a reactionary statement and not one meant to be taken literally.
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- years & still spawning kobolds
    Who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hafeal View Post
    *shrug* We will agree to disagree then.

    I think many players would pay for access toa Foundry type environment in DDO - IF, and that is a big IF, it can be done right. It could also be prfotibale and would need to be.

    The reality is that DDO will never produce content on a scale that rivals other games because WB is not putting money into it to make that happen. A vicious circle. DDO, though, if it could successfully tap into the players' creativity, could vastly increase content output. While user generated content might not always thrill your play style, not all dev created content does at this point anyway. Jumping to the conclusion that there would be no user generated content worth paying for is, imho, a reactionary statement and not one meant to be taken literally.
    No saying there will be little to no user content worth playing is from playing games with that type of content and seeing little worth even trying for a nano second and over 35 years of pnp seeing a few hundred gms all who thought they were much more creative and entertaining then they really were. I tried the foundry stuff in NWO I wouldnt pay a dime for any of it of course a large part of that is the game itself but there was zero user generated stuff for the orginal NW that I would have paid for either.

    Allowing User generated content would cause many more problems then it would solve

    The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE

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