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  1. #21
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Yes, it is all my fault.

    I am to blame.

    Thos 20+ years of writing software on Microsoft platforms, in multiple languages, and multiple business sectors did nothing but feed my false confidence in knowing how computers work, the inner workings of system APIs, and methods to writing reliable, and fairly bug-free code. In retrospect, this was nowhere near enough time to learn such concepts. I can see where proffering advice and opinions on this subject could be considered sheer arrogence and an act of unmitigated gall.

    I...I...feel so...ashamed.



    (sob)
    Now I know who to blame for Windows ME

  2. #22
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myliftkk_v2 View Post
    I'm sure you know, but in some development circles, that would be akin to you manning the Death Star.
    You have no idea...

  3. #23
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Now I know who to blame for Windows ME
    Hey, Windows ME worked fine, just as long as you didn't install anything on it.

    Aside from that, it worked flawlessly.


    (As a side note, I used Windows ME for about 2 years with zero problems with it, until I installed an app that - for some reason - screwed the system so royally that I had to wipe everything and re-install.)

  4. #24
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    And most importantly, how did everyone and their grandmother become self proclaimed experts on coding? Am I the only person here on the forums who wouldn't know what to do if I were told "fix the bugs"?
    Not everybody. Please exclude me from your generalization. Some people , however, might be. But since I cannot look into heads and/or read minds I won't bother about such things. These are hypothetical discussions, which lead to nowhere.

    That aside I experience problems with general gameplay and , for example, descriptive text not applicable. Things, which are the only knowledge base for IT-challenged people like me, do not work, which is confirmed by lists such as ''Known issues''.

    Loading screen after loading screen, bottle neck acccess points like the Evening Star cavern instead of shortcuts like in ToD, Twilight Forge and - unbelievable, but true - Tangleroot to questgivers or important NPCs... all these medium annoying details are added to minor malfunctions like guildship navigator menu not closing after exiting a guildship, scroll bars jumping back up after removing ingredients or collectables out of the bags, ladder bugs, annoying jumping physics in certain quests, Palemaster Aura depleting spell absorption items, not being able to turn in stacks of crafting essences instead 1:1 click....

    Everything I listed is blocking an easy mult-TR grind, mostly affecting just those players. And since mult-TR is the only longterm motivation in DDO besides crafting, these little malfunctions become one major issue in their total. Turbine now is forced to release new content after new content and the dev.s seem to have no time for gameplay improvement.

    A vicious circle. But nevertheless a reason for some to turn into haters. And looking at my spontaneous list above I understand them.

    p.s.:
    So far, the only improvements for accessing outer areas was a stupid Teleporter for Inspired Quarters... really? That was such a fail... in my opinion, of course.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 05-31-2013 at 03:34 PM.
    Characters on Orien:
    Wanzer/ Klingtanz/ Incanta Superior/ Mercantus

  5. #25
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Hey, Windows ME worked fine, just as long as you didn't install anything on it.

    Aside from that, it worked flawlessly.


    (As a side note, I used Windows ME for about 2 years with zero problems with it, until I installed an app that - for some reason - screwed the system so royally that I had to wipe everything and re-install.)
    Thanks I really did lol at this. =D

  6. #26
    Community Member vegabond1969's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    There are a lot of factors that change the personality of the Masses.

    I started out with only the 3.5 knowledge I had when I first started in '06. I learned many lessons some taught and some by hard knocks.

    I myself turned around to teach others and treated DDO as a past time and not an extension of work. Mainly because at the end of the day does it really matter if you ran a Quest 12 times in an hour? personally I enjoy meeting people both those that have been around a long time and those fresh off the boat.

    The -10% haters were off their rockers when that whole craze started, rest assured everyone has taken a death or two that has played long enough. But when XP trumps Fun it is really time to re-examine your gaming philosophy.
    I used to be like this myself. When the LRMs were full and no one put byoh or class type restrictions on them, that was fun. My wife and I love this game, but after the MotU came out we needed a break, too many screwed up groups that wanted the perfect build. A lot of things both in game and here on the forums contributed to that little vacation. Need a rogue, get a hireling. Need a healer, get a hireling. Playing a ranger, get lost. Not a warforged monk/wiz build get lost. On the forums it was blah blah blah this game sucks, etc etc.

    So I restarted my sub and even went so far as buying the new expansion on pre-order. That's how much faith I have in DDO and how much I enjoy it. I can understand the anger from some people about the current state of the game, hell you should of seen my rage posts when they brought out hirelings and took away perma effects like blindness and disease. However, posting ten posts a day or so screaming at the devs isn't gonna help. The servers seem to reflect that. I never once thought I would confuse Khyber or Argo for Wayfinder, but I did yesterday when I first logged in.

    It used to be fun to group up with other players, run a quest n/h/e if need be and move on. Now, it has to be elite for bb and move on. No optionals, no conquest or ransack, just get to the end of the quest, kill the boss, repeat next quest. That's great for those that want to jump straight to the end of the game then howl about how badly it is. Sometimes the journey is more fun than the destination. That's how I play, maybe if others did too they wouldn't be in such a state here on the forums. /shrug.
    If you have a group with only DPS in it and are shouting "LFM, need healer and tank"; you aren't Looking for More, you're Looking for Group.

  7. #27
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    Though I do agree with the OP, I do find that there are a lot of things that make this game difficult to enjoy sometimes. I don't often rant or rave about the things like guild decay, xp loss, not enough xp from quests, armor sets not working, I don't get too upset about quests bugging out (I just exit, re-enter and try to play around the bug, or I wait and do other quests).

    As far as a community, I don't judge players to what I see on forums. When in groups there are some real nice people. It is nice to share the wealth of knowledge and I do also try to be patient. Not always easy though when someone just blindly does whatever they want regardless of the group. I do tend to zerg ahead but do tell others to stay with the group if they cannot handle the content solo. Sometimes I am just completing an objective or frankly just get lost and am trying to make my way back. I am generous with gear and loot to players that seem to be under prepared. I have often ran to the AH and bought someone a GFL item or stat or skill item if they need. The few quests that I know well, I lead and show the short cuts, and discuss the different strategies that players use. I do often stray away from other long term players. So many now solo a lot of content and now when come back to raids they pull the same strategies and then blame the party for the wipe and don't realize that you cannot kite the world when you have 11 others trying to work as a team. "I CAN SOLO ELITE" is so cliche'. My response is who can't. I don't consider anything about soloing relevant to how good or bad a character or their gear is. If you are in group, be a team player or don't group.

    I too wish the toxicity of the forums would subside slightly. However I tend to dislike how bad Turbine as a whole manages problems though. They make drastic changes and either aren't up front or fully honest about them or just ignore the posts for days or even weeks. I do sympathize with Dev's and do think that overall they do their best. However if they were more transparent, treated customers as citizens (the money and time we spend in a mmo is similar to voting). Take a lesson from WOW, they lost over 1million players in a month after their last expansion. Though they enticed a lot of fresh players, the amount that left was astronomical. I am not a doom or gloomer and if I ever stop playing I will not make some dramatic post about it. I will just go do other things in life, may or may not come back once in a while. Who knows. But while I am here I want to play a game that progresses evenly that doesn't make past efforts worthless.

    I do believe that there were a lot less complaints with MOTU than with what is going to be thrown at us. A business model that does not fully respect its customer base is just not ideal. though there were quite a few bugs with it. I do tend to think that they rush out content. There have been a lot of promises that never came through. Crafting was suppose to go up to lvl 200 with all bound shards now being able to be unbound. promises of additions to crafting isn't crucial so most just forgive and move on. Then there were hundreds of simple spelling errors, mislabeling of items and things, table errors above creatures instead of their names, quests named "enter quest name here". It only took them 3-4 months to fix those things.

    They give us a major update (18) with 12 hours notice. It is filled with major bugs that make some of my characters unable to do quests that they could do before. No big deal, I just play other characters. However there seems to be a lot of criticism because players as a whole are uncertain of what is to come. I think that people welcome stability and are hesitant for change. Change is good, balance is good, but change for the sake of change is ridiculous. But now we have potions of wonder with new effects, and that magic jingle when you open a chest, augment slots that function better but overall don't add much until lvl 20. The clear augments are worthless. Some things are just not balanced if you look at their enhancement lvl on crafting they just don't add up (hvy fort min.lvl 8, but a +6 stat is min.lvl 20). Gear itself with augment slots are limited. All colors of augments should be found on all types of gear. Yes make it more rare or whatever, but there is no reason why a ring couldn't have a blue slot.

    Many people talk about spending money on a DDO and comparing it to movies and other forms of entertainment.

    Well imagine you pay your 8 or 10 dollars for a movie and after you have been watching the promos for 10 minutes, they tell you that the movie isn't working and that you cannot watch it. They don't give you a refund or a new ticket. Or say you bought a special 1 month pass that gave you limitless movies for that month and then decided to go on holiday and shut the whole cinema down for 1 week. Or during that movie ushers came in and forced everyone out into the hall for a few minutes but kept the movie going so you missed out on the best parts.

    I love DDO, I have never played any other MMO, I don't compare things to WOW or NW like other people. I just want decent customer service. I want Devs who post to be professional. Kobolds Hate boxes, is not the same as there is an issue with hate generation causing lag. If we are not to comment on Turbine or its Devs then they better be beyond reproach for their professionalism. I got a reprimand for criticizing a dev that was sarcastic. Perhaps if he wasn't sarcastic I wouldn't have commented. Yes, I admit that I can be an azz at times. Sometimes I say things without thinking them through, I get defensive and argumentative, it is easy when you are anonymous. I would be a lot more polite and respectful if we were all face to face and you knew how I was. I think that is human nature. However, I do feel that some Dev's and moderators should not be allowed to post if they themselves cannot leave their sarcasm at the door. Or allow us to call them on it.

    Ok, I have added my rant to even more than the OP for which I am sorry.

  8. #28
    Community Member tralfaz81's Avatar
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    Like a few have mentioned, the community has become a bit jaded. But to be fair, get on the advice or trade channel on any server and shout out wanting to know something or needing something specific and I think you'll still find a slew of people ready to help you.
    "Shut up and die like a wizard"

  9. #29
    Community Member toaftoaf's Avatar
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    Default amen my brotha

    this thread, is one of the best ihave seen in awhile


    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    Many of us that have been here for 6+ years are just a little upset that Turbine has gone in the direction that they have. Back in ’08 or so, we were all VIP and Turbine would give us their all. Our $15/month got us everything. We received “full game entertainment”.

    Now (even if you pay $15/month), you have to pay more if you want the “full game entertainment”.

    I am also not worried about having to pay $30 for an expansion. This is not even the biggest concern about. My question comes as to where all the P2W has gone? If Turbine improved the game from all the money, then we are all good, but from all that I have seen, it has not happened.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    Many of us that have been here for 6+ years are just a little upset that Turbine has gone in the direction that they have. Back in ’08 or so, we were all VIP and Turbine would give us their all. Our $15/month got us everything. We received “full game entertainment”.

    Now (even if you pay $15/month), you have to pay more if you want the “full game entertainment”.

    I am also not worried about having to pay $30 for an expansion. This is not even the biggest concern about. My question comes as to where all the P2W has gone? If Turbine improved the game from all the money, then we are all good, but from all that I have seen, it has not happened.
    Your assumption is that all the changes is so that Turbine can reap in huge profits. This is probably false. All the changes are probably because their previous business model was a complete failure and they are now struggling to keep the lights on.

    There's this assumption from average people with no business knowledge that if you just create this great product and love your fans, they will reward you with money. This isn't actually the case. Businesses have to think of ways to separate their customers from their money, because no matter what people claim, they will never give willingly.

  11. #31
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Your assumption is that all the changes is so that Turbine can reap in huge profits. This is probably false. All the changes are probably because their previous business model was a complete failure and they are now struggling to keep the lights on.

    There's this assumption from average people with no business knowledge that if you just create this great product and love your fans, they will reward you with money. This isn't actually the case. Businesses have to think of ways to separate their customers from their money, because no matter what people claim, they will never give willingly.
    I may be the minority, but I gave $15/month for 5 years. I have a minor in econ, so I understand the business stand point. If the business that you speak of is to give less and take more from the customer, then your business will not last long.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  12. #32
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I may be the minority, but I gave $15/month for 5 years. I have a minor in econ, so I understand the business stand point. If the business that you speak of is to give less and take more from the customer, then your business will not last long.
    This is exactly what I fear DDO is headed for. As a econ minor you certainly will know about the product lifecycle model? Let´s asume for a second DDO is in the Cash-Cow stage. They are making the most money out of it without improving the product much.

    This of course will head DDO into the poor dog state. Then we will see if there will be a DDO2 or Turbine /WB will cancel the whole D&D MMO licence.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I may be the minority, but I gave $15/month for 5 years. I have a minor in econ, so I understand the business stand point. If the business that you speak of is to give less and take more from the customer, then your business will not last long.
    This is clearly wrong. Turbine previously used a unique MMO business model and has now switched to the industry standard. It seems that the previous model is the failed one, and the current one is the winning one. There's a reason it's an industry standard. And if the industry standard is a failed business model, then someone like Turbine who offered an alternative to that model should have reaped huge rewards.

  14. #34
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    This is exactly what I fear DDO is headed for. As a econ minor you certainly will know about the product lifecycle model? Let´s asume for a second DDO is in the Cash-Cow stage. They are making the most money out of it without improving the product much.

    This of course will head DDO into the poor dog state. Then we will see if there will be a DDO2 or Turbine /WB will cancel the whole D&D MMO licence.
    The sad thing about this is, is that if I say this then I am labeled as a "doomsayer that should just leave". The writing is on the wall and people refuse to accept it. By no means am I saying that DDO will be dead by the end of the year, but just wait. We will have an expansion in December that costs $50 basic and only offers 3 quests (but you get a snowflake companion).

    People quit playing or you see more and more people that are frustrated and people wonder why.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  15. #35
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    This is clearly wrong. Turbine previously used a unique MMO business model and has now switched to the industry standard. It seems that the previous model is the failed one, and the current one is the winning one. There's a reason it's an industry standard. And if the industry standard is a failed business model, then someone like Turbine who offered an alternative to that model should have reaped huge rewards.
    Go post again why the LFM's are down or why you always run into a-holes when you do join a pug.

    People are are either walking away from DDO or taking their frustration of the game out on puggers.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

    LEGION

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    Go post again why the LFM's are down or why you always run into a-holes when you do join a pug.

    People are are either walking away from DDO or taking their frustration of the game out on puggers.
    This is a huge leap. And honestly, years of life experience have taught me that jerks are just jerks, no matter the excuse they use to rationalize their behavior. The failing of Turbine in this regard is they've allowed the behavior to run rampant for too long instead of handing out suspensions and bans.

  17. #37
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    This is a huge leap. And honestly, years of life experience have taught me that jerks are just jerks, no matter the excuse they use to rationalize their behavior. The failing of Turbine in this regard is they've allowed the behavior to run rampant for too long instead of handing out suspensions and bans.
    Turbines failure is death xp penalties to groups and massive tr xp curves that incentivize being a jerk.

  18. #38
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    This is a huge leap. And honestly, years of life experience have taught me that jerks are just jerks, no matter the excuse they use to rationalize their behavior. The failing of Turbine in this regard is they've allowed the behavior to run rampant for too long instead of handing out suspensions and bans.
    So me not wanting to run with a pug should be banable? Booting someone that does not meet the requirements set forth should warrant a suspension?

    I did not ask for the original death penalty to go away. This was Turbine's descison so that they would not lose players that were incompetent and died 25 times in a quest.

    I did not ask for dungeon scaling. This was Turbine's descision. If this means that I can solo a quest quicker than a full party can run it, thank Turbine.

    I can be a jerk all day long, but it is as you said Turbine's is at fault.
    Flabby-Flaber-Flabo--Heifer-Oinks

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  19. #39
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
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    Default I have found

    I have found four types of forum posters exist today.

    Some are 'Fanboys'. Folks who always show up to defend Turbine regardless of how badly they screw up.

    Some are 'Disillusioned'. Folks who used to love the game unconditionally but see things getting worse. That tends to leave them focused on the bad rather than the good.

    A third group of really obnoxious posters tend to have very recent join dates. They either got banned or do not want to risk their 'real' account so they make new ones and troll away. These tend to be the ones that really derail things and start the flame wars. As time goes on it will be harder and harder to spot these people because new join dates will grow older.

    The last group seems to be somewhere between the first two. They can go either way depending on the topic.

    The forums used to be full of folks who weathered the 'dark times' of no content and had kinda forged themselves into an 'us against the world' (or at the very least vs an evil games publisher). That made most folks go out of their way to help people they felt were just like themselves. Especially at the very beginning of the F2P launch because they saw 'their' game growing and it was like spitting in the eye of the unnamed publisher.

    I think the only way to 'fix' the forums at this rate is to either restrict new accounts in some way (to remove #3) or find another outside enemy everyone dislikes equally. I don't see either happening so I expect things to remain bad. Some people would say 'Turbine could fix things' but that seems unlikely to me because:

    1) There is now a built in segment of folks that want things to fail so they will be right and
    2) Turbine has little incentive to drop everything while they make a massive reduction in bugs because hardly anyone will buy a 'Bug Elimination' Xpac.

    In closing

    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    I’m only nerfing you now so I can buff you later.

  20. #40
    Community Member AzB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Turbines failure is death xp penalties to groups and massive tr xp curves that incentivize being a jerk.
    That's pretty silly. It's Turbine's fault that people are jerks?

    That's like blaming forks for people being overweight, or a knife for a murder.

    I hate to tell you, but it's people taking this game way too seriously that cause them to be jerks.

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