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  1. #181
    Community Member Superhanns's Avatar
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    Default The voice of common sense

    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    Especially when removing decay is the easiest thing in the world. There is only one simple switch of a value in either one variable (AccountThatCountForDecay=0) or one formula (Decay=(DecayBase*0)). And that could be done by the intern in about 10 seconds.

    I will happily provide the ten cents this costs in manpower!
    Its a kick in the teeth to the level 100 guilds to remove it, even getting them to consider it is a waste of dev time.
    Cant you even keep a guild above 62 for your 30 resist and +2s and be content about it?

    If you cant make your guild level 62-100 by recruiting the right people and/or grinding yourself then its your fault not the systems, i see guilds daily on argo that are 100 or in the 80s-90s.. they grind it. your idea is selfish

    Im not being biased here, our guild is 68 and the 2 of us grinded for it and will get it above 70 and keep it there, thats just 2 people.

    Stop trying to take the challenge and fun out the game bit by bit, it consistently gets easier in other areas because of people moaning, what about the people that dont moan? they get to suffer your whiney voice and game changes as devs bend over backwards to please your silly ideas, keep your 10 cents it costs for the manpower.
    Last edited by Superhanns; 06-04-2013 at 03:23 AM.
    Completionist clonk on argonnessen.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhanns View Post
    Its a kick in the teeth to the level 100 guilds to remove it, even getting them to consider it is a waste of dev time.
    Cant you even keep a guild above 62 for your 30 resist and +2s and be content about it?

    If you cant make your guild level 62-100 by recruiting the right people and/or grinding yourself then its your fault not the systems, i see guilds daily on argo that are 100 or in the 80s-90s.. they grind it. your idea is selfish

    Im not being biased here, our guild is 68 and the 2 of us grinded for it and will get it above 70 and keep it there, thats just 2 people.

    Stop trying to take the challenge and fun out the game bit by bit, it consistently gets easier in other areas because of people moaning, what about the people that dont moan? they get to suffer your whiney voice and game changes as devs bend over backwards to please your silly ideas, keep your 10 cents it costs for the manpower.
    I can't remember the last time I saw a player actually advocating for keeping naked grind in the game. As for it being a challenge, the only challenge is to be able to put in the time.

    If you wanted some individual grind rewards, I wouldn't stand in your way. But I can't agree to keeping one of the game's basic social structures messed up for it. This abomination has caused enough grief among guilds members already and it's time for it to go. Either remove renown or remove the whole leveling system IMO, but something needs to be done to return guilds fully back to what they were before the whole level system was added.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I can't remember the last time I saw a player actually advocating for keeping naked grind in the game. As for it being a challenge, the only challenge is to be able to put in the time.

    If you wanted some individual grind rewards, I wouldn't stand in your way. But I can't agree to keeping one of the game's basic social structures messed up for it. This abomination has caused enough grief among guilds members already and it's time for it to go. Either remove renown or remove the whole leveling system IMO, but something needs to be done to return guilds fully back to what they were before the whole level system was added.
    I agree, I think any decay system is a barrier for new players trying to start their own guild - I think any changes Turbine makes to the formula will have negative consequences they can't predict - just get rid of it. For guilds like mine that have mostly casual players, I don't think it's right to expect us to boot our players and replace them with grinders. I don't invite people to the guild to optimize renown and never will. People are not commodities or a means for me to increase my guild level.

    This "competition" has nothing to do with skill and/or achievements. It is mostly driven by how many people you have, how much they play and how fast they play.

    I think the developers made a bad assumption when they assumed there were many 6-person guilds because people shunned/booted people to optimize the guild bonus. My experience is people *** less than 6 members add dual boxes to get up to 6 and not the other way around. This is to avoid the lower guild bonus for having too few people. In other words a family guild of 4 may add 2 dual boxes to get to 6 and they may not want to grow their guild for safety reasons to protect their teenage kids.

    Just let people group with who they want to group with in guild without penalizing them.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  4. #184
    Community Member Superhanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    I can't remember the last time I saw a player actually advocating for keeping naked grind in the game. As for it being a challenge, the only challenge is to be able to put in the time.

    If you wanted some individual grind rewards, I wouldn't stand in your way. But I can't agree to keeping one of the game's basic social structures messed up for it. This abomination has caused enough grief among guilds members already and it's time for it to go. Either remove renown or remove the whole leveling system IMO, but something needs to be done to return guilds fully back to what they were before the whole level system was added.
    This is the last ill say on the matter because of actually playing the game now but its not naked grind, i wasent even trying to grind and our guild hit 62, its somthing that happens as you play, you CHOOSE additionaly renown trophies as rewards if you feel like.. barely any grind at all in my opinion.

    second i agree partially with your arguement on social structures, i have compassion for those that get kicked from guilds because they went on vacation or some other thing, on the other hand why would you want in a guild like that anyway, get in one with friends and you no longer have a problem.
    some of them are half arsed players that wont contribute anything they have multi chars in multi guilds across different servers and log on with a stinking attitude, they need to be kicked by people who care about their own guild, its not all about level its about having fun and enjoying yourself/guildies

    A guild of friends wont kick you if you arent on as much as they would want.

    nothing needs to be removed, give devs a break will say one last time - their time is better spent on real bugs and real issues of improving this game
    Completionist clonk on argonnessen.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhanns View Post

    nothing needs to be removed, give devs a break will say one last time - their time is better spent on real bugs and real issues of improving this game
    This is a real issue for many people if you read the thread. How long can it take to remove decay. Multiplying by zero doesn't seem like a very hard change at all to me. If it keeps people playing the game and happier with the guild system it's a good thing worthy of the small amount of time it would take. I can't think of a single other quick change they can make that would reduce angst with the game.

    Congrats on being a completionist. This means you play a lot and play fast. Not everyone in this game grinds and there should be a place in this game for everyone. Grinding is rewarded enough in this game with past life feats and loot. There shouldn't be a penalty mechanism on top of all that for guilds that accept people that want to smell the roses and play slower.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  6. #186
    Community Member Superhanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    This is a real issue for many people if you read the thread. How long can it take to remove decay. Multiplying by zero doesn't seem like a very hard change at all to me. If it keeps people playing the game and happier with the guild system it's a good thing worthy of the small amount of time it would take. I can't think of a single other quick change they can make that would reduce angst with the game.

    Congrats on being a completionist. This means you play a lot and play fast. Not everyone in this game grinds and there should be a place in this game for everyone. Grinding is rewarded enough in this game with past life feats and loot. There shouldn't be a penalty mechanism on top of all that for guilds that accept people that want to smell the roses and play slower.
    taking a quick peek while i stealth a timed ambush in game:P

    This isent a real issue at all, its just people who want things handed to em while barely playing and thats not fair, if you want games like that mmoRPG's aren't for you - there is games without grind they arent mmoRPGs
    It will keep YOU happy and some flower sniffers in this thread happy and thats fine you want things your way and you might just get it, it dont make it right though and my voice is to say whats right and logical nothing more (or less)

    As for completionist, yes i am, over 3 years put into my character grinding (because thats what RPG's are about, aspecially mmo ones. and without changing characters and i did it with dedication, thats fair its good but it deserves no praise.
    Completionist clonk on argonnessen.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhanns View Post
    taking a quick peek while i stealth a timed ambush in game:P

    This isent a real issue at all, its just people who want things handed to em while barely playing and thats not fair, if you want games like that mmoRPG's aren't for you - there is games without grind they arent mmoRPGs
    It will keep YOU happy and some flower sniffers in this thread happy and thats fine you want things your way and you might just get it, it dont make it right though and my voice is to say whats right and logical nothing more (or less)

    As for completionist, yes i am, over 3 years put into my character grinding (because thats what RPG's are about, aspecially mmo ones. and without changing characters and i did it with dedication, thats fair its good but it deserves no praise.
    Again, congrats on completionist it's a great feat. It seems like the real issue is that people are trying to prevent others from getting things for no reason at all. Many of the people that call us complainers now were actively requesting that decay be reduced/removed prior to the Oct 2012 change.

    I am a level 80 guild and don't really care about the level 85 ship much. If Turbine doesn't want me to have it I don't mind not spending real $ on it. My concern is for the new players and casual players that are unable to get things simply because they play slower than vets and grinders. Renown is earned and you can't get it any other way. People should be allowed to keep what they earn. I find a mechanism that takes it away unnecessary since it harshly punishes those that play slower. Let people keep what they earn.

    A level 55 guild stuck at level 55 would gain 2 levels in an entire year if decay was removed completely. I don't see what you and others have against a casual guild gaining 2 levels in a year when the current system allows a guild of 400 to gain 30 levels in less than a year with the same level of activity.

    Your opinion is as valid as any, but it doesn't make any sense as it's not rewarding anything good, it's punishing people for a play style that shouldn't be punished.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  8. #188
    Community Member Superhanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Again, congrats on completionist it's a great feat. It seems like the real issue is that people are trying to prevent others from getting things for no reason at all. Many of the people that call us complainers now were actively requesting that decay be reduced/removed prior to the Oct 2012 change.

    I am a level 80 guild and don't really care about the level 85 ship much. If Turbine doesn't want me to have it I don't mind not spending real $ on it. My concern is for the new players and casual players that are unable to get things simply because they play slower than vets and grinders. Renown is earned and you can't get it any other way. People should be allowed to keep what they earn. I find a mechanism that takes it away unnecessary since it harshly punishes those that play slower. Let people keep what they earn.

    A level 55 guild stuck at level 55 would gain 2 levels in an entire year if decay was removed completely. I don't see what you and others have against a casual guild gaining 2 levels in a year when the current system allows a guild of 400 to gain 30 levels in less than a year with the same level of activity.

    Your opinion is as valid as any, but it doesn't make any sense as it's not rewarding anything good, it's punishing people for a play style that shouldn't be punished.

    Your kind but let me say, first half of them lives was done as a flower sniffer and back then i was in a guild of flower sniffers, around 6-8 during the time (and still friends with them) and we still hit L80 back then, this is way back before xp tomes or challenges or destinies, it was easy, they were a fine bunch, again now not a flower sniffer we are a 2 man guild we are L68 and guildie plays between 1-2 hours on weekdays, i play more ofcourse

    its really not the great big grind your making it out to be, just time and dedication, and no, people should not get things for free because then it feels like theres no reason to play, when they start to is when i quietly leave to a different game.

    Also would like to note, if a guild of flower sniffers play so little that they cant even get 2 levels in a year of playing WITHOUT renown decay.... should their voice even be considered?
    Completionist clonk on argonnessen.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhanns View Post
    Also would like to note, if a guild of flower sniffers play so little that they cant even get 2 levels in a year of playing WITHOUT renown decay.... should their voice even be considered?
    It should matter if Turbine wishes to keep them as players and buyers.

    How can anyone argue that decay is good after all the harm its done to this game. Turbine shouldn't keep decay so a few people can feel more uber.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by unacceptable View Post
    It should matter if Turbine wishes to keep them as players and buyers.

    How can anyone argue that decay is good after all the harm its done to this game. Turbine shouldn't keep decay so a few people can feel more uber.
    Where else are they going to go? What other game hands casual players all the goodies that other players work for?

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Where else are they going to go? What other game hands casual players all the goodies that other players work for?
    Hello Kitty online?

  12. #192
    Community Member Superhanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unacceptable View Post
    It should matter if Turbine wishes to keep them as players and buyers.

    How can anyone argue that decay is good after all the harm its done to this game. Turbine shouldn't keep decay so a few people can feel more uber.
    Im not TRYING to argue that its good, i AM arguing that devs time is better spent on other things.. as i keep repeating as people like yourself dont seem to get what im saying and how renown isent even really an issue

    It not about feeling uber, its you who wants the renown so you can feel uber, thats the reality of your post.

    as for them paying yea sure they are paying, good for them, but the game without the real dedicated grinders and players would be a ghost town and those flowersniffers wouldent be paying for a ghost town. what im getting at is why should a flower sniffer come on and start dictating to the devs because they want things their way, give logical reasons
    Completionist clonk on argonnessen.

  13. #193
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    I want a system that's fair to all guild sizes, and so doesn't cause resentment among some guilds. Dissatisfaction that may contribute to people getting fed up with the game. Therefore I think it would be a good thing to address.

    Secondly, a zero decay means that what I've worked for isn't taken away again. I don't lose xp while not playing an alt for a while, nor do I lose past lives on those I'm not playing atm. So I don't see why I should lose guild renown, either.

    And as for a motivational factor or minigame for the guild enthusiasts... well, make a leaderboard and they can have all the fun they want. Without inconveniencing the rest of us.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  14. #194
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    What am I signing?

    A discussion with turbine about future renown changes?
    /signed

    That being said, I see that guild decay is the central point of the debate... as it stands now, guild decay is measured by guild level over time, regardless of who is logged in or not. That means if a 4 person family guild takes a 2 week vacation, they get 2 weeks of decay...

    I think taking away guild decay would be a huge mistake... one could assume that every medium to large guilds would hit 100 in a blink of an eye.

    Perhaps what we need to see is a measure of guild decay that focuses on the people who are online, rather than those who are not online. I'm not advocating this as dogma... this is just a thought...

    Decay as a combination of = [Guild Level] AND [Character online between level 5-25] AND [The number of people online at that time] AND [A Max Decay Cap], where as:

    A. Guild level is treated as live, by level, scaled down (perhaps by 75%?) to allow for more contributing factors to guild decay.
    B1. Characters between levels 1-3 that are online do not contribute to guild decay (I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure impressive trophies drop very rarely at these levels)
    B2. A character online between levels 4-25 would contribute to guild decay. I'm not advocating attaching a character level to guild decay.
    ---Point to mention: There shouldn't be anything wrong with a user farming renown and then logging into a level 2 character for the purpose of bypassing guild decay... because they could easily bypass guild decay simply by logging off)
    C. The number of characters online at any given time can increase (or amplify) the guild decay. If there are more people online, allow for more decay.
    D. A Max Decay cap may be in place to limit the amount of maximum decay to current live standards.

    Not sure what you guys think. It's a rough idea, I'm sure someone could make various changes to it, but I think that it could help some smaller guilds, and I would have to say that larger guilds (including my own) are getting renown too easily. We went from 70 to 83 in approximately 4 months, so I would argue that decay (for larger guilds) should be ramped up at least a little.

    So again,
    /signed for the discussion.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhanns View Post
    your idea is selfish
    Not every player is actually interested in 24/7 EE gaming, nor neverending TR/zerg XP farming ; in fact, this sort of gameplay bores some players to tears

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Where else are they going to go? What other game hands casual players all the goodies that other players work for?
    Don't kid yourself. No game except Ddo has this horrid decay system or anything like it.

  17. #197
    Community Member Superhanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natashaelle View Post
    Not every player is actually interested in 24/7 EE gaming, nor neverending TR/zerg XP farming ; in fact, this sort of gameplay bores some players to tears
    Hello, i never said anything even remotely close to anything regardling EE gaming, or tr zerg xp..
    go back up and re-read my posts, have fun!
    Completionist clonk on argonnessen.

  18. #198
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    I said it when they released it Guild leveling is counter productive to building guilds....only the largest fastest growing guilds attract more people as the public gaming community is inherently lazy and if someone can just jump into a lvl 50+ guild why bother with a new guild or smaller one. It killed recruitment for smaller guilds in almost every game guild levels are present in including world of warcraft and starwars

    My guild "Keepers of Io's Blood" is nearly lvl 30 with only myself and roommate playing in it for nearly two years. we have had a few come and go but they always jump ship to some brazilian rep farm guild as soon as they can find one with more "perks".

    Ive noticed game mechanics have gotten out of hand due to the addition of crazy overpowered artificers + ship buffs

    Artificers now can nearly solo every quest in the game including raids ( ive done tempest solo with mine)
    Quests used to say "balanced party required" now to me that just reads "switch to your arti for self heals traps and a small army of followers" let's face it once class of character can fill any slot on the board especially if the party is more then half WF. Arti's can range attack, spell cast, trap disable, open doors, self heal and buff like a bard on crack. the only thing an arti can't do is fly but im sure thats comming soon.

    so yes turbine needs to buck up and get with the program and kill off guild decay...thankfully my guild is to small for decay they also need to buck up and fix basic game functions before releasing shadowfell
    Tread not in the path of Dragons. For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup.

  19. #199
    Community Member Superhanns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by westerndragon207 View Post
    I said it when they released it Guild leveling is counter productive to building guilds....only the largest fastest growing guilds attract more people as the public gaming community is inherently lazy and if someone can just jump into a lvl 50+ guild why bother with a new guild or smaller one. It killed recruitment for smaller guilds in almost every game guild levels are present in including world of warcraft and starwars

    My guild "Keepers of Io's Blood" is nearly lvl 30 with only myself and roommate playing in it for nearly two years. we have had a few come and go but they always jump ship to some brazilian rep farm guild as soon as they can find one with more "perks".

    Ive noticed game mechanics have gotten out of hand due to the addition of crazy overpowered artificers + ship buffs

    Artificers now can nearly solo every quest in the game including raids ( ive done tempest solo with mine)
    Quests used to say "balanced party required" now to me that just reads "switch to your arti for self heals traps and a small army of followers" let's face it once class of character can fill any slot on the board especially if the party is more then half WF. Arti's can range attack, spell cast, trap disable, open doors, self heal and buff like a bard on crack. the only thing an arti can't do is fly but im sure thats comming soon.

    so yes turbine needs to buck up and get with the program and kill off guild decay...thankfully my guild is to small for decay they also need to buck up and fix basic game functions before releasing shadowfell
    well she was quoting somthing i said with somthing different so maybe she made a mistake?

    but anyway artis can solo well, so can monkchers, fvs, sorcs/wiz, fighter/barbarian if they are properly set up to self heal, i know this because ive done it on every class, artis arent over powered, they are powerful and it is easy for newbies to do well with them over say a barbarian wich takes work to setup. this is way off topic
    Completionist clonk on argonnessen.

  20. #200
    Community Member Arnez's Avatar
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    Back (close) to topic regarding Guild Decay ( and Turbine allocating resources to "fix" things):

    I ,for one, would rather they took the team responsible for more cosmetic pets and allocated those resources to addressing the guild decay problem.

    EVEN if it's a "We're working on it/ here's the 8 month update" or "Sorry small guilds- it's WAI- you just need to make friends."

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