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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Are there really people complaining about decay at lvl 50 ? Now come on ...
    For you and me, the decay at that level is not an issue. There are other kinds of players in this game, though. Some WHO don't play nearly as much, or do not play the right quests at the right difficulty for their level.

    The good thing about removing decay is that it will allow every kind of player the satisfaction of seeing progress.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  2. #162
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    If you remove decay, then every guild will be 100. What's the point then ?

    Some guilds worked hard to get to 70s, 80s, 90s, whatever, not getting majors and picking those impressives, maybe even buying renown pots, ransacking chests. I don't envy them, I would congratulate them on their progress, it meant something.

    Again, level SHOULD reward activity.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    If you remove decay, then every guild will be 100. What's the point then ?

    Some guilds worked hard to get to 70s, 80s, 90s, whatever, not getting majors and picking those impressives, maybe even buying renown pots, ransacking chests. I don't envy them, I would congratulate them on their progress, it meant something.

    Again, level SHOULD reward activity.
    At the moment, the guild system rewards size over activity.

    While I like the idea of the system rewarding activity, the outcome was detrimental to the game - players got kicked from large guilds and left the game. So it was, rightly, changed. Now we just need Turbine to take the last step and make the system fair for small guilds, too.

    If people want an activity leaderboard, by all means, let's have one. Total renown, toral renown per member, renown per week/month/year, whatever people can think of. Just get rid of decay.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    At the moment, the guild system rewards size over activity.
    I am very aware of that Dan, I am in similar guild as you ( lvl 80+, ~ 10 accounts, at least I think ), and I would support every post of yours, but you went from asking for "level the playing field" after the change to "remove decay completely" which I simply don't agree with.

    I'll leave it at that, so let's just agree to disagree .

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    I am very aware of that Dan, I am in similar guild as you ( lvl 80+, ~ 10 accounts, at least I think ), and I would support every post of yours, but you went from asking for "level the playing field" after the change to "remove decay completely" which I simply don't agree with.

    I'll leave it at that, so let's just agree to disagree .
    Well, I changed my position to accomodate the large guilds that were afraid I wanted the old system back. Which I don't.

    But I do honestly think that decay would be better off gone. Still, you're right - I do not think we'll agree on that.

    But I still welcome any input here, and in other threads. The more voices on the subject, the better - hopefully it will help us get a change. Any change to the better for small guilds would be good!
    It's definitely an N-word.

  6. #166
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    If you remove decay, then every guild will be 100. What's the point then ?

    Some guilds worked hard to get to 70s, 80s, 90s, whatever, not getting majors and picking those impressives, maybe even buying renown pots, ransacking chests. I don't envy them, I would congratulate them on their progress, it meant something.

    Again, level SHOULD reward activity.
    The points is to make Turbine money, if more people can achieve lvl 100 without fearing their "work" as you put it will be lost then more people will buy tp for that purpose. Another point is for customer satisfaction. Being lvl 100 does not mean anything, it is not some great achievement.

    It's part of the game that is being "blocked" to most of the playerbase because some few need to feel "special".

    It's that simple!


    Also your premise about activity is flawed. If activity equals more renown then a larger guild SHOULD get more done even if individually each member does less. Isn't that what we have now!
    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 06-03-2013 at 11:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    The points is to make Turbine money, if more people can achieve lvl 100 without fearing their "work" as you put it will be lost then more people will buy tp for that purpose.
    Second after I pressed submit, I knew it's not going to look good. "Common goal" then.
    Another point is for customer satisfaction. Being lvl 100 does not mean anything, it is not some great achievement.
    It means "little bit " I would say. These treads are so opinionated, argumentative and long, so it does matter to "some " people.
    It's part of the game that is being "blocked" to most of the playerbase because some few need to feel "special".
    No, it's not blocked, it's the same with raids, quests, difficulty, epic elite gear.
    Someone here said " Try harder and become better and you will see more of the game."
    It's ironic who needs to feel "special" here, what's the English word for that, entitled ?
    Isn't that what we have now!
    Nope.

  8. #168
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    The points is to make Turbine money, if more people can achieve lvl 100 without fearing their "work" as you put it will be lost then more people will buy tp for that purpose. Another point is for customer satisfaction. Being lvl 100 does not mean anything, it is not some great achievement.
    (...)
    There had been literarly 100s of posts suggesting new systems to satisfy the needs from all guild sizes, the needs from Turbine (money) and the needs from some players to get bragging rights - in the official thread. There would be several solutions like "all guilds may to level X without decay - fill in anything from lv. 80 to lv. 100" or "no decay until lv. 100, open end for levels" or the "reset leaderboards once a month" Suggestion. If Turbine wanted, they would have tons of good ideas to work on.

    I really would like to invite you and all other positive contributors here to join us on the official thread as well.

  9. #169
    Community Member Robai's Avatar
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    IMO:
    The more large guilds = the less pug runs = the less LFM's = the death of the game

    Now large guilds have almost no decay, and the large the guild the smaller decay.
    And since large guilds has almost no decay they do more blind invites and becomes even larger.

    The old decay system had a good balance.

    Actually I'm very surprised that people are still complaining about decay when there is almost no decay at all (unless you have very high level small guild, but such guilds shouldn't be high lvl if they are not active).

    The problem as I see it is that the larger the guild the faster it grows and the smaller decay (per person).

    If decay will be removed then every guild will be lvl 100.
    For example, active friends go to one guild, get it to lvl 100 then move to another guild and get it to lvl 100, and so on.
    Then please, tell me, what would be the meaning of guild level then?

    In other words, if you remove decay then you remove guild levels too, since all guilds will be same level (lvl 100) and there is no point to have such thing as guild level.

  10. #170
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    Second after I pressed submit, I knew it's not going to look good. "Common goal" then.

    It means "little bit " I would say. These treads are so opinionated, argumentative and long, so it does matter to "some " people.

    Everyone that posts in this thread is expressing an opinion and likes to argue as we don't all see things the same way. I do think the majority find this decay silly and therefore it should be removed

    No, it's not blocked, it's the same with raids, quests, difficulty, epic elite gear.

    Yes it is blocking content. ANYONE can try out a raid regardless of difficulty with varying success, there is no "requirements" other than being level 20 which anyone can easily and reasonably achieve. This is not the case with guild level when it comes to higher level guild and the perks this gives.

    Someone here said " Try harder and become better and you will see more of the game."

    I didn't read the whole thread so can't comment on this much.

    It's ironic who needs to feel "special" here, what's the English word for that, entitled ?

    There is nothing difficult to grasp here. The only ones that feel any entitlement is the "special snowflakes" that grind renown over and over and over for that lvl 100 guild ship. They feel they are special and are entitled to some "special status" like being the only ones with a level 100 guild ship.

    Nope.

    Then you are not seeing this properly if you really believe this. Look at guild like political groups. A smaller "group", with say 10 members will need to have each member knock at a hell of a lot more doors continuously to remain at the top than say a large political group that has 250 members. For the small group it will take much more "work" to be "known" compared to the large group. This is very heart of your "activity" premise
    Replies in green

    Frankly I have no problem with this, the problem I have is the loss of renown via decay, it's stupid and the only argument for it to stay is that the "special snowflakes" want their "special snowflake club" to be inaccessible to others.

    Quite frankly if a guild goes to lvl 100 takes a break for a year and comes back why should their previous work and MONEY they put in be lost? There is no good reason. It does not hurt anyone else in the game.

    When you farm that torc should you lose it if you go inactive for a year, even better if you get completion why not make it so you lose one life for every month you are inactive thereby forcing you to regrind those past lives to regain your completionist status?

    It comes to the same thing really.

    @TheRobai No it is not the same as removing guild levels. Level will still take time to achieve. A smaller guild SHOULD take longer to level up than a bigger guild. Soloing things should be longer than doing something as a group.

    The problem is people seem to want to attach some special meaning to being a level 100 guild, like it means you are some kind of expert player and therefore need some special badge showing everyone that sees you in game how special you are.

    Guild ship and their level should be about the perks and everyone should eventually be able to reach this with the only varying factor being how long it takes for your guild to reach 100.

    If worried about abuse just make renown follow each character. This would remove the ability to guild hop just to help your buddy lvl his guild.

    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 06-03-2013 at 12:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  11. #171
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnez View Post
    Decay is what makes me shameful of wasting points on guild renown pots. We *really* wanted that level 55 ship too and split the astral diamond cost amongst 4 of us.

    We're no longer going to buy pots or astral shards as now that we've reached 60 we can probably expect to plateau soon (hopefully at 63).

    Note- if we had the ability to reach 85... we'd just say "Shut up and Take My Money" for the level 85 ship.
    FYI.. I hate the bigger ship... Again, like I said, the ONLY buff you can fit on the bigger ship that doesn't fit on the level 55 ship is a sonic resist shrine... That's it... But it takes longer to get all your buffs running around the level 80/85 ship because it's so much bigger...

    I miss our medium sized ship where the stat shrines were five feet apart instead of 40 feet apart.

    But I know I know... there are people QUITTING the game because the number over their head isn't getting bigger even though they have 98% of the guild benefits already, so we need to make sure they are happy, and we should let everyone get to 100.

    Again, I think it's silly... but I am sincerely for removing all guild decay now so everyone can be happy... I will no longer try to explain to people that a level 72 guild is functionally no different than a level 78 guild or really even a level 90 guild (how often do you miss having sonic resist?).

    Bigger number is a bigger number, I get it... So let's get rid of guild decay.
    Last edited by Thrudh; 06-03-2013 at 12:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  12. #172
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    FYI.. I hate the bigger ship... Again, like I said, the ONLY buff you can fit on the bigger ship that doesn't fit on the level 55 ship is a sonic resist shrine... That's it... But it takes longer to get all your buffs running around the level 80/85 ship because it's so much bigger...

    I miss our medium sized ship where the stat shrines were five feet apart instead of 40 feet apart.

    But I know I know... there are people QUITTING the game because the number over their head isn't getting bigger even though they have 98% of the guild benefits already, so we need to make sure they are happy, and we should let everyone get to 100.

    Again, I think it's silly... but I am sincerely for removing all guild decay now so everyone can be happy... I will no longer try to explain to people that a level 72 guild is functionally no different than a level 78 guild or really even a level 90 guild (how often do you miss having sonic resist?).

    Bigger number is a bigger number, I get it... So let's get rid of guild decay.
    Pretty sure at lvl 93 you unlock major xp shrine but yes remove decay and have done with it already.

    IMHO the devs should be doing other more important things than wasting time trying to balance this.
    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 06-03-2013 at 12:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  13. #173
    Community Member Arnez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    FYI.. I hate the bigger ship... Again, like I said, the ONLY buff you can fit on the bigger ship that doesn't fit on the level 55 ship is a sonic resist shrine... That's it... But it takes longer to get all your buffs running around the level 80/85 ship because it's so much bigger...

    I miss our medium sized ship where the stat shrines were five feet apart instead of 40 feet apart.

    But I know I know... there are people QUITTING the game because the number over their head isn't getting bigger even though they have 98% of the guild benefits already, so we need to make sure they are happy, and we should let everyone get to 100.

    Again, I think it's silly... but I am sincerely for removing all guild decay now so everyone can be happy... I will no longer try to explain to people that a level 72 guild is functionally no different than a level 78 guild or really even a level 90 guild (how often do you miss having sonic resist?).

    Bigger number is a bigger number, I get it... So let's get rid of guild decay.
    That IS a good point about the larger ship. I sorta assumed that the level 80 ship would be "less efficient" in getting all your buffs- which is why I liked (and have spent money on) the Stormglory line.

    To be completely honest- at 63 there won't be anything more I need shrine-wise and the number next to our name doesn't mean anything to me.
    What bothers me is that every day I log on my first thought is "how far did Decay take us back today?"
    Or that we have to plan amongst ourselves who will make up the decay should someone need to take a day or two off from playing due to work or vacation.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnez View Post
    That IS a good point about the larger ship. I sorta assumed that the level 80 ship would be "less efficient" in getting all your buffs- which is why I liked (and have spent money on) the Stormglory line.

    To be completely honest- at 63 there won't be anything more I need shrine-wise and the number next to our name doesn't mean anything to me.
    What bothers me is that every day I log on my first thought is "how far did Decay take us back today?"
    Or that we have to plan amongst ourselves who will make up the decay should someone need to take a day or two off from playing due to work or vacation.
    Guild I belong to just earned 60. And ransack slammed down like a house hurled from Kansas by an EF25.... We only earned maybe 5K renown total that day (post and pre level) - and ransack slammed down within minutes (seemingly almost instantly)

    We nearly backslid to 59, and only hung onto the hard earned level by under 1K renown.

    We are looking forward to 61 in a month or two - but decay goes from 4536 to 6356... and that is almost our daily (weekend day) total.

    We love our close-knit community and do try to add people that fit our play styles and personalities, however our leader has decided to just open the floodgates and mass recruit anybody.

    Not good for our hard fought closely-knit community - and sad. Our guild is (was) composed of almost exclusively real-life friends, professionals who earn decent livings and spend absurd amounts of money on the game. Wasn't an issue to put up a gold-seal xp shrine for friends who all chipped in, (who's turn to renew? oh, yeah, mine) but we've decided not to keep spending money on a game that just makes us farm renown in order to just maintain what has taken us YEARS to obtain.

    My suggestions still stand - and my patience wanes. Soon it will be the second xpac and then shortly after a year anniversary of this kludge. Hopefully the guild will be at 1000 members and kicking anyone who isn't logging in several times a week. We have zero incentive to keep casual members - look where it has gotten us - no where, except angry and frustrated.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veles View Post
    It means "little bit " I would say. These treads are so opinionated, argumentative and long, so it does matter to "some " people.
    No, it's not blocked, it's the same with raids, quests, difficulty, epic elite gear.
    Someone here said " Try harder and become better and you will see more of the game."
    It's ironic who needs to feel "special" here, what's the English word for that, entitled ?
    Except that renown gain is primarily a meter of how much time one puts into the game. Decay is totally time based, while gaining renown is really more about how much time you put towards it than how you use that time.

    This is where the problem lies in that it cuts off any player unable to commit that much time to a video game and turns off any player unwilling to commit it. Furthermore, the old system tended to segregate the player base by how much time they were willing to put into a game killing a lot of what guilds are about outside the renown/level system.

    It wasn't about who needs to feel special so much as it's about who get's the shaft so others can feel special with the old system.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRobai View Post
    In other words, if you remove decay then you remove guild levels too, since all guilds will be same level (lvl 100) and there is no point to have such thing as guild level.
    You say that like it's a bad thing? Take the meaning of guild levels away and guilds can go back to be about playing DDO, rather than being a mini-game unto themselves.

  17. #177
    Community Member Superhanns's Avatar
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    Default more meaningful ways to improve this game

    In a 2 man guild with decay issues and still not signed, its not hard to get it above lvl 62 and keep it there giving you essentially everything you need, devs time should be spent on more important things than the cries of those clinging to their daydreams of no decay/less decay, maybe devs should fix bugs instead and improve game quality instead?

    Not signed.
    Last edited by IWIronheart; 06-03-2013 at 08:45 PM.
    Completionist clonk on argonnessen.

  18. #178
    Community Member Arnez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superhanns View Post
    In a 2 man guild with decay issues and still not signed, its not hard to get it above lvl 62 and keep it there giving you essentially everything you need, devs time should be spent on more important things than the cries of babies clinging to their daydreams of no decay/less decay, maybe devs should fix bugs instead and improve game quality instead?

    Not signed.

    I agree with you 100% Devs have more important issues to deal with- You are absolutely correct in saying that Guild Renown should Simply Be Removed from the game posthaste, with prejudice so that they can fix bugs and improve game quality.
    Devs shouldn't be bothered with coming up with a new guild decay system or revamp the current one. I applaud you for stepping up to the "crybabies" and decreeing that it should Simply Be Gone.

  19. #179
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnez View Post
    I agree with you 100% Devs have more important issues to deal with- You are absolutely correct in saying that Guild Renown should Simply Be Removed from the game posthaste, with prejudice so that they can fix bugs and improve game quality.
    Devs shouldn't be bothered with coming up with a new guild decay system or revamp the current one. I applaud you for stepping up to the "crybabies" and decreeing that it should Simply Be Gone.
    Especially when removing decay is the easiest thing in the world. There is only one simple switch of a value in either one variable (AccountThatCountForDecay=0) or one formula (Decay=(DecayBase*0)). And that could be done by the intern in about 10 seconds.

    I will happily provide the ten cents this costs in manpower!

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    Especially when removing decay is the easiest thing in the world. There is only one simple switch of a value in either one variable (AccountThatCountForDecay=0) or one formula (Decay=(DecayBase*0)). And that could be done by the intern in about 10 seconds.

    I will happily provide the ten cents this costs in manpower!
    Yeah, setting decay to zero shouldn't be that much of a problem.

    Make decay go away and let us get on with playing the game instead of worrying about artificial and pointless minigames.
    It's definitely an N-word.

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