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  1. #21
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    I will say this: I've run more PUGs in epic levels during Crystal Cove than I have when it wasn't around. And I'm not talking about Cove runs either.

    It is like the PUG scene is being turned on its head. I remember distinctly (maybe a couple of years ago) I had a terrible time getting PUGs going, or getting into one while Marbar and CC were running. Now...I have no problem.

    I think this might prove that "contraction" theory.

  2. #22
    Community Member CaptainPurge's Avatar
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    That is strange because you guys have the highest traffic load of any server.

    http://ddoracle.com/Traffic.html

    I'm on Cannith which has much less traffic and don't see a lack of pick-up groups.
    Cannith: Ortarr (leader of Killer Dwarfs) - Purge Bravely - Drunkungfu Master - Ortarrdo Son of Ortarr - *others*

  3. #23
    Community Member evilgardengnome's Avatar
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    Why is there less pugs?

    Because there are more Rottweilers and there are more mutts!



    /rimshot

  4. #24
    Community Member Alisonique's Avatar
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    The moment streaks became available, pugs shrivelled.

  5. #25
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alisonique View Post
    The moment streaks became available, pugs shrivelled.
    Wrong.

  6. #26
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evilgardengnome View Post
    Why is there less pugs?
    It's because there are less people and the game is easier when there are fewer people in your group.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    It's because there are less people and the game is easier when there are fewer people in your group.
    yep. Also add the invent of Ghallanda super guilds.

    The recently inflated log-in numbers had me confused for a bit, but yesterday, there were more pugs than I've seen since pre-motu. I'm thinking the log-in numbers are real.

    But... the reason pugs are down is because people don't like pugging and there are now a million ways that people can run content without pugging. I really don't think it's more complicated than that. When given the option of running content with people you know vs. running content with unknowns, very few people would choose to run content with unknowns. This leaves a small pug playerbase. Basically just those who aren't in a guild, don't have a friendslist or aren't a part of a channel. And then of those people left, subtract those that prefer to solo. We're left with a pretty small number.

  8. #28
    Community Member skorpeon's Avatar
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    Default So the solution is?

    I am thinking since many servers have found the same PUG issue, my solution is

    1. Join one of these super guilds (My current guild although has good numbers has an absent leader and second in charge, not sure what happens when both are missing? leader is about to expire in a few days)
    2. Change server to Ghallanda (much higher activity and as I am EU based gives me a double the numbers of people to group with hopefully)

    Cost is restarting but with all the changes in gear and enhancements its as good a time as ever to take the plunge!

    tally hoo


    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    yep. Also add the invent of Ghallanda super guilds.

    The recently inflated log-in numbers had me confused for a bit, but yesterday, there were more pugs than I've seen since pre-motu. I'm thinking the log-in numbers are real.

    But... the reason pugs are down is because people don't like pugging and there are now a million ways that people can run content without pugging. I really don't think it's more complicated than that. When given the option of running content with people you know vs. running content with unknowns, very few people would choose to run content with unknowns. This leaves a small pug playerbase. Basically just those who aren't in a guild, don't have a friendslist or aren't a part of a channel. And then of those people left, subtract those that prefer to solo. We're left with a pretty small number.

  9. #29

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    Pugging is not just down on Ghallanda. This is a game-wide result of a continuous effort by the dev team over the past few years to make DDO easier to play in smaller groups (to attract more f2p'ers who expect easier games - thanks Zinga). The result was many more pug groups dont bother filling groups... and some that did wait are left waiting much longer as others jump into smaller groups and just go "shortman".

    Now with a terribly executed and unpopular forum downgrade to Genericville & Broken_Linkville that left the previously bustling DDO forum community a ghost town, 2 paid expansions (and this one really burned bridges with long time paying players, VIPs) - Turbine must be finding paying subs and f2p members way down.

    The shining bit of light is the content was beautifully rendered, new monsters fun (griffons look amazing!), and plenty of good folks to play with if you look hard enough.

    I believe they did enough in this update ( I cannot in good faith call this an expansion) but are still recovering from some extremely bad marketing and design decisions by the suits in the past two years.

    The last bit of shining light is we as a guild have benefited from some folks coming back to the game to give it a shot. So I think that's where the solution lies. If you are upset pugging is down, post some groups up yourself, and seek some guilds out that match your playstyle!

    Don't grab your heels by the corns, grab the bull by the horns!!
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 09-03-2013 at 07:26 PM.


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  10. #30
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Do you want to be part of the problem or part of the solution?

    If you have a free spot or 5 throw up and LFM. That's all you gotta do.

  11. #31
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Pugged all day today, different levels. Joined most, hosted a few.

    It's down a bit - but I think it's mostly people-based-motivation. Get with the making of the LFMs, you slackers.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  12. #32
    Community Member msdesign's Avatar
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    Here, I have 2 clerics (one level 17 TR, one level 13 1st life). I know for sure, one day I logged on another toon, saw a PUG being started for the Missing chain in the Harbor, and lacking a healer (altough they didn't mention "need healer"; I just looked at their group contents and saw melee and arcanes, but no healer).

    So I quickly changed to my higher level cleric. When I was looking at the LFM panel, the group had already started the quest. Sure, they have just steped in and I was not going to loose any xp for that. What I want to say is, the rush people have these days. I remember the time then I use to join a PUG and everyone waited for the last member to come, specially if the last member was the healer.

    This happened before, and too many times with my other toons. When I can, I send a tell to the party leader asking to save a spot for my [toon class here], and say its name. Then I switch toon and join their party. Have done that too often, but I still see a LOT of times, PUGs being formed who just don't wait for other players. I even make my own PUGs sometimes, only to have the quest opened by a rushing zerger who didn't ask "can I open the quest now and clear the way?". I hate that type of behaviour.

    Since the latest game updates, and I mean since they raised the max level to 25, and now to 28, DDO just doesn't feel the same anymore. I really like to play it but everyday I see elitist players and uber-toons who simply just want to play their own way, soloing every quest, and making other high level toons (who are not ubber but still, not gimped, just plain normal) hard to get a group.

    Thats one reason for the pugging to be down, altough Ghallanda is not quite poor in players. Most of the high level characters belong to ubber-VIP-players who spend their playtime in a total rush-through-levels and turning DDO in a 3... 2... 1.... GO marathon from 1 to 28 in the least possible time. Then repeat the cycle and beat that time over and over.
    Last edited by msdesign; 09-05-2013 at 06:05 AM.
    [Ghallanda]
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  13. #33
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    I was online last night and was suprised at the amount of lfms that were up (1700 UK time)


    Regarding the statement that most high level runners on G-land are uber ViPs that zerg everything.


    My highest is a L27 and to get there involves a fair bit of repetition (im still a mil xp from cap) so I will agree that many quests are ran in a spritely manner, but only because weve already flower sniffed them and now wish to efficiently get to cap.
    Corazonroto
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    The Spellswords - Ghallanda

  14. #34
    Community Member EndingDoe's Avatar
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    Odd to see this thread still alive.

    Regards from Rift. Same problem at high levels, but less so since all players join the same LFG-pool. Doesn't matter which server they are from. Also, roles are predefined: 2xDPS, 1xTank, 1xSupport, and 1xHealer. Fill those and it's a go. Direct teleport to the dungeon.

    People are berks. That's why.

  15. #35
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    I've tried starting a few. Some of them, there were absolutely NO takers.

    It seems to me that there are a decent amount of PUGs for Vale, the Lordsmarch stuff, the series with Sane Asylum, the Lords of Dust series, and at low levels. Hitting upper level content, there has been a considerable drop-off on the Amrath stuff, Orchard, and epics in general. I rarely see Chronoscope being run nowadays (which I think, overall, is a fun run). Someone else has pointed out that epic pugs are a virtual wasteland.

    1) Amrath - You already have a Separate Thread about this.

    2) Epics - Too Many Packs - 1 Guy's got Druid's Deep another has Wheloon and the 3rd Just has MotU - They ALL put LFGs up and End up starting IP - Maybe ONE of them gets a Full Group {incl Hire}.

    Or are you talking about Eberron Epics {not incl Lords Of Dust}?
    These just don't fill any more outside of Guilds/Channels!

    3) Orchard - Ah...Orchard.
    -Vets are TERRIFIED of Pugging Orchard with Unknown Quantities.

    Don't get me wrong - There's Plenty of People out there who'll do Orchard Runs and Accept anyone BUT try putting your OWN LFG up and NO-ONE! Absolutely NO-ONE Joins!

    Partly it's a Farming Phenomenon - Vets run Orchard Quests E/HHHHHHH ad nauseum.
    My LFMs are typically "Orchard Flags Elite BB"
    No-One Joins!

    I'm quite happy to do the Vol Farm or the Fleshmaker Farm - I'll even put up with the GoP Farm and Inferno Farm...
    BUT ONLY AFTER I've Grabbed the Elite BBs on ALL!

    For First Life and 2nd Life those Farms aren't even Required in the first place {and nowadays you don't even get the One Level over BB Hard Groups popping up.}
    So Basically - I can run Vol 8 times and race to Lvl 17 BUT then I'm stuck trying to start my own OVER-Level Runs for GoP, Fleshmaker and Inferno for the Favour that have absolutely NO HOPE of Filling!

  16. #36
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msdesign View Post
    Have done that too often, but I still see a LOT of times, PUGs being formed who just don't wait for other players. I even make my own PUGs sometimes, only to have the quest opened by a rushing zerger who didn't ask "can I open the quest now and clear the way?". I hate that type of behaviour.
    That's not a zerger, that's a jerk ( who joins apparently newbie group and spoils often first time experience without asking ).
    On the other hand, waiting at quest for everybody/waiting for hjealer / waiting for someone to buff, sell, whatever/ just wasting time instead of you know, PLAYING might be the most off putting thing for "vets".

    I dare to say, most don't care much about someone dying or someone not knowing the quest, or weird build or whatever as long as the group is doing SOMETHING.

    Many people just have time for an hour or two so want to get most of their enjoyment/time.
    Selling / getting components / scrolls / rebuffing and parking on ship BEFORE logging off, then logging the next day with TR partner and starting quests immediately.

    Joining unknown pug, only to waste half your time doing nothing is no fun ( again, perhaps not many have patience for super slow flowersniffing / all breakables or whatever but no problem slowing a bit down to not spoil someone's fun ) .
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  17. #37
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Regarding "save me a spot" requests.

    NO.

    I'm probably the guy he's complaining about but I don't care. You are the one being selfish asking somebody to wait for you in a pickup group so you have no right to complain when people will not wait for you.

    Regarding power-zerging in flower-sniffing groups, that's just not cool. Especially if people are new and have never run the content before, it ruins people's fun. If you're a power-zerger you just shouldn't do that.

    However . . . if you join zerger's group you have no right to complain if they dont' flower sniff.

    The problem is simply addressed, just throw up LFM for that 99% of the content the can be handled by any group.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Regarding "save me a spot" requests.

    NO.

    I'm probably the guy he's complaining about but I don't care. You are the one being selfish asking somebody to wait for you in a pickup group so you have no right to complain when people will not wait for you.
    Meh. There's different types of "save me a spot". There's "I'm in a quest, but honestly, I'm almost done!" Yeah, right. "Sorry, filled."

    But there's also "switching now, name Foobarbaz". It's not really a problem for me to hit accept for them after they switch instead of someone else while they are switching.

  19. #39
    Community Member kned225's Avatar
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    Why fewer pugs? Other than the obvious reasons like 28 levels, more quests, bb causing ppl to select their pugs more carefully, i think it also has to do with recent attitude toward players being self-sufficient or not

    Gone are the days u can join a pug and "expect" heals. A lot of pugs not listed as byoh still expect byoh. Its becoming the norm. Nobody wants to wait for a healer. And the healing classes that join dont wanna babysit.

    Is this a bad thing?...not really. But it excludes a lotta newer first-life type of players. I imagine they get turned off pugging quickly after a couple bad experiences being hung out to dry

    When you're new it takes a while to learn about things like umd, dragonmarks, helf dillys etc. The character creation screen doesnt mention them and a new player who roles a fighter probably assumes hes gonna get healed by a cleric

    I know i dont pug my couple remaining non self-sufficient toons. Its not worth the pp or the aggravation

  20. #40
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    First, I saw Troll hosting PUGs last night - so I know he practices what he preaches. He even welcomed pikers.

    Second, I joined several PUGs today. They both ended up being TR groups, but none of them had any drama or "if you die you are booted" ****, just normal but efficient questing. Sadly, I had to drop the Orchard group before Inferno to head to dinner (with beer, so it wasn't that sad) but I've honestly just been pugging and the pugging seems maybe a little less than it was when I started, but it wasn't dead.

    Third, I did join a group doing Irestone where a new player dropped because the 3 TRs he felt simply out-classed him. I'm sure they did, and he felt all kinds of put-out - so I decided to engage him in dialog directly. He didn't seem like a jerk - just a new guy. He joined up in a later series of harbor elites and (I think) learned a bit and will keep going.

    We all just need to open the LFM more and stop being so freaking dramatic.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

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