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Thread: Stop kiting

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izuma41 View Post
    I get what you're saying but at the same time I have to sacrifice my skill points to compensate their build? What makes theirs so much more special than mine?
    If you do PUGs, don't expect them to play in your playstyle. If you don't want to "sacrifice" anything, just don't do PUGs. When a melee asks a bard for GH, blur and FoM, and the bard starts to link epic phiarlan cloak, planar gird and kundarak delving boots, well, you know that bard is not built for PUGs. Same with people having a huge burst dps, but no items for reducing aggro, or a skill to avoid it, so they just start to kite... There are times when kiting is good or even, necessary. Other times, is better to block with a shield, use diplo or anything to get the aggro off from you.
    There are just a few things in the game which more pathetic than a melee chasing the mobs...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    It isn't edgy, it's the truth. In EE, good players build good groups, and these groups do not contain melee. Every other difficulty is too easy for tactics to matter. If you're taking the first five in EE, and they are mostly melee, then change your tactics and kite less. But why do that, when you can simply fill from channel or guild and have an optimal group and a much smoother run?
    A good melee that can stun in EE's will make those EE's go much smoother. Helpless enemies take far more damage (at least 50% more...usually more). I'll grant that it isn't easy to build a stunner for EE's but a melee that can do that absolutely has a place in any EE group.
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  3. #23
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I've run EEs with Melee heavy groups and caster groups, even All ranged groups and even mixes

    In all cases if the group is using the same tactics the quest goes smoother. EE smooth runs in my opinion deal more with the synergy of the group and less with its make-up.

    As pointed out, a melee that can stun is worth its weight, especially if paired up with burst damage dealers.

    In all cases it is understanding the limits and Strengths of the group and playing to those limits and Strengths.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    A good melee that can stun in EE's will make those EE's go much smoother. Helpless enemies take far more damage (at least 50% more...usually more). I'll grant that it isn't easy to build a stunner for EE's but a melee that can do that absolutely has a place in any EE group.
    Yes, a well built melee can perform okay, but they're still behind a well built shiradi caster or furyshot build. It's just a very big risk assuming a melee is well built. Usually people who know how to build optimal toons, build optimal toons, not optimal sub-optimal toons. Or something like that.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Yes, a well built melee can perform okay, but they're still behind a well built shiradi caster or furyshot build. It's just a very big risk assuming a melee is well built. Usually people who know how to build optimal toons, build optimal toons, not optimal sub-optimal toons. Or something like that.
    A group with a stunner and 5 burst-damage ranged toons will outperform a group with 6 burst-damage ranged toons. I don't disagree with you that it's harder to build that melee in today's game than to build a good furyshot. And a monkey could build a good shiradi caster. But all 3 modalities - ranged, melee, and casting - are completely workable in the current game and all 3 are highly useful when built and played well. Saying that melee is suboptimal is incorrect. Saying that the majority of people that build melees currently are building suboptimal toons though...I'd go along with that.
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  6. #26
    Community Member Izuma41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    A thought to leave you with - Will a mob die faster with 6 people hitting it or just one person?
    .
    I agree with that idea, but not when the designated target is a melee picked over a caster, the idea of possibly distracting the melee mobs to help finish off the caster is another idea that comes to mind as well. Maybe I was a bit rash to get upset over being told to stop kiting but at the same time there's people in game who cannot figure out if it's more of a hindrance or perk. If I'm being targeted by a melee I'd gladly take those hits and kite him around so that the group can take out the caster or any other mob.

    I suppose it just depends on the situation though as well as the person.

  7. #27
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    Kite in tighter circles. Get close to the melee as often as possible.

    If you need to run all over the map, you don't know how to kite.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    A group with a stunner and 5 burst-damage ranged toons will outperform a group with 6 burst-damage ranged toons. I don't disagree with you that it's harder to build that melee in today's game than to build a good furyshot. And a monkey could build a good shiradi caster. But all 3 modalities - ranged, melee, and casting - are completely workable in the current game and all 3 are highly useful when built and played well. Saying that melee is suboptimal is incorrect. Saying that the majority of people that build melees currently are building suboptimal toons though...I'd go along with that.
    A mix of Shiradi range and fury range is also nice. The Shiradi takes the place of the stunner. Melees in EE are for the top players in the game really, at least for groups that go in with no heals as is the practice a lot, at least in our neck of the woods. (Not out of uberness, just out of not wanting to wait forever for that healer that recognizes the group; let's face it, a lot of healers(not enough) don't want to run around healing folks in EE... each successful mob hit can easily be 300+ hp).

  9. #29
    Community Member Hirosue's Avatar
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    My healer has a great way to stop rangers kiting. Broken down into 4 simple stages.

    1. Greater dispel magic - just in case the kiting ranger has FOM most don’t so this can usually be skipped.

    2. Grease clicky. Grease, Grease, more Grease - eventually kiting ranger will fail saves and fall over
    ,
    3. No heals

    4. No raise.

    Problem solved.

    Weird that I am posting in a tread started by a kiting ranger? Not really. Maybe the kiting rangers of cannith will read this.

    When you kite mobs you are generally reducing overall party DPS as most melees won’t want to chase after the mobs chasing after you. This is a FACT. Your kiting reduces overall dps x the number of other melees in the group. You many shotting for 20 seconds every 2 minutes doesn’t make up for this loss of DPS.

    As a healer I find it immensely annoying to watch rangers do this and then scream for heals. I never heal kiting rangers and as often as possible I will hasten their/your demise.
    Last edited by Hirosue; 08-07-2013 at 05:51 PM.
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  10. #30
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirosue View Post
    My healer has a great way to stop rangers kiting. Broken down into 4 simple stages.

    1. Greater dispel magic - just in case the kiting ranger has FOM most don’t so this can usually be skipped.

    2. Grease clicky. Grease, Grease, more Grease - eventually kiting ranger will fail saves and fall over
    ,
    3. No heals

    4. No raise.

    Problem solved.

    Weird that I am posting in a tread started by a kiting ranger? Not really. Maybe the kiting rangers of cannith will read this.

    When you kite mobs you are generally reducing overall party DPS as most melees won’t want to chase after the mobs chasing after you. This is a FACT. Your kiting reduces overall dps x the number of other melees in the group. You many shotting for 20 seconds every 2 minutes doesn’t make up for this loss of DPS.

    As a healer I find it immensely annoying to watch rangers do this and then scream for heals. I never heal kiting rangers and as often as possible I will hasten their/your demise.
    When on my divines I've used a similar solution to problems like that. But only after trying to change it through discussion repeatedly.

    Ranged dps has gotten a ton better in recent months. I've seen some pretty amazing things come out of recent builds. But they require a lot of gear, tomes, and knowledge to Rickroll mob groups they pull. However what people are saying in regard to a ranged toon kiting large groups of mobs is still unacceptable in a melee heavy party in a lot of cases. Certainly not all - yet one should consider being part of the group and adhering to the group goal as opposed to soloing within the group. There are exceptions of course, but they are far less common.

    The OP reads to me like one of those guys playing a Ranger that:

    1. Cannot burst kill large groups of mobs via IPS/Manyshot/stars due to being undergeared.
    2. Can't keep themselves up without outside help.
    3. Takes a request to stop kiting as an ego stroke as opposed what they should have taken from it.
    4. Kites groups of mobs without killing them from burst moment to burst moment, up to two mins at a time.

    It sounds like the OP interpreted the request from the tankish type as whining as opposed to considering just how intimidation works now. And I also question how much kiting they were doing to get party members repeatedly asking them to stop.

    When pugging, it's good to attempt to be considerate to the others in the group. Some people have a long memory. And it may not matter to you now OP, but it will when and if you find your requests to join denied by people you annoyed. Kinda like my Sorc I'm leveling. I took mass hold person in Gianthold Heroic in that vein. For similar cost in sp to meta'd fireballs, I can have hula hooped trapped mob groups for melee mow down. Rotating between my meta'd fireballs and held/webbed mob groups ensures we all are having fun.

    Try being of assistance to the party. Or, if you really feel you must kite everything around the map until you kill it yourself, solo.
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  11. #31
    Community Member Uidolon's Avatar
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    leave the kiter and continue to next room is my solution the kiter will kill em eventually or die in either case its solved.

    if the group is struggling then this might not be wise and then your biggest issue probably isnt kiting anyhow

  12. #32
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    Default Why your build isn't as special as any thing that can stand and kill mobs. Explained

    Quote Originally Posted by Izuma41 View Post
    I get what you're saying but at the same time I have to sacrifice my skill points to compensate their build? What makes theirs so much more special than mine?
    Your build is gimp.

    Rangers are one of the first choices of Lord of Rings, makeup on my elf loving, new players.

    They all pew pew pew poorly except when that certain 20 seconds of every 2 minutes is up.

    Most of these Legolas with eyeliner dont even have fulisade with repeater, or 10k stars. They really shouldnt allow new players to pick more than 6 maybe 12 levels of ranger.

    If Turbine had a system in place to keep new players from rolling up infi dex to hit elves that kite every mob because they dont have heavy fort on. We would all be more thankful.

    L2P

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hirosue View Post
    My healer has a great way to stop rangers kiting. Broken down into 4 simple stages.

    1. Greater dispel magic - just in case the kiting ranger has FOM most don’t so this can usually be skipped.

    2. Grease clicky. Grease, Grease, more Grease - eventually kiting ranger will fail saves and fall over
    ,
    3. No heals

    4. No raise.

    Problem solved.

    Weird that I am posting in a tread started by a kiting ranger? Not really. Maybe the kiting rangers of cannith will read this.

    When you kite mobs you are generally reducing overall party DPS as most melees won’t want to chase after the mobs chasing after you. This is a FACT. Your kiting reduces overall dps x the number of other melees in the group. You many shotting for 20 seconds every 2 minutes doesn’t make up for this loss of DPS.

    As a healer I find it immensely annoying to watch rangers do this and then scream for heals. I never heal kiting rangers and as often as possible I will hasten their/your demise.

    Wow... a healer? You're already playing the most worthless class in game and people are doing you a favor by allowing you into their groups. You would then grief them further? Ick.

  14. #34
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Because its annoying and usually slows down killing the mobs if I could target and kill kiters myself I would

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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Wow... a healer? You're already playing the most worthless class in game and people are doing you a favor by allowing you into their groups. You would then grief them further? Ick.
    I really miss neg rep sometimes

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  16. #36
    Community Member lyrecono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Wow... a healer? You're already playing the most worthless class in game and people are doing you a favor by allowing you into their groups. You would then grief them further? Ick.
    True, turbine is molding clerics into healbots, still in heroic content i use this rule:

    If you are ...... enough to come in fire-ring range and take agro before i can establish it on my melee toons i assume it was on purpose and you can handle it or that it's part of your learning curve.
    If you're nice enough to ask politely what went wrong i will educate you on what a melee tank can and can't do. (all whille bringing your soulstone to the nearest shrine)

    If said ranged toon keeps doing that, all i can do is shrug and move on, its just a game...
    if said ranged toon is being a "richard" about it, he will land on my "special" friends list because you're very special in your own way and best suited for solo play. In DDO where teamplay and, here it comes; communication plays such an important role said ranged toon should be able to communicate with his/hers party members instead of rambling on forums where said offending tank probably wont read this.
    Last edited by lyrecono; 08-08-2013 at 12:41 PM. Reason: typo

  17. #37
    Community Member Hirosue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    Wow... a healer? You're already playing the most worthless class in game and people are doing you a favor by allowing you into their groups. You would then grief them further? Ick.

    LOL. you must be one of those kiting rangers who didn't get any heals from me and died stupidly.
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  18. #38
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    theirs no such thing as a ranger anymore. Theirs a monk with a bow or a fighter with a splash.

    The most amazing realization is that a human being on the other end of that character can actually stomach the sight of that goofy bow firing a single damn arrow lol. I mean firing 10k stars and rolling the nice with FOTW going is of course actual dps. Standing there in shirardi firing off (an) arrow hoping against hope for some kind of proc is to be on the same level as the people that need to call the 1800 number on the back of a scratch off.
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  19. #39
    Community Member Toro12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izuma41 View Post
    So I was playing on my arcane archer who's especially built to kite which I think most archers are built to do, and the tank (the person who is suppose to maintain agro) gets upset that I'm kiting. My question is why should I stop kiting if you don't have control over agro? There is a skill called intimidation which draws agro towards you, why not invest in it?
    The tanking ability of a ranger isn't on par with barbarians and fighters I believe.
    If you need to kite not to get hit , you drew aggro you didn't/couldn't want / shouldnt have. That is a failing of your build /skill/knowledge.

    Don't worry many players that come from other MMOs suffer this same failing early on. With the combination of ranged not as strong as it is in other MMOs and Intim not being the magic stop everything dead in its tracks to focus on a guy that makes a funny face(over the guy shooting him in the kiester).

    -----
    If you can handle the aggro and your not slowing the rest of the party kite all day if you want.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I really miss neg rep sometimes
    Couldn't agree more. Here have some positive rep!

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