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  1. #101
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    I can agree with people who are concerned about the quantity or quality of content that can be packed as an "expansion", but I have no time for people who are still banging on about the fact that your VIP subscription doesn't cover expansions.
    I've been picking on the "quantity" of this "expansion."

    Those of you who actually played the quests, and I'm sure you can answer this without breaking NDA, is this actually worth $30?

    Is the quality there? Is is 3-4 time cooler than Gianthold with it's 10ish quests and two raids for about 1/3 the price?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I've been picking on the "quantity" of this "expansion."

    Those of you who actually played the quests, and I'm sure you can answer this without breaking NDA, is this actually worth $30?

    Is the quality there? Is is 3-4 time cooler than Gianthold with it's 10ish quests and two raids for about 1/3 the price?
    30$ for a game with almost infinite replay value? I think it's worth it if you're gonna keep playing. Now of course that 30$ just adds up... but it's still cheap if we see it as $/h. All people do is compare it to the last expansion which, obviously, had a ton more content (and... at least one "broken" raid at launch). Why not compare it to any other hobby instead, you'll be happier and find it's worth it. And does Turbine really have to make it as big as the other one? I don't think so. It's not like ONE expansion sets the definitive standard for all the other one to come. Or maybe they should have made the last one smaller as well? So no one would get hurt in their feelings if this exact situation had to come. Now would this one "seem" better for it's price?

    The problem with what is worth or not worth it is that it totally depends on the person. What matters in the end is are you or are you not going to buy and enjoy it. Nothing else really matters because it ain't gonna change in term of content.

    Too many players are in too deep when it comes to MMOs and get blinded in the process. It's ok to want more and feel it's not enought but it just doesn't matter. At all.

    So, are you gonna buy it or not? That would be a nice answer to "Is it worth it?".

    "You" = people in general still whining.
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  3. #103
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    . . . Why not compare it to any other hobby instead . . .
    because that's a really stupid comparison.

  4. #104
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post
    So, are you gonna buy it or not? That would be a nice answer to "Is it worth it?".
    No. It is foolish to pay the list price for something this over-priced. It'll eventually go on sale, when buy it. You cannot reward the outright greed that is charging this much for what is just two little packs.

    I traded in-game items for my expansion code, so even though this cost me no money it's looking like a bit of a rip off.

  5. #105
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Worth it well....

    It'll probably be needed to get to 28 for a significant amount of time without constantly waiting for your xp ransack to wear off. That means if you have any interest in epic tr when it comes out u20 you probably need it, and that it's non-optional. No level cap increase and I wouldn't buy it.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    because that's a really stupid comparison.
    Then I don't understand how you value money and make choices. Not everything is meant to be compared btw. That just makes people double guess their choices instead of enjoying stuff for what it really is.

    We just don't see it the same way and I bet we never will. What I know is that I make my choices out of what something can bring me now, not from the dreams/wishes I make or my whole past.

    Edit: if you really have to compare, $/h is always a smart choice when it comes to hobby id say. It doesn't simply imply quality or quantity based on past experience which usually just brings suffering the older we get.
    Last edited by Azarddoze; 07-24-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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  7. #107
    Community Member Dimack's Avatar
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    It's nothing to drop $50-80 on a night out with the wife to dinner and a movie with a sitter for the kids. That's like 3 or 4 hours of entertainment. But yeah feels like vips got a bit short changed with this one vs the last. Almost like they needed to make it an expansion to pay for the EH pass work. Then again if it keeps the DDO lights on I'll fork over the cash. I really wish the silly wizard had did something like the spider mask though.
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  8. #108
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    What I don't get is why people are getting upset that Turbine is offering expansions that they can choose to buy or not, when they could simply include expansions with the subscription and raise the rate every time they put one out. At least this way, they have the choice to not pay in order to play the rest of the game.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    At least this way, they have the choice to not pay in order to play the rest of the game.
    I'd like to add, "that they already enjoy since they're playing" at the end.
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  10. #110
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    Some people are broke, some are kids, etc . . .

    In this day and age you're really gonna insult somebody based on their lack of spending money?

    Stay classy.
    Heh... Let me respond how you would normally respond...

    "Everyone who is not rich like me is doing it wrong" -Teh_Troll

    (and besides he started it by saying anyone who "wasted" $8 a month was going to die broke and alone).
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  11. #111
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    I've been picking on the "quantity" of this "expansion."

    Those of you who actually played the quests, and I'm sure you can answer this without breaking NDA, is this actually worth $30?

    Is the quality there? Is is 3-4 time cooler than Gianthold with it's 10ish quests and two raids for about 1/3 the price?
    Is a movie worth $30? I spent at least that much when I saw Man of Steel. It was 2.5 hours of fun, and I thought the $30, although a bit pricey, was worth it. I recently bought and played Max Payne III for $40... That was about 10 hours of fun... And well worth it.

    As far as I'm concerned, if I get at least 20 hours of fun out of the expansion, it's probably worth it. And I'm quite likely to spend 200 hours in the new content...

    And probably, so will you...

    Yes, it's a bit light on content... But this is a discussion about VIPs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  12. #112
    Community Member Teh_Troll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Is a movie worth $30? I spent at least that much when I saw Man of Steel. It was 2.5 hours of fun, and I thought the $30, although a bit pricey, was worth it. I recently bought and played Max Payne III for $40... That was about 10 hours of fun... And well worth it.
    Does DDO have a $200+ million dollar budget? Employ thousands of people?

    Man of Steel was worth the price of admission, now had you said Star Trek 2 or Iron Man 3 . . . those were steaming piles of disappointment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, if I get at least 20 hours of fun out of the expansion, it's probably worth it. And I'm quite likely to spend 200 hours in the new content...

    And probably, so will you...
    Got if for free, still feel ripped off. And I think I spent more on cleaning supplies yesterday than what this costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Yes, it's a bit light on content... But this is a discussion about VIPs.
    MoTU didn't bother me as a VIP. That was a ton of new content. heck, getting lost int he Underdark for 4 hours the first night was worth the price to me.

    What's terrible about Shadowfail is how low the bar has fallen on what's being called an "expansion." After they gonna stop releasing packs so they can bundle them and continue ripping off VIPs? Is this their new business model?

    it should also concern all of you that they are this desperate for cash that this is what they have to resort to to keep the game afloat.

  13. #113
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azarddoze View Post

    Too many players are in too deep when it comes to MMOs and get blinded in the process. It's ok to want more and feel it's not enought but it just doesn't matter. At all.

    So, are you gonna buy it or not? That would be a nice answer to "Is it worth it?"..
    Value of current item being sold can be determined by past precident in the same game. DDO is giving us less and less content wise but asking for more money wise. Dont be surprised when alot more players go the frugal route and wait for it to sell separately and go on sale - paying for it with saved up points.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #114
    Community Member eachna_gislin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehediah View Post
    Let me put it another way.

    I'm a hair's breath from cancelling VIP and paying for all the stuff and saving tons of money.

    If Turbine wants to keep VIP'ers - then they need to make VIP a better bargain. Cause, frankly, it ain't. It'd cost a bunch at first to get everything the VIP gets - but, as soon as it's all bought, you are saving tons of money. Which translates to Turbine losing money overall.

    So, to re-iterate, if Turbine wants regular money from VIP'ers, then they need to give them a better value for it...
    Seriously...just buy the extra 11K TP pack when you buy the expansion. It's something like $40 or $50 instead of $90. Cancel VIP.

    When your VIP month is over, buy what you need 'immediately' to function (the packs with the raids you regularly run, the classes/races you use, a couple low and mid-level quest packs if you TR). Then sit on the rest and buy packs as they go on sale over the next few months.

    With 11k in TP, assuming you've already ended up buying MoTU+Epic Destinies and a few things not free to VIPs over time (extra char slots, extra bank slots, etc), you should be able to buy every pack in the game and still have a tidy sum of points left over.

    With those left over points, buy whatever consumables you normally spend your VIP points on (pots, bypasses, character bag or bank slots, etc).

    Give it 3 months and see how it feels not being able to open on elite to start. If you hate it at least you got your points on a deep discount and you can always re-sub.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by eachna_gislin View Post
    Seriously...just buy the extra 11K TP pack when you buy the expansion. It's something like $40 or $50 instead of $90. Cancel VIP.

    When your VIP month is over, buy what you need 'immediately' to function (the packs with the raids you regularly run, the classes/races you use, a couple low and mid-level quest packs if you TR). Then sit on the rest and buy packs as they go on sale over the next few months.

    With 11k in TP, assuming you've already ended up buying MoTU+Epic Destinies and a few things not free to VIPs over time (extra char slots, extra bank slots, etc), you should be able to buy every pack in the game and still have a tidy sum of points left over.

    With those left over points, buy whatever consumables you normally spend your VIP points on (pots, bypasses, character bag or bank slots, etc).

    Give it 3 months and see how it feels not being able to open on elite to start. If you hate it at least you got your points on a deep discount and you can always re-sub.
    This is almost exactly what I just did. I figure that not being VIP for the next year will equal out the cost (about). Since I'd been VIP and bought MOTU I already have a bunch of packs and favor rewards and if I understand correctly, elite opening on most things (but that's not a big deal for me.)

    So far working out just fine. If everything goes as planned I will go even longer before I need to buy any more points.

    In the end, Turbine will probably get the same out of me, but I feel better about it and in more control. I view the switch to premium as a mini-game in itself.

    (I didn't like the fact that VIPS didnt get the content for free, and I foresee the same thing continuing in the future.)

  16. #116
    Community Member Yehediah's Avatar
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    Apparently, a great number of people have trouble reading and reply before reading.

    The change in ToS is just the tip of the iceberg. We got a email at the start of F2P (just a little over a couple of years ago) proudly stating how much benefit we VIP's were going to get (such as "free" content). And the "VIP" designation was new, as it was all P2P at the time. The next thing we know - we are asked to pay for MoTU AND to add insult to injury - no warning ahead of time about the change in ToS (other than "perhaps" some fine print). And, to add insult to injury, a ton of what we were "paying" for we already "got" as part of VIP - so, we were essentially paying MORE for MoTU.

    But, that's just a minor part of my initial complaint that started this thread. The main heart of the complaint is how badly we VIP's are treated in general. The benefit is rapidly dwindling. The point is if they want people to pay for VIP, then they need to make it worth more. (AND we already did the song and dance: 10% XP is piddly compared to all the other ways to get a higher bonus and is USELESS once capped; open on Elite is also pretty piddly since only one in the group needs it and it's pretty minor after a few TR's; etc.) I'd dare say VIP's spend more on the game per person than the non-VIP - so, quit lecturing us on "contributing" to the game. Turbine is benefiting from VIP's and they ought to give us a lot more respect than they do instead of continually ****ing us...
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  17. #117
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    VIP isn't a 30-year contract... At most, it's a 1-year contract, for many people it's a month-to-month contract.

    They absolutely can rewrite the contract every time it expires, and you can choose to take the new terms or not.

    It's like you walking into a mortgage company and saying I want a 3.25% rate not a 4.00% rate because you guys offered 3.25% just a year ago. How dare you change it!
    First, as far as I can tell, there is no expiration date on either the promise of content, nor on the Terms of Service.

    So, you’re wrong.

    Once again – and you still don’t quite get this – most companies when they change the terms of an agreement, they will notify people who subscribe to the service of these changes. Credit card companies do this, cell service providers do this, and so on. It is not like notifying your customers of a change in service directly is some new practice.

    When Turbine changed the ToS on the game, I received ZERO notifications. Nil, nada, nothing.

    Maybe you’re so used to fly-by-night business practices, you generally don’t notice it? I dunno.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    Maybe someday you'll get to the point in your life where $8 a month doesn't cause you so much angst.
    Hey, you want to get taken like a sucker regularly, be my guest.

    And yeah, when you get comfortable with being sucked out of $8.00 (or whatever it is) monthly, before long you have no problem getting sucked out of $800.00 per month because “that’s just how things work.”

    Again, refer to my “impoverished and miserable” quote…

  18. #118
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehediah View Post
    Apparently, a great number of people have trouble reading and reply before reading.

    The change in ToS is just the tip of the iceberg. We got a email at the start of F2P (just a little over a couple of years ago) proudly stating how much benefit we VIP's were going to get (such as "free" content). And the "VIP" designation was new, as it was all P2P at the time. The next thing we know - we are asked to pay for MoTU AND to add insult to injury - no warning ahead of time about the change in ToS (other than "perhaps" some fine print). And, to add insult to injury, a ton of what we were "paying" for we already "got" as part of VIP - so, we were essentially paying MORE for MoTU.

    But, that's just a minor part of my initial complaint that started this thread. The main heart of the complaint is how badly we VIP's are treated in general. The benefit is rapidly dwindling. The point is if they want people to pay for VIP, then they need to make it worth more. (AND we already did the song and dance: 10% XP is piddly compared to all the other ways to get a higher bonus and is USELESS once capped; open on Elite is also pretty piddly since only one in the group needs it and it's pretty minor after a few TR's; etc.) I'd dare say VIP's spend more on the game per person than the non-VIP - so, quit lecturing us on "contributing" to the game. Turbine is benefiting from VIP's and they ought to give us a lot more respect than they do instead of continually ****ing us...
    I think what it comes down to is something very simple: DDO knows they have a set number of people who will pony-up whatever money they can to play this game. And they’ll keep ponying-up that money despite whatever Turbine decides to do to them. And the fanbois will love them for it.

    Someone at Turbine decided that content is their bread-and-butter – which it is – and their new course is to push out “expansion packs” as opposed to content they promised VIPs. Hence the latest VIP nugget: an epic re-tread of Gianthold, as opposed to something new.

    This is further illustrated by the fact that they’ve added all these nice little freebies – like XP bonuses and a free gold Daily Dice – as opposed to what they initially promised: access to all content. They are dangling shinies in front of the VIP players so as to distract them from the sudden change in direction, or to “compensate” them for the loss of what they were initially promised. Some people go for it. They fact that they had to do it means that they realize that kinda screwed up.

    You know, I don;’t think so many people would have been upset if Turbine had simply asked for a fee increase to compensate for the extra content, or notified VIPs of the change in the service.

    It is a frickin’ e-mail. Not really all that hard to send out.

    However, you will still get the Turbine / DDO sycophants here singing praises of all things DDO, and how VIPs have an “entitlement” mentality…

  19. #119
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Maybe a ripoff but it's awesome.
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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yehediah View Post
    Let me put it another way.

    I'm a hair's breath from cancelling VIP and paying for all the stuff and saving tons of money.

    If Turbine wants to keep VIP'ers - then they need to make VIP a better bargain. Cause, frankly, it ain't. It'd cost a bunch at first to get everything the VIP gets - but, as soon as it's all bought, you are saving tons of money. Which translates to Turbine losing money overall.

    So, to re-iterate, if Turbine wants regular money from VIP'ers, then they need to give them a better value for it...
    Those were valid points a year ago, when the first expansion wasn't part of the deal. Or even two or three years ago when there was a pack on sale every week, and half-off sales now and then, and the game could be had for peanuts. Or when the TR/difficulty unlock came into being, making one of the big VIP perks fade.

    Now the sales on content and other utility things (toon slots, banks, etc.) are less frequent, replaced with sales on fluff and trash consumables. This is the third time in recent memory there's been an outcry because VIPs aren't automatically getting something new with their sub, making it pretty clear that Turbine is moving in a different direction than what was once promised around the f2p launch. Turbine recently added a few perks to VIP accounts, so it's clear the complaints were heard and addressed- obviously not to everyone's satisfaction.

    The writing is there. It's been there. At this juncture, it's put up or shut up.

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