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  1. #1
    The Hatchery Hutoth's Avatar
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    Default Re multiple party tickets

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero
    Reminder Regarding Quest Tickets
    We are currently experiencing heavier than normal ticket volume to our support team. Much of this traffic increase is being driven by duplicate party tickets. As a reminder, when submitting a ticket, it is only necessary to submit one ticket per party. Subsequent tickets from other party members will not result in expedited service, and will be closed as duplicates of the first ticket from the party. Thanks for your patience!
    About this... is it possible to clarify why the increase would be driven by this effect? I mean, playing devil's advocate here: surely the underlying reason for an sharp increase in ticket numbers is an increase in problems?

    I'm going to assume you mean: "Please ensure you submit only one ticket per party, in order to help us deal with the increase in tickets"

    In which case, "sure thing".
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  2. #2
    The Hatchery Paleus's Avatar
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    Not having access to Turbine's data from their ticket system, I can see the case of both parties being partially correct. There is likely an increase in the number of problems which is correlated with an increase in the number of tickets. However, players taking note of increased bugs and getting fed up may be more likely to start encouraging other party members to log tickets. I have seen this happen where a person says "everyone log a ticket." So, on top of the increased volume due to problems we see an increase in the number of duplicate tickets as the player culture tilts towards one where players are more likely to submit duplicate tickets.

    Turbine, on their own, is only able to address the problem of the game's bugs, not player behavior. Them wanting to be able to sort through their tickets efficiently expressed a request not to submit duplicate tickets because it has an associated cost of paying someone to read the ticket, identify it as a duplicate, and close it. Players believe, correctly or incorrectly, that flooding the system with duplicate tickets encourages Turbine to more quickly recognize serious problems and fix them.
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  3. #3
    Community Member msdesign's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm surelly not one to blame since I don't even know how to submit a ticket.. Thats a little detail I would like to know, tough.

    I have had the need, in the past, to have a GM help while in-game (monster bugged, fall in someplace where the unstuck command doesn't work, etc.), but I never knew HOW can I submit a help ticket in-game. My account is Premium, if that matters.
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  4. #4
    Euro-Founder and Keeper Refugee Dexraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msdesign View Post
    Ok, I'm surelly not one to blame since I don't even know how to submit a ticket.. Thats a little detail I would like to know, tough.

    I have had the need, in the past, to have a GM help while in-game (monster bugged, fall in someplace where the unstuck command doesn't work, etc.), but I never knew HOW can I submit a help ticket in-game. My account is Premium, if that matters.
    I dont know the access level premium have to DM's but for tickets, hit esc, click help, click submit/create ticket (or somthing like that) and follow the wizard

  5. #5
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    It's one of those evil cycles that escalates as each side gets frustrated with the other. It's an US vs. THEM scenario which causes nothing but grief.

    If Turbine wants to stop getting CS grief maybe they should release code that is ready for production or staff their helpdesk accordingly to deal with the volume of trouble tickets since release buggy code is par for the course. When as a customer you pay for something and don't get what you paid for, you get upset, people that are upset do irrational things. Help desk is a thankless job, they have the power to prolong the pain and drag on tickets and make people wait, in slience majority of the time. If both sides are at odds with each other this will only escalate.

    More and more it's becoming an US vs THEM scenario. It's getting to the point that people are getting frustrated with buggy code and acting out accordingly...don't want the spike in helpdesk issues? start putting out code that is ready for production. Rushing to make a deadline and getting something out the door before it's ready is not the answer to make a deadline for the sake of making it. You eaither push it back and delay or ask for more resource to complete, either way it will cost you more money, on the front end to get it right or the back end in support if you push it out before it's ready...but it will cost you more money in either case if you fall behind plan.

    We waited over an hour for a GM to respond to our ticket on the weekend in a bugged TOR ELITE run we couldn't complete...go figure, first time I do TOR ELITE with my guild and it bugs out...was not the best frist time experience for a guild run or doing TOR ELITE. We gave up after an hour of waiting and recalled out. Turns out it was the second bugged out instance for someone in my group BACK TO BACK runs.

    I ran it on HARD solo with a my favortite FvS hire Larafay 5 minutes after that and completed no problem. And people wonder why solo'ing is more of a trend. I have never had a problem completing a quest solo, first time I run in a group with my guild and it bugs out...not the greatest first time grouping experience for a quest.

  6. #6
    Community Member msdesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexraven View Post
    I dont know the access level premium have to DM's but for tickets, hit esc, click help, click submit/create ticket (or somthing like that) and follow the wizard
    Ty very much, I will look those options there
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexraven View Post
    I dont know the access level premium have to DM's but for tickets, hit esc, click help, click submit/create ticket (or somthing like that) and follow the wizard
    Premium accounts only have access to in-game customer service for a number of days after making a cash purchase (i.e. purchasing TP/content with cash, not using TP to purchase an item):

    $1.00 - 15 days
    $14.99 - 30 days
    $30.00 - 90 days
    $60.00 - 180 days
    $100.00 - 365 days

    (From the Wiki: http://ddowiki.com/page/Premium_Account)

  8. #8
    Community Manager Cordovan's Avatar
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    The people answering the tickets need to make sure that they are closing duplicates when everyone in the party submits tickets, and have to go through the actual process of documenting and closing the ticket. While it doesn't take a huge amount of time on an individual basis to do this, when this is multiplied by the scale of ticketing events in a game our size, it does indeed have the ability to slow response times down. So, please! Just have one person in the party submit a ticket. Some folks might think that if everyone submits a ticket then they will get a faster response, but in actuality the opposite is true.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Some folks might think that if everyone submits a ticket then they will get a faster response, but in actuality the opposite is true.
    Well, I see the logic there, and never thought it would be FASTER.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    So, please! Just have one person in the party submit a ticket.
    However, sorry, Cordovan, but it's not that simple.

    I did that once. I submitted a single ticket, for our whole party. One of the quest objectives had bugged out and the quest was not completing. The gamemaster forced the quest completion somehow...BUT FOR ME ONLY! I got XP, favor, end reward, and everyone else in my party got nothing.

    So until I've heard that you all have changed how the gamemasters go about their business, when I have a problem, I will open a ticket for it, and recommend to each person in my party that they also do the same.

  10. #10
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The people answering the tickets need to make sure that they are closing duplicates when everyone in the party submits tickets, and have to go through the actual process of documenting and closing the ticket. While it doesn't take a huge amount of time on an individual basis to do this, when this is multiplied by the scale of ticketing events in a game our size, it does indeed have the ability to slow response times down. So, please! Just have one person in the party submit a ticket. Some folks might think that if everyone submits a ticket then they will get a faster response, but in actuality the opposite is true.
    Sorry, I disagree.

    The chances a party member will get a usefull GM that will actually help you is increased by every ticket submission.
    Recently had an issue where

    ~New Invasion ~endfight boss disappeared when slivered quest did not complete. he was just gone from combat area
    25 minutes until the first GM responded to player 1
    2 minutes later for 2nd GM respondeds to player 2
    1 Minute later 3rd GM responded to me.

    GM1 This is not a known issue submit a bug report. Nothing I can do . go away
    -~!!! an obvious lie or (benefit of the doubt..a new GM heading for uselessness.. since this is well known and documented and there are many forum posts on this happening. and telling players something that is not true does not bode well..)

    GM2 This is a known issue submit a bug report, you will have to recall and redo the quest.
    -~!! a typical useless response for a GM that cant be bothered to fix the problem.

    GM3 I can help..hold on a minute i am loading into your location. yes i see the problem. hold on a sec... Boss appeared in front of us and ding. quest complete..
    -~! Finally a helpful usefull GM.. Thankfully there are still some of these working for the GM division..

    As long as we have an opportunity to get a usefull GM I will allways encourage every party member to submit a ticket.
    Otherwise we will unanimously agree to say x it and recall without submitting a ticket and go play something else instead of ticking down timers on pots waiting for the very likely chance of getting a unhelpful GM.

    ....and with no follow up on how helpful a GM was the less usefull GM's will continue to annoy us (the customer).
    Last edited by JOTMON; 05-29-2013 at 08:14 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Default More tickets give more chance to get your problem solved

    Because you can get a helpful GM. In Prisoner (VoN 2) a member of a group accidentally destroyed a quest object, so we couldnt finish the quest. A GM answered for the ticket with the usual "I can't help, not a known issue" standard message and closed ticket, 2 minutes later another GM came (multiple tickets were sent), saw what the situation is, checked the object's original location, then put the item where it was supposed to drop when you fall off. We finished quest. So my advice, send more tickets, not just one, so maybe you can get some real help.

    And people who works for the company should start to UNDERSTAND us, not just IGNORE us. With raining bugs I would expect more helpful support, but posting info just like the one from a mod here earlier, wont help at all.

  12. #12
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    I'll join the group that has had one GM close a ticket with a "sorry, file a bug report" or "we can not complete quest objectives for you" type answer, only to have one of the multiple tickets answered by another GM who fixed the problem.

    As long as Turbine has CS that ranges from people who seem to be intent on autoclosing tickets to great GMs who want to help and do help, you will get multiple tickets.

    Maybe what this is really a sign of is that:

    1) Every GM interaction should email out a survey to rate customer experience
    2) Turbine needs to work on its training procedures

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    I'll join the group that has had one GM close a ticket with a "sorry, file a bug report" or "we can not complete quest objectives for you" type answer, only to have one of the multiple tickets answered by another GM who fixed the problem.

    As long as Turbine has CS that ranges from people who seem to be intent on autoclosing tickets to great GMs who want to help and do help, you will get multiple tickets.

    Maybe what this is really a sign of is that:

    1) Every GM interaction should email out a survey to rate customer experience
    2) Turbine needs to work on its training procedures
    If number 2 happened I suspect we would get more consistent non-help on issues.

  14. #14
    Community Member MarcusCleardawn's Avatar
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    Sorry Cordovan, but it is an observed reality that the level of helpfulness varies rather dramatically in GM's. Some GM's will say, "Not a known issue, can't help" or "Known issue, you're just out of luck." and others will actually do things that help.

    From your end, the problem is multiple tickets means additional staff time to close supernumerary tickets. From out end, more tickets means it's more likely that you will get a GM that will "go the extra mile" and actually help you resolve the issue.

    Proposed resolutions:

    1. Enforce quality control of GM's: either bring all of the GM's up to the "actually useful" level (from the player's perspective) or reduce all GM's to the "I only do known issues which generally means I can't do anything useful." This will result in a much happier player base in the case of the former, and in the later at least the player base won't be wasting time waiting for help that isn't forthcoming. In addition, granting access to a searchable "Known Issues that even the lowest level GM will help with unless such a GM is just being a jerk" would be nice so we know whether or not to spend the time waiting for GM response. This would also reduce the volume of tickets and may help improve ticket resolution time as the player could say, "I have known issue 1,243, please resolve using solution 873"

    2. Provide a way to escalate a ticket. If a player gets one of these "Not a known issue, can't help" GM's give the players an opportunity to escalate at a higher than new tickets. Additionally, if you stratified you GM's based on helpfulness and allow an escalated ticket to be put in the hopper for those GM's categorized as more helpful that might work. Lower level "Known issue" things can be resolved by the lowest level "Known issue GM's" though to be honest, I've never heard of a GM saying "Known issue" and actually helping a player.

    3. Reduce the frenetic publication schedule and spend more time in QA, reducing quest breaking bugs.

    4. Sell Fee for service GM support at the Store, something like pay X turbine points to be connected directly with a GM.

    You've got a lot of problems in the system here, from Tragedy of the Commons, submitting multiple tickets burdens the system, but since other people are going to do it, it actually benefits the individual. Perishable Commodities, many players are premium and have limited access to support so it's a sunk cost situation.

    Point is, until the player base believes that the payoff matrix has changed, players will continue to submit multiple tickets for the same issue.

  15. #15
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    If number 2 happened I suspect we would get more consistent non-help on issues.
    Gm's aren't just bots that give a pre programmed response and auto-close tickets? Seriously in three years I've never had one be helpful ever when a quest bugged out. In my opinion there might as well be no gm's in this game.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Gm's aren't just bots that give a pre programmed response and auto-close tickets? Seriously in three years I've never had one be helpful ever when a quest bugged out. In my opinion there might as well be no gm's in this game.
    I tend to have a lot of sympathy for the GM's, mostly from my own experience working in a call center as "customer care" for a cell phone company.

    If it's anything like my old job they aren't even Turbine/Warner Brothers employees but belong to some outsourcing company, start at minimum wage, have ridiculously high turnover, and get fired if they go off script to actually help customers. (So those GM's that you hear about helping people may not be around for long).

  17. #17
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    I tend to have a lot of sympathy for the GM's, mostly from my own experience working in a call center as "customer care" for a cell phone company.

    If it's anything like my old job they aren't even Turbine/Warner Brothers employees but belong to some outsourcing company, start at minimum wage, have ridiculously high turnover, and get fired if they go off script to actually help customers. (So those GM's that you hear about helping people may not be around for long).
    Yes but I've put in probably 10 tickets before I gave up on the process, one of them that I remember was,

    "I'm running von 1, Thrashack areana, on the mephit gladiator wave and the mephits never activated for me to kill them and the quest is bugged out, can you spawn the mephits for me please."

    The ticket is always closed without a tell as "This is not a known issue and we are unable to assist at this time, please submit a bug report"

    With these I've never actually spoken to a gm when submitting a ticket, just auto-close with something like that as a response.

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