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  1. #1
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    Default 3 Cleric PLs and Turn Undead still doesn't work.

    Hi, my main toon has 3 Cleric past lives, which give +2 Cleric levels to turn undead (so, +6 for 3), and is currently on a Pally life, and I still cannot turn a single undead.


    Note I started with 16 base CHA, have an extra +2 CHA from Completionist, and am wearing a +6 CHA item at level 11, as well as a Silver Flame item, Sacred item, and an Eternal Faith item.

    Not only that, but I'm also A HotD, which adds extra CLR levels to turning.


    Basically, I am completely maxed out for Turning undead, without having started with 18 base CHA.





    So with all this, I still cannot Turn any undead in at-level content.

    ....so what's the point of turn undead again?

  2. #2
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    Wow, that's pretty bad. I'm on my pally life right now (with no cleric past lives). At lvl 7 after taking HotD (had 1 rogue at the time), while wearing Sacred Helm (with Eternal Faith) and a Silver Flame item and about 20 charisma I could barely stun 2-3 undead at level in Delera's. I'm lvl 13 now (2 rogue, 11 pally) and have yet to destroy an undead while turning. Ok, no cleric past lives and not pure pally, but I'm still a Hunter of the Dead and have some ok gear.

    But you should be an undead destroying machine. I'd expect you to obliterate all the undead in a dungeon with one turn lol. Pretty sad some basic D&D abilities are basically useless .

  3. #3
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omniheals View Post
    Hi, my main toon has 3 Cleric past lives, which give +2 Cleric levels to turn undead (so, +6 for 3), and is currently on a Pally life, and I still cannot turn a single undead.

    ...

    Basically, I am completely maxed out for Turning undead, without having started with 18 base CHA.
    A guildy of mine did recently (before U18) effective turn in Delera at level undead on his 2nd life cleric. I wouldn't be surprised if they not only borked CL and MCL of spells but as well turns. I would bug report it as this doesn't sound right.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omniheals View Post
    ....so what's the point of turn undead again?
    On a Paladin the point is to use them to fuel your other abilities like Divine Might.

    I don't think I have ever even tried to turn undead on my pally but your example sounds pretty sad. Maybe the cleric past life only adds to cleric turn undead power but not paladin's? (That would seem like a bug if so)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    On a Paladin the point is to use them to fuel your other abilities like Divine Might.
    Yeah, I've got Divine Might, too :P

    But I was hoping I could step into an undead dungeon, and just absolutely wreck in there, with over 12 million Cleric xp.


    Guess not. :P Good luck to first-lifers trying to use Turn Undead effectively.

  6. #6
    Community Member moomooprincess's Avatar
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    Default AFAIK Turn Undead never worked

    As long as I played, all the players laughed at anyone trying to turn undead on elite. I quit trying to turn undead in January 2008.

    What works well for me is firewalls or Blade Barrier and Radiant Servant.

    Or go into a dungeon on normal, works well there. Or maybe go in eight levels higher than the dungeon is.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Default No problems turning recently

    Ran content last Thursday and the week before that on my L8 2nd life Cleric and had no problems obliterating undead in the blood tide chain and delera's chain on elite. Only using an eternal faith item and seek eternal rest.

    In part 3 I was destroying the flame guardians and the skeleton archers no problem.

    It should be working for you. Did you submit a bug report?
    Last edited by Postumus; 05-27-2013 at 07:16 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    please provide more details: what mobs (CR), what cleric level or at least what level, what quest, what difficulty.

    I have 2 CL past lives and I can turn undeads (the CR32-34 variety) in Epic Elite in MOTU quests just fine.. although this was before the update, I haven't tested it after yet.

  9. #9
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    They also mentioned in the release notes that they were going to dial down the HD of undead so they would be MORE susceptible to turnings. It wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility if something unintended slipped in somehow.


    When I get home I'll test it a bit to see if it is still working for me. Did you have any problems turning undead in your prior cleric lives? Or is this the first time you had this problem?

  10. #10
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    Gotta admit, the OP's title confuses me; "still doesn't work." when did it break? I also have 3 cleric PLs, use eternal faith & seek eternal rest. I have no issue with turning on my last 2 pally lives. Of course, they don't get destroyed like when I was turning as a cleric, but I can reliably stun them by the bunch. Just started my last pally life so will see if anythings changed this time around.

    Incidentally, U18 release notes say the lowered undead HD to be more online with it's CR rating. This was supposed to make turning more effective, so maybe they goofed?
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  11. #11
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omniheals View Post
    Yeah, I've got Divine Might, too :P

    But I was hoping I could step into an undead dungeon, and just absolutely wreck in there, with over 12 million Cleric xp.


    Guess not. :P Good luck to first-lifers trying to use Turn Undead effectively.

    That's real odd because my first life CLR turns Epic Hard Undead, only one or two at a time, but they still go boom after the Turn. Even the undead Giants in EH ToR go boom.

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  12. #12
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omniheals View Post
    Hi, my main toon has 3 Cleric past lives, which give +2 Cleric levels to turn undead (so, +6 for 3), and is currently on a Pally life, and I still cannot turn a single undead.


    Note I started with 16 base CHA, have an extra +2 CHA from Completionist, and am wearing a +6 CHA item at level 11, as well as a Silver Flame item, Sacred item, and an Eternal Faith item.

    Not only that, but I'm also A HotD, which adds extra CLR levels to turning.


    Basically, I am completely maxed out for Turning undead, without having started with 18 base CHA.





    So with all this, I still cannot Turn any undead in at-level content.

    ....so what's the point of turn undead again?
    First Sacred does not stack with Eternal Faith item. The current TOP equipment combine is Silver Flame and Eternal Faith.

    Second by Turn do you mean destroy? or Stun/cower? If you mean destroy you need to be 2x the level of the creature to turn.

    I've made other posts on how this works, might be time to look that up and read and see if it is in your expectations. But even in my first life Paladin can turn at each level - if by turn you mean cower.

  13. #13
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    I just recently completed a tr cleric life, hit lv 18 soon as u18 hit- yay for reducing me to half power.

    Anyway, using the seek eternal rest spell, a silver flame, eternal faith item, on a radiant servant charisma 20, turned almost everything it hits.

    The easiest are high cr to low hd ratio undead like vampires(orchard quests), or giant skeletons(tor). Problems arise from the high hd monsters such as mummies{sands) and wraiths.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omniheals View Post
    Hi, my main toon has 3 Cleric past lives, which give +2 Cleric levels to turn undead (so, +6 for 3), and is currently on a Pally life, and I still cannot turn a single undead.


    Note I started with 16 base CHA, have an extra +2 CHA from Completionist, and am wearing a +6 CHA item at level 11, as well as a Silver Flame item, Sacred item, and an Eternal Faith item.

    Not only that, but I'm also A HotD, which adds extra CLR levels to turning.


    Basically, I am completely maxed out for Turning undead, without having started with 18 base CHA.





    So with all this, I still cannot Turn any undead in at-level content.

    ....so what's the point of turn undead again?
    I didn't see the spell seek eternal rest listed but I assume it was just an accidental omission. I don't turn undead myself but I've seen people tear it up in Deleras with turn undead in the past. It's been a while so it's possible something changed.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    That's real odd because my first life CLR turns Epic Hard Undead, only one or two at a time, but they still go boom after the Turn. Even the undead Giants in EH ToR go boom.
    Yeah, I have a turning cleric with a single cleric TR... He turns amazingly well at level (he's like 15 or so)...

    But I haven't played him in a while, so maybe something got broke...

    But since the OP said "turn undead is STILL broken", I'm assuming he's never tried turning undead in the last 2 years and is thinking of how bad turn undead was 4 years ago. Because turn undead has worked VERY well for a while now.

    NOTE: Remember, clerics get the PrE that lets you destroy undead when they would have just cowered. Paladins don't get that, so cowering is about as good as you're going to get as a Paladin. But if they cower, that means your turn undead is working.
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  16. #16
    Community Member SealedInSong's Avatar
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    Default 50/50 chance

    This past weekend, with a first life 8cleric/1bard/1fighter+Silver Flame Ring+Eternal Rest Ring+Seek Eternal Rest+16 CHA in Delera's elite, I had a roughly 50% chance (observational calculation, not hard math) to destroy undead and sometimes make them cower.

    With only a 1 in 2 chance to affect them, I resorted to ignoring turns completely in favor of radiant blasting them. I figured that using two turns to both heal myself and 100% chance to damage the crowd was better than banking on the chance of destroying some of them outright.

    I'd say you should do what the others suggested and carefully document your experience and bug report it...
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  17. #17
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SealedInSong View Post
    This past weekend, with a first life 8cleric/1bard/1fighter+Silver Flame Ring+Eternal Rest Ring+Seek Eternal Rest+16 CHA in Delera's elite, I had a roughly 50% chance (observational calculation, not hard math) to destroy undead and sometimes make them cower.

    With only a 1 in 2 chance to affect them, I resorted to ignoring turns completely in favor of radiant blasting them. I figured that using two turns to both heal myself and 100% chance to damage the crowd was better than banking on the chance of destroying some of them outright.

    I'd say you should do what the others suggested and carefully document your experience and bug report it...
    50/50 sounds about right:
    You aren't really spec'd for turning. Reasons are:
    1. You only have 8 levels of cleric.
    2. You have no cleric past lives
    3. You have low charisma: 16 CHA = +3 bonus. This means each time you turn, your effective level variance is anywhere from -2 to +4.

    Doing the math:
    Code:
    Your effective level: 
    +  8 cleric
    +  4 Eternal Faith (+2 level, +2 maxHD)
    +  4 Seek Eternal Rest
    +  1 Improved Turning I Enhancement
    ===============
    + 17 
    
    With variance of -2 to +4.  This should mean you can turn undead in the range of CR15-CR21.
    If the undead CR in the Elite Delera's you mentioned are within this range then it is WAI.

    Oh and no, if you have RS, you shouldn't 'occasionally' make them cower. If they are cowering, that means either you don't have RS or it's a bug.

    For more info on how Turn Undead mechanics:
    Cleric's Guide to Turn Undead.

  18. #18
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    My main, currently on his 7th life (2nd paladin life), has three past lives as a cleric. I have been blown away by how effective his turns are.

    In Rest for the Restless, elite at-level, he was turning entire corridors full of mobs, including the archers way up on the ledges that you have to kill before the gate will open.

    I believe that is only with Seek Eternal Rest cast and no other enhancements.
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  19. #19
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    2nd-3rd life cleric,
    turning/destroying everything except red nameds.
    top kills in some undead quests with 100+ kills

    gear: sacred, silverflame(6); token of the faithful(9) hallowed;SERspell; CHA:20+

    for any questions ingame mail me @thelanis --> Cranyum

  20. #20
    Uber Completionist luvirini's Avatar
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    Basically turn undead efficiency has changed a lot over the years, going from useless and impossible to easy and then useless again.

    Before U18, it was very powerful: My first life cleric with fairly good but not top of line gear and fairly low cha managed to turn stuff just fine.

    U18 made turning undead much harder, but still doable with enough gear and such, but "turn works almost all the time" is probably now out of reach for most first life clerics that are not well geared and built for such.

    Thus it is pretty much the same situation as was before they made turn undead work better some time in the past (too bad memory when, but somewhere in the U8-12 space I think)

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