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  1. #1
    Community Member Shmuel's Avatar
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    Default do what you want, buty you are hurting this game.

    I am not talking about Turbine or the devs. i am talking about all of you that have decided to "preorder" this expansion pack. It IS your money, but from my perspective you are reinforcing negative behavior on the part of WB/Turbine.

    They started selling this "expansion" before telling us what was in it. A few days later, after a lot of sales, they said there would not be a raid. They still have not said what level the quests are.

    Skill tomes and other PTW items are continually added to the DDO store for exorbitant prices ($7 for +1 UMD on one toon?).

    This is only called an expansion so they can charge more money for minimal content and force VIPs to shell out cash for content. 3 levels without increasing caster levels or much else additional power (we all know power after level 20 comes form EDs, which apparently are not being expanded on.)

    There are still dozens of unfixed bugs from the last expansion, over a year ago, which are not being fixed.

    Buying this stuff, especially without even knowing what you are being promised, let alone what will be actually delivered, only encourages this poor behavior on the company's part.

    Now, in all seriousness, will i eventually buy this pack myself? almost certainly. am i telling you what to do? no. but i am chastising you for your purchase and validation of this cynical and selfish business model, particularly as "preorder".

    and before the tired, sad old argument that if ppl stop buying then the game will be sent offline is brought up, let me just point out that if we continue to validate this business model this game will die because of the sad state of its development as people go elsewhere. and we will also be validating this business model for the entire gaming industry, which helps no one.
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  2. #2
    Community Member ~Skyblood's Avatar
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    Depends on the perspective view of the player. Overall, this game is loaded with a ton of bugs, but it is still my favorite MMO out there. I paid for the expansion to help support and keep turbines engines running. Without a cash inflow, this game will shut down sooner than later. And I honestly wish to keep the doors open.

  3. #3
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    I told people two and a half years ago to go premium and quit giving Turbine money until they put out quality. I guess many think that they are still getting quality, or just like supporting the cause.

    If people think that the game will last another 2 or 3 years, it still may be to their advantage to go premium and not keep blindly throwing money at Turbine. Not saying you, but most will keep paying their $10/month and then complaining here that the game sucks. If people would quit buying those stupid pets maybe Turbine would start selling something we want (bank space).

    I cannot say much about this though. Someone in game has already gifted me the expansion so Turbine will see me as another satisfied customer.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    I told people two and a half years ago to go premium and quit giving Turbine money until they put out quality. I guess many think that they are still getting quality, or just like supporting the cause.
    I dislike this "expansion" being basically only two updates rolled into one, and sold for 4x the normal cost. I'm not defending their decision here.

    But Turbine does put out quality. And you think it's quality too, or you wouldn't still be here after 2.5 years. I laugh every time someone calls this game "**** chock full of bugs" and then logs back in... It's sad that some have been doing it for 2.5 years.

    There's no moral high ground here. You like this game; you think it's more fun than 99% of all other games out there because you spend your time here. I don't mind you playing this game without contributing your fair share, but don't call me stupid while I pay for the servers that you enjoy.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Snaktail's Avatar
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    I love playing DDO, and I like the quality they put in, for the most part. It's one of my favorite games online. The last expansion was pretty good and I have high hopes for this one, especially with the new Iconic Heroes. To sit there and say you shouldn't pre-order the pack though, then turn around and say how you'll buy it later, is not only extremely contradicting, but hypocritical as well. Only difference between buying it now against buying it later is you get special stuff for it. Not really moved at all by the argument you've put before us.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I dislike this "expansion" being basically only two updates rolled into one, and sold for 4x the normal cost. I'm not defending their decision here.

    But Turbine does put out quality. And you think it's quality too, or you wouldn't still be here after 2.5 years. I laugh every time someone calls this game "**** chock full of bugs" and then logs back in... It's sad that some have been doing it for 2.5 years.

    There's no moral high ground here. You like this game; you think it's more fun than 99% of all other games out there because you spend your time here. I don't mind you playing this game without contributing your fair share, but don't call me stupid while I pay for the servers that you enjoy.
    Heh heh. Not saying you or anyone else is right or wrong here, but I would like to thank you Thrudh for paying for the forums upgrade as well. I know you enjoy them as much as the game that is not chock full of bugs.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I dislike this "expansion" being basically only two updates rolled into one, and sold for 4x the normal cost. I'm not defending their decision here.

    But Turbine does put out quality. And you think it's quality too, or you wouldn't still be here after 2.5 years. I laugh every time someone calls this game "**** chock full of bugs" and then logs back in... It's sad that some have been doing it for 2.5 years.

    There's no moral high ground here. You like this game; you think it's more fun than 99% of all other games out there because you spend your time here. I don't mind you playing this game without contributing your fair share, but don't call me stupid while I pay for the servers that you enjoy.
    You are right that I am still here after 2.5 years. I have paid many times in that time as well as the 5 previous years when I was VIP. And I still do enjoy this game.

    IMO, quality goes much further than having “fewer bugs”. I can understand Turbine not giving me an augment bag or letting me use UMD as my free tome (they need my dirty premium money), but why do they not give this to the monthly paying VIP? Are they not happy until they fleece everyone?

    This is the quality I speak of. Many have also been along the “fool me once” with the expansion. It is not just me and the “Turbine bashers” that are saying this.

    My fair share has been paid as well. Though I have only paid about $120 over the past 2.5 years, my account will reflect that I have spent nearly $500. There is no moral ground to this either. You and I are both lemmings. Turbine will keep adding in the cash grab and bait and switch facets to the game. I agree with the OP that if we quit blindly throwing money at all their schemes maybe they would give us what we want, not just more of the same old BS that we see in the store.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vint View Post
    You are right that I am still here after 2.5 years. I have paid many times in that time as well as the 5 previous years when I was VIP. And I still do enjoy this game.

    IMO, quality goes much further than having “fewer bugs”. I can understand Turbine not giving me an augment bag or letting me use UMD as my free tome (they need my dirty premium money), but why do they not give this to the monthly paying VIP? Are they not happy until they fleece everyone?

    This is the quality I speak of. Many have also been along the “fool me once” with the expansion. It is not just me and the “Turbine bashers” that are saying this.

    My fair share has been paid as well. Though I have only paid about $120 over the past 2.5 years, my account will reflect that I have spent nearly $500. There is no moral ground to this either. You and I are both lemmings. Turbine will keep adding in the cash grab and bait and switch facets to the game. I agree with the OP that if we quit blindly throwing money at all their schemes maybe they would give us what we want, not just more of the same old BS that we see in the store.
    The reason they "fleece" vips, is because it's industry standard, and the people that run MMOs know how to run MMOs better than the players do. If a different business model was better for the MMO (like Turbine's USED to be), one of these people would figure it out and build a self-sustaining, long lasting, MMO built on this premise. These people are smarter in their fields than the players here, and the fact that no one is doing it, and those who were doing it have moved away from it, tells me it doesn't work.

  9. #9
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I dislike this "expansion" being basically only two updates rolled into one, and sold for 4x the normal cost. I'm not defending their decision here.
    I won't defend their decision but I do believe I understand the reasoning. Turbine's previous expansion was pretty large and as a result they weren't able to debug it much at all before it released. Not that Turbine is going to necessarily do a better job this time but I do recall CitW being practically unplayable for a good month after release. What I definitely dislike is their attempt to try to convince everyone that $50 (and potentially $40 more for an "upgrade") is a good deal. MotU at least had some nice motivation items included to convince me immediately to purchase it but this has very little truly calling to me.
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  10. #10
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    I am rather lucky I saw this thread before I preorder. Under which conditions am I allowed to preorder?

  11. #11

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    Meh, I am unpersuaded by your argument. I relatively happy with the state of the game. That isn't to say that it is bug free or that there are no issues I'd like to see addressed, but I am still relatively happy with it despite those issues. If I wasn't, I'd do something else. The time is more relevant to me than the money.

    As to the pre-order itself, it isn't that big a deal to me that there is no raid. Raiding is DDO isn't very good anyway, there is 1, mabye 2 raids that they have release all told that I'd call good. Most are just 12 man quests. And regardless, I bought the pre-order for what it was promised to contain, things like the epic lesser tome of learning per character, the skill tomes per character, the owlbear (it amuses me more then being directly useful. But its a game, its true purpose is to amuse), the pets (my girlfriend loves those), the iconic heroes, plus the fact I'll buy the content eventually. Just like I have been happy with the preorder perks from MotU, I am happy with these. The content is almost more of a bonus. For example, if it was just the content, they could have said it'll have a dozen raids, and 90 quests, and I'd still wait to buy it - unless they gave me a perk for pre-ordering. I pre-ordered for the perks of pre-ordering, not the content.

  12. #12
    The Hatchery
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    Turbine won't change, and they're in the same boat as pretty much every other MMO company ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    Skill tomes and other PTW items are continually added to the DDO store for exorbitant prices ($7 for +1 UMD on one toon?).
    Skill tomes are not PTW, the bonus that they give is almost entirely unnoticeable (except in the case of UMD).

  13. #13
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    Now, in all seriousness, will i eventually buy this pack myself? almost certainly. am i telling you what to do? no. but i am chastising you for your purchase and validation of this cynical and selfish business model, particularly as "preorder".
    So you are telling us we are hurting the game by pre-ordering the expansion but then admit further along in the post that you intend to buy the content as well? Does the term hypocrite mean anything to you? If there truly is a problem as you say, you are just as guilty.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    So you are telling us we are hurting the game by pre-ordering the expansion but then admit further along in the post that you intend to buy the content as well? Does the term hypocrite mean anything to you? If there truly is a problem as you say, you are just as guilty.
    Almost 100% sure the OP is trying to make a humorous statement in reaction to the anti-buying pack threads.

    I think....

    Otherwise, going by a number of statements in what he wrote - I'm pretty damned confused.
    Add Shifters as a PC race - please.

  15. #15
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huthor View Post
    Almost 100% sure the OP is trying to make a humorous statement in reaction to the anti-buying pack threads.
    Not enough indications of humor in his post so I doubt that is the case.
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  16. #16
    Community Member DynaTheCat's Avatar
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    I don't think Turbine is a dog... like.... if we beat turbine enough with the "no purchase" beat stick, turbine will roll over and do what we want....

    I'm pretty sure Warner brothers will take the dip in profits as a sign to make even worse and more drastic money schemes and NOT better content.

    OP really wants to see the shard runearm come true.

    In fact, I can already see a system where you pay a monthly shard fee to "unlock" your epic items for use.

    And if you don't have the shards, well.... you'll have to use rand gen gear until you get some shards.

  17. #17
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    I pre-purchased the expansion for myself and 2 other people even though I have serious doubts about whether I will be playing the game one year from now. I thought the last expansion was good.

    It's just like any other form of entertainment you buy it for the enjoyment you get now - not in the future. DDO may not even be around next year - nothing is guaranteed.

    I think Turbine made a really great game, but I sincerely doubt they are well run enough to respond to any sort of crisis that comes up regarding a revenue shortfall. The more likely result is some knee-jerk reaction that has just as much chance of making things worse than better.

    Any management change they make is most likely to determine whether it's better to close DDO, attempt to merge the customer base with LOTRO or sell it if they can find a buyer. A shake-up likely won't make things any better.
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  18. #18
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DynaTheCat View Post
    I don't think Turbine is a dog... like.... if we beat turbine enough with the "no purchase" beat stick, turbine will roll over and do what we want....
    That analogy is so terrible and nonsensical I don't know how to approach it.

  19. #19
    Community Member FlaviusMaximus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    So you are telling us we are hurting the game by pre-ordering the expansion but then admit further along in the post that you intend to buy the content as well? Does the term hypocrite mean anything to you? If there truly is a problem as you say, you are just as guilty.
    He admits to the hypocrisy and is being honest about supporting the bad business model. I'm not sure why you think you are discovering something here.

  20. #20
    The Hatchery whomhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shmuel View Post
    and before the tired, sad old argument that if ppl stop buying then the game will be sent offline is brought up, let me just point out that if we continue to validate this business model this game will die because of the sad state of its development as people go elsewhere. and we will also be validating this business model for the entire gaming industry, which helps no one.
    So... we are hurting the game by buying stuff, and yet killing the game by not buying stuff? We need to send a message to Turbine, even though by your definition doing so hurts the messenger (us)? I am thinking you need to fine-tune your righteously indignant rhetoric a bit before it is ready for prime-time here on the forums.

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