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  1. #1
    Community Member omastar444's Avatar
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    Default The Forgotten Realms Blues

    Let me preface this by saying, this thread will more then likely be spammed with hatred to all hell, but I don't care. I just want to know if anyone out there feels like I do and maybe, just maybe, I can get a dev response as to why.

    I started DDO soon after the F2P lanuch. Originally I wasn't going to but I saw it was set in Eberron. I had owned the Eberron handbook for a while and loved the world so I had to play. The game had me hooked from day one. The world was interesting, combat was quick paced and fun, and the characters were interesting. I had to keep playing. Much buying latter, I had bought every adventure pack, race, class, and several character slots. The world was getting bigger. Each update was a chance to explore this weird but fantastic world and this filled me with joy.

    Then came the announcement of MOTU. The second I heard it was FR, I knew DDO was changing and not in a good way. Everything about FR has been mapped for years. I was a fan of FR for a long time but I found it quickly got old. And to find out the devs were focusing mostly on FR angered me greatly. Every DDO game is set in FR. It was Eberron that made DDO special. Now I meet every update with not the joy I once felt, but sadness and anger at a world I find boring and bland. A world not of bright vibrant colors like Eberron but of dulled, bland colors like every older D&D game. It has gotten to the point I can't even find a reason to log on any more. The world I love has been forgotten to a realm that is anything but forgotten as it's name suggests.

    It feels as if the devs have caved in to making DDO more mainstream D&D. And here I sit. Waiting for the day Drizzit appears and I quit DDO.

    And to this I wonder. Am I the only one? Am I the only one that wants more Eberron? Is there a really reason the devs have abandoned this lovely world of mysteries for a world that has none? I just want to know, is there anyone out there who knows how I feel about this?

  2. #2
    Community Member Inferno346's Avatar
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    No, this is a common sentiment, to the point that your post approaches CJ material. Other people dislike both settings and have their own suggestions. Pretty much any anti-Turbine opinion will gain you a trickle of supporters.

    I'd prefer a more personal approach. I mean, when I was a kid, we built our own goddamn universes. Using someone else's universe feels dirty. It's like halfway to fanfiction.
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  3. #3
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    As long as the quests, loot, story etc are good I am indifferent to the setting. A varied approach suits me fine. Its not like the quests or wildernesses in FR differ markedly from the ones in EB so why should it even matter?

    So, no, I dont have the FR blues, or EB blues or indeed any particular setting blues.

  4. #4
    Community Member delsoboss's Avatar
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    DISCLAIMER(s):
    1) don't know if i made sense
    2) sorry for the wall of text
    3) i know very little about Eberron

    You're not the only one to feel like this, quite the opposite really.

    Every thread in this forums about the different settings gets blitzed by the Eberron enthusiast crowd that drowns the FR supporters and there is a sprinkle of isolated Ravenloft or Dragonlance nostalgics here and there.

    Personally i like FR more than Eberron, i can't get into the steam-punkish feeling (yeah i know it's not steam punk, but it feels that way to me at least) and when i don't want to stick to the medieval fantasy rpg type i just turn to other rpgs.

    Everytime i read someone talking about FR here it's always described as "bland and boring" or the "land of Drizzt and Elminster" and i don't quite get it, probably because i never read the novels and sticked to the game guides.

    I kind of get the reasoning behind the argument about the "too many heroes" but really there are a lot of things in the FR to do and there is no short supplies of villains and baddies to keep your parties occupied.

    It's the "bland and boring" part that i don't get: FR is huge, it's not all about the North and Waterdeep and the Sword Coast, saying that everything in FR is bland and boring is an outright lie.

    Even restricting ourselves to the glimpses at the settings that we get here in DDO i must say that Eberron is completely butchered by the overabundance of arcane (wizs, sorcs and arties) warforgeds.
    That's a pretty big no-no lore wise that for me defeats the entire purpose of trying to stick to a given setting and it's lore and i can't help but notice that all the Eberron enthusiasts on the forums just ignore this issue in every lore/setting debate.

    What am i trying (very badly) to say is that in DDO we get a pretty coherent and at first glance solid introduction to both settings, with Eberron being presented deeper with all the references at the past ages (quori, giants and dragons wars, hobgoblin empires, creation myths) and FR harmstrung by the epic fail that the setting rework in 4th ed brought.

    Both settings are present, both have their shinies and both have their downsides in their transposition in this game.
    Saying things like "i don't like the lore of FR, Eberron lore is much better" is perfectly fine.
    Threatening to leave the game if it gets more FR content on the "i want to stick with the lore i prefer" basis, while ignoring the pretty big misstep in the handling of Eberron lore that DDO's warforged-mania is, is childish in my eyes.

    Either you want rigid, coherent, lore accurate, setting sticking gameplay everywhere or you don't.
    Either you play the conservative, Eberron enthusiast, lore fanatic across the board or you don't go s******g on others parade because you don't like one hero in the FR setting.

  5. #5
    Community Member Aeron1976's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Agreed

    Hi,

    i have to fully agree with you. I loved the Eberron setting since it was different and i was the major player not Drizz't, the Seven Sisters or like we have now Elminster (and Ana!?).

    Personally I'm looking forward to more Eberron quests since that storyline is "new", everything in FR happened already.

    I played quite a lot PnP in FR and read most books so the storyline is getting old.

    I honestly can not understand the cries for more FR since nearly all other D&D oriented games focus there.

    So Devs: Please return to create more Eberron quests.

    Thank you

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by omastar444 View Post
    And to this I wonder. Am I the only one? Am I the only one that wants more Eberron? Is there a really reason the devs have abandoned this lovely world of mysteries for a world that has none? I just want to know, is there anyone out there who knows how I feel about this?
    I would have hoped that someone with a long-term perspective of the game as you have wouldn't be falling into this trap.

    U17 = Epic Gianthold and the conclusion of the Stormreaver Prophecy storyline
    U18 = Introduces the Shadowfell Conspiracy storyline that we'll be seeing more in the August expansion

    Back in Eberron we still have the Droam and Daughters of Sora Kell storyline to return to.
    We haven't touched Sharn apart from a brief Syndicate intervention (Sharn not Shar ... like that won't get confusing )

    There are any number of stories that we can return to. Faerun will get developed of course, but Turbine have already said that Eberron won't be abandoned, nor should it be. But don't be surprised if there is a 2:1 ratio of storyline development between the two realms.

    The crazy thing is, that to head off this thread and others like it, all we really need is a strong commitment statement from the Executive Producers to continue developing Eberron. Whether you believe it or trust such a statement is up to you.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    I've never had much invested in any D&D franchise. Baldur's Gate was, I think, my first introduction to Forgotten Realms, DDO my first to Eberron.

    FWIW, I do feel that it was a mistake to have Warforged as a playable race, but DDO is from a time when every MMO had to have "unique player race" as one of the bullet points.

    My take on adding FR to DDO was that lore and coherence of the game were entirely disregarded at the altar of nostalgia dollars. If it was just that the giants-and-dragons setting was getting tired, there are a thousand places in Eberron to provide variety to the setting. Instead we get the most generic and heavily-used of D&D franchises, whose sole "advantage" over somewhere new in Eberron is its familiarity to fanboys.The presence of Elminster, so immediately in the MoTU content, I hold as evidence of that.

    Though I do still hold out hope that the whole Forgotten Realms thing is another Quori plot, which will climax in a high-level raid where we slaughter an army of Drizzts.

  8. #8
    Community Member zappazpot's Avatar
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    To my knowledge, i believe that DDO only has access to Xendrik. Something about the wizards of the coast blah blah blah. Anyway i agree 100%, i never got into D&D but when i first played DDO i was expecting some boring typical mid fantasy setting. But to my surprise it wasn't, unlike the other guy i love the steam-punk feel of EB it reminds me of the first rpg i played (Arcanum).

    When they first added FR content m initial reaction was meh whatever. Even though i now own MOTU i have yet to run a single CiTW flagging quest, mainly because i cant stand the lore. I would just love to see them got back to EB, its too many unanswered questions. I want.......no need MORE EB!!!
    "I'll get the one in the back. That's one hobgoblin who'll regret ever lifting a bow."

  9. #9
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delsoboss View Post


    It's the "bland and boring" part that i don't get: FR is huge, it's not all about the North and Waterdeep and the Sword Coast, saying that everything in FR is bland and boring is an outright lie.
    It's the part where probably 90% of FR content that gets put out can be sumed up with these words.

    Drow, Underdark, Lolth, Evil, Bad, Danger, Beware

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by omastar444 View Post
    Everything about FR has been mapped for years.
    I can relate to your feelings, except for this one statement right here; maybe what you meant is: 'FR have always been treated in the various media in the same old fashioned way, which got old pretty fast and was never changed'. But some parts of the FR are still to be exploited, methinks.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by zappazpot View Post
    When they first added FR content m initial reaction was meh whatever. Even though i now own MOTU i have yet to run a single CiTW flagging quest, mainly because i cant stand the lore. I would just love to see them got back to EB, its too many unanswered questions. I want.......no need MORE EB!!!
    You're missing something, at least give it a try. If only for the huge wilderness areas, the grouping opportunities, the loot. I mean, we can debate all day, but if you haven't tried it, your point is moot.

  12. #12
    Community Member delsoboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    It's the part where probably 90% of FR content that gets put out can be sumed up with these words.

    Drow, Underdark, Lolth, Evil, Bad, Danger, Beware
    Lol, maybe.

    That's like saying that since DDO is full of warforged and giants fighting dragons then Eberron is just warforged and giants fighting dragons.

    Evil, Bad, Danger and Beware belong into any setting since, well, without evil dangers what would adventurers do?

    Lolth worshipping Underdark drows wipe the floor with the pathetic excuses of drows you have in Eberron.

    FR content is getting expanded upon, we got shadows, werewolves and mad plants/druids already, so give it time and we'll get a more varied experience ... i hope.

    Eberron is not only kobolds like someone playing thourgh the harbor quests may think, FR will not be only drows once we have a good number of quests there.

  13. #13
    Community Member omastar444's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadlock View Post
    I would have hoped that someone with a long-term perspective of the game as you have wouldn't be falling into this trap.

    U17 = Epic Gianthold and the conclusion of the Stormreaver Prophecy storyline
    U18 = Introduces the Shadowfell Conspiracy storyline that we'll be seeing more in the August expansion

    Back in Eberron we still have the Droam and Daughters of Sora Kell storyline to return to.
    We haven't touched Sharn apart from a brief Syndicate intervention (Sharn not Shar ... like that won't get confusing )

    There are any number of stories that we can return to. Faerun will get developed of course, but Turbine have already said that Eberron won't be abandoned, nor should it be. But don't be surprised if there is a 2:1 ratio of storyline development between the two realms.

    The crazy thing is, that to head off this thread and others like it, all we really need is a strong commitment statement from the Executive Producers to continue developing Eberron. Whether you believe it or trust such a statement is up to you.
    If the devs focused even half of the effort from FR into Eberron, I'd wouldn't be here. Epic Gianthold was nice but has been in the works for a LONG time. If we got a statement from someone higher up confirming Eberron hasn't been thrown to the waist side from FR, I'd be very happy as "Not abandoned" could simply mean making epic versions of quests from time to time.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by delsoboss View Post
    Lol, maybe.

    That's like saying that since DDO is full of warforged and giants fighting dragons then Eberron is just warforged and giants fighting dragons.

    Evil, Bad, Danger and Beware belong into any setting since, well, without evil dangers what would adventurers do?

    Lolth worshipping Underdark drows wipe the floor with the pathetic excuses of drows you have in Eberron.

    FR content is getting expanded upon, we got shadows, werewolves and mad plants/druids already, so give it time and we'll get a more varied experience ... i hope.

    Eberron is not only kobolds like someone playing thourgh the harbor quests may think, FR will not be only drows once we have a good number of quests there.
    My one point of departure with you is on the subject of Eberron Drow. I LIKE how they're vastly different from the typical Lolth worshippers of Greyhawk and FR and yet aren't true jokes like the so-called "Dark Elves" of Krynn. The Drow of Eberron have their own racial, cultural, and religious identity right down to their own answer to Driders, the Scorrow.

  15. #15
    Community Member omastar444's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delsoboss View Post
    It's the "bland and boring" part that i don't get: FR is huge, it's not all about the North and Waterdeep and the Sword Coast, saying that everything in FR is bland and boring is an outright lie.
    Sadly, most D&D games in FR are based around the same areas thou. I feel if the devs wanted to explore into parts of FR most games don't touch, I'm cool with that as long as they don't forget the world that made them big in the first place. Eberron has just as many, if not more, unexplored and underutilized places. We've barely touched the tip of Xen'drik. And right now it just feels like they are going full force into charted waters in FR and leaving Eberron behind like a bad apple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by omastar444 View Post
    Sadly, most D&D games in FR are based around the same areas thou. I feel if the devs wanted to explore into parts of FR most games don't touch, I'm cool with that as long as they don't forget the world that made them big in the first place. Eberron has just as many, if not more, unexplored and underutilized places. We've barely touched the tip of Xen'drik. And right now it just feels like they are going full force into charted waters in FR and leaving Eberron behind like a bad apple.
    Still want that Jungles of Chult expansion... That'd make even the most jaded FR hater come around if done right.

  17. #17
    The Hatchery Galeria's Avatar
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    I am not impressed with the Forgotten Realms at all. To me, Eberron is infinitely more interesting than another generic medieval setting.

    But, as a business person, they would be idiotic to ignore the massive popularity of the Forgotten Realms. It seems logical that the tens of thousands of D&D fans might be swayed to try the game if it were based on their favorite campaign setting.

    The problem is, said fanbois and fangurls are dumped into the game halfway through it already, with no idea of the mechanics or unwritten rules that most players learn in the Harbor. The rules are not the same as the tabletop game, leading to poor online builds that would have rocked a tabletop game. Frustrating.

    Then they are tossed into groups with longtime players who care nothing for "playing like it was D&D" who steamroll through quests for max XP and quick loot while their undergeared, underplayed and unfamiliar characters wander around, lost at the first turn or dead in a trap that everyone else knew to avoid.

    Dropping newbs into level 15 content is what is going to discourage new players from getting attached to the game. I understand that they chose not to create a starter area and low level quests in FR, but forcing dedicated fans into the grinder at level 15 (where XP starts to get slim and quests get harder to solo, especially if you are new) is setting people up to fail. Not a good way to build the addiction they want.
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  18. #18
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omastar444 View Post
    ...
    I was never a forgotten realms fan... even in second Edition... when FR was halfway good.

    EDIT: I said halfway good!
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  19. #19
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inferno346 View Post
    No, this is a common sentiment, to the point that your post approaches CJ material. Other people dislike both settings and have their own suggestions. Pretty much any anti-Turbine opinion will gain you a trickle of supporters.

    I'd prefer a more personal approach. I mean, when I was a kid, we built our own goddamn universes. Using someone else's universe feels dirty. It's like halfway to fanfiction.
    It could go the whole way to fan fiction.... imagine Elminster getting intimate with Mr Spock... or something.

    http://lotr.adultfanfiction.net/story.php?no=600080066
    kruemeli of Orien - Leader of the "Merry" Hobbits https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5002220
    It is okay to be "merry": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOOKb-DFZs
    I just Keep quiet and think.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYP8M06A8W0

  20. #20
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omastar444 View Post
    is there anyone out there who knows how I feel about this?
    A lot of people that played when we just had Eberron feel this way.

    Eberron is a "Steam Punk" type world vs. Faerun is a "Terra" based one.

    The mechanical nature of Eberron is much more diverse than the straight forward "linear" setting of Faerun.

    Both settings appeal to different people, as to be expected.

    Not only are the worlds different, but the design team we have now is also. (in whole)

    Not to take away from the content that has been designed since MotU was released, but, there isn't half the creativity we saw in earlier content.

    For me that is the reason why I agree with the OP.

    I have 100% more fun running old content than ANY of the new stuff. U18 is a clear indication of lackluster content I'm referring to.
    In fact the new content (U18) is so mundane, I'll run it once for favor, and never again.

    I'll give an example of how polarized old vs. new is.

    Titan vs. Caught in the Web

    Titan you have puzzles, traps, whistles, bells & gizmos, taking you through a well thought out and complex dungeon. Able to challenge every class and player.

    CitW you don't need anything but melee & someone with dipplo. AND on top of that it's yet another "escort" quest. ZERO challenge, (ran it last night w/ all melee no casters & 1 fvs)

    As it was stated last year, Faerun is going to be fully developed. For me that is one of the reasons I know my time in this game is diminishing and waning.


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