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  1. #1
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    Default New player! Looking for some advice on a Support and/or CC build!

    Hey Everyone! Recently downloaded and fell in love with DDO. After fiddling around a bit, I'd love some advice on making a decent attempt at my first 'real' character.

    The role of support/crowd control has always been appealing and I'd love to see if it can work in DDO. I love the idea of locking down enemies, debuffing, and indirect support. I'm open to a 'healing build' but trying to stay away from it, subtlety is more my style. It seems like Enchantment is a good tree to take a gander at, though I hear it hard-holds aren't as effective later on or against bosses.

    Class-wise, Sorcerer seems like a hoot, though Wizard is probably better suited for what I'm after since the advanced class options are a bit more broad than the "elementalist" options the Sorcerer has.

    So here are my questions, though feel free to add on any info! I'm a bit new, so I'm not 100% sure I even know what to ask

    1. Is a CC/Support char even worth rolling or is that spec useless/unwanted versus just being a traditional healer/DPS?
    2. Which spells generally perform well, are sought-after in groups, and will help me be an asset rather than a liability?
    3. Are there any guides sitting around I might leverage? Many of the forum links from Google seem to be broken. :-/

    Thanks so much!

  2. #2

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    1. Is a CC/Support char even worth rolling or is that spec useless/unwanted versus just being a traditional healer/DPS?
    Well, not really. I suppose you could focus on just being CC/support and contribute to groups, but the more common option is to be cc/support AND offensive all in one character.

    2. Which spells generally perform well, are sought-after in groups, and will help me be an asset rather than a liability?
    (Mass) Holds, dancing ball and greater command are the big three for group-friendly cc. For non-enchantment cc there's web, cometfall, cyclonic/sonic blast, earthquake, ice storm, etc...

    3. Are there any guides sitting around I might leverage? Many of the forum links from Google seem to be broken. :-/
    Maybe, but like you said Turbine went and broke all their links, and the forum search feature blows. So pretty much no, there are no longer any guides.

    They aren't really what you're describing, but both my necro cleric and pale trapper builds have solid CC. (Links in signature.)

  3. #3
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    @EllisDee37

    Thanks for the quick reply!

    1. I'm fine with picking up some offensive abilities as well. Are groups generally ok if I'm "support/cc focused but DD capable"?

    2. That's a nice list of spells! I love the enchantment school. I'm worried about boss performance, but I like the idea of combining enchantment with necro stuff

    3. Your Pale Trapper build looks interesting! I'll definitely give that a read-over.

    Thanks again!

  4. #4
    Community Member Fleckislaupir's Avatar
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    First off, welcome to DDO.

    Second, bear in mind bosses are immune to most or all CC effects, so you need to be able to do something else useful during boss fights. [Technically, "pike" is an option, but it won't make you very popular... ]

    Third, there's not much point in playing only a CC build, because every class with great CC abilities has access to other abilities too. Archmage Enchanter? Plenty of great DPS spells as a wizard, of course; and all that Spell Pen you pick up for Mass Hold etc. meshes well with Necro's instakills. CC-focused Spellsinger? You should also make a great healer, as well as all their buffs. Cleric or FvS focused on Greater Command & Cometfall still has access to Blade Barrier, Implosion, etc. A druid who likes Earthquake also has a lot of other AoE DPS options. You get the idea: no matter what class you pick, you're selling yourself short if you try to focus only on CC.

    Plus, let's face it, DDO is a game about killing monsters (sorry, Greenpeace!); CCing mobs is all well & good, but CCing and DPSing them is better.
    The Once and Future unbongwah

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleckislaupir View Post
    First off, welcome to DDO.

    Second, bear in mind bosses are immune to most or all CC effects, so you need to be able to do something else useful during boss fights. [Technically, "pike" is an option, but it won't make you very popular... ]

    Third, there's not much point in playing only a CC build, because every class with great CC abilities has access to other abilities too. Archmage Enchanter? Plenty of great DPS spells as a wizard, of course; and all that Spell Pen you pick up for Mass Hold etc. meshes well with Necro's instakills. CC-focused Spellsinger? You should also make a great healer, as well as all their buffs. Cleric or FvS focused on Greater Command & Cometfall still has access to Blade Barrier, Implosion, etc. A druid who likes Earthquake also has a lot of other AoE DPS options. You get the idea: no matter what class you pick, you're selling yourself short if you try to focus only on CC.

    Plus, let's face it, DDO is a game about killing monsters (sorry, Greenpeace!); CCing mobs is all well & good, but CCing and DPSing them is better.
    Haha thanks for the welcome! Excited to figure it all out and get on my way!

    I totally acknowledge that CC isn't a dedicated role like it was in some EQ2 dungeons or DAoC. It's still a facet of combat I love and enjoy. I think a healthy mix of CC, debuffs, and damage sounds like a good compromise for the game and myself.

    Regarding the necro instakills, do they happen enough that it's 'worth it' or should I look elsewhere? If I focus on Necro and Enchanting, will I have a good enough bredth of spells to be effective or am I better of focusing on Damage and leaving the Control skills as secondary options?

    Right now, I'm looking at Necro/Enchanting Wizard as a focus, but starting to consider Conjuration/Evocation spells as well, if damage is more welcomed than Control/Support

  6. #6
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelthien View Post
    So here are my questions, though feel free to add on any info! I'm a bit new, so I'm not 100% sure I even know what to ask

    1. Is a CC/Support char even worth rolling or is that spec useless/unwanted versus just being a traditional healer/DPS?
    It is most definitely wanted, but usually for only the first month of the release of a new pack. After that, groups have generally built strategies around not having/using CC.

    2. Which spells generally perform well, are sought-after in groups, and will help me be an asset rather than a liability?
    Generally speaking, Spellsinger Bards are #1 (Thanks to Drow) with Wizard being #2. AM and PM seem to be about equal with SP advantage going to AM thanks to the multiple SLA's in CC.

    As far as specific spells, once you play the class you will learn when one spell/ability is needed over another. Web doesn't always work just like Disco may may not work either. CC's can be very situational from adventure to adventure. And some spells stink because of the coding of the spell (which will most likely never be addressed).

    3. Are there any guides sitting around I might leverage? Many of the forum links from Google seem to be broken. :-/
    As far as builds, look in the "Class" section and look for Spellsinger Bard builds and similar and in the Wizard section for AM/PM builds. There will be plenty of PM builds but not many AM builds simply because of the answer to number #1. PM builds will give you enough CC until groups discover different workable tactics after the release of an adventure pack.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelthien View Post
    Regarding the necro instakills, do they happen enough that it's 'worth it' or should I look elsewhere? If I focus on Necro and Enchanting, will I have a good enough bredth of spells to be effective or am I better of focusing on Damage and leaving the Control skills as secondary options?
    If you build for insta-kills, they work remarkably well in all content up through epic hard. Epic elite is where DC casting (which includes CC) stops working, and it really becomes a completely different game.

    I personally don't play EE. Sure I'll do EE ADQ and Chrono in my guild runs, but for questing I generally stick to EH. I find it more fun and more true to what DDO is all about.

    My pale trapper insta-kills with 95% effectiveness (fail on a 1) in 90% of EH content. So, every 10 seconds or so I can pick a specific mob to just die, and every minute I can wail up to 6 mobs dead in one spell.

    My necro cleric's insta-kills are slightly less effective, but he has double chances. Figure 75% effectiveness in 90% of EH content, but he gets to target a specific mob to just die twice every 10 seconds.

    They both are competent damage dealers, but if you want to focus on damage instead of insta-kills a sorcerer might be a better fit. Unfortunately sorcerers kind of require warforged, which is a pay race. (Even if you always group and your groups always have divines, you still really want to be self-healing. The group won't always be able to stand next to each other in all quests.)

    Right now, I'm looking at Necro/Enchanting Wizard as a focus, but starting to consider Conjuration/Evocation spells as well, if damage is more welcomed than Control/Support
    Either combo is fine. Lots of people love web, but I never really warmed up to it due to the fact that so many enemy caster spells remove them. Basically, if there's an enemy cleric, kiss your webs goodbye. Any enemy caster can remove webs, but clerics in particular almost always remove them.

    Generally speaking, when grouping if you lose a dps caster it's no big deal. If you lose the CC caster, well, depending on the quest you might have to wait around for another CC caster to join. Meaning if you CC, you provide a role that your party may require.

  8. #8
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Webs are nice but they are situational. As other people have mentioned, they can get blown away from various sources (like a fireball from someone in your own party). Still, with mobs that have a high SR (spell resistance) they are pretty much your go to CC spell.

    That being said, since you expressed such an interest in the enchantment line, you should also take into consideration a decent investment in spell penetration, as this is one of the big roadblocks that will start to show up in higher levels. You start running into a lot of mobs with SR, so you need to break that before you can start worrying about DCs and saving throws.

    (And yeah, I’m always beating the spell pen drum.)

    As for instakills, they are somewhat situational, though these too are also subject to SR. But instakills are the bread-and-buffer of a PM, and really, really fun to pull off. Right now my PM (it was an AM before with the same focus) does Necro and Enchant, and does it fairly effectively. So that route is more than open to you to invest in.

    As for the type of CC you should lay down, consider the following:

    1) Grease – doorways fighting humanoids. Follow it up with a fireball for some nice fireworks.

    2) Web – constructs, non-ghostly undead, and anything that has a fair SR value.

    3) Dancing spells (the Ottos line of spells) pretty much for anything except oozes, undead, and brainless stuff. Use this at pinch-points in combat areas to ensnare overly-active mobs or waves of mobs. This is often better than holds because the area of effect persists, and it has a higher chance of ensnaring a mob as it moves around repositioning itself.

    4) Hold spells (hold monster, hold person, etc.) - same as the dancing spells, but used for fixed groups that are clustered together. This is actually better for the melees because I believe they get autocrits in some instances.

    5) Stone to flesh – a very situational, but very helpful spell whose best purpose is to immobilize one mob so that you can kill all of his compatriots, but leave him alone. In some quests, killing all of one type of mob or the other creates respawns. Freezing one and keeping him disabled is a great tactic in these circumstances. You can also do this with Ottos Irresistable dance, but Stone to Flesh has a better range on it.

    6) Charm person / monster. Not used much with groups, very effective if you solo as it creates insta-DPS. However, good to pull out if your party is getting its ass handed to it in the melee department.

    The biggest thing you’ll have to work on is targeting. Webs and Grease work better when laid down in areas before mobs approach (as the same with dancing balls). Hold is better if you can sneak up on a mob and cast it undetected. Get used to using your mouse to target independently of the Tab key.

    This all being said, make sure you have damage-dealing spells as a backup. A nice one is Ice Storm and/or Wall of Fire as you can pummel mobs in the same area of effect that they are ensnared in.

  9. #9
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Wow. The profanity filter didn't catch a word.

    My apoligies. Unintended wrd was used.

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