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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    You know, for a game that promotes moving combat as one of its top assets, they sure have put alot of mechanics into the game that require people to stand still now in order to benefit from damage increases.
    Likely just a realization that their mob AI simply isn't up to the task of being competitive at moving combat, especially at range. Though with this games tendency to ignore the game's limitations when adding features this would seem doubtful.

  2. #42
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Haha man you crack me try noobcher instead of smart monkcher. You can tell you have barely ever played an archer. I still use it a lot personnally. It is great in FOT actually on the stromreaver and truthful one. We tank both those targets so an archer really does not have to move and quite frankly I would not want to anyway because that would decrease my dps because that might mean miss shots on those two targets with movement. Yeah moving as an archer might actually mean missing shots so unless your getting IPS lined (not needed in FOT) or avoided damage shrug. Most quests on boss's it actually is useful presuming the bosses havea little hit points. I just used it in Madstone Epic Elite on teh skellly bosses myself the other day on my ranged ranger.

    monkeyarcher did have some good suggestsion I especially wish it took less long to get to 30%.
    You imply I'm a n00b, then basically repeat EXACTLY what I said as what a person should do.

    Congratulations, you fail at reading.

    I specifically said AF pre-u18 silliness pretty much only shined during EE boss fights (for example, the skeletons in madstone - end-boss is not the only boss in that quest), special encounters (like dragons in Tor), and raids (FoT). Outside of those cases, you're much more efficient from a CC standpoint (Otto's Whistler and Pin) and DPS standpoint (2+ enemies = 2x or more damage) using IPS, as it's rather easy to hit at least two enemies at once.

    Nice try, please play again.
    Last edited by WruntJunior; 05-23-2013 at 08:05 PM.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  3. #43
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    Hooray.... lets do MORE stand and shoot! Just when you think Turbine did something right, having a compliment to IPS with AF not having movement as the lynchpin, they totally redeem themselves and changed it to a stand and shoot bonus. AWESOME. Changes like this lately is part of the reason I am playing a LOT less lately. The other reason is the game is a bit stale of late... another miniscule content update with a bunch of fixes, some good, some like this one not good at all... when I log in I see less and less friends online in my friends list. And... STILL no enhancement update. Hey at least they are finding new ways to charge us extra for content.
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  4. #44
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    Hey Turbine? Guys? This game is not a movie. We will never be able to replicate Hawkeye standing there on some building and playing death turret or Robin Hood doing the epic aiming at the bad guy while furious battle rages all around scene in the game. You know why? Because the mobs in your game WON'T FRELLING LET US!!!

    You know something else? This game isn't a historical recreation, either. In those, you have ENTIRE RANKS OF ARCHERS who can fire IN VOLLEYS at SIMILAR RANKS OF CHARGING OPPONENTS. Archers aren't generally wasted on small skirmish-level combats because they're far too difficult to train up in the first place.

    So quit trying to make us recreate scenes we can never do in-game. It just ticks us off and gets you yelled at. Except by Raithe. He lstill loves you. Except he doesn't, since he hasn't played in months. Only he has, since he tells us what the current party compositions are like, but won't prove it. But he can, really... But he won't because we're not cool enough.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltarrin View Post
    Hey Turbine? Guys? This game is not a movie. We will never be able to replicate Hawkeye standing there on some building and playing death turret or Robin Hood doing the epic aiming at the bad guy while furious battle rages all around scene in the game. You know why? Because the mobs in your game WON'T FRELLING LET US!!!

    You know something else? This game isn't a historical recreation, either. In those, you have ENTIRE RANKS OF ARCHERS who can fire IN VOLLEYS at SIMILAR RANKS OF CHARGING OPPONENTS. Archers aren't generally wasted on small skirmish-level combats because they're far too difficult to train up in the first place.

    So quit trying to make us recreate scenes we can never do in-game. It just ticks us off and gets you yelled at. Except by Raithe. He lstill loves you. Except he doesn't, since he hasn't played in months. Only he has, since he tells us what the current party compositions are like, but won't prove it. But he can, really... But he won't because we're not cool enough.
    Balance. You forgot Balance, Raithe uses that word. A lot.

  6. #46
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltarrin View Post
    Raithe, there is a saying... Extraordinary claims requires extraordinary evidence. You've provided your word and little else. T

    Go back and read the last twenty or so of his posts and you'll quickly be able to determine how much credence to give to his posts, evidence or no evidence.

  7. #47
    Community Member ZeebaNeighba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    It conflicts with Improved Precise Shot
    Not always, since it got "fixed", /wink wink

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Go back and read the last twenty or so of his posts and you'll quickly be able to determine how much credence to give to his posts, evidence or no evidence.
    Oh, I read every single post he made! I'm just giving him a chance to respond. Basic rules of debate here.

  9. #49
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    I could get this change, maybe, if it was bundled with the EP release to live. You lose your AF mobility, but you gain whole new suites of ranged abilities. I think there's some CC skills in the new AA tree that might allow you to have a more immobile playstyle...and from my limited play, it doesnt look like slight movement wipes all your stacks entirely, just causes them to "tick down" faster, though that might still not be "WA(fully)I".

    I'd be fine with AF "as described" being more suited for a CC-oriented archer, pin or slow enemies, fall back, and pepper them with a couple volleys, rinse and repeat. AF would help to make up for the decrease in DPS you get from specializing in CC.

    However, I dont know why Turbine is apparently dead-set on rolling out all the nerfs associated with EP changes (ie reducing spellpower crit) months before we're going to get the buffs that are designed to counteract those nerfs (ie 5% automatic base crit for all caster classes)

  10. #50
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    I could get this change, maybe, if it was bundled with the EP release to live. You lose your AF mobility, but you gain whole new suites of ranged abilities. I think there's some CC skills in the new AA tree that might allow you to have a more immobile playstyle...and from my limited play, it doesnt look like slight movement wipes all your stacks entirely, just causes them to "tick down" faster, though that might still not be "WA(fully)I".

    I'd be fine with AF "as described" being more suited for a CC-oriented archer, pin or slow enemies, fall back, and pepper them with a couple volleys, rinse and repeat. AF would help to make up for the decrease in DPS you get from specializing in CC.

    However, I dont know why Turbine is apparently dead-set on rolling out all the nerfs associated with EP changes (ie reducing spellpower crit) months before we're going to get the buffs that are designed to counteract those nerfs (ie 5% automatic base crit for all caster classes)
    Unfortunately, a CC-oriented archer is still inherently better in IPS stance. Hitting 2+ enemies in one cooldown of Whistler or Pin is much better than only hitting one, and after enemies are CCed with IPS, it becomes trivial to multiply your damage by hitting all of the CCed enemies at once.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltarrin View Post
    Oh, I read every single post he made!
    Then he has already won.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Unfortunately, a CC-oriented archer is still inherently better in IPS stance. Hitting 2+ enemies in one cooldown of Whistler or Pin is much better than only hitting one, and after enemies are CCed with IPS, it becomes trivial to multiply your damage by hitting all of the CCed enemies at once.
    I've seen reports (cant verify it on my own chars) that IPS and AF are not exclusive anymore. Dont know if that part is WAI, of course, either...but if it is, and goes unfixed till the EP, then CC archers would be able to take advantage of the AF portion of it more than "run-and-gun" Deepwoods or Elemental AAs, for instance.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    I've seen reports (cant verify it on my own chars) that IPS and AF are not exclusive anymore. Dont know if that part is WAI, of course, either...but if it is, and goes unfixed till the EP, then CC archers would be able to take advantage of the AF portion of it more than "run-and-gun" Deepwoods or Elemental AAs, for instance.
    The two stacking is a clear bug...and as it's even affecting melee and has been posted about on the forum, it will likely be hotfixed. Therefore, for context of debate, I am assuming the abilities without the newest bug.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  14. #54
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    After some testing, it's hard to say what they meant to do with Archer's Focus. It's so ridiculously bugged right now.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalont View Post
    After some testing, it's hard to say what they meant to do with Archer's Focus. It's so ridiculously bugged right now.
    Well, based on the description and the fact it previously could not be active while Improved Precise Shot was also active (since they are both Ranged Combat stances), it is pretty clear they did not intend for both to be active at the same time. Similarly, it would be pretty clear that having both Power Attack and Precision active at the same time would not be WAI since they are both stances, as well (and you currently cannot have both active for exactly this reason).

  16. #56
    Community Member PestWulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micron View Post
    So I've played with this a bit on several chars now, I have a mechanic (ranged only), a pure ranger (both melee and ranged) and a fighter hybrid who uses repeaters situationally. Apart from the obvious bug with melee weapons, AF seems to more or less work as originally intended now.

    Obviously it has huge impact for people who were used to kite stuff around using monk speed, spring boost, leap of faith and whatnot while still taking advantage of the increased damage. It's useless for kiting and mostly useless for soloing now.

    In "regular" groups, where melees take the aggro and the archers pew pew things from the distance, it's use is reduced but it's still beneficial. I just did a CitW on my mechanic and I was able to build up a few stacks in many fights and I had the full 15 stack on a few times throughout the raid.

    While monkchers and other purely ranged builds are not going to be impressed, I personally believe that one feat that gave the Precise Shot ability AND basically a permanent +30% ranged damage was overpowered. It feels more reasonable now and it's still a useful feat, I won't consider dropping it on any of my characters that use ranged weapons, including the one that doesn't have room for IPS.
    As a person who mainly solos and duo's, I have to disagree that 30% single target damage is overpowered. Right now my ranged character keeps Archer's Focus on 100% of the time because I don't have Imp. Precise Shot yet. When I get that, I will be turning Arhcers Focus off even if it was like the bugged version. Archer's Focus is single target and I would have happily switched it on when fighting boss mobs or difficult reds or even when I need to take down casters quickly and forgo the pass through damage. However, my normal mode would likely always be to have pass through damage turned on.

    Now that Archer's Focus has been fixed, I don't benefit from it very much as I tend to move around in combat. Not Kite mind you, simply taking a few steps left or right to get better lines of sight or perhaps because I just fidget or want to change my point of view a little while firing, but regardless standing stock still and firing is a rarity for me. The game has trained me not to do that and I'm too old to be trained a different way, nor do I care to be.

    I found the 30% boosted damage useful but definitely not overpowered. of course I don't have any monk or ranger TR's at the moment and I won't be going above level 20 so no elite gear for me. Perhaps elite gear with ranged focus TR's helps to make the 30% overpowered?

  17. #57
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    Default Im glad they did it

    Personally, they should have doubled the bonus to staying still and reduced ranged dps just a bit. Kiting is silly, annoying and should result in huge penalties to dps, ac, speed. Nothing makes me feel annoyed than having quests held up by a low hp ranged who runs in circles even for trash.

    Nerf kiting and boost staying still and shooting like a man.

  18. #58
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltarrin View Post
    So quit trying to make us recreate scenes we can never do in-game.
    Archer's Focus is a damage boost. It has nothing to do with your attempts to recreate scenes from movies. You simply get more damage the longer you can stand in one spot and concentrate. It makes all kinds of sense in all kinds of ways. Your behavior does not have to change one iota, and you still get increased damage every 3 seconds you stay in one spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltarrin View Post
    It just ticks us off and gets you yelled at. Except by Raithe. He l still loves you.
    I have never in my life even liked Turbine. I have been trying to get them to make a decent game for a full 7 years. Part of that involves defending good ideas as well as moaning about bad ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltarrin View Post
    Except he doesn't, since he hasn't played in months.
    Oh, I played yesterday. And I played 2 months ago. And 12 months ago. And 72 months ago. What you don't get is that I've been playing for [B]7 years[B]. That's a lot of observations and a lot of wiffling back and forth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltarrin View Post
    Only he has, since he tells us what the current party compositions are like,...
    No, if you read my post I was mostly talking about party makeups over a very long time. Invaders was released a few months after launch of the original (subscriber) DDO. Also, I was talking about MY game and how it works. I'm sorry, but it is your burden to prove that I'm lying about MY OWN experience. I don't really know how to prove what my own experience is other than to just tell you what it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltarrin View Post
    ...but won't prove it. But he can, really...
    I am not looking for proof. I know what my experience is. If YOU are seeking proof then I would suggest investigating login statistics. A certain website (I don't remember the name, I clicked the link in a forum discussion) is cataloging logins and reports usage. When I went there, it showed that melee are very popular at low levels but become increasingly less popular at high levels. This suggests to me that statistics show that MY EXPERIENCE is similar to that of others. You could also put up an LFM for challenges and compare the statistics that you get with what I reported (the post is gone now - it was 80% caster, 15% ranged, and 5% melee). I was actually being a bit conservative on the skew.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    Archer's Focus is a damage boost. It has nothing to do with your attempts to recreate scenes from movies. You simply get more damage the longer you can stand in one spot and concentrate. It makes all kinds of sense in all kinds of ways. Your behavior does not have to change one iota, and you still get increased damage every 3 seconds you stay in one spot.



    I have never in my life even liked Turbine. I have been trying to get them to make a decent game for a full 7 years. Part of that involves defending good ideas as well as moaning about bad ones.



    Oh, I played yesterday. And I played 2 months ago. And 12 months ago. And 72 months ago. What you don't get is that I've been playing for [B]7 years[B]. That's a lot of observations and a lot of wiffling back and forth.



    No, if you read my post I was mostly talking about party makeups over a very long time. Invaders was released a few months after launch of the original (subscriber) DDO. Also, I was talking about MY game and how it works. I'm sorry, but it is your burden to prove that I'm lying about MY OWN experience. I don't really know how to prove what my own experience is other than to just tell you what it is.



    I am not looking for proof. I know what my experience is. If YOU are seeking proof then I would suggest investigating login statistics. A certain website (I don't remember the name, I clicked the link in a forum discussion) is cataloging logins and reports usage. When I went there, it showed that melee are very popular at low levels but become increasingly less popular at high levels. This suggests to me that statistics show that MY EXPERIENCE is similar to that of others. You could also put up an LFM for challenges and compare the statistics that you get with what I reported (the post is gone now - it was 80% caster, 15% ranged, and 5% melee). I was actually being a bit conservative on the skew.
    Yes, Raithe, a "Certain Website" whose name you don't recall that's listed on a post that's conveniently gone now backs up your assertions. But oddly enough, everyone else here on the forums... Doesn't. I guess we just don't play enough, right? I mean, you can remember the EXACT 80/15/5 breakdown they gave, but not their name? Really? And they really gave nice pretty numbers like that, not 83/13/4? Or is that just your failing memory again? If your memory is really that poor, how can we know this phantom website even exists and isn't something your subconscious came up with to bolster your own claims?

  20. #60
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltarrin View Post
    I mean, you can remember the EXACT 80/15/5 breakdown they gave
    No, I can't. As I said, I was being conservative. It's somewhat worse than the numbers I gave. And you should be a lobbyist. You are very good at false comprehension of things you don't desire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltarrin View Post
    , but not their name?...
    You are making a complete fool of yourself at this point. Most everyone reading this knows exactly what I'm talking about, you are the only exception.

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