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  1. #41
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Spell critical chance and spell critical damage changes to text and functionality (which are not the same) are not intended and we are working on fixing them.
    Unintential "changes to text" usually involve an invalid pointer and a bunch of gibberish, not perfectly good english.

    Your attempts to keep your existing customers (actually just the forumites who aren't going anywhere anytime soon anyway) from freaking out are probably turning away a bunch of would-be customers lurking to see if something is going to be done to make group play with 3 casters in the party something more than a completely annoying zerg to see who can press hotkeys faster.

  2. #42
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    Unintential "changes to text" usually involve an invalid pointer and a bunch of gibberish, not perfectly good english.

    Your attempts to keep your existing customers (actually just the forumites who aren't going anywhere anytime soon anyway) from freaking out are probably turning away a bunch of would-be customers lurking to see if something is going to be done to make group play with 3 casters in the party something more than a completely annoying zerg to see who can press hotkeys faster.
    So you speak for would-be customers now? Your posts are getting more and more ludicrous.

  3. #43
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    So you speak for would-be customers now? Your posts are getting more and more ludicrous.
    I speak for myself, and I currently have no plans to buy the upcoming expansion. Or pay DDO another red cent.

    I AM myself, and I am here to speak for him, yep. What was the point of your post again?

  4. #44
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    I speak for myself, and I currently have no plans to buy the upcoming expansion. Or pay DDO another red cent.

    I AM myself, and I am here to speak for him, yep. What was the point of your post again?
    LOL. At least you finally admit that you speak for yourself only and not for a hypothetical "bunch of would-be customers".

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    I speak for myself, and I currently have no plans to buy the upcoming expansion. Or pay DDO another red cent.

    I AM myself, and I am here to speak for him, yep. What was the point of your post again?
    The point was to giggle at your presumptuousness in chastising Vargouille for allegedly driving away would-be players by listening to existing ones.

  6. #46
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    LOL. At least you finally admit that you speak for yourself only and not for a hypothetical "bunch of would-be customers".
    The use of the word probably is pretty evident in my post. Nowhere did I say I was speaking for any particular quantity of people. It would be extremely naive to believe that I am the only one who shares my point of view on this matter, especially given prior posts in this very thread written by people who are not myself.

    So this issue is entirely an abstract concept, an idea, that cannot be quantified without a great deal of work.

    Welcome to the forums. You might choose to participate and contribute your own set of concepts instead of simply harassing people who have opposing viewpoints. I believe your actions are against forum guidelines (yet strangely I'm the one usually getting censored...)

  7. #47
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    The use of the word probably is pretty evident in my post. Nowhere did I say I was speaking for any particular quantity of people. It would be extremely naive to believe that I am the only one who shares my point of view on this matter, especially given prior posts in this very thread written by people who are not myself.

    So this issue is entirely an abstract concept, an idea, that cannot be quantified without a great deal of work.

    Welcome to the forums. You might choose to participate and contribute your own set of concepts instead of simply harassing people who have opposing viewpoints. I believe your actions are against forum guidelines (yet strangely I'm the one usually getting censored...)
    LOL. You are hilarious. I'm "harrassing" you? LOL. Feel free to report me then (although the fact you're the one "usually getting censored" might be a clue for you).

    There is really nothing worth discussing with you. All you're doing is trying to argue that the bugs that Turbine admits are completely unintentional and being investigated are better not fixed. That stance argues against itself. Even if Turbine wanted to nerf casters and bring about the "balance" you so crave, just about anyone can understand that doing it unintentionally or underhandedly ("ninja nerf style") is about the worst way to do it.

  8. #48
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonfreon View Post
    All you're doing is trying to argue that the bugs that Turbine admits are completely unintentional and being investigated are better not fixed.
    Yes, I do have a hard time believing that text getting changed to "This enhancement is obsolete" was completely unintentional. That was the primary point.

    As for it not needing fixed, that goes without saying. I'd like to know what has been said that makes you think it will be hotfixed before the explansion arrives which may change all the rules anyway. And no, I don't care if they hotfix it. What I DO care about is them failing to understand that the few customers they have left are insignificant compared with the hoards of people that won't ever play DDO again because they were completely shut-out during a group play session.

    It really has nothing to do with the bug itself. It's about getting people to understand that changes need to occur for any degree of success to be realized. They also aren't doing themselves any favors if their actions lower the number of preorders they sell. I'd love to hear how you think Vargouille's comments are increasing their chances in that arena.

  9. #49
    Community Member eonfreon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    Yes, I do have a hard time believing that text getting changed to "This enhancement is obsolete" was completely unintentional. That was the primary point.
    It was unintentional because the enhancement is not obsolete yet. It still exists and can be taken. The text should be changed to reflect that, not kept as a left-over from alpha playtesting. It is unprofessional to have the text remain as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    As for it not needing fixed, that goes without saying. I'd like to know what has been said that makes you think it will be hotfixed before the explansion arrives which may change all the rules anyway. And no, I don't care if they hotfix it. What I DO care about is them failing to understand that the few customers they have left are insignificant compared with the hoards of people that won't ever play DDO again because they were completely shut-out during a group play session.
    What doesn't need to be fixed; the text or the fact that Spell Crit chances have gone down? They've said that the spell crits is an error. What we have is one part of the possible enhancement pass in without the corresponding other part. The enhancements are supposed to be smaller increases to spell crit, however every caster is supposed to have a higher base chance to begin with.

    It is completely unprofessional to allow a part of the code to seep through without the corresponding code that creates the whole picture.

    They've admitted that they screwed up and that they don't want it to remain in effect until the expansion. There is no need to create an accidental nerf that wasn't going to happen in the first place, as far as arcane casters are concerned. As far as Clerics losing their Crit line, well the enhancements are supposed to still be in Alpha or Beta. There's a chance they could still put it in in some form, like people have asked for during the feedback stage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    It really has nothing to do with the bug itself. It's about getting people to understand that changes need to occur for any degree of success to be realized. They also aren't doing themselves any favors if their actions lower the number of preorders they sell. I'd love to hear how you think Vargouille's comments are increasing their chances in that arena.
    Well, I suppose that's your opinion about what needs "to occur" so I won't bother arguing about that or the "hordes of people" just waiting for the game to be balanced to your satisfaction.

    As far as Vargouille's comments; they show that Turbine is at least aware of the bugs and unintended changes that seeped through. It looks far more professional to show that they are aware and are trying to investigate issues so that customer's concerns can be evaluated, rather than just say "deal with it".

    Besides, according to Turbine's devs the Enhancement Pass is not set in stone yet. We just moved out of "alpha stage". And they've said we would have a look at the Beta stage before anything went Live. It may be true that nothing will change between Alpha, Beta, and Live. But we can hope that Turbine will keep some of their promises and evaluate some of their decisions based on feedback from the players. Only time will tell of course. I don't truly believe much will change based on feedback, but anything's possible.

    In any case I truly doubt there are "hordes of people that won't ever play DDO again because they were completely shut-out during a group play session". That's just speculation on your part and complete hyperbole.

  10. #50
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    Yes, I do have a hard time believing that text getting changed to "This enhancement is obsolete" was completely unintentional. That was the primary point.

    As for it not needing fixed, that goes without saying. I'd like to know what has been said that makes you think it will be hotfixed before the explansion arrives which may change all the rules anyway. And no, I don't care if they hotfix it. What I DO care about is them failing to understand that the few customers they have left are insignificant compared with the hoards of people that won't ever play DDO again because they were completely shut-out during a group play session.
    lol, hilarious.

    Existing customers have shown that they're willing to spend gobs of money on boxes and other p2w consumables.

    Any proof for this so called "hoards of people" [sic] that would otherwise play if only the devs listened to you? Yep you are right, you don't presume to speak for them, even though apparently you know everything about their motives :roll:

    But anyway, please continue as your trolling has become very amusing to us.
    Last edited by AtomicMew; 05-24-2013 at 08:42 PM.

  11. #51
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Existing customers have shown that they're willing to spend gobs of money on boxes and other p2w consumables.
    Yes, I agree. That is the part of the equation that is a complete unknown to me. I'll admit, if the pay-to-winners are spending enough money that Turbine can ignore everyone else, then they are probably set and couldn't care less about the ideas I'm presenting here. (They probably couldn't care less anyway, but the financial security might make me less annoying, maybe.)

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Any proof for this so called "hoards of people" [sic] that would otherwise play...
    This is where I'm not so in-the-dark. It's called gameplay experience. Years of it. There is no doubt in my mind that there are FAR less people playing currently than were playing shortly after the MotU expansion. Where did they all go, and why?

    Obviously some left simply because a more attractive product to them was introduced. Others left because they got bored. These things can be said without requiring an exit survey because they are standard issues seen in all sorts of commercial activity. The name they give it as it applies to MMOs is "churn."

    Which is exactly the same type of situation that I addressed in my last post. While I have no real idea if any of them are debating on whether or not to buy the expansion pack, a few years of watching people get skunked in PUG after PUG after PUG leaves little doubt in my mind why many people have left. It's just common sense and judgement. It's not happening personally to me, I'm not leaving because other people are skunking me. It's just the simplest, most raitional explanation for why I see a very stark depletion in active players.

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    ... if only the devs listened to you?
    I'm not really offering them solutions, I'm just trying to illuminate the problem. I really don't care if they leave spell crits in or if they take them out. That is all just a numbers game that I have no affinity for. It's the relationship to gameplay that matters - whether a group of casters can trivialize content and whether someone else running with those casters has any fun. It's funny that I'm not getting any arguments outlining why my concerns are a non-issue. Instead, I'm just getting attacked for daring to speak for others not myself.

    I'm not speaking for others. I'm speaking about my own perception and judgement. Like I said, this isn't a personal observation about myself. It's an observation about people I have grouped with in the past. It's like me saying... most of those people appear to be wearing blue. It may be inaccurate, they may be wearing purple in the absence of red light waves - but it is my perception, and I have a lot of reasons for believing what I believe...

  12. #52
    Community Member AtomicMew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    ****
    lol, still talking up a lot of BS with no real argument. Hordes of players left because casters are overpowered? How about offering even a modicum of evidence for this outrageous claim. And no, "It's called gameplay experience. Years of it" is not an argument. Show causation, don't just rehash facts everybody already knows and suddenly jump to a conclusion way out there in wonderland.

  13. #53
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    And no, "It's called gameplay experience. Years of it" is not an argument.
    You may be right. I would call it part of a premise. Here's an argument:

    1) During years of gameplay experience I have observed people getting skunked during group play sessions
    2) I have observed over time that many people do not like getting skunked
    Therefore, it is probable that some people may not like their gameplay sessions.

    Here's another:
    1) During years of gameplay experience I have often observed casters getting lots of kills while other classes get very few
    2) Getting skunked is a situation where some people get lots of kills and others get very few
    Therefore, it is probable that casters generate situations where people are getting skunked.

    And the arguments proceed from there towards "People are probably leaving because they are getting skunked by casters." If you are interested, its called inductive reasoning: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    Show causation, don't just rehash facts everybody already knows and suddenly jump to a conclusion way out there in wonderland.
    I'm not going to list the entire sequence and mass of arguments that fill my head concerning this subject. You should be able to fill in the blanks. If you can't, I'm afraid that's your problem. If Turbine can't, well then it may be my problem... but it's definitely a much bigger one for them.
    Last edited by Raithe; 05-24-2013 at 10:46 PM.

  14. #54
    Community Member MarcusCleardawn's Avatar
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    Default Raithe I see your axe and raise you a grind stone

    I'm still waiting on my:

    1. Completely overpowered ranged ranger build and my
    2. Infinite SP sorc build.

    In any event, I think it's clear that you've made your point to the extent that you are willing and/or able to make it.

    To Turbine:
    Thanks for acknowledging the issue and trying to solve it. Until then, I think I'll just use the other character slots I have.

    Peace

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Finally more balance between casters and melee
    Furyshot.

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    Tree.
    Walchek @ Ghallanda

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicMew View Post
    lol, still talking up a lot of BS with no real argument. Hordes of players left because casters are overpowered? How about offering even a modicum of evidence for this outrageous claim. And no, "It's called gameplay experience. Years of it" is not an argument. Show causation, don't just rehash facts everybody already knows and suddenly jump to a conclusion way out there in wonderland.
    Come now Mew.

    He's suggesting that X class needs a nerf instead of Y class needs a boost. Ergo he can only ever think of himself anyway and you're on a hiding to nothing here.
    Walchek @ Ghallanda

  17. #57
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    Snip*
    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    1) During years of gameplay experience I have often observed casters getting lots of kills while other classes get very few
    2) Getting skunked is a situation where some people get lots of kills and others get very few
    Therefore, it is probable that casters generate situations where people are getting skunked.
    Hello, and welcome to Dungeons and Dragons...

    But I think you may have been looking for WoW or Neverwinter.

  18. #58
    Community Member bartharok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    You may be right. I would call it part of a premise. Here's an argument:

    1) During years of gameplay experience I have observed people getting skunked during group play sessions
    2) I have observed over time that many people do not like getting skunked
    Therefore, it is probable that some people may not like their gameplay sessions.

    Here's another:
    1) During years of gameplay experience I have often observed casters getting lots of kills while other classes get very few
    2) Getting skunked is a situation where some people get lots of kills and others get very few
    Therefore, it is probable that casters generate situations where people are getting skunked.
    If getting a lot of kills is what makes you play the game, you probably should stick to soloing, that way you get all the kills. If you wish to party you shouldnt focus on the amount of kills someone gets, that will only detract from the experience.
    Dystopia = utopia achieved

  19. #59
    Community Member Antheal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusCleardawn View Post
    I'm still waiting on my:

    2. Infinite SP sorc build.
    It's called the DDO Store.
    If your "Known Issues" list needs a freaking scroll bar, then one of you needs to go.

  20. #60
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    Default Re:

    Honestly i think you all need to look closer at the facts. yes teh crit lines may be down, BUT if you pair classes well enough or actually gear oyur toon correctly you wont have that problem. i agree with those others in the fact that CASTERS ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE SOLO TOONS! if you build it correctly it MIGHT work. however spellcasters are supposed to be in the back casting from afar if you get too much aggro it wont matter what your stats are you are still going to be dead.

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