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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by khremlajn View Post
    We, bards, are immune to your petty nerfs. Our numbers are so small to nottice(i mean both number of bards and the number of hp healed)

    Since im already posting Ill add something more.

    It has been noted by some people in this threat that sorcerers should get earthquake. But bards deserve it more. So this is it:
    Give bards enchantment dc earthquake to boost this gimp class a little.

    I can even call it thematic by adding this:
    -it can be illusion... you change people minds to believe that ground is shaking.
    -we can use awesome and loved... thf bard weapon that everyone use in raids: the guitar in amrath. Using it we can smash it on the ground like a true guitar hero and cause earthquake with interesting tune in background. Item can be destroyed by this process, but it would be so cool...
    There is a PnP spell called nightmare terrain in the complete mage on the bard spell list that is similar. It's also a lot lower level spell than earthquake and in the shadow subset of illusion spells. I'll rerequest it again hear and /sign.
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    a powerful ally able to play in any role that the group needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zonbLF-NMZg

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    He is talking about Spell power, not spell damage.

    Whoever thinks that his Spell power is lowered should read the first few lines of THIS EXACT THREAD: IT IS JUST A DISPLAY BUG.


    THE SPELL POWER LOSS IN YOUR CHARACTER SHEET IS JUST A DISPLAY BUG.


    This is the 10th times that we repeat it.
    I know. Read my post please instead of just one sentence and spamming a response. I even agreed with the dev that it is NOT a spell power issue in the post you quoted. I just wanted to verify that this does not mean they consider the issue closed. I have also posted numerous times about how the display bug's change in spellpower couldn't explain the difference in damage.

  3. #103
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    I know. Read my post please instead of just one sentence and spamming a response. I even agreed with the dev that it is NOT a spell power issue in the post you quoted. I just wanted to verify that this does not mean they consider the issue closed. I have also posted numerous times about how the display bug's change in spellpower couldn't explain the difference in damage.
    He said a few replies above that they are continue looking into it. What else do you want to verify? Kookie already stated that they know Spell power is just a display bug, I guess it passed to info to Vargouille as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    He said a few replies above that they are continue looking into it. What else do you want to verify? Kookie already stated that they know Spell power is just a display bug, I guess it passed to info to Vargouille as well.
    The post above that one where he said they'll continue to look into I had missed, hence my question at the time. This why we need the old dev tracker backer. The current work around is much harder to use.

  5. #105

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    Wait until the final answer is, "We have determined that spell criticals were not stacking correctly and a bug was corrected to resolve the error. This is now WAI. We are still investigating CL/MCL..."

    (just kidding)
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
    a powerful ally able to play in any role that the group needs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zonbLF-NMZg

  6. #106
    Community Member Viconiax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    This game's entire playerbase is too small to notice, and my bard is one of my most powerful characters. He needs nerfed, bigtime.
    Please speak only for your own bard, and if you'd like some help I can tell you that I am in no way interested in telling you how to trivialize this game to the point of complete boredom.



    My cleric is my necromancy-focused character and can drop mobs left and right in epic elite Faerun. Gianthold is full of high-fort enemies, so naturally you resort to CC as a surrogate (I use heightened cometfall on my cleric - it works fine). As for being a hagebot and cc-bot, you seem to have missed the changes put in during the MotU expansion. You can choose to be a Shiradi pew-power (currently deemed one of the BEST ways to handle EE Gianthold), or you can use the mass damage abilities of Draconic Incarnation at key intervals, or you can attempt defensive and DC measures with Magister. MotU also made it pretty feasible to just break out a good DPS weapon and contribute small amounts of damage while your CC keeps things in check.

    Don't mistake your inability to adapt to change as a failure of the game design. There's already plenty of blame there.
    Lol, by seeing the "I", "my" message we already know how selfishness a person is. All you want is want to dictate the game to play by "your" choices. This nerf to spellcasters going to affects every single casters in this game, and guess what? Most of them not even visited the forums. So they probably end up quitting if turbine doesn't fix this soon. JFK once said "don't ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". In your case this is, "what can my country do for me while i dont do anything fir my country." <-- now use this sentence for the game. Advocating nerf just make new players not coming to the game and make old playes leave the game. Mass damage abilities of DI not going to do anything great with this broken system. (Yes I know this is a display bug but spell critical chances is broken, a 4th life cleric friend of mine can't even get his spell to crit now). Oh and tyvm for a good laugh at Otto + web bot. Half the amount of lfm in Argo have seem to disappeared already because of this.
    And to inability to adapt, should every single one of us roll into a cookie-cutter build now? (Otto-web bot for your case...)

    We have been adapt to this game for years now, but there is no way we can adapt to this change if it is WAI because this is a MAJOR nerf to casters.

    And check out your cleric prayer of incredible life description: it basically said obsolete enhancement that doesn't do anything.

  7. #107
    Community Member Beethoven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    This is a bit vague. Spell damage is obviously not correct.
    I think what he is asking is for people to quantify what they mean by "obviously not correct". Stuff along the lines: based on your toons stats what damage should you be seeing and what are you actually seeing. People are saying a Lightning Bolt cast with ~280 Spellpower (500 with Empower and Maximize) shouldn't be doing only 300 damage. However, if you take base damage at cap (~40 damage) and multiply it with 500% Spellpower, 240 is the result.

    Best explanation I can come up with is that Spellpower calculations in regards to Empower and Maximize have changed and now all Spellpower is added together before it is applied while before the toon's spellpower (from gear, destinies and enhancements) were used to calculate damage and then metas were applies.

    I've only used Lightning Bolt on my Air Savant and Wizza's screenshots to test out that theory and came to following result:

    Old
    ===


    My Air Savant has 259 Electric Spellpower in Shiradi.
    50.3 damage + 259 Spellpower = 180.5 damage
    180.5 damage + 225 Spellpower from Empower and Maximize = 406 damage


    Wizza (according to his screenies) had 283 Spellpower
    50.3 damage + 283 Spellpower (192.6 damage) + 225 Spellpower (Empower + Maximize) = 626 (note: if he roughly rolled 44 damage base his result would be about 552)

    Expressed differently, /if/ my assumption is true, the old formula was: <Base Damage> + <Toon's Spellpower> + <Active Metamgic> = Final Damage

    New:
    ====


    My Air Savant
    50.3 damage + 484 Spellpower (total Spellpower including Meta's) = 293.7 damage (vs 406 average before)

    Wizza's Screenshots
    50.3 damage + 508 Spellpower = 305.8 (his screenshot shows 312 damage now vs 552 before).

    Expressed differently again, new formula: <Base Damage> + (<Toon's Spellpower> + <Active Metamagic>) = Final Damage. Now, these calculations may not be entirely accurate but the closest I could get with the numbers at hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by GermanicusMaximus View Post
    This is a thread about a valid problem affecting a vast range of toons in this game, and all you seem capable of is trolling in your usual manner.
    You doing nothing but trolling that guy (after apparently following him around for weeks) is a positive contribution to the problem at hand how again? The only remarkable contribution I seen from you is your admitting that your work ethics are no different than your forum ethics: let everyone else do the work while you "systematically take notes" just so you then can throw them under the boss and take credit for their work.

    It's not that your criticize that bothers, it's that you criticize others for not solving your problems for you while yourself you don't bring anything useful to the discussion either.
    Last edited by Beethoven; 05-23-2013 at 02:31 PM.
    Characters on Sarlona: Ungnad (Morninglord, Wizard 17 / Favored Soul 2 / Fighter 1) -- Baerktghar (Dwarf, Paladin 18 / Fighter 2) -- Simulacruhm (Bladeforged, Artificer 16 / Paladin 3 / Wizard 1)

    No matter what side of the argument you are on, you always find people on your side that you wish were on the other.
    -- Jascha Heifetz

  8. #108
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post



    You doing nothing but trolling that guy (after apparently following him around for weeks) is a positive contribution to the problem at hand how again? The only remarkable contribution I seen from you is your admitting that your work ethics are no different than your forum ethics: let everyone else do the work while you "systematically take notes" just so you then can throw them under the boss and take credit for their work.

    It's not that your criticize that bothers, it's that you criticize others for not solving your problems for you while yourself you don't bring anything useful to the discussion either.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  9. #109
    Community Member Viconiax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    Lol.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    You doing nothing but trolling that guy (after apparently following him around for weeks) is a positive contribution to the problem at hand how again? The only remarkable contribution I seen from you is your admitting that your work ethics are no different than your forum ethics: let everyone else do the work while you "systematically take notes" just so you then can throw them under the boss and take credit for their work.

    It's not that your criticize that bothers, it's that you criticize others for not solving your problems for you while yourself you don't bring anything useful to the discussion either.
    It is most amusing that you claim to know so much about my work ethics. My work does seem to fascinate you for some reason. As I recall (and I do have a fairly good memory), in the past you have told me that I am not a professional software engineer after I mentioned that I am in a conversation, and you recently claimed knowledge of how successful my consulting firm is, to the point that you believed that you had a better grasp of the subject than I did.

    In general, I would have to admit that you are pretty impressive, if in fact you actually knew as much as you thought you knew. In light of how little you actually do know on the subjects that I have noted, in spite of your claims to the contrary, it does lead a reasonable person to wonder what factors are at play which would lead to such a substantial disconnect between your perception of yourself vs actual reality. That topic, however, is well outside of my professional expertise, and I will let you find someone in a suitable field to help you address that question.

  11. #111
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    He is talking about Spell power, not spell damage.

    Whoever thinks that his Spell power is lowered should read the first few lines of THIS EXACT THREAD: IT IS JUST A DISPLAY BUG.


    THE SPELL POWER LOSS IN YOUR CHARACTER SHEET IS JUST A DISPLAY BUG.


    This is the 10th times that we repeat it.

    In the dev's own words: "as far as we can tell." He / she / they said that at least twice.

    Not to be picky or trollish, bit if they are not talking in absolutes on the subject, I wouldn't either.

  12. #112
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    In the dev's own words: "as far as we can tell." He / she / they said that at least twice.

    Not to be picky or trollish, bit if they are not talking in absolutes on the subject, I wouldn't either.
    Read again the OP, look at the recap.

    Now let me copy it here:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5005940

    Quote Originally Posted by KookieKobold View Post
    Just a quick update:

    This particular issue is in fact just a Display issue.

    The spellpower display on the character sheet is only showing the bonuses to individual spellpower amounts (instead of all spellpower bonuses as it should be)

    The bonuses are still being applied as normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  13. #113
    Community Member dredre9987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Read again the OP, look at the recap.

    Now let me copy it here:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5005940

    Ok so as I said pages back it does seem to be a MCL issue
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitesco View Post
    Oh and honestly, you are all carrying portal beaters on your casters? What on earth are you using it on often enough to clog up your bag with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    Portals.

  14. #114
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Read again the OP, look at the recap.

    Now let me copy it here:

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5005940
    Again, not trying to be a jerk (though I can actually be good at it):

    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As far as we can tell spellpower is unaffected except for the independent display bug, where universal spellpower is not displaying properly on the character sheet, but is otherwise functioning correctly. The existing live enhancements are also properly adding to spellpower as far as we can tell.

    If you have reason to believe spellpower since U18 is incorrect, other than the noted universal spellpower display issue, please submit a bug with details.

    We have other plans for addressing future enhancements and spellpower, which we don't believe are relevant to issues being seen with Update 18.
    I only say this because, depending on the code, stuff can be straightforward OR there's something someone didn't dig deep enough into, and someone somewhere mentioned that "well, you know, this could also be an issue with this class / method / property down in this blah blah blah, from the yadda yadda yadd assembly...

    The way code is written noeadays, simple things like values displayed on a screen are heavily abstracted, and there are often lots of layers that seperate business logic from what's being displayed on the screen.

    Just sayin'.

  15. #115
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    Best explanation I can come up with is that Spellpower calculations in regards to Empower and Maximize have changed and now all Spellpower is added together before it is applied while before the toon's spellpower (from gear, destinies and enhancements) were used to calculate damage and then metas were applies.
    This is not how it used to work, so it probably still isn't how its working in update 18.

    Empower simply adds 75 spellpower. Maximize adds 150 spellpower. It doesn't show up on the character sheet, but that is how it worked before. Other sources of spellpower always just stacked additively, there were no multiplications.

    I think people are right, that caster levels on spells are not being augmented as they used to be. Lightning bolt does amost twice as much damage at caster level 18 than it does at caster level 10. A forthcoming change might be that spells are ALWAYS limited by their maximum caster levels, and they may simply change the limits. This would allow spellsinger songs like Song of Arcane Might to have more impact.

  16. #116
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    Again, not trying to be a jerk (though I can actually be good at it):



    I only say this because, depending on the code, stuff can be straightforward OR there's something someone didn't dig deep enough into, and someone somewhere mentioned that "well, you know, this could also be an issue with this class / method / property down in this blah blah blah, from the yadda yadda yadd assembly...

    The way code is written noeadays, simple things like values displayed on a screen are heavily abstracted, and there are often lots of layers that seperate business logic from what's being displayed on the screen.

    Just sayin'.
    It was said by TWO Devs.
    It was tested by me.
    It was tested by another posted in that same thread.
    It was tested by 2 of my friends in game.

    As far as I can tell, that's pretty enough to demonstrate that Spell power not adding is just a display bug.

    Just sayin'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  17. #117
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    It was said by TWO Devs.
    That means nothing. Some of the worst people to test code is the people who developed it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    It was tested by me.
    Ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    It was tested by another posted in that same thread.
    Fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    It was tested by 2 of my friends in game.
    Are they on the Turbine payroll?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    As far as I can tell, that's pretty enough to demonstrate that Spell power not adding is just a display bug.

    Just sayin'.
    How do we know you're not a Turbine plant, sent in to somehow placate us all? or worse yet: an artificial avatar for our forthcoming robot overlords sent in to distract us from the forthcoming invaion of planet earth?

    Hummm...?

  18. #118
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsquishwizzy View Post
    That means nothing. Some of the worst people to test code is the people who developed it.

    Ok.

    Fine.

    Are they on the Turbine payroll?

    How do we know you're not a Turbine plant, sent in to somehow placate us all? or worse yet: an artificial avatar for our forthcoming robot overlords sent in to distract us from the forthcoming invaion of planet earth?

    Hummm...?
    Unless you are going to provide with proofs that it is not just a display bug, I'm done replying to you on the matter
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  19. #119
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    Unless you are going to provide with proofs that it is not just a display bug, I'm done replying to you on the matter
    Send me the code.


    And a blood sample...robot...

  20. #120
    Community Member bsquishwizzy's Avatar
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    (yes, I am chain-yanking at this point.)

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