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  1. #81
    Community Member Aussir's Avatar
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    Default What is the part that NONE OF YOU IS GETTING?!

    This is PART OF THE ENHANCEMENT PASS that leaked onto live. Why the f**k are you ignoring those who were in Lammania and are telling you so? Why do you think we were complaining like mad at the preview?

    What is the part that you people do NOT GET that the enhancement pass is going to bring a MASSIVE NERF across the board and it will hit casters quite a bit and this slipped because it was a leftover from the pass preview?

    What is the part that you are not getting that your crits right now are enhancement pass crits, your spell power is enhancement pass power and so on?

    I know it, I was there, I tested it... me and others that have been telling you what this is and you people IGNORE!

    This is what is to come with the enhancement pass and it leaked onto live!
    DDO-Europe 2006/2010 - Aureon/Keeper

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  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    Bards are doing to be even more irrelevant than today
    We, bards, are immune to your petty nerfs. Our numbers are so small to nottice(i mean both number of bards and the number of hp healed)

    Since im already posting Ill add something more.

    It has been noted by some people in this threat that sorcerers should get earthquake. But bards deserve it more. So this is it:
    Give bards enchantment dc earthquake to boost this gimp class a little.

    I can even call it thematic by adding this:
    -it can be illusion... you change people minds to believe that ground is shaking.
    -we can use awesome and loved... thf bard weapon that everyone use in raids: the guitar in amrath. Using it we can smash it on the ground like a true guitar hero and cause earthquake with interesting tune in background. Item can be destroyed by this process, but it would be so cool...
    trixalai \o/ xirrantha \o/ trixilai //argonessen // Trolls Lair

  3. #83
    Community Member Forzah's Avatar
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    Be it accidental or not, a decrease in caster damage is fantastic for the balance of the game and something that should've been done a long time ago. Great job devs!

  4. #84
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Be it accidental or not, a decrease in caster damage is fantastic for the balance of the game and something that should've been done a long time ago. Great job devs!
    Love the non-sense troll posts Because halving the damage of every caster is fantastic for the balance! Let's go back to U9 but with WEB AND OTTOS!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forzah View Post
    Be it accidental or not, a decrease in caster damage is fantastic for the balance of the game and something that should've been done a long time ago. Great job devs!
    And Divines realy need a decrease in caster damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by khremlajn View Post
    It has been noted by some people in this threat that sorcerers should get earthquake. But bards deserve it more. So this is it:
    Give bards enchantment dc earthquake to boost this gimp class a little.
    Earthquake is a Cleric and Druid spell, so if any other class was to get Earthquake, it should be Cleric. Bards do need something though.

  6. #86
    Community Member shayyd's Avatar
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    Default Lost spellpower

    I have noticed that I have lost 80 spell power on my arty. If I take off my flawless blue with a +80 potency, I only lose 20 sp not 80. I noticed this with every spell power item I have. I do not know what exactly is causing this but without a doubt, it has happened. I had a force sp of 300, it is now 220. This is a pretty major bug and I hope it gets fixed ASAP.
    Khyber server. Raavynn , Fabrykator, Agryvor, Lotyss, Vyolator, Legionnayre, Kwychanng

  7. #87
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Well, it was a fun 3 years...

    Assuming this is WAI (perhaps, as had been said, it's part of the Enhancement pass that somehow leaked out), that'll be all for me. Given the utter silence from the devs on this, and the fact that it was reported in great detail on Lammania and utterly ignored, it can only be assumed that it's not going to change any time soon.

    Unless things change, this will be my last post. Thanks for a fun 3 years, DDO. It WAS fun, I loved the game, but I have no desire to play Clerics who can't do anything well except heal, nor casters who can do anything except be Hagebots and CCbots...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  8. #88
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shayyd View Post
    I have noticed that I have lost 80 spell power on my arty. If I take off my flawless blue with a +80 potency, I only lose 20 sp not 80. I noticed this with every spell power item I have. I do not know what exactly is causing this but without a doubt, it has happened. I had a force sp of 300, it is now 220. This is a pretty major bug and I hope it gets fixed ASAP.
    I wish people would read the OP before posting. The one you are describing is just a display bug.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

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  9. #89
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    This not intended, now or in the future.

    We continue to look into it.

  10. #90
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizza View Post
    I wish people would read the OP before posting. The one you are describing is just a display bug.
    Get a grip man, how do you expect people to jump on the hate and conspiracy bandwagon if they read?!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This not intended, now or in the future.

    We continue to look into it.
    Seeing how long it took you to put in a fix for 'pale masters unable to remove stat damage'

    I won't hold my breath.

    Can you email when you're done fixing casters?

    I have absolutely no interest in playing a melee, and I have absolutely no interest in playing a haste-bot, rage-bot, or any other bot; I will not serve.

    Stop trying to make casters into sub-standard hirelings.

  12. #92
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This not intended, now or in the future.

    We continue to look into it.
    Thanks. Many of us suspect that the problems lies in the MCL not applying at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

    *maybe
    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

  13. #93
    Community Member Aussir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This not intended, now or in the future.

    We continue to look into it.
    Right now on live, it's as if we don't have:
    - Spellcraft
    - Spell points x AP used
    - Crit enhancements (which disappear in the enhancement pass)
    - Spell Penetration (which disappears as well)

    And MCL is even more broken than it was in Lammania during the enhancement pass.

    In other words... this is so fubar-ed that it isn't funny anymore. My epic sorcerer lost around 60-70 spell power, doesn't crit, her spell pen went to hell and I might as well just go toast a level 1 kobold and even then, I don't know if I'll manage to kill it with the ridiculous damage she's doing. I think if I took up a sword, I would do more damage and that's saying something when she has a huge amount of 8 str...

    I remember talking to you about this on the devchats that were held in Lammania over the enhancement preview and how it was affecting spell power spell penetration and crits in major ways because of the changes to our skills and enhancements.

    You told us that it wasn't WAI because (in spell power's specific case) spell craft/heal/repair&CO are supposed to be an option, not a necessity and would be looked into since we shouldn't be losing any power without those skills. Alas, we were losing power in Lammania and now this "marvel" landed on live servers.

    Why? Because it was leftover code (which we were warned about) from the enhancement preview... there was even a maintenance because of it and it still stuck in there... and instead of removing it, you guys let it get to live.

    Well... now you see what happens when we don't take those skills and you see, nice and live, the results of the incredible nerf that you put on the enhancements and the MCL changes that seem to have got even more broken than they were in Lammania. If the devs needed any more proof that the skill/enhancement pass should be called "nerf pass" if it stays like this, they are truly blind.

    You see people's reaction to what the game is if you don't change that massive nerf you created with the enhancement pass. Want a piece of advice? Listen to us for once and change it.

    And see that you get to your server backups, drag out the code used pre-u18 for casters and make a hotfix for this mess.
    Last edited by Aussir; 05-23-2013 at 11:53 AM.
    DDO-Europe 2006/2010 - Aureon/Keeper

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  14. #94
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khremlajn View Post
    We, bards, are immune to your petty nerfs. Our numbers are so small to nottice...
    This game's entire playerbase is too small to notice, and my bard is one of my most powerful characters. He needs nerfed, bigtime.
    Please speak only for your own bard, and if you'd like some help I can tell you that I am in no way interested in telling you how to trivialize this game to the point of complete boredom.

    Quote Originally Posted by PNellesen View Post
    ...but I have no desire to play Clerics who can't do anything well except heal, nor casters who can do anything except be Hagebots and CCbots...
    My cleric is my necromancy-focused character and can drop mobs left and right in epic elite Faerun. Gianthold is full of high-fort enemies, so naturally you resort to CC as a surrogate (I use heightened cometfall on my cleric - it works fine). As for being a hagebot and cc-bot, you seem to have missed the changes put in during the MotU expansion. You can choose to be a Shiradi pew-power (currently deemed one of the BEST ways to handle EE Gianthold), or you can use the mass damage abilities of Draconic Incarnation at key intervals, or you can attempt defensive and DC measures with Magister. MotU also made it pretty feasible to just break out a good DPS weapon and contribute small amounts of damage while your CC keeps things in check.

    Don't mistake your inability to adapt to change as a failure of the game design. There's already plenty of blame there.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussir View Post
    I remember talking to you about this on the devchats that were held in Lammania over the enhancement preview and how it was affecting spell power and crits in major ways because of the changes to our skills and enhancements.

    You told us that it wasn't WAI because (in spell power's specific case) spell craft/heal/repair&CO are supposed to be an option, not a necessity and would be looked into since we shouldn't be losing any power without those skills. Alas, we were losing power in Lammania and now this "marvel" landed on live servers.

    Why? Because it was leftover code (which we were warned about) from the enhancement preview... there was even a maintenance because of it and it still stuck in there... and instead of removing it, you guys let it get to live.

    Well... now you see what happens when we don't take those skills and you see, nice and live, the results of the incredible nerf that you put on the enhancements and the MCL changes that seem to have got even more broken than they were in Lammania. If the devs needed any more proof that the skill/enhancement pass should be called "nerf pass" if it stays like this, they are truly blind.

    You see people's reaction to what the game is if you don't change that massive nerf you created with the enhancement pass. Want a piece of advice? Listen to us for once and change it.

    And see that you get to your server backups, drag out the code used pre-u18 for casters and make a hotfix for this mess.
    No, you are incorrect. This is not related to the skills. It is broken code from the Lam enhancement pass however. If it was just missing the skills, then the difference wouldn't be more then about half the base damage of a spell, but we are seeing a loss on the order of half of the final damage of the spell. Besides, we are correctly getting our spellpower from enhancements on live. It is gear and destinies that at least don't display right. Though I do agree that they should improve the spell power from enhancements form what we saw on the Alpha pass.

    There are at least 2 problems currently on live with spell damage:
    1) Max Caster Level bonuses do nothing at all.
    2) Items that improve criticals do nothing at all.

    I tested these on Lam by casting spells hundreds of times and recording the results. I then used the binomial distribution to compute the odds of my results occuring by chance and got a p-value on the order of 0.0001. A safe bet then that lore items and the like do nothing. (I admit, I haven't done through testing on live - so it possible we have a look-a-like bug, but reconstruct and magic missile support my theory).

    You can see that this is the effect by picking spells that have never worked with +MCL. For example, my magic missile does the same non-critical damage it always has, despite the alleged change in spellpower. Same with force missiles and reconstruct. Those are good spells to look at because of the minimal to no damage variation. They do, however, crit less often and for less damage, because lore items do nothing. If you look at spells like lightning bolt and chain lightning, which used to gain benefits, you'll notice a massive loss in power. That is because their base damage drops due to the loss of the +MCL. Take Lightning Bolt, in draconic, you could have been casting it an effective caster level 18 (10 base + 3 draconic + 2 ToD set + 3 savant), but now you only get MCL 10. So, the base damage goes form 90 to 50, on average - losing nearly half its power.

    For some examples, now when I use my lightning bolt SLA, I hit for 300 or just under. I used to hit in draconic from ~540 or so, and in Shiradi for ~450 or so (exactly what I would expect from my spellpower and MCL). A difference this large can't be due to just the change in spellpower listed on my character sheet. A loss of 80 or so sp would only knock around 70 off the damage. Instead, the base damage has fallen to 50, which gets me the 300 that I am seeing, assuming Kookie is right and the spellpower change is merely a display issue.

  16. #96
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    As far as we can tell spellpower is unaffected except for the independent display bug, where universal spellpower is not displaying properly on the character sheet, but is otherwise functioning correctly. The existing live enhancements are also properly adding to spellpower as far as we can tell.

    If you have reason to believe spellpower since U18 is incorrect, other than the noted universal spellpower display issue, please submit a bug with details.

    We have other plans for addressing future enhancements and spellpower, which we don't believe are relevant to issues being seen with Update 18.

  17. #97
    Community Member Aussir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    No, you are incorrect. This is not related to the skills. It is broken code from the Lam enhancement pass however. If it was just missing the skills, then the difference wouldn't be more then about half the base damage of a spell, but we are seeing a loss on the order of half of the final damage of the spell. Besides, we are correctly getting our spellpower from enhancements on live. It is gear and destinies that at least don't display right. Though I do agree that they should improve the spell power from enhancements form what we saw on the Alpha pass.

    There are at least 2 problems currently on live with spell damage:
    1) Max Caster Level bonuses do nothing at all.
    2) Items that improve criticals do nothing at all.

    I tested these on Lam by casting spells hundreds of times and recording the results. I then used the binomial distribution to compute the odds of my results occuring by chance and got a p-value on the order of 0.0001. A safe bet then that lore items and the like do nothing. (I admit, I haven't done through testing on live - so it possible we have a look-a-like bug, but reconstruct and magic missile support my theory).

    You can see that this is the effect by picking spells that have never worked with +MCL. For example, my magic missile does the same non-critical damage it always has, despite the alleged change in spellpower. Same with force missiles and reconstruct. Those are good spells to look at because of the minimal to no damage variation. They do, however, crit less often and for less damage, because lore items do nothing. If you look at spells like lightning bolt and chain lightning, which used to gain benefits, you'll notice a massive loss in power. That is because their base damage drops due to the loss of the +MCL. Take Lightning Bolt, in draconic, you could have been casting it an effective caster level 18 (10 base + 3 draconic + 2 ToD set + 3 savant), but now you only get MCL 10. So, the base damage goes form 90 to 50, on average - losing nearly half its power.

    For some examples, now when I use my lightning bolt SLA, I hit for 300 or just under. I used to hit in draconic from ~540 or so, and in Shiradi for ~450 or so (exactly what I would expect from my spellpower and MCL). A difference this large can't be due to just the change in spellpower listed on my character sheet. A loss of 80 or so sp would only knock around 70 off the damage. Instead, the base damage has fallen to 50, which gets me the 300 that I am seeing, assuming Kookie is right and the spellpower change is merely a display issue.
    See, this is why I went back and edited my post, most likely while you were typing. Because it was reading just like what you read into it.
    I'm a fire savant and I noticed the "nerf" on my firewalls and my ED spells (D.I.) that decided to do nothing. I also doubt the spell power is a bug because I took off my staff and my spell power dropped even more. If it were a visual bug, it wouldn't have dropped even more. Without my staff, I saw a drop of over 100 spell power.

    The problem here is the leftover, screwed code from the enhancement pass that landed here, part of it from the enhancements/skills and part from the changes they're going to make to caster items that somehow leaked here as well. Do remember the changes to the spell crits, those landed here as well. And if you remember, the MCL was screwed up in Lammania as well.

    In the end, it's a mess of screwed up code and needs to be hotfixed, pronto.
    DDO-Europe 2006/2010 - Aureon/Keeper

    I'm blunt as a rock and can seem aggressive because of it. Be aware of that when reading my posts.

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As far as we can tell spellpower is unaffected except for the independent display bug, where universal spellpower is not displaying properly on the character sheet, but is otherwise functioning correctly. The existing live enhancements are also properly adding to spellpower as far as we can tell.

    If you have reason to believe spellpower since U18 is incorrect, other than the noted universal spellpower display issue, please submit a bug with details.

    We have other plans for addressing future enhancements and spellpower, which we don't believe are relevant to issues being seen with Update 18.
    This is a bit vague. Spell damage is obviously not correct. Are you still looking into that?

    What I have seen leads me to believe that the issue is not spell power (so, I agree with you there), but Max Caster Levels and Lore items - just like it was on Lam. If you really need, and can't find my bug reports containing the information on Lam, I can go, pull a nice sample, do the statistics for you, and prove exactly what the issue is.

  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussir View Post
    See, this is why I went back and edited my post, most likely while you were typing. Because it was reading just like what you read into it.
    I'm a fire savant and I noticed the "nerf" on my firewalls and my ED spells (D.I.) that decided to do nothing. I also doubt the spell power is a bug because I took off my staff and my spell power dropped even more. If it were a visual bug, it wouldn't have dropped even more. Without my staff, I saw a drop of over 100 spell power.

    The problem here is the leftover, screwed code from the enhancement pass that landed here, part of it from the enhancements/skills and part from the changes they're going to make to caster items that somehow leaked here as well. Do remember the changes to the spell crits, those landed here as well. And if you remember, the MCL was screwed up in Lammania as well.

    In the end, it's a mess of screwed up code and needs to be hotfixed, pronto.
    Yes, I agree that it is the same code we saw on Lam for the enhancement pass. And what players are observing is the fact that lore items do nothing. Same with MCL. A bit concerned about Varg's post, but hopefully they are now looking at the correct problems. And yes, it should be hotfixed quickly.

  20. #100
    Community Member Wizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    This is a bit vague. Spell damage is obviously not correct. Are you still looking into that?

    What I have seen leads me to believe that the issue is not spell power (so, I agree with you there), but Max Caster Levels and Lore items - just like it was on Lam. If you really need, and can't find my bug reports containing the information on Lam, I can go, pull a nice sample, do the statistics for you, and prove exactly what the issue is.
    He is talking about Spell power, not spell damage.

    Whoever thinks that his Spell power is lowered should read the first few lines of THIS EXACT THREAD: IT IS JUST A DISPLAY BUG.


    THE SPELL POWER LOSS IN YOUR CHARACTER SHEET IS JUST A DISPLAY BUG.


    This is the 10th times that we repeat it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rys View Post
    Severlin and Severlin Online. PLAY FOR FREE* NOW!

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    Farwil, Chaos Gamblers - Argonessen.

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